Could homophobes secretly be gay?

ŠĒ• Stuff.co.nz

Yesterday I had a very heated discussion about gay marriage with a group of blokes. Some of the arguments against were straight out of the top ten reasons to oppose gay marriage.

As is often the way I was reading up looking for posts to today and found something entirely related to my discussions…I think it may explain some of the more stupid excuses for opposing gay marriage:

Why have some of America’s most vehement anti-gay activists Ted Haggard, Larry Craig had gay sex scandals of their own? An op-ed in the New York Times’ Sunday Review section tries to explain.

The authors of the piece, two research psychologists, say they have “empirical evidence that homophobia can result, at least in part, from the suppression of same-sex desire”.

Their argument summed up in the Times headline as “Homophobic? Maybe You’re Gay” promises to resolve a long-running debate in the field.

For at least 15 years, scientists have been trying to use objective laboratory measures to prove the he-who-smelt-it-dealt-it theory of human sexuality. Has a research team based at the University of Rochester finally done it?

The new study works like an elaborate game of “homo say what?“: Evidence of private, homosexual urges is elicited by subtle verbal cues.

The researchers start by asking college freshmen, mostly women, to rate their sexual orientation on a scale from one to 10 (one means completely straight; five means bisexual; 10 means totally gay) and then to say how much they agree with politically charged statements like, “gay people make me nervous” and “I would feel uncomfortable having a gay roommate”.

Once the students have been characterised according to their relative degrees of gayness and homophobia, they’re shown a series of icons or photos of wedding-cake figurines on a computer monitor two women, two men, or a man with a woman and told to label each one as being “gay” or “straight”.

In a final twist, some of the “gay” and “straight” images are preceded on the screen by a subliminal verbal cue a word flashed quickly on the screen that reads either me or others. If seeing the word me shortens a student’s reaction time for the gay-themed imagery, it’s taken as a sign of her implicit homosexuality. On a subconscious level, at least, she’s associating the word me with gayness.

  • Giovanni

    I prefer the study by Adams, Wright & Lohr in 1996 that showed that homophobic men’s penile blood flow increased when watching gay porn, while non-homophobic men’s didn’t!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014 

    • grumpy

      Makes you wonder about the whole point of making gay porn eh?

    • James Gray

      I heard somebody disproved that in the mean time, apparently anti-gay rage is just as boner-inspiring as gay porn

  • Andy

    A New Zealand study examined the penile response of the participant to various types and models of Utes…

  • nzd.gbp

    Something about this study doesn’t smell right. Are you saying that no actually means yes when it comes to gayness? And they can prove it? With science?
    Bugger me.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL

      ¬†That’s just plain hilarious nzd.ghp – did you mean to say that? Might be over the head of some here….well done!

  • Andy

    Could heterphobes secretly be straight? Has anyone even asked that before?
     

    • Bob

      I reckon there are plenty of heterophobes who simply need to come *straight* out of the closet. Ever notice how most of our queer friends doth protest too much? … “It’s natural”, “Animals do it”, “I was born this way” etc. Yeah right. Who are they trying to convince? Themselves I would suggest. Deep down they know their sexuality is broken.
      Oh but I can’t say that without being called a bigot or a homophobe. The thought police win the day unfortunately.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL

        Not trying to convince anyone I know that I love women – unlike homophobes who do seem overly keen to express their disgust – geez you worried you might get chatted up against your will?

      • Kosh103

        We are trying to educate idiots who know nothing about sexuality. You are quite free to say that and think that, however it only proves what you dont know.

      • Gaz

        yes, Kosh.¬† We know nothing about sexuality.¬† That’s why we have so many kids…

        Oh the irony – Kosh, from the extremes of the bell curve of human sexuality, is going to teach us, the majority, blessed by nature, loved by evolution.

        Teach us Kosh.  Tell us what we need to know.

      • Kosh103

        Gaz, shagging and making babies doesnt make you an expert on sexuality any more than having been to school as a kid makes you an expert on education.

      • Giovanni

        Bob, my life would be so much easier if I was straight. I would not choose this. However, I cannot choose to be straight. Just like you are attracted to women, and cannot imagine being attracted to men, I am the opposite. I tried being straight, and I couldn’t.

        I don’t call everyone who doesn’t feel comfortable with homosexuality a homophobe – it’s OK for people feel uncomfortable about stuff they don’t understand.
        But to go out of you way to marginalise people and make them feel inferior – why would you do that? How am I broken? How does my life affect yours?

    • grumpy

      Seems like Kosh might be secretly straight – time to come out of the closet Kosh.

      • Kosh103

        Ahh I knew some idiot would try that line on me. Thanks for not letting me down grumpy.

      • Gaz

        Kosh, how is that line any different than that taken by the ridiculous study above?

    • grumpy

      So, it’s only a valid argument when the poofs use it eh Kosh?

      shouldn’t you be in the classroom, you know, training those delicate young minds?

      • Kosh103

        Hey dipshit, do you see a post from me supporting the findings? Fail on your part.

        It is worth noting though that over the past few years a large number of homophobic right wingers have been caught having lots of gay sex. Still that doesnt mean all homophobics are self hating gays.

      • Acting Up

        No,  homophobes are generally self-hating humans Рno empathy and a .scary self-righteousness.

  • Redneck

    These studies are all just Stasi left wing / progressive thuggery designed to make anyone opposed to the normalizing of homosexuality keep quiet. Just like the ones proving that “climate change deniers” are either psychologically impaired or low on intelligence.

    Once homosexual “marriage” has been passed we will then see the inevitable sexualization of all and sundry as is happening in parts of the USA where homosexual “marriage” has been enacted. As an example, the Boston based AIDS Action Committee in conjunction with the Massachusetts Department of Public Health released a booklet which was distributed amongst middle-school boys: Here it is here “The Little Black Book – Queer In The 21st Century”

    http://www.article8.net/downloads/LittleBlackBook.pdf

    Let’s examine some of the language in this little book (distributed to 13 & 14yo boys)

    “NO DOOKIE ON YOUR NOODLE – Nobody knows better than queer men that shit happens. It’s just a fact of life . . and buttsex. While there are steps you can take to avoid a mess, they’re not always practical for the boy on the go. Condoms allow you a certain freedom that can be a great selling point it you’re cruising the park and don’t want stray spunk on your new polyester shirt, or if you and your boy want to catch that 7:00 o’clock movie”

    “HOW SAFE IS DAT ? Watersports ? There is little risk of STD infection and no risk of HIV infection when playing with pee. It is possible that hepatitis can be spread this way so avoid getting pee in your mouth and get that vaccination”

    “HOW SAFE IS DAT ? Fisting ? What makes fisting risky when it comes to diseases is that the blood vessels in the rectum are close to the surface which means damage can occur easily and go unnoticed. Avoid too much alcohol or drugs if you fist or get fisted. Know your limits and those of your partners. Trauma can increase the risk of HIV when you get fucked so you might want to get fucked before being fisted. Use lots of lube, condoms and latex gloves.”

    There is no limit to the depths of depravity that the unsublimated human male sex drive can lead to, and societies that placed no boundaries around sexual behavior were stymied in their development. This is why the ancient Heebs put the kibosh on homosexuality and confined sexual relations to being between men and women in marriage, and in paraphrasing Dennis Prager, that is what made Western Civilization possible.

    http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles2/PragerHomosexuality.php

    • Isumbras

      Thanks a lot Redneck… I was eating my lunch…..
      So the theory is because I find the above disgusting I’m secretly gay… err right!
      I recall another ‘scientist’ who used to come out with this sort of ‘research’ Alfred (10% of the population is homosexual) Kinsey…. naturally Hollywood made a movie lionizing him…
      My bullshit detector immediately clicks in when seeing the words ‘experts now say’, ‘studies show’ etc etc…. If there is one thing Global Warming should have taught us, it is to believe Sweet FA as bought to you by the MSM

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL

        !!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL

       Agree with you Isumbras Рtoo much information for my poor pure mind Рespecially on a
      full stomach – Redneck – you’re a real worry (not German are you?)

    • grumpy

      True, Neil.¬† …….but……I don’t think redneck is claiming to take part in those particular passtimes – more a Kosh sort of thing……………

    • Kosh103

      I love it when idiots pretend that MASSIVE numbers of hetros engage in these acts and MASSIVE numbers of queers dont.

      But hey if they admitted that, then they would not be able to spread lies and hate.

    • Mediaan

      Disgraceful if that was allowed to be distributed to boys in Middle School. If they gave it to a kid of mine I would probably change the school.

  • Jimmie

    TMI but effective I guess. I think this argument is flawed. Just because folk have a personal distaste for the thought of two men or women getting it on doesn’t mean they secretly want to do it themselves.

    Does this mean anyone opposed to other antisocial behaviour (think murder/stealing/burglars/binge drinking/kiddie fiddlers) are secretly wanting to do the same?

    This is ridiculous Whale. No one could be opposed to anything without being accused of secretly wanting to do it.

    A vary flawed argument backed up by a very dodgy study Рyou are better than using some dodgy pinko uni study to prove a point. 

    (Or does this mean I secretly admire dodgy pinko uni studies??)

    • grumpy

      Yeah, but in rednecks exhibit A above, it’s only the male poofs who engage in such vile behaviour (and a few Germans). On the other hand female¬†lezzies are hot and wholesome, which is why poofs try to lump in with them – to take the stench :-) away from their perversion.

    • Giovanni

      Jimmie, I think the scientists used proper hardout “I’m gonna beat you up for being gay”¬†homophobes, not your everyday “Ew, I don’t want to do that, but each to their own” person.

  • Grandstream

    Can you be non-homophobic and oppose gay marriage ? I dont consider myself  homophobic, but I dont support gay marriage.  A number of my extended family members are gay, and have had children and are in civil unions.   They dont want to be married, as they see that as a religous symbol of a union between heterosexual couples.
    I dont support it based on my views of what marriage means to me.  Same Sex civil unions provide all the human rights that a married couple has, except for the ability to adopt as a couple Рwhich doesnt stop same sex couple having children.  If marriage was intedned to be between a man and woman, why the rush for the gay community to have something that was never intended for them ? 

    • Gaz

      No, you can’t Grandstream.

      Haven’t you figured it out yet?¬†

      Kosh¬†believes any disagreement, any differing views¬†with regards to¬†homosexuality and homosexual “marriage” is by definition homophobic.

      And homophobia, as per his definition = hate.  *

      He really cannot handle an intelligent, reasonable argument by a gay man who is opposed to homosexual marriage… makes his head spin, and he has no response to that.¬†

      I mean, the dissenter cannot be a homophobe, as he’s gay.¬† But he has to be, since he disagrees with homosexual marriage, but he can’t, but he has to be… etc.

      ** Funny though – when¬†Kosh himself¬†hates, it’s ok.¬† And he really, really hates.¬† Unlike the average “homophobe” who merely disagrees…

      • Kosh103

        Not 100% true but then I am not surprised. If the disagreement is wraped in hate, spite, nasty comments – then its clear its not just a simple disagreement. Not that I expect you to grasp this.

        And I have yet to see ANY on here offer an intelligent reasonable argument opposing gay marriage. And when the haters are faced with the truth of their position they all seem to run away and not return to the thread.

        And lastly, hating hate is quite fine – or do you disagree? Do you feel that we should not confront hate and prevent it from causing harm? Do you think its ok that 1000s of gay teens kill themselves because of the hate that people such as those on here put out?

      • Rufus

        So me disagreeing with you on a moral, Biblical basis causes some gay puppy somewhere to kill itself?!

        Nice one.

        I don’t hate you Kosh – I just think you’re wrong.

        And you shouldn’t hate people Kosh – Jesus didn’t.¬† “Love your enemies” and all that.

        Hate begets hate.

      • Rufus

         Kosh Рtruth is by definition either/or.

        90% true = not true.

        So either what Gaz said was true, or it wasn’t.¬† Pick one.

        As for spite and nasty comments – mate, you’re one of the nastiest, foulest-of-mouth, bitterest, hate-filled commenter on this thread.

        But then it’s ok, isn’t it – because you’re just hating “haters” – and anyone else who disagrees with you…

      • Rufus

         * sorry, not on this thread alone, but on this forum in general.

      • Kosh103

        Oh rufus, the things I could say. However after making a fool of yourself with the whole literal thing below, Im just going to chuckle to myself and leave you be.

        For now.

  • Bunswalla

    This argument reminds me of the one I was able to get away with for a few years when my son was aged between 4 and 7 and didn’t want to go for an afternoon nap. I told him that the fact that he didn’t want to go for a sleep meant that he needed one. Eventually he worked it out and accused me of putting him in a no-win position, which was about the time that I realised he no longer needed that nap.

    Also, let’s not confuse the definition of homophobia – fear of homos. I don’t think there’s that many people that genuinely are afraid of homos, but much as they’ve appropriated other words for their own purposes (such as ‘gay”), the homos have now decided a homophobe is someone that hates or persecutes gays. Now they get to be a victim and whine and bleat like it’s all about them.

    • Kosh103

      Homophobia no longer really just means a fear of us scary queers. It wraps itself around all the hate and what not as well.

      • Gibbybaby

        I suspect it is unintentional, but your implied narrative is very telling.

      • Kosh103

        What does it tell you? That I am gay? That people who hate others because of their sexuality pisses me off?

        Or was it something else?

  • Gaz

    I don’t know.¬† I was born homophobic. Can’t help it sorry.¬†

    I just find it really sad that us homophobes are being persecuted by the likes of Kosh for it.    He has no idea how hard it is to be homophobic in NZ these days.

    Maybe we should start a lobby group and get our rights enshrined in law.

    • Kosh103

      Im glad you find it hard to be homophobic in this day and age.

      Oh and I hope you do start a lobby group, that would be great – then we could pass a law that allows us to brand homophobes on the forehead so they can be shuned bygood and decent folk.

      • Rufus

        ¬†What – discriminate against them like the “gays” were?

        Branding people is a very Nazi thing to do Kosh.  What next, would you like to gas them all?

        I can’t believe you proposed that.¬†

        How are you any different than those you accuse of “hating” you?

      • Acting Up

        And Rufus misses the satire. Whoosh. Must be comforting to be so literal.

      • Kosh103

        LMAO РI was thinking the same thing Acting. I was wondering who would take that post as literal -  and now I know.

  • Ddduble

    I hate the thought of gay sex….but support the right of people to do it…that’s what a mature thinking adult does.

  • Tony

    So far as lesbianism is concerned, if its two hairy legged, fat, ugly academic females, then its morally disgusting and wrong. If its two hot blonds, then its ‘roll out the cameras”!!¬†

  • Gibbybaby

    I’ve always understood and supported civil union. I believe in this day and age, there should be legal protection for people in relationships, gay or not. What baffles me is why gay people demand heterosexual people to change the definition of ‘marriage’ – which is between a man and a woman. It’s a bit rude don’t you think? Emulative behaviour is different from striving for equality.

    • Kosh103

      Why should gay cpls be excluded? What reason is there? How will allowing 2 loving people to marry bring down the system??

      There is simply no valid argument to keep this right from same sex couples.

      • Rufus

        ¬†Where do you get this notion that it is a “right” to get married?

        Who or what gives us that right?

  • Mediaan

    Honestly, pop rubbish. The idea of protesting too loudly being allied to secret desire has been around, and widely canvassed, for yonks.
    “methinks the lady doth protest too much”… Shakespeare.
    Freud described what have been called “ego defence mechanisms” and that was on his list, I.e. 19th century upper middle class Vienna.

  • la la land

    Boy there’s a lot of homophobic people posting here! You do have to ask – WHY are these people so threatened by gay folk?¬†

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