Appealing to Waitakere Man

Well this one must be on Chris Trotter’s wish list for the future of the Labour party. ¬†Today’s Herald on Sunday has run a photo from a recent ‘Get it On’ event – Urge Black at the Emperor’s Bathhouse. ¬† The Herald’s photo is taken from the ‘Get it On’ facebook page.

Nothing out of sorts here except that the HoS has highlighted David Shearer’s Chief of Staff Alistair Cameron attending and showing off his particularly fine physique. ¬†Why is this an issue? ¬†Well of course it isn’t. ¬†Well, not really. ¬†Except that Labour are desperately trying to appeal to the ‘Waitakere Man” and to have the most senior staffer cavorting in next to nothing in a room full of queers probably won’t appeal to Waitakere Man.

Face it Chris, Labour no longer wants to appeal to ‘Waitakere Man’. ¬†He’s been left out in the cold. ¬†The few blokey Labour men are either ¬†closet right wingers like James Bews -Hair or, like O’Connor and Tamihere, have worked out that Labour is doomed to be run by the ‘gaggle of gays’ and the ‘self-interested unionists’.

I very much doubt that Shearer could quietly ask Cameron to think about Labour’s brand when he attends events (even in a personal capacity). ¬† I can just see the howling of homophobia, the “Chris Carter” defence and Cameron running to the man who installed him (Robertson) for some assistance in retribution. ¬†Yeah sure, Cameron is there for Shearer. ¬†I called bollocks on that here in April.

So, Chris, was this what you had in mind from Shearer in leading Labour back to Labour’s roots?

 

  • Pukakidon

    Amazing how the Labour party has evolved over the last 20 years.   From the average  hardworking  man such as the waterfronter, freezing worker or miner pre 1990 to now a group of guys half dressed in leather rubbing themselves up against each other. 

    The females seem to have morphed in the masculine with deep voices and rugby players thighs.  They now resemble the old strong blue collar waterfronter and miner. Interesting to witness the evolution, it would be a great scientific biological study for a university student.

    • gazzaw

      Even the unionists are a joke Pukaki. Wonder what Lee, Skinner, Douglas & Walsh would think of the current crop whose main agenda appears to be to get on to the scum list MP gravy train.  

    • DJ

      ¬†You see back in those days “working man” had a completely different connotation.

  • Alex

    I can tell you as a gay male — and like all decent hardworking Tory voting gay males — I’m pretty disgusted with this continual association with the “gay lifestyle” with near naked, buffed up, sex obsessed carry on.¬† Give me Chris Finlayson’s quiet achievement to Carter, Cameron et al’s un-quiet non-achievement any day.

    • Phronesis

      If I was a gay male I would probably feel the same. Interestingly I think this sort of thing shows a strong underlying bias against homosexuals. The idea that this sort of behaviour is acceptable for homosexuals when the hetero equivalent (kinky swingers parties?) is not going to be reported in the same way shows that the media thinks homo’s have inherently different moral standards. Very dangerous to¬†infer that¬†any group¬†is morally inferior, particularly when it is a minority of that group in the first place.

      • Alex

        ¬†Sadly you’re correct about perceptions.¬† But the vast majority of gay and lesbian people see the sex-obsessed culture for what it is — shallow and soul destroying and want no part of it.¬† That needs to never be forgotten, ¬†¬† When I was growing up, I actually found the behaviour exhibited in the Urge party more alienating and self-esteem shattering than any homophobic insult flung my way.¬† I’ve got no problem with hetero or homos who want to behave this way, but please have the common decency not to “celebrate” it in the media.

      • le sphincter

        So you are happy with  75 years of gay hating media portrayals  instead.
        The tone of your comment which is ‘take your lifestyle back in the closet’ indicates you have absorbed the ¬†gay hating and become self hating to compensate. If you want to hide ¬†to friends and family ¬†, fine. But spare the sanctimony for those ¬†who can celebrate openly and¬†publically.

      • Alex

        ¬†@db0596eface858b98c9cfdb28013212f:disqus get a grip.¬† saying you don’t find the Urge party appealling is NOT the same as saying “lets all go back in the closet”.¬† There is a middle way. If you had any idea of how much a turn off — and marginalising — the Urge party et al is to your average gay and lesbian person, you would understand where I’m coming from.¬†

      • Pukakidon

         Stink hole,  you the Labour party and the media are the problem.  You stereotype, and demand that gay people must demonstrate how committed they are by their sexuality or they must be shamed.   What a load of horse pucky.   If someone is gay or not,is their business and we should not expect them to prove their sexuality.  

        People are measured by their actions not by their sexual orientation.   How about you just let people get on with their lives without making assertions of what your self appointed Liarbour holier than thou do-gooders try and represent, we know it is a front and in reality deep down you are just another dishonest bigot who  expects that homosexuals must prove to your liking, their level of sexuality or they will be labeled as not being gay enough.

    • Gayguy

      The you must HATE the idea of the “lets get Nicki Kay reelected” Pride festival next year.¬†

      I remember the old Pride parades and how they were put out there as a celebration of gay life. Well (like you) as a gay man I was horrified to see what they showed as gay life. And I cringe at the thought of what next years thing will look like. 

      • Alex

        I hear you.¬† I suspect that pride group organisers and homophobes are in some sort of Faustian pact — whereby they feed off one another’s distortions of what it means to be gay or lesbian. ¬† I’d happily banish both pride days and homophobes.

    • Pukakidon

      ¬†Alex, the sooner being gay is normalised rather than being marginalised by the so called do-gooders the better.¬†¬† I don’t think anyone should be trying to overtly prove their gayness any more than someone trying to prove how hetrosexual they are.¬† Both are in your face and annoying. ¬† If someone is comfortable with their sexuality then that is all that should matter.¬†¬†

      Helun and the Labour party marginalised gay people by having a separate title (Civil Union) with less rights than the rest of the population.   That to me is worse than a bigot.  At least a bigot is truthful.

  • thor42

    It’s amazing how Labour have been out-manoeuvred in the last few years. The Greens have taken a big chunk out of their left flank, and if Labour said that they were moving to the right, no-one would believe them.¬†

  • Fergus

    was labour ever for the worker?..How have the lives of the averasge labour voter in Porirua, Mangare bridge etc improved, over the past 50 years?…OH….THEY HAVEN’T!!!!!!

    • Bawbag

      Oh let me think here. The average family in those districts pay the least tax yet qualify for the highest family credit and subsidized housing. 

    • gazzaw

      Absolutely right Fergus. You would have to look at a labour fortress like Mangere & assess what happened with David Lange as MPand in the ensuing years. Fuck all, in fact the electorate has gone backwards. This despite nine glorious years of socialism under clarke.

      I do believe in the early years that labour genuinely stood up for the working classes. The first labour government did a tremendous amount of good work & enacted a lot of much needed social changes. I am not enough of a political historian to figure out when the wheels started to fall off and the chardonnay mob take over but I guess that it was in 1984 under Lange.

      • BG

        No political historian either.

        But in my opinion, it does appear that the rot started to set in around the Lange period, where many of the social engineering univestity elite felt an affinity to his intellect and gravitated toward Labour.

        Unfortunately the Waitakere Man was silenced under the ‘we know whats best for you’ dictation from Clarke, Mahary, Carter en tal and add further to that every other interest group joined up as well as¬†the ‘elite club’ wanted to appeal to all the minority groups; the gays, woman specific, the PI’s.¬†So ‘waitakere man’s’ voice got silenced even further.

        The problem is that Labour has taken “waitakere Man’ for granted¬†for too long and now when they turn to him in their time of need, he has worked out that Labour no longer represents him. Oh sure there’s still O’Connor and Jones, but as they used to be the norm now they’re the minority and many in the party are quite embarrased by them. Noting O’Connon list position.

        JT is the epitome of this example. A westie through and through, shafted by Clarke because he actually gave his opinion on things and drifted toward National.

        Well juts my opinion.  

      • DavidW

        While the shift co-incided with Lange’s ascension to leader, I would not discount the influence of the feminist cabal of Clarke, Wilson, etc who were instrumental in setting the agenda for the removal of male influence in our schools, mass media and social policy in general. ¬†
        Waitakere man is now seen as crass, uncouth, violent and dangerous around women and kids so he is to be shunned and made unmentionable, not only amongst the chardonnay socialist set but even many liberal right thinking people now have ¬†this image of a “working man” who is to be looked down on from a great height.

      • Johnbronkhorst

        The wheels were definately wobbling under Kirk. But I believe he was just a lazy sod. Who did nothing (and didn’t understand word one about) the globel implications happening around him..No action on oil shocks, no action on the¬†many reports that unless a large scale electricity generation plant was built, we would have cuts in the 80′s. We knew this as early as ’67, and investergations were under way, Kirk cancelled them causing…you guessed it Clyde dam project problems and power cuts in the ’80′s!!!

  • Mr Sackunkrak

    The Waitakere Man moved to a beautifully renovated Ponsonby double bay villa on a 95% home loan many years ago and discovered his bi side. 

    • gazzaw

      He probably lives next door to David Cunliffe, a true parliamentary representative of the New Lynn working classes.

      • le sphincter

        Or Bill English, juggles family life , a working farm and politics while getting the taxpayer to pay him to live in a Khandallah enclave.
        Interesting how he honed his lambing skills while  Chair of the Haitaitai branch of the National party, or drafting heifers in the corridors of the Treasury.

      • gazzaw

        Don’t we¬†the taxpayer pay for your total existence l’arsehole? People in glasshouses………………………

        Get a job, start paying tax and then you have the right to comment.

      • Ford

        le sphincter on the dole too..we” take over the world one day
        gazzaw..you not abusing someone are you?..hipocritical self righteous pretentious prick

      • Ford

        gazzaw..what was bill english getting for accomodation?..$900 a week..not bad for a millionaire and farmer ay..$900 = aprrox 4-5 dole cheques..i get $22 accomodation allowance ..the govt helps the wealthy and its the poor that have to beg borrow and/or steal..we know why pricks like you love the Nats so much

      • Agent BallSack

        Hey Ford if youre that hard up get a fucking job.

      • le sphincter

        I own a business, for a moment there I though you said YOU ran a blog.

        You couldnt run behind a lawnmower!

      • gazzaw

        A prick maybe ford but hypocritical not.

      • Mr Sackunkrak

        Sphinc, you’re dribbling shit again.¬† Pucker up.

      • Ford

        hey ballsack..i may be poor but im not hard up..hard up is a state of mind in this country and im way better off than alot of working ppl

        and gazzaw..hypocrite you are for having a go at ma over the language i use addressing ppl then use abuse le sphincter..shot homo

      • Polishpride

        A few years back¬†I remember walking to a¬†meeting with a work colleague along the wellington waterfront on a perfect sunny Wellington day. Halfway along we passed a homeless man sleeping on a bench seat. I found it ironic that myself and my work colleague work 40 – 60 hours a week to pay the mortgage on a house with a view of the Harbour out in suburbia (Lower Hutt to be precise). With the hope that one day we will be able to afford a house on¬†Oriental Parade or that we will have enough to retire and won’t have to work anymore. ¬†Compare that with the homeless guy that had¬†a spot closer to the waterfront than the¬†million¬†dollar apartments on oriental parade. He clearly¬†wasn’t going to work that day and probably rolled on down to a soup kitchen somewhere for a free feed at the appropriate time, add to that he probably still receives the dole. So best spot on Wellington waterfront, free¬†food, free money and doesn’t have to work.¬†Who’s the idiot Those working!?! or the homeless guy……..¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†

      • Ford

        PolishPride..the less one has the less one has to worry about losing it..the more you have the more stress goes with it..i had a car stolen once..i was more releived than pissed..no car..no worries

  • Greg M

    The rot set in with the 1987 Labour Govt when Roger Douglas left in my opinion.
    Also, compare men of the day like Jim Knox to the latest offering Helen Kelly, and one is left wondering who actually does represent “waitakere man” nowadays.

    • ConwayCaptain

      Gfreg M

      Saw the boat for you on sale on Trade Me.

      One of the old Inshore Patrol Boats used by the Rockies.  HMNZS Moa if I remember right.

      Join the Royal Yacht Squadron and you could wear the White Ensign!!!@!¬† The one wth the St George’s Cross

      • Greg M

         Captain,
        It’s HMNZS Kahu, I put a tender in when it first came up for disposal.It’s a good little ship. I do belong to the RNZN sailing club, Burgee attached.

  • Chris Trotter

    You should know by now, Cam, that I abandoned the Mauve Knight some time ago.

    I have no problem with Mr Cameron’s private recreational choices, but I’m reasonably sure that any former Labour voters (a.k.a “Waitakere Man”) reading the HoS story would sadly shake their heads and mentally congratulate themselves for abandoning the party of their parents and grandparents. If I may paraphrase Bruce Springsteen in “My Home Town”:

    “Those votes are going, boys, and they ain’t coming back.”

    • Greg M

      ¬†Yep, I tend to agree Chris. I was a staunch Labour supporter back in the 80′s, and “I aint going back”. They have nothing to offer the average working man anymore, and that is not going to change anytime soon.

      • le sphincter

        I guess ‘borrow and hope’ rocks your boat now !¬†

        Add to that falling living standards, rising unemployment and a mad stampede for a brighter future in Australia.

        Sound like you have been hooked by the ‘cultural conservatives’ now you are¬†comfortably¬†off and can piss down the ladder at those starting out.

      • Greg M

         You really are a tosser Spink. I am operating a startup business, drawing for myself less than the dole every week, to try to improve my lot.
        As for “pissing down the ladder” the part time lady I am now employing takes home double what I do, so fuck you.
        Borrow and hope is what your dickhead labour mates want to do, not what the National led government is doing.

      • le sphincter

        Greg , I worry for cleaning ladies job, if your economic ability cant see that Bill English has a borrowing fetish that would make  the new french President swoon.
        he has to stick to around 4% of GDP for new borrowing or the panzers  will roll in again.
        Bill English – 8%

        BTW – since when did a startup need a cleaning lady ? Not got some elbows of your own ?

      • Greg M

         Spink, I am managing 196 apartments, all rented out. My retired accountant lady helps out with the mountains of paperwork involved, I am the cleaning lady.
        So what would Labour do? Borrow more, and take more off productive people and businesses and give more handouts to losers who contribute nothing.
        What’s your solution? Stop borrowing and cut “entitlements” ? That would suit me as well.

      • DJ

         So, Le Arsehole. You say above in a post that you own a business or run a business or something. How many people do you employ?

        If none, then is your business just a way for you to hide behind tax loop holes and trusts to rort the system?

        If you do have employees, I take it from your political stances I have seen on here, that you all have an equal share in your business and everyone takes home the same pay. You don’t have annual performance reviews and every year they get automatic pay rises and bonuses.

      • Ford

        you draw a wage for yourself less than the dole..you say you have a cleaning lady who earns twice what you get..but then say you have a woman helping with the paperwork and that you are the cleaning lady..i wonder what little tax scam you have got going on to shaft the govt you adore so much

      • Bunswalla

        What an illiterate tosser your are Ford. Read Greg’s post, he never mentions a cleaning lady. He said “the part time lady I am now employing”.

        It was your equally illiterate tosser mate the arsehole that introduced cleaning. I think that’s because he’s an arsewipe.

      • Greg M

        ¬†Ford, I didn’t say I had a cleaning lady, sphincter did.
        I am drawing $200 p.w. for me, my part time accountant lady is paid double that.
        I am paying PAYE for her, personal income tax plus provisional tax for me and company tax and ACC on what’s left.
        I do the cleaning because I can’t afford any more staff as yet.

      • Ford

        cumswalla..my humble apologies cunt..and you call sphincter an arsehole..pot kettle black ..fucken homo

      • Ford

        im not really fussed on your financial details..but id say youd be better off in the dole quwue next to me

      • Greg M

        ¬†Ford, I would probably be better off money wise, But I can’t describe the feeling at 2am when I leave the office and again when I open up in the morning. It is hugely satisfying bieng in control of your own life, not just making money for someone else. Back on topic, the Labour party which I supported for 15 years now tells me I’m a rich prick and wants to tax me even more. Fuck them. Also for most people, being unemployed is only temporary, keep at it and you will find a job. Cheers G.

      • TravisPoulson

        Ford: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphincter_ani_externus_muscle 

        There you go, you’ve learnt something today.¬†Sphincter¬†Literally is an arsehole.¬†

        No need to thank me, it was no trouble. google really IS your friend. 

      • DJ

        ¬†That’s the main problem with your ilk Ford. You have no pride.

        I would rather work for the minimum possible now to build up a business and hopefully be successful later.

        Greg is at least being a positive contribution to society.

        You on the other hand are stealing my oxygen, now fuck off.

    • Agent BallSack

      Camp Cunliffe, Chris?

    • Lofty

      I have abandoned the NZLP Chris, after a lifetime of REAL support, but I sure do not congratulate myself.

      I sincerely regret having to do so, I will not go back in my lifetime….This pile of garbage that poses as the NZLP parliamentary wing, will not sort itself out in the time I have left.

      Interestingly enough my son who was brought up living and breathing NZLP functions, clinics & meetings etc etc, also has goorrnn from the ranks, for all the reasons mentioned ad infinitum.

    • Guest

      Chris, I rarely agree with you but enjoy your thoughtful writing.
      I’ve never voted Labour and for the foreseeable future that wont change.
      I am a “Waitakere Man” – I’m not rich, not broke either, but working hard to pay a mortgage out west¬†and trying to get ahead in life, one slippery step at a time!
      When each payday rolls around the balance is getting pretty low thats for sure.
      I seem to fall in the group thats too “rich” for a handout, and too “poor” to structure my finances in any other way – the current “middle class” seem to be picking up the tab for both tax and rates spending.

      What do you think the answer is for Labour?

      Because “return to the roots” sounds simplistic, but is it realistic?
      The days of picket lines etc seem to be behind us – during the recent Ports/Affco issues, while some management actions left a bit to be desired, likewise the unionist response seemed completely out of touch and I felt pretty indifferent to it all.

      When I hear the likes of Andrew Little yelling and carrying on it does absolutely nothing for me.

      Shearer barely makes sense and gives the impression he runs focus groups at the local dementia home, such are the irrational “policies” he comes up with.

      I’m not a 110% disciple of the current government but by and large they seem to be far far more in touch with reality and the lives of “normal people” like me.¬†Not perfect by any means but nor are their policies causing me a lot of distress.

      While I’m not totally comfortable, I accept the case for asset sales and if Labour really wanted to bang on about it, how about a bit of honesty first that it is the likes of interest-free student loans and extended WFF that has put asset sales on the table?

      Probably over the last decade even, Labour seem to be trying to be everything to everyone – and sure when the good times were rolling they could do so, and had a lengthy reign because of it.

      But those times are gone, and if you advocate a “back to basics” approach – what does that cover, and more importantly, which of their “causes” falls off the wagon?

      Because with their current rash, kneejerk, scattergun approach I cant see anything but pain ahead for the likes of myself who will be left to pay for it all.

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        Guest – perfectly put.

        Chris Trotter – I think yes the tide has turned against Labour in part because of their rather massive transformation into what Guest has called a “rash, kneejerk [&] scattergun” party, but I don’t think it explains all of it.

        Left-wing ideology is a luxury and an ideal that only the rich can actually afford. The rest of the left-wingers are made up of students who are too young & silly to know any better (I was one of them!) and people who need the rich to pay for their choices. Without a doubt they are people who have never, an in many cases, will never know what it is like to pay more than $30k in tax & $7k in ACC levies as a self-employed person.

        In my experience left-wing politics is synonymous with idealism – an idealism that almost always expects those in the top tier of income to pay for (or at least the bulk of it anyway). The tax in the form of beer anecdote springs to mind (http://conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/a-beer-story-tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy/)

        So for me left-wing politics is something that is far easier to stomach when it is not you being taxed within an inch of your life as you struggle up the career ladder trying to earn enough money to pay off your student loan, buy a house that is no more than the average house price AND doesn’t need a whole heap of money spent on it, get married and have a child before your eggs or sperm dry up.

    • le sphincter

      Funny isnt it , that Waitakere man is a creation of the original Chardonnay Socialist.

      Their life view is now purely a demographic segment defined by :
      Lifestyle block.
      Quaffing Wine
      Finding the next ‘in ‘ restaurant- before everybody else ‘ruins it’

      You would need a vatican theologian to separate  CT from Karl du Fresne or Mike Moore

  • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

    I agree with BG above ^ – Labour lost its appeal to the Waitakere Man (and any blokey man as WO puts it) when they usurped Lange. I always found it interesting how much Lange disliked Clarke – and rightly so. I liked her assertiveness, but why did she have to be a man about it?

    I just don’t get why ones sexual preferences have to come into politics at all and I actually object to anyone displaying their sexuality in an overt way like the picture in question. It’s unnecessary and just adds fuel to the Christian fundamentalist’s (and any bigot’s) fire by implying that all gay men spend all their time in gay orgys.

    Blokey men can be gay just the same as feminine women can be lesbian yet Labour seems to just employ and appeal to 1) the heaving underclass (or however Cactus Kate describes them!) or 2) very camp boys/trannys and butch girls known to throw their toys out of the cot when things don’t go their way or someone says/does something they don’t like.

    So they have lost their appeal to the ordinary hardworking (gay, straight, bi of whatever nationality) who believes in JFK’s mantra¬†“Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”.

    I for one would like to know what it is they truly stand for – opposing everything the government does or says is not stating what it is you stand for – and what they plan to do about it.

    Politics just seems so wishy-washy these days with the ‘stand for nothing fall for anything’ kind of philosophy taking over like some kind of¬†insidious disease.

    • Ford

      i think being a politician is more about life style choices and personal acheivements  and what they can do for the country comes 2nd..free overseas trips and just about everything else you can think of..parliamentary credit card and accomodation rorts and all the scams they have going..some uncovered and some not i bet.power and control they have over a population telling others how they should live their lives while they live it up on the taxpayer..and in their retirements they can swap stories of what they have done for the country with little regard to how hard they have made it for the average citizen

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        Completely agree: I have always felt that integrity and credibility go out the back door the second they enter the front door of the Beehive. So I just vote for the ones who play the game the best and who bare some kind of semblance to the policies I believe should be in place. I also vote because they are doing a job that I could never do (ass kissing & sales just isnt my style)!

      • Guest

        ford it depends how you define “the average citizen”.

        to most of us – the average citizen is someone who works for their living, pays their bills, by and large obeys the law, and tries not to be a drain on the country in any respect.

        i¬†hate seeing people ripping off “the system” – be that via ongoing handouts at one end of the scale or by the same token, wealthy people fleecing the system via tax rorts..or, like you highlight, politicians ripping off the system too.

        you make some pretty inflammatory comments on here – and i know some of them are in jest, and some i find pretty funny.

        i get sick of hearing labour talk about “rich pricks” as if only one end of the scale is ripping off the system.

        at least the national government seems to be trying to address things at both ends – they are trimming handouts, but at the same time they’re closing a lot of tax loopholes for wealthy people – so surely they are doing more for “the average citizen”?

      • Ford

        Guest
        i pay my bills and by and large obey the law and i try not to be too much of a drain on society but thats the way it goes at the mo..theres bigger fish to fry than someone on the dole..i wonder what scam hasnt been uncovered yet..if labour at some time in the future get into power..they will play their own scammy games and as for national trying to sort out all the rorts..i could almost guarantee they wont sort out the ones they wish to keep..they will find new ways of collecting their ‘perks’ as do all govts and politicians/ppl in power..everyone has a price and money corrupts

      • Guest

        i wont quote a figure because i’ll probably get it wrong, but remember reading recently that tax collection from the upper brackets is the highest its ever been – based on Nationals commitment to tighten things up – despite that Labour still bleat about “National looking after their rich mates”.

        I was only raising the point that National are making efforts to lower costs/increase revenue across the board and any suggestion they are targetting a single group (eg beneficiaries) is plain wrong.

        and i dont think they have such a narrow focus as “someone on the dole” ford, but the collective value of many people receiving many handouts soon mounts up. history tells us that in the scheme of things their cuts have been pretty painless compared to eras gone by.

        i’m yet to see any form of proposal/policy from labour/Greens that they could navigate this recession any better.

      • Ford

        Guest..i dont complain/object to what i recieve..i think ppl on a benefit should be bloody thankful they get anything..i do well with what little i get because i dont smoke anything and i dont piss it up the wall like alot of others do..i wouldnt want any less but i dont mind not getting anymore
        and even benficiaries pay tax..i also pay child support

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        Guest: I think you might be referring to an article on Stuff back in March Рsee http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/budget-2012/6980746/Budget-2012-business-reaction

        They discuss how the tax changes (removing the top tier & closing some loopholes) is merely “playing with pennies” and that the top income earners are still paying a disproportionate amount.

        The top income earners are not paying as much, but instead of the top 10% paying 76% of the taxes collected & benefits paid, it is now the top 13% so the burden on the few has only shifted slightly.

        And yes I too get highly irritated by how successful Labour’s BS mantras of “National and their rich mates” or “tax cuts for the rich” has been and have ranted about that on my own blog plenty of times myself.

        But the reality is that the masses will see what they want to see. Thankfully many think this and have still voted National – largely because of how inept Labour have been. However, the Greens are the real threat and given their unofficial activist tendencies & extreme views – as illustrated by the likes of obyn Malcolm, if they gain more ground (despite being so obviously socialist, their ‘green’ label makes them trendy) we are in for a whole world of trouble.

        Ford re paying tax on a benefit – while I am anti welfare except for in cases where one is faced with circumstances completely beyond their control (which naturally precludes pregnancy & any addiction) I disagree with the benefits being taxed. It’s double dipping – just the same as tax on interest from savings, GST on rates etc etc

      • Guest

        Ford I’m not having a crack at you personally – by all you say you sound pretty conscientious and grateful for state support. I tip my hat to you.

        you’ve got to agree though that sadly not all beneficiaries share your values, and it pisses the working population off to see many people having life come a little too easily to them while we’re asll donig it tough¬†- just like it pisses us off to see people who are already well off trying to rort the system.

        On occasion though you put out some fairly inflammatory anti-National comments – which is of course your right – but just dont get too caught up in the sloganistic crap put out by the left – challenge them on their substance because its easy to go for soundbites.

        the more the left “policies” are scrutinised, the less they stack up. They oppose any cuts, but want the world – in todays climate, how does that work?

        The left remain convinced there is some big conspiracy theory going on, but in Key i see a guy who is pretty open, genuine and committed to changing the way NZ thinks, without causing too much pain to any one group. they accuse him of flip-flopping, but i see a guy who listens to the country and doesnt just force idealogy upon us – isnt that a good thing?

      • Ford

        Guest
        a more accurate description would be ‘anti-govt’..if it were labour id have a go about them too..they all play their games..as long as i have my bread and butter i dont really care who runs the country..theres always 2 sides to a story and whatever side one gives..ill give the other side..what i really detest with a vengeance is the sexist nature of our society but thats a whole new story..the biggest welfare scam i see is the DPB..id love to see that get the chop

      • Guest

        vote National in 2014 and you never know.

        but rest assured, if you vote left it will only go up!

  • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

    Greg M et al – best not to give the trolls oxygen. Just shut the door and let their ‘fire’ die out.

  • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

    oops meant to be reply to Guest above ^

  • Emperor

    Back to the post in question, if a National Party male was found topless with his head sniffing the crotch of ladies at a strip club, would we be saying he was merely celebrating his heterosexuality? No The Stranded would be calling for his head. Poofs are allowed to appear scantily clad engaging in dubious sexual practices. Double standard.

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