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Rockfield

We’re Rooted ?????

R.

AnonWgtn

I saw at Root and again thought TREVOR (come out wherever you are hiding.)

johnbronkhorst

Should be another catagory……NECESSARY!!!!! Labours key responce….raise the retirement age. So now you can work for 49 years instead of 47 and retire at time where your health prevents you from enjoying it. Also see shearer’s selctive memory…still saying it is the lowest growth in 50 years, seems he’s forgotten the RECESSION cullen put is in to 1 year before the global crisis. “After the worst growth in fifty years, the National Government keeps doing the same thing expecting different results. They’ve even cut their growth forecasts from last year.”….From an EMail sent to me by david parker (mail drop)….idiot. Notice they avoid mentioning the health dept. where the govt. has reversed the mess labour left and that $4.4billion over next 4 years is earmarked as the increase in thi sector. Also what labour calls tnkering, amounts to $100′s of millions of dollars. Labours only answer, is to raise taxes and bring in CGT (disaster).

Kosh103

Nationals great plan is to sell our assets and take money from kids that deliver papers. Good lord what a disaster if this is the best National can do, Roll on 2014 so we can get a REAL Govt.

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

Yeah one that will spend and hope…Remember Kosh that Labour opposes every cut, wants to spend more, borrow more and increase taxes on everyone.
- Kosh103
  
  And yet selling our assets and taxing the paper boy is going to save us?? Bill English has given NZ nothing, taken more from those that cannot afford it and prob helped to lose Naitonal the next election.
- http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL
  
  The dilemma all the world over – including USA – who National USED to always sat we should emulate – spend to stimulate or not….
  Last thing we should be doing is selling assets that help reduce the cost to voters in taxes.
  I have a question for those out there who can afford to buy shares – where is your money coming from to buy these – ?? I have six responses outside this blog and all are going to borrow to buy – WTF is up with that nonsense?? More private debt…
- Johnbronkhorst
  
  To answer your question, Neil…..Everyone can afford it and will. Because the 2 biggest portfolio buyers will be NATIONAL SUPER (perhaps they could please the greens and sell their shares in nuclear sub manufacturers in India, to pay for them) and KIWISAVER!!! So yes EVERYONE can afford it!!!!
Rockfield

Just like Greece eh Koshie ???

R.
Jester

Don’t worry Kosh, with party infighting, leadership wrangles, widespread corruption and the threat of the Greens becoming the only credible party on the left. Come 2014 Liarbor will be in no shape to do anything.

They may as well piss off to Finland now, which reminds me…

Pssst…wanna buy a passport?
Rodger T

How exactly K, is economic suicide the policy of a “REAL” govt?
Where does the money ,food , education and housing come from once Labours dream of 100% welfare dependency is achieved ?

The only upside ,I can see, is that I quite like Greek food.

Retaining 51% of an asset is not selling it, but don`t let that alter your parroting of the party line.
- Euan Rt
  
  I’m sure the Greeks do too Roger, but they can’t afford it.
- Rodger T
  
  To be honest Euan, I don`t know how Kiwis can afford to eat either.
  I`m lucky I`ve got a freezer full of home kill,the prices in the supermarket leave me gobsmacked.
StacyMcNaught

Have to sort of agree Kosh, taxing the young to generate only a few million ( 100 odd million ), to me is just political suicide. They must have been able to find that revenue somewhere else less politically damaging. I still like the basic ideas around this budget, i do think the budget gave New Zealand something, welll more than the spend and borrow of Labour. But that one part of it has really given the Opposition some ammo, genuine ammo too.
In Vino Veritas

Take money from kids who deliver papers? Clearly you havent read the relevant bit Kosh, and you are pulling out the old socialist trick of sensationalism. Kids on paper runs will not make enought to have to file a tax return. And yes, National is about to sell down state assets, pity it’s not 100%. The financial niceties of this are beyond Cunliffe and Parker, all they have in response is idealogical platitudes appealing to emotion, rather than reality. Governments have never been any good at owning revenue producing assets, that is why socialism in all it’s guises has failed consistently and repeatedly around the world.
- Johnbronkhorst
  
  The paper round tax changes are about stopping their parents off setting their taxes against this “house hold income”…Idiot kosh!!!!!
- Kosh103
  
  LMAO, really John. Really. Yeaaaaa, you go with that. Key is hoping Paper boys will save the country. That is what this govt has been reduced to because of its awful mismanagement of the country.
  Give tax cuts to the rich, sell NZ law to Keys mates and kick the middle class and poor in the guts. This is the National govt we have. Roll on 2014.
- Johnbronkhorst
  
  Would laugh your arse of there Kosh, you have little enough to think with, without losing more!
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Tax cuts to the rich? When was this? Another common spiel of emotive drivel from the socialists. G’won Kosh, bleat about fairness, dare you. All National did was give back what was taken away by Labour. Equilibrium returned Kosh. If Labour had managed 9 years of economic prosperity correctly and sensibly, there would have been no need to raise taxes in the first place.
LesleyNZ

Kosh – but you wouldn’t vote Labour!
NEMS

more adults than kids deliver papers in our area, and yes if they earn over the allowed amount, they should pay tax, kids dont usually get to that amount so can get refund i beleive
Alsh

Yes the one that gets rid of infinate Welfare and the bludgers that live for ever on it.

Euan Rt

I thought TV3′s coverage with Duncan – I know you’re watching Duncan – was much better than of late. Much more balanced and asking opposers of the budget much better questions rather than just giving them a free rein. If whalers didn’t get a chance to see Key’s speech in parliament yesterday it was another ripper. Poor old Shearer spoke first and delivered his best speech yet. He sat down afterwards and you could see he was very happy with his performance, and then Key just demolished him. You could see the anguish on Shearers face each time the camera panned back to him while Key pulled the rug from under him.
Anyway I think the media are starting to hear and take notice of the growing discontent, although TV1 have really gone to the pack with Coran interviewing his own left ear – pathetic.

Jester

Keys speech. I watched it Euan and also couldn’t help notice the opposition benches reaction every time JK stuck it home and landed a haymaker on Shearer.

Watching them slumped back in their seats deflated, unhappy, resigned and void of any answers was like watching a rugby game where a professional team are up against amateurs.

10 mins left in the match, down by 60 points, they have run their guts out and still can’t crack the opposition defenses. Hands on knees the only thought that is going through their head is will it be 80 – nil or 90 – nil.

Priceless!
- http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL
  
  Ditto for you Jester…. I agree Shearer’s speech was better but Key has the experience of talkiing forever with a smile on his dial and saying absolutely nothing……
- Kosh103
  
  You must have been watching it throught those new tinited glasses that show you only what you want to see.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL

Bad misreading of body language here sorry – it’s just wishful thinking on your part…
- Euan Rt
  
  Well Neil maybe you missed the crosses to David Shearer. so here take another look:
  http://inthehouse.co.nz/node/12904
- Jester
  
  Neil go to 17:16 and if you can tell me that it represents a Labour party that is on the top of it’s game.
- Euan Rt
  
  And Neil I cant see where you get the idea that John Key says nothing. The whole speech was full of stats that we never hear about, eg Aussies unemployment rate per capita is higher than NZ. He also listed all the growth initiatives that National have brought in, or would like to, that Labour don’t support. It was indeed Shearer that said nothing in his speech other than cliche and platitude.

AngryTory

Should be another catagory……NECESSARY!!!!!M

Yes Austerity is necessary but this isn’t an austere budget. It’s not a zero budget.
It’s’ a Minus Ten Billion budget (and that’s probably being kind).

He’s not called Bill English – call him BIll the Greek

Gazzaw

Both necessary and PRAGMATIC.

If English had adopted your proposals of cutting public service wages by 50% and benefits by two thirds there would be protests, rioting & civil unrest the likes of which this country has never seen.
- http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL
  
  The word Pragmatic doesn’t apply in this debate – there is NOTHING pragmatic about this budget…..and I use that particular word advisedly.
- Gazzaw
  
  I disagree:
  
  “dealing with regard to practical requirements or consequences”
  
  “relating to the affairs of a State”.
  
  However, there is a word that we can agree on – pedantic – and I do not want this thread to go down that track.

Phar Lap

Cause for such a responsible budget.1 Kiwirail 2 Interest free student loans.3 Working for families.All crazy spending and election bribes by a now defunct Lie -bour Government.The Nats are endeavouring to right the wrongs of financial Pygmies,just listen to one of them waxing on Parker a retread Polly who couldnt even get his company records straight.That lot and a suspected illiterate teacher have conviently overlooked the fact that Lie-bour left NZ a legacy of a decade of deficits.We will try to overlook that fact,except we should never forget it.

la la land

I’m in the necessary category – in this case boring is good. And all the opposition can come up with is how many people will leave for Aussie – well if they want to because of this budget then great. Who gives a toss. They won’t have much going on upstairs anyway.

In Vino Veritas

And la la, Labour go on about losing our best and brightest, when the majority of people who leave for Australia are in fact unskilled – there was an article in the Herald a month or so ago with the data. Basically it showed that in fact it was our worst and dumbest going across the ditch.

Also, the Department of Labour says that the brain drain is a myth, its no worse than it has been for decades. For eg: 1% of the population went in the year to June 2011, compared departure rates of 1.4% at the end of the 1970′s. http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/196465/brain-drain-aust-myth-study

Another Labour beat up, well make that lie.
- AnonWgtn
  
  The biggest problem with immigration to Australia is that with a criminal record – it is a no go.
  So we will be left with those with a criminal record !!
- Kosh103
  
  Actually the people who leave NZ are of all skill levels. And labour has not been the Govt for 4 years now. This is alll Nationals doing. The record numbers leaving are because of Nationals mismanagement of the country.
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Can you not read Kosh? The numbers are not record numbers at all. You are just repeating stuff made up by Labour. Have a look back through the Herald for the last few months, there was an article in which some geezer did a study. Majority of leavers are UNSKILLED. ie: worst and dumbest. Doesnt matter how you cut it Kosh, they are not our best and brightest.
- http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL
  
  It’s been more of a media (MSM) beat up which the opposition have lamely tacked on to….
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL

Don’t agree – sooner or later this country’s government – whichever it may be has to get the wildly out of control property bubble burst, hopefully sooner. There’s far too much investment money and debt going into this sector of the economy and a Capital Gains tax on any property other than you own residence is a good first step.
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Don’t agree with what Neil?
  Property is worth what someone will pay for it, and currently, people are still paying. You can claim it is a bubble all you like, but the prediction of a “correction” by the doomsayers has been around for 25 years. And guess what? Nothing. CGT will not make any difference to property prices, probably just put rental prices up if anything. It is a falsehood to say property speculation has caused the rise in prices (and is holding prices where they are). Economics 101, demand outstrips supply, prices go up. Simple.

Polishpride

There is another option. Nationalise Banking, still have fractional reserve but the Govt gets to create money out of thin air that can then be used to pay back the countries debt. The revenue from interest paid by citizens through mortgages etc can be used to invest in the country and lower taxes . Everyone in NZ is better off

In Vino Veritas

Polish, interesting…….. but stupid. You are proposing socialism. A system which has failed miserably wherever it has been installed. The equal sharing of misery doesn’t make everyone better off.
- Polishpride
  
  In VV
  I am not talking about installing socialism. I am talking about nationalisng the function of banking. There is a massive difference.
AnonWgtn

We have a heavily taxpayer subsidised New Zealand bank called Kiwi Bank.
Without large taxpayer subsidies via NZ Post they would not exist.
- Polishpride
  
  so take out the competition and you no longer need the subsidies – simple furthermore I’d be interested in figures on that.
http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

Polishpride,

I agree. Why private companies have the ability to create money out of nothing while as governments can’t or won’t, I don’t know.

I think the biggest problem explaining this idea is that people do not know that banks create money out of nothing. They think they lend money that exists.
Johnbronkhorst

You tried this bullshit line before polish….re fractional banking!!!Are you advercating a return to the gold standard? Where the world population gets bigger faster than the supply of gold (or other commodity) and therefore we all get automatically poorer every year.
- Polishpride
  
  john actually read my post – Govt gets to create money out of ‘thin air’ instead of corporates – thats still fractional reserve, NOT gold standard so based on that I assume you would be in favour of such a solution.
  Do you actually understand how fractional reserve works? If not go and find a copy of ‘Modern Money Mechanics’ and read it.

Polishpride

and you no longer have to sell assets or take kids paper route money.

STEVE AND MONIQUE

Yeah lets go on a spending spree,we can afford more debt,and hell our kids can pay it back when they are working without super etc.FFS,look at what is going on in the rest of the world(Greece)etc,and see what huge debt gets you.Borrowing to pay for policy is fucking stupid.So find the money somewhere else,like 49% asset sales.And yes do tax smokers more,cause they are likely to end up in healthcare.As for paper runs,with the present bullshit media antics in this country,they are a dying breed.So lets do what Labour/greens/mana/NZ first,want,and spend,spend ,spend.Fuck,we wont have to pay for it.Sorry son.

M Gray

So its alright for us to borrow to pay for people to have kids (working for families) but not the poor and single girls NO, we can only give money for people who work (to have kids) even though thats there choice and the pension this is no longer affordable with many pensioners having accumulated wealth this now needs to be targeted but NATIONAL HAVENT GOT THE GUTS TO MAKE THIS CHANGE they would rather continue to kick the poor and working class battlers in the guts and wipe out the middle class while there at it
- Didn’t write that. Mediaan
  
  Oh no, not one of those benefit-bringers who feels aggrieved that a special small allowance was brought in for parents who work to support themselves but don’t earn much?
- Mediaan
  
  I typed “benefit bingers” but this stupid damned I-Pad changed it to benefit bringers, three times. Then it jammed and wouldn’t let me type any more.
- Mediaan
  
  Dont buy an IPad.
- Mediaan
  
  Trying to type a comment but edited out, several times. This I Pad has definite
Polishpride

Steve and Monique you missed the point completely – there is no increase in debt through this in fact it eliminates the debt altogether and increases the growth of the economy.

Actually stop and think for a minute. This is exactly what we do now but rather than give the power to create money from nothing and then charge interest on it to foreign banks.
The result from this of course is massive profits are generated by those banks but they head off shore. Because the profits aren’t spent within our economy there is far less growth in our economy than what there would be if the profits stayed here and were spent here.

The result from what we do now of course is that in the current system if we want to do anything outside what is provided for by the tax take, we have to as a country borrow money from an international banking system that (again that did nothing more than enter some digits into a computer and transferred them to NZ. The interest and principle of course is paid back by the tax payer through greater taxes.

By keeping fractional reserve banking but nationalising it, where do the profits go? Well they stay here in New Zealand. Who creates money out of thin air. The government gets to which certainly beats borrowing and increasing taxes to pay for it.

Now if the govt can A create the money via fractional reserve banking (rather than corporations having this privilege as they do right now) and can generate revenue through mortgage repayments (as corporate banks do now too) They never have to borrow another penny. They have more money and could through a fiscally responsible government using this system theoretically eliminate taxes altogether.

Even if taxes weren’t eliminated they can still charge far less interest on mortgage rates (after all they haven’t borrowed it from anywhere and therefore have no interest to pay on it). Or they can lower tax rates at least by the amount that the bank makes as profit from lending and fees.

Two examples
Iceland – one of the most prosperous nations in the world when banks were nationalised
Canada – Country with very good economy when banking was nationalised

Both countries turned to shit when banking was privatised
Iceland bankrupt
Canada Massive amounts of debt.

Stop putting labels on things (its capitalism, its communism, its socialism) so you can close your mind to an idea. Actually think about the idea itself on its own merits, try to break it by all means, whatever we do if we want to progress we must first stop and think .

remember I for one want to get rid of tax and money altogether under a system of true democracy. i.e. pretty much no government
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Canada? Tell me exactly when Canada turned to shit Polish. Central Govt debt to GDP hasnt been below 40% for the last 12 years. Banks in Canada are broken down into schedules with the Big 5 being non-foreign owned with Royal Bank of Canada being the largest, and its listed on the Toronto stock exchange since 1907. Where are you getting your info from?
- Polishpride
  
  584,122,764,789.22 CDN
  Every man, woman and child in Canada currently owes $17,125.30 for their share of Canada’s public debt
  
  Countries shouldn’t be in debt period.
- In Vino Veritas
  
  But Polish, socialism relies on debt since as a system, it relies on other peoples money, either via taxes, or via borrowing. See Greece. You still havent answered my question as to Canada turning to shit. There appears to be no evidences of this, yet you have commented as if it is fact.
  
  And as a correction, Canada hasnt been above 40% of debt to GDP. My bad.
- Polishpride
  
  In VV
  
  again I am not talking about installing socialism. I am talking about nationalisng the function of banking. There is a massive difference. you will never find solutions to problems if you can only think everything is either socialism or capitalism.
  My point is Canada has massive debt and is far worse off than it was 40 years ago like many nations including this one.
  Perhaps you think there is nothing wrong with countries getting into debt and using taxes to pay for it. I do especially when there are alternate solutions.
- http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OK7Y7PCSTJ27RCKZ2MGRSAYCTE NEIL
  
  And look what has happened to Iceland since their economy crashed – and how they got back up again…….it’s been well hidden by most of the western MSM
- Johnbronkhorst
  
  Polish you idiot…just because you are not saying the word SOCIALISM…doesn’t mean that it isn’t EXACTLY what you are describing and advocating!!!
- Polishpride
  
  johnbronkhurst clearly you never learned critical thinking and how to analyse a statement. Let me show you how it works.
  
  I have essentially said Nationalised banking yadda yadda yadda.
  
  You have said - just because you are not saying the word SOCIALISM…doesn’t mean that it isn’t EXACTLY what you are describing and advocating!!!
  
  So effectively based on your statement what your idea of socialism is its entirety is ……….Nationalised Banking.
  
  And therefore by definition Capitalism must be Privatised Banking….
  
  So we can have the govt tax the shit out of us and have huge govt spending in all areas (except of course Banking) and by your definition John its all good because banking is privatised and we have capitalism…….interesting but not the world I want to live in.
  
  How about we try it a different way
  John
  option 1 – continue to have a system where if we want to spend outside the tax take we have to borrow. Then either raise taxes to pay for it anyway, or increase the number of people in the country and pray the economy takes of in leaps and bouns to pay for your borrowing.
  
  Option 2 never spend more than you tax take while prices continue to rise and overtime infrastructure fails as we can no longer afford to maintain it or provide any of the services we do now, massive unemployment, problem compounded,
  
  Option 3 never borrow again, create money through fractional reserve system by govt rather than corporations and as a result have money to lower tax rates and spend on infrastructure
  
  Option 4 get rid of Money
  
  I’m all for option 4 but which one would you pick JB
  
  again John don’t put a label on it show what actually doesn’t work in the original solution I put forward.

Whafe

Labour & there supporters make me piss blood, the sensationalism is beyond a joke….

Polishpride

if part of the reason you follow politics isn’t for the sheer entertainment factor on all sides then you probably should consider getting a hobby on the side
Kosh103

The truth is the truth. National are crashing the country.
- In Vino Veritas
  
  In your world Kosh. In your strange, minority, miserable world of fairy stories.
- Rodger T
  
  Take your blinkers off Kosh , the entire world economy is crashing.
  I suspect things are going to get a shitload worse before they get better, there is nothing National or Labour can do to stop it.
  While I am ambivalent towards Key , I would rather an ex banker be steering the country than any of the cretins in Labour.
- Kosh103
  
  No vino, in fact. The only way they can think of is to sell stuff and tax kids. Then hope for the best. They have been a disaster and the sooner they are gone the better NZ will be.
- Johnbronkhorst
  
  Really Kosh…we have growth ….labour gave us recession 1 year BEFORE the global crisis, unemployment DOUBLED under labour 2007-08 (with auntie helen sweeling the public sector as fast as she could), Hospital waiting lists exploded, incompitant purchasing in the millitary, corrupt immigration practices, biosecurity nightmare (veroa bee mite and PSA), etc etc the list is too big to complete here, but all this when all international comentators were saying 2000-2004 was the largest international economic growth for a GENERATION and labour still couldn’t keep up, for christ sake a blind dog with a note in his mouth could have run the economy then & they FAILED to take advantage!!!!!
- Whafe
  
  On this occassion, “Fuck Off Kosh”
  
  You would argue the sky was green…. Your narrow mindedness is become a chore, go to the Standard etc…
- Kosh103
  
  Given when Labour left we were in surplus and Bill English actually praised the condition of the books (before he was told not to do such things) you are full of shit.
  
  And wafe, no. You fuck off and dont read my posts if the truth upsets you that much.
- Guest
  
  Errr – when Labour left Govt we weren’t in surplus and in their last budget they had a ‘decade of deficits’ forecast.
- Polishpride
  
  No Actually VV Kosh is correct you just need to take the blue tinted glasses off so you can see it…… But Labour would not currently fare much better IMHO as the problems are systemic
- Polishpride
  
  Rodger T
  I agree with everything you said except having an ex banker in charge as they got us into this mess in the first place and have historically only ever proven to be self serving in their agenda.
- Polishpride
  
  johnbronkhurst
  we would actually be in a far worse position with the current worldwide economic problems if not for the work Labour did in focussing on expanding international trade.

M Gray

Johnkey nose is red its too far up teh Americans backside im just waiting for the n- ships to arrive

http://profile.yahoo.com/DWM6YFWDG7UN56BCODP2FCMSX4 Phil Ma Crackin

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out
of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another
person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to
anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody
else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half
of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half
is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it
does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for,
that is the beginning of the end of any nation.Checking the Budgets key facts for taxpapyers, 2% of people over the age of 16 earning $150K + pay 19% of the tax. 65%% of peolpe over the age of 16 earn less than $40K and pay 19% of the tax without counting the WFF tax credits.

Seems everyone wants the government to spend more money as long as it comes from someone else.

Mediaan

Yes, like that quote with five points.

You say, quoting the budget, that 2pc of people in NZ earn over $150,000.

How many work of those work as public servants, for local or central government? My guess is 30pc. They have a grotesquely inflated idea of their own value. As an employer, I would probably not hire one of them.

I can tell you that the top nine salaried workers employed by Christchurch City Council earn an average of $300,000 each.

Dave

A different tact. The budget, whilst uninspiring, was designed to do enough to keep the economy heating up slowly but steadily, whilst not blowing out Government borrowing and maintaining GDP. Modest shifts of focus in spending, and hopefully outside the budget, Nationals move to cut the Welfare nanny tit will stop the huge dependency we suffer from sometime in the distant future. While overall i think National is heading in the right direction and Key is leading very well i have concerns.

Concerns, that our welfare system is so far out of control, it will take between a quarter of a century to get to where it should be (one generation). Short term welfare only not a lifestyle choice.

Concerns, that our indigenous people, have become so accustomed to claiming anything of value, and still holding their hand out, they have the worst statistics of almost any indigenous group across the world, when you take crime etc into account.

For these reasons, and several more (MMP, Labour/Greens unreal and idealistic approach), we have sold the business, and we will join the exodus to Australia at the end of the year.

No Kosh, not due to National, but if they managed to STOP the dependency that successive labour governments have created it might make a difference.

Kosh103

Ah well Im sure NZ will be the better for your move. Have fun.

Phar Lap

Just to reiterate again, and again, and again .The reasons for the zero budget is Labours economic mess ,they left NZ in .There are still quite a few of them left in that party sucking out off the trough.Goff,King ,Cosgrove Cunliffe, Jones, and the sick looking pest Parker.Robertson who was in Clarks bosom with Simpson.They are all part of the great NZ financial meltdown.I think it is time that lot of bums and stiffs should be exposed,the mind boggles.

allfinanz finance

Visionary and inspiring ! butstill Bill English is a dullard Having all the appeal of a dry root,, why even i am discussing,,its full of crap. Source New Zealand bank

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