103

Union Rich Pricks

by Whaleoil on December 2, 2011

A commenter on my post about the union stuffing up Christmas by shutting down the port said “Good on the union” and then launched into why the poor bastards need a break.

Cactus Kate meanwhile digs out the terms and conditions that these poor hard done by workers have to endure, including their pay schedule:

POAL has generous wage and benefit packages for staff under the Collective Agreement. For the year ended 30 June 2011:

  • o Average wage for a full time stevedore at POAL was $91,480
  • o Average wage for a part time stevedore at POAL was $65,518
  • o 53% of full time stevedores (123 individuals) earned over $80,000
  • o 28% (43 individuals) earned over $100,000 with the highest earner making $122,000

POAL provides:

  • Southern Cross medical insurance for the employee and family
  • Sick leave of up to 15 days per annum accumulating to 45 days over three years
  • Fully paid in house training (no student loans required) to become a lasher, straddle and crane driver
  • Five weeks annual leave for shift workers

Embedded inflexibilities and old-fashioned work practices mean that labour utilisation at POAL is approx. 65% compared to approx. 80% at Port of Tauranga:

  • POAL’s crane drivers and deck foremen work on average 5.33 hours for every 8 paid
  • Straddle drivers work an average 6 hours out of every 8 paid
  • One recent example: stevedores worked 2 hours on an overtime shift but were paid for the whole 8 hour shift.
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  • Sars

    WTF???? What are they complaining about? Holy shit, they would have people lining up round the corner if they ever advertised for staff!!!! I’d probably be one of them!

    My shock has now been replaced by anger. Why are they so ungrateful and why do they think they deserve to earn more than the national average wage and then complain about it not being enough? At the rate their going, they’ll all be locked out and POAL should have the right to hire replacement staff. 

  • Honcho

    Makes me wonder what im doing in my current job.

    As far as the protesting union members go, POA should sack the lot, that should take care of the unions themselves and their fat cat execs in one fell swoop, killing the dockers union culture, because looking back at history thats what it is, once and for all.

  • Kosh103

    It would seem old WO doesnt know what the key problem is. It isnt pay. Its non Union members getting Union benfits.

    The word is the Port have been playing a little dirty.

    • devlsadvocate

      So…different people doing the same job get the same benefits?

      Sounds positively filthy.

      • Kosh103

        If the non union members are getting things they never neg’d for, yes very dirty of the Ports and they are getting what they deserve.

      • Symgardiner

        There is nothing abnormal about this. Non-union teachers get the same conditions as union teachers.

      • GPT

        One assumes that if a non union member negotiates a better deal than the union members then that would be ok.

    • Sars

      What has the pay and conditions of non-union members got to do with union members? How is it any of their business? POAL can do whatever they like – imagine the uproar if individually negotiated contracts involved more favourable terms than those negotiated by the union?

      Sure, you can’t treat union employees any worse than non-union employees but you certainly don’t have to treat them better. What an self entitled, greedy pack of mongels they are to think that being in a union entitles them to better pay and conditions than anyone else. 

      GTFO!

      • Kosh103

        If NUM’s are getting benifits they never neg’d but because the union did, then that is wrong.

        If you cannot be arsed asking or thinking of the benifits UMs get, stiff shit for you.

      • Sars

        It won’t let me reply to Kosh directly but please, tell me how they can prove the NUM attributed benefits were negotiated by the Union? 

        I would wait until someone I worked with blabbed about the terms of their contract (which, undoubtedly, are supposed to stay confidential) and then I would go to management and negotiate the same deal for myself. Then I win double because I get the same terms and I also don’t have to pay Union fees. And I negotiated it for myself so they can’t really complain. 

      • Red

        Those individuals who have told the Union to go jump should be praised.  They are a pack of bullies and thugs, just like their offical Dave Phillips.

        Some of these individuals left the union because the Union increased their fees and they felt they we not getting any value for them.  Others left because of the racist attitudes of some of their local union executive, (who were subsequently sacked by POAL for racist ranting).

        The people at the Port are largely good people but lead by a few who are stuck in a time warp and believe “nothing wone without a fight” – especially their officals!

    • devlsadvocate

      (Reply to “If the non union members are getting things they never neg’d for, yes
      very dirty of the Ports and they are getting what they deserve.”)

      Negotiations set the standard for what is a fair arrangement between an employer and employees. Now that that standard is set, by definition it would be unfair to give anyone doing the same work worse conditions.

      Say that POAL went one further and gave every non-union member a bigger pay rise than union ones. Would you consider that fair to unionised employees?

      • Ben Ross

        Had mentioned something like that in the other union thread. To similar effect basically union and individual agreements will usually be similar (not the exact same and not vastly different)?

    • Peter Wilson

      Yes, but union members only get the better deal because of the agressive and intimidatory tactics. On that basis, presumably you don’t believe in gender pay equity issues either. After all, if you can negotiate the better deal, then good for you.

  • Anonymous

    Serious question Kosh…

    Why are they considered “Union Benefits”? I can understand how they come about through collective bargaining but why should you be discriminated for choosing not to be represented by the union?

    Surely an employer can offer whatever benefits it likes to their employees?

    • Kosh103

      If the bosses are giving Union benfits to non union members as a matter of right (ie, no talks, just handed over) then Go the Unions.

      If the indv’s have seperatly neg. for these rights, thats different.

      • Sars

        But how do they know the NUM didn’t just catch wind of the terms of the UM contracts and go and negotiate the same deal for themselves on an individual basis? If the union are too stupid to keep the terms of their conditions a secret from NUM then their the ones to blame, not POAL or the NUM’s. 

      • Symgardiner

        As I said above… non-union teachers get newly negotiated provisions when a new Collective Contract is signed. Its completely normal.

  • Sars

    Bear in mind that the DOL state minimum pay and condition requirements to be:
    1 Pay – $13 per hour [$13 * 40 hours per week * 52 weeks = $27,040]
    2 Holidays – Equivalent of four weeks per year
    3 Sick Leave – Minimum of 5 per year

    And these are just the really obvious ones - http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/minimumrights/index.asp

  • Kosh103

    @ Sars – If the NUMs were given the rights automaticly as opposed to having negotiated them, it is wrong and it is suspected that NUMs are getting Union member rights.

    The Port is playing dirty. Prob because they are anti Union. Even more reason for the union to stand strong and not let the port get away with it IF that is what is happening.

    • EX Navy Greg

      If they are all getting the same benefits, isn’t that a sign of a FAIR employer?

      • http://twitter.com/Jazr0d Jazr0d

        careful

        logic vs unions

        could be toy-throwing time

      • Ben Ross

        I thought it was?

      • Kosh103

        Not if the NUMs are getting them for no effort after the union has gone to bat for its members.

        It is clear the ports seem to be trying to drive a wedge between NUM and UM.

    • http://twitter.com/Jazr0d Jazr0d

      hey kosh, are you a member of a union perchance?

      • Anonymous

        He’d need to have a job first.

    • devlsadvocate

      So – are the point of union negotiations to screw as much out of an employer as possible, or to establish a fair arrangement for benefits gained for work done?

      If the former your point definitiely stands – if the latter, don’t you care about worker equality?

      • Kosh103

        The job of the union is to get as much for its members as it can.

    • Stuarts.Burgers

      To my understanding from listening to so Union Official Gum Banging on Nat Radio in fact the NUM are on a better deal a than Union Members, They get Redundancy  Cashed up in their Hourly Rate was one example given.
       I feel that NUM should always get more because of the cost to employers of having to deal with some of the dick head union officials out there does not accrue when dealing with NUM.
      What is the cost to POAL  for this Weekend, how many Union members are there  divide  these to figures and you start to see the cost per head that  the Union Membership is costing POAL. 

    • GPT

      The Union is having a cry because 7 employees of the Ports of Auckland have the temerity to not join the union.  I suspect you are quite right.  POA don’t like the union.  I don’t like the union.  It’s a bully boy organisation.

      • EX Navy Greg

        I thought it was 4 people , now that I know it is 7 people that makes a heap of difference to my opinion..I was 90% thinking unions are fucktards , now I am 100 %.

    • Bunswalla

      On what basis is it “wrong” ?  It’s a matter between management and staff what their terms and conditions are, and if you don’t think you’re getting a good deal then sack the useless fat, bloated nobodies who “negotiate” for you. They’re all off at Corporate Training Days or having meetings and do nothing anyway. What are you even in the union for anyway if you can’t even get a better deal than the non-unionistas?
      You’re complaining about the wrong people, you daft cunt.

      • Kosh103

        If NUMs are getting Union benifits without asking for them or fighting for them, it is dirty pool on the part of the port.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve just popped across to Trotter’s blog, and got a surprise – he is floating the idea of Labour cutting its ties with the unions!  Quite a surprise for a pinko like Trotter…..
    I actually hope that Labour keeps its union ties. For the right, they’re “the gift that keeps on giving”. 

    • EX Navy Greg

      I am working 18 hr days 6 days a week to get a new business up and running. If I nett1/3 of what these guys are on, this year,  I will have done ok. Shit I can operate a crane, I might just give them a call…

      • Ben Ross

        Might join you there to try something different (work for Auckland Metro Rail currently) along logistic coordinator at the bottom of the crane?…

      • GPT

        Yeah exactly.  Well said.  Lots of people doing a damn site more for a lot less.

      • Justme

        Work our butts off too; 6-7 days a week mostly all year. The odd day off to mow the lawns or enjoy life. Just enough to pay the exorbitant basic costs of living. No holidays at present, no flash car or extravagant spending. Like you, crap nett.  Never seen $90k a year!

  • Mirtnan

    Watersiders V Opposition List Mps wages?Who does what ,when, how, and gets paid more benefits. Time for a reality check.

  • tas

    I think Kosh’s complaint is that POAL is threatening the union monopoly. The union wants non-members to be paid less than members or, better yet, that the port only employs union members. They are striking because the union feels threatened.

    This should illegal. If businesses did this, the commerce commission would give them a hiding. I don’t see how striking should be treated any differently.

  • diabolos

    I believe in the efficacy of Unions – and i believe in honest open human dialogue and negotiation.   I dont have a clue what the issue is about the port – but it does seem dumb to bring a major port to a standstill.  If it was a major moral issue then that may be OK – and i mean a MAJOR moral issue.  But it may be perhaps a case of misuse of power.  The very thing we on the left accuse the right of so often.

    The job of those on the left isnt to endorse everything a Union does – its to stand up for people – and the principles of people-centred Government.  If a Union does right – then the Union is worth endorsing and backing – but just because its a Union doesnt mean its always on the side of right.

    I detest Key and his Government and their policies and their duplicity and populist bullshit – but i dont detest them to the extent that in order to see them out of power – that i will defend anything that is indefensible.  Thats not right, not leftist and not socialist.   Folks getting $90K approx per annum plus benefits whinging about others getting the same benefits – is juvenile and petty – sit around a table or even just tell the idiots in the media so they can earn their $150k a year so they can lobby more for National and vote themselves an income (again) – but for gods sake dont bring a major hub for commerce to a halt for such reasons.  There are others earning much less than you guys on $90K plus – go and lobby for those poor bastards and dont secretly vote National either you cossetted pricks – as i suspect so many did (there – I feel better now – nothing assuages my angst more than unreasonable and probably unfair accusations).

    Cam and Cactus have raised valid points.  Being partisan to the point of ignoring clear realities is not truth – it is a highway to hell.  Lets leave that sort of nonsense to Key and his cronies – they do it so well we shouldnt try to imitate it.

    • EX Navy Greg

      For once Diabolos I almost agree with you. I don’t agree with your detesting of the elected government, but I agree with your comments in your paragraph 3. All of these wharfies would be national supporters, why are they paying about 20 bucks a week to a gutless union that gets no better benefits for their members than non union members get ?
      I would say to all nzmu members , if you want a $1000 pay rise and better relations with your employer, quit the union

  • Anonymous

    If you want to send a message of support (as I’ve just done) to Ports of Auckland, here is the email address for them –
    feedback@poal.co.nz 

  • Anonymous

    I was just looking at the “stevedore” article on Wikipedia, and the derivation of the word caught my eye.  Here it is - 
    “It started as a phonetic spelling of estivador (Portuguese) or estibador (Spanish), meaning a man who stuffs, here in the sense of a man who loads ships, which was the original meaning of stevedore;… ”
    So there you go.  They’re stuffing their wallets and they’re stuffing the economy.

  • max_power

    The important point is, these clearly are very rich pricks indeed, so how come Liarbore isn’t excoriating them for their naked venal greed? After all, apparently that’s how people become rich pricks isn’t it, so I’m confused.

    If say a manager of some business earns $91,500, they’re a clear and present rich prick, according to Liarbore.

    So how come Liarbore aren’t condemning them? 

    • Anonymous

      Shit yeah…. these bastards are right in the middle of Michael “rich pricks” Cullen’s “rich pricks zone”.
      The silence of Labour is deafening. 

      • Boss Hogg

        Freedom of association please.  You can not ban them, but they sure as hell can not be compulsory as Kosh would probably like to have it from a few generations ago.

        I am somewhat biased against unions, but where I was trained a strike was actually a mutiny.  Then come the Jeremy Clarkson type comments…………

        Big D above gets it though with regard to closing 1/2 the country import/export movements by some rather well off workers.  They clearly need a new union rep if this is what happens. 

        Kosh – it is better that I do not comment on your point of view.  Hang on – Kosh, are you the rep???  sort of adds up.

      • diabolos

        Even worse – the wellpaid persons who have brought a major commercial hub to its knees and thereby imperilled our economy – probably voted national on November 26th.

        They and their Union are then obviously an insult to the term “union” and should be condemned as the double dipping secret National Voters they probably really are.

        Cant you see how insidious the effects of this bright new future really are.

        They should go back to work – apologise for the inconvenience – and reform the “union” into a neoliberal collective … like Fay Richwhite or SCF Investors – or MediaWorks.

        Seriously though – there seems to be no good reason for this industrial action.

        Highly paid workers and secret National Party voters of the world unite!

  • Anonymous

    I blame Labour Party terrorists.

    • diabolos

      No mate – its the new National Party secret support base.

      Its called having your cake and eating it too.

      • Boss Hogg

        Whoa back a minute Big D.  I reckon the only voters Labour have got left are the union members.  Can’t think I ever met a National voting union boy in my time………….   Kosh will know the answer for sure – Hello Kosh – you got a data connection down on the picket line with your ipad that you borrowed from the school ?????

      • Anonymous

        Fuck off D. 

      • diabolos

        Not trolling Thor – never trolling .. thats something you do for trout or gobblers like you.  Seriousness mixed with a little tongue in cheek – or foot in mouth however it fits with your worldview.

        And please … Thor – dearest thor … do not insult the female pudenda by comparison with me.  I hardly qualify.

      • diabolos

        Boss Hogg – good to dialogue with you again – Now Thor you run along cos big people are talking now .. go and persecute your pet ferrit or summit.

        Boss Hogg – im being slightly serious – i think this election proved that we have closet National Voters out in the populace.  I reckon you can peg the voting preference by Position (jobwise not other things) and Income level.  

        If these guys earn around $70 – $90K plus – they didnt vote labour.  Guarantee it.

        Its only a theory – but its always good to get the peasants revolting!

        And i genuinely think Cam and Cactus have unearthed a valuable point.  I’m seemingly replying to myself because your comment has no reply button

      • Killjoy

        Diabolos. If you can pick National voters based on income and position, where does that leave the lawyers and accountants I know that have a “leftist persuasion”???

  • Ben Ross

    Hello Boss Hog ;-)

    • Boss Hogg

      Ben – give me a clue, my memory is pretty shot.  The moonshine shine is the problem I think………….

      • Ben R001

        You mentioned in your post above about not meeting a nat voting union boy? Not sure if you were being serious or not but if you were (god and here is putting one’s soul on the line) I would be one of those nat voting boys as I am a member of the Rail Maritime Transport Union. And before every right winger comes looking for me on a witch hunt, no I personally do not support the strike, have voted for the Nats since 2005 (this is my 3rd general election I have voted in), and to really earn the wraith of the kosh I have been a card carrying nat since 2003!

      • Alsh

        Boss, I have been in the union since I was 18 and I have been voting National since I was 18 too. If you wonder how long I have been member of both 30 years.

      • diabolos

        And your traitorous urges are respected Ben (joking) – i think a very good look at what we are really talking about when we talk “union” needs to be undertaken.

        Its deregulated now – its not compulsory – all good neo liberal stuff – so whats the beef?

        The EPMU equally would have well heeled people as its constituency.

        Could it be that those who have a lot -actually want more.  Shit – thats meant to be capitalism … 

        Unions are no longer what they were – simple as that.

        The least influential Unions are those with the lowest paid constituencies … ie the NDU for example.  All the people who have to fawn all over you at the supermarket checkout and put up with your moans and gripes and lack of patience and courtesy – for example.  And other unions who represent people who clean the shit off your toilet bowls – empty your rubbish bins and generally clean up after you.  Those people – the poor faceless voiceless fucks who exist to polish your knobs (metaphorically).

        I’m all for legislating that union membership must involve provable maximum returned benefits to members – a more businesslike model.

        God help us if John Key decides to rush through under urgency a new union for Highly Paid Tax Cut Recipients or somesuch thing.  John is never one to miss an opportunity.

      • Boss Hogg

        Well there you go – you must feel better about being out of that closet !!!  I wasn’ t being serious – I save that shit (or at least the appearance) of being serious for work. 

        I am very heartened to see a union member voting correctly.  To be fair, my comment was more based on assumptions from sitting around the lunch room talking.  That Diabolos is making assumptions worse than mine though – must go and put him straight.

        Cheers Ben

      • diabolos

        @alsh … can i respectfully ask you and Ben – you vote National – why are you a Union Member … can you describe how that meshes with your political views….

  • diabolos

    Here is an example from the Herald of where Unions real market lies … not with secret National Voters and their supporting ersatz “union” of rich prick supporters.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10770442

    This is a unions real and valid constituency.   I wish to thank Cam and Cactus genuinely – for drawing attention to the disconnect between the accepted Myth of a Union – which in the case of the Port dispute is more about people who are well heeled giving other well heeled people shit and using unionism as a means of validating same … and the very very real reality of the little people who need advocacy and protection.

    David Henderson and his ilk and the top tier of SCF investors get special treatment as thieving greedy bastards while – the little people get asked to accept their role as “collateral damage” in this bright future we all are so very aspirational about.

    “the biggest aspiration in the world …” (to the tune of “the biggest aspidistra in the world – sung with a lisp and slightly you-know-what accent).

    • Boss Hogg

      Hang on again.  Last time I heard Henderson was bankrupt and how did “top tier” SCF investors get any different treatment to other SCF investors.

      You been taking those red pills and falling back on the Joeseph Gobbels training in propaganda now.  Your nose might just start growing !!!

      BTW – I know a fair number of Labour voting workers earning $75k plus – I reckon your on a very strange tack here.

      • diabolos

        Remember Boss Hogg i’m hypothesising and im a fisherman too … i trolled (forgive me thor) and i got bites and im not surprised either.  It doesnt mean that there arent exceptions to the rule either side of the equation.

        If you look at income growth and look at the drivers that accompany that – you see a shift in political affiliation – im certain of it.

        Top tier SCF investors got preference in the bailout mate unless im much mistaken and they were corporates.   And lets not forget the taxpayer bailed them out.  The government has acted precipitately over other issues – but it seems they play by the book when its corporates involved.  Much like the name suppression laws – and the selective use thereof.

        My tack is sound mate … and we mustnt talk Nazis here – they were right wing not left wing despite the appellation “National Socialist…”  Key has practiced Goebbels techniques to the letter – the media and large sections of the public have swallowed it hook line and sinker.

        Henderson may be bankrupt – but he is also untouchable it seems – the lasting aura of money and unwarranted influence.  Cam has rightly pointed that out.  I dont know the ins and outs – like all the unwashed i swallow the tripe im dealt to eat.

        There are many many more layers in this whole debate yet to be unearthed i think.

      • Boss Hogg

        Where has that reply button gone??

        I would be interested to hear comments about preferential treatment on the SCF issue if other people know.  Not that I was affected in any way – I don’t have any spare cash to hand over to incompetent finance companies, need it fo rmy own use and direct investment in productive machinery, bla, bla (another topic)

        I challenge you on the Goebbels (thanks for the spelling correction) comment – The big lie being told often enough until becomes the truth has been the weapon of choice for the left and Fascists (Nazis were not right wing I think you will find) for a long time.

        Helen was the master – can anyone disagree with me on that !!!!

        As far as Henderson, Hotchin, Kruksiner, Finnigan, Rippin et al…..they will all meet up in the bowels of hell at about the same time I would estimate.

        How was the irony of Finnigan and Hotchin getting sucked in by a Ponzi scheme by some dude down in (Rota) Vegas !!!!!!!

      • diabolos

        Boss – we can argue the Goebbels issue till the cows come home – but fact remains they were implacable enemies of the left wing – socialists, communists etc etc – Rosa Luxemburg etc etc …. enemies of the church and any form of reformist movement.   Fascism was an enemy of the left and remains so to this day.

        What Nazism stood for was stable, strong, directional Government by equally stable, strong and directional individuals and a party of same.  One individual was touted to be above all and exemplifying the state and the party.  At least thats what i understand from History.  It appeared to be the ultimate cult of personality.History stands uncontradicted.  it is only revisionists who attempt to skew the viewpoint.
        I am not presenting these points for any other reason – than that you have raised them.  I am therefore responding accordingly.

      • Boss Hogg

        D – good comments.  We all have a common enemy – Fascists.  Don’t get too carried away with the cult of personality thing and John Key -  I thought you nearly were going to link that up.  I know several people that have spent some time with Key, one during the campaign and I get the clear impression that he is a very reasonable man wanting to make a positive difference. 

        I had the pleasure to meet David Lange in 1994 – few stories there – what a great fun guy he was – politics aside.

        Good to get you taking a good nibble at those lures while I troll………….

        Got to run – home time here in Friendly Singapore – Coldy in the fridge waiting – Cheers.

      • diabolos

        Boss – i like Singapore.

        Key  - he is anathema to me.  Nice men do all sorts of things – with smiles on their faces while doing them.  I watched his face when he was challenged – it wasnt a pretty picture.   It is a cult of personality and frankly im not linking that with anything … thats up to the punters to decide.

        Watch the latest post of a video of young nat supporters and make up your own mind.  Would you ask them to babysit your kids …

        David Lange – no admiration for the man at all – we now live with the legacy of him and Douglas.  Well meaning Populist – meet pure evil … and you know how the story went.

      • Boss Hogg

        I get home and family have bailed out to some kids party – never mind.

        Diabolos – I will watch the Young Nats.  I am sure it will give the shits as any young person involved in politics is probably going to be, or turn into some zealot and never have a real job.

        Regarding Lange, as I said, Politics aside.  Damn funny and when you try to wind him up the one line shots back we so witty and quick.  Nothing more than entertainment.

        Singapore is good except they pray to the Money God a wee bit too much.  I am looking forward to having a holiday down in NZ over Xmas to unwind and get back on the rocks with a new (if Santa comes in good) fishing rod…………Need a few more lures for that as well  ;-)

      • Boss Hogg

        Ooooo – That young Nat video was not good.  babysitters – No.  I reckon the young twit speaking looks like Cunliffle – do you think??

        I also reckon he was gonna get lucky with one or both the girls – they looked a bit excited – also not good.

        The guys in the back ground looked like the babies………….

        Nothing good here Big D !! 

    • Alsh

      Diablos, my being a union member provides me with an advocate to help to negotiate with my employer, as collective bargaining can deliver better results.

      As for being a National supporter, they better represent my social values.

      • diabolos

        Fair enough – your response clearly sets out your need for an advocate and an endorsement for collective action.  within the context of this blog – your response is both brave and also very candid for which i personally thank you,

        What are the social values that National better represent … may i ask

  • Elma Fudd

    How in the name of all things wonderful, can someone sitting on their arse for 6 or so hours a day driving a crane justify an income of $100k give or take a bit. People who save lives etc on a daily basis don’t get that. Pre 1951, unions were king and tried, and did, hold the country to ransom. That has all changed and the world is a different place and there is now no place for them. Let people who are prepared to work without “interference” ( read bullying ) from overpaid union secretaries etc, earn their money and feed their families.
    Fuck the unions, and their overpaid vultures who feed on the fees of their members. Bring in the Army.. it has worked before.

    • diabolos

      Except – these are individuals on high nett incomes … and who knows how they vote.  This isnt the early 1900′s or 1951 where poor were poor and rich were rich.  Now its trojan horses inside trojan horses mate – like one of those russian dollys with multiple layers inside.

  • Anonymous

    Just what exactly does the Union offer the Ports of Auckland?

  • Anonymous

    Hell’s bell’s. I haven’t been able to verify this yet, but one of the commenters over at DPF’s Kiwiblog says this - 
    “And just to add salt into the wound, someone on that income, with 3 kids, gets an extra $66 a week from WFF.”
    Gee.  These poor, waifish, underpaid wharfies. They just soooo need WFF to top up their meagre wages.
    Thanks, Labour, you economy-sabotaging CUNTS. 

  • Anonymous

    Why can’t National just make union membership illegal?

    • diabolos

      Agreed – to anyone earning over $45,000 per annum.  

      That’ll put the cat among the pigeons.

      I just love intelligent reasoned debate.

      And yes John Key can do it – he probably has a mandate for it too …

      • Anonymous

        D, that’s the first good suggestion you’ve made since you’ve been here. 
        Fuck the unions. If they want to squeeze the economy, they in turn should be squeezed. 

      • Boss Hogg

        I always had a good laugh at Sue Bradford whe she (it?) was “Chairman of the Unemployed Workers Union”  How the fuck did that ever work and who paid union fees????   Or was she on a benefit(s) at the time?

        Anyway – $45k seems reasonable as per Thor’s comment – why not.  I have no problem with union membership – it is the assholes who bullshit thier way to leadership positions palying on fear the whole way that makes me uneasy.

        At least some of these get exposed as being generally unliked when the public gets a chance to vote on them, think A Little and S Bradford.  Didn’t they do well – Pillocks, both of them.

        Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

      • diabolos

        Boss – im serious about the earning restriction. I think it would really make some difference to viewpoints etc.

        The public by the way didnt vote on bradford or little or anything else … let me tell you what they voted on …

        Fear
        Natural Disasters
        Memorial Services
        Rugby World Cup
        Media Bias
        Spin
        etc etc etc

        Only my opinion of course.  Point is – theres not much to be proud of in succeeding due to other peoples misery and light relief opportunities.  

        A bit shallow really.

      • Boss Hogg

        We just keep going. 

        In a way you confirm my point – the well informed and educated public certainly did not vote for Bradford in any numbers that were outside the probability of people that forgot to take their specs to the booth and made the mark in the wrong place.

        Little did not do much better.

        We can disagree again – Cheers.

      • Boss Hogg

        Forgot to include comment on earning restrictions.  You are taking the piss – Freedom of association – and you know that is the correct answer.

        To say otherwise is a form of social engineering – we don’t like that.

  • diabolos

    Believe it or not Thor i do agree with you about agreeing with me … do it – and see what happens.   You are a typical neo-liberal short term thinker Thor.  You cant see past your nose and thats your curse.

    • EX Navy Greg

      Diabolos, I think you are missing what happened in the election
      People voted for what they didn’t want.
      No more social engineering
      no more welfare for middle earners
      no more lifestyle beneficiaries
      no more gaggle of gays and self serving unionist polticians.

      National sure as hell doesn’t have all the answers, but they have a better vision than the bus to nowhere that the labour party is

      • Boss Hogg

        Hey Greg, you just finished work or just starting?

        Or are you on strike for better conditions.

        Good luck on the business mate – go well !!

      • EX Navy Greg

        thanks Boss ,it’s worth it,when I get on top of my provisional tax obligations I want to employ someone so I get a day off. All I want is to sit on narrow neck beach and suck on a heineken ,or a stella or …a sleep in on sunday, that would be good

  • Phronesis

    All the National voting rich pricks I know are union members. They belong to the Doctors unions the RDA or ASMS. Incidentally very few Dr’s would be on the sort of hourly rates the watersiders are. They also have a minimum of 12 years training and six figure student loans. The reason they belong to a union is because their employer (DHB) is pathetically awful at actually sticking to the terms of the employment contract. The problem is that (older) doctors tend not to let the patients die when it comes around to knockoff time and there is no one to take the next shift because wages are half what they are in aussie. The ASMS has finally worked out that the only way they can improve their working conditions (24/7 on call etc) is to demand that wages are increased enough to attract sufficient staff.

    You really don’t need to be that smart to be Dr. Just do the 6 years at Uni and you can walk straight into a job paying less than a wharfy or move to aussie and get paid twice as much.

  • Kosh103

    Go the Unions.

    • EX Navy Greg

      Way  to go Kosh, you have entertained a lot of intelligent people this evening. Thank you

      • Kosh103

        Sure as hell cant be you lot. Right wing and intelligent people are not 2 statements that ever go together.

    • Boss Hogg

      Kosh – you still down that picket line with the borrowed ipad on 3G.

      You can do better than that “Go the unions” – come on.

      Go back to work and stop disrupting our exporters that earn some foriegn money that can get distributed to the rest of the country…………largely via benefits, wages, salaries and a teeeeeeeeeny bit via dividends.

      • Kosh103

        Given I dont live in Auckland, it would be a bit hard to be on the picket line.

        Where was I tonight – out to dinner at the most expensive place in town. Wonderful food and company.

        Unlike the poor buggers who have to strike becuase of dirty pool by the ports, my employers pay me well, value me, and basicly give me free run to do as I please.

      • Boss Hogg

        OK Kosh, glad to hear that you had a nice night. 

        The “Rent a Crowd” picket line people have cars (and public transport I suppose) so who knows where you might be coming from to support the Comrades.

        “Poor Buggers”  not so sure on that.

        Hope you paid a good tip to the waiter(ess) They might have been on minimum wage, you would not like to have slave labour on your mind while you sleep.

        The unions think they are in the long term game – sadly delusional.  They just damage the whole country with pathetic games.

  • EX Navy Greg

    Reply to Kosh ( java not working) “Unlike the poor buggers who have to strike becuase of dirty pool by the
    ports, my employers pay me well, value me, and basicly give me free run
    to do as I please.”

    So you’re a teacher then ?

  • Bunswalla

    So to summarise the basis for Kosh’s view that POAL is playing “dirty pool” by giving non-union members the same benefits and terms as union members, which justifies a strike, picket, intimidating behaviour, union thuggery and a fucked-up Christmas for a lot of people:
    1. We had to ask for the benefits.
    2. You didn’t.
    3. So it’s not fair that you get them
    4. Unless you did ask for them, in which case we don’t mind.
    5. We will throw all of the expensive toys out of the hand-made cot and stamp our feet, because we can.

    Did I leave anything out?

  • Brian Smaller

    1%ers.  Who would have thought it?

  • Kosh103

    @ boss hogg. Tipping is not a kiwi thing.

    • Boss Hogg

      I was sure that would be your policy.  I enjoy providing a tip when getting excellent service, you should try it.  Don’t just limit your self to restaurants either – try taxis and other service providers.

      Enjoy !!

      Also – which restaurant were you at, give them a plug for being good and let others find out the good spots for when we travel.

      Cheers

      • Anonymous

        Come on Boss you know how it is with these lefties. They are sure these people on low wages deserve more, but they sure as heck aint reaching into their own pocket to help them.

  • Ben R001

    Big D, I am in the union because they have a nice welfare trust with holiday accommodation, subsidised healthcare and worker insurance policies if I have an accident or am killed at work. Also I can represent fellow workers or give them support when they are at hearings. And through advocacy I can work with the Rosters, Planning and H.R team when the shifts are designed or under review so things like breaks and between train turn around times are adequate. People do ned toilet breaks you know ;-)

  • Centrist

    Whaleoil. I see you cite Cactus Kate, who doesn’t really cite any sources herself. You make big assumptions that she is accurate, but you fail to acknowledge that according to the Union, a permanent stevedore working a 40 hour week earns 52 000 (http://www.munz.org.nz/tag/ports-of-auckland/page/5/). In central auckland, the median is 81 700 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-election-results-2011/?page=electorate&e_no=1).

    Please justify your figures, and get back to me.

    FYI, I vote National and have no links to any unions.