Kahui did it

ŠĒ• Stuff.co.nz

The Coroner has said that on the balance of probabilities that his belief is Chris Kahui is the one responsible for the death of Chris and Cru Kahui. Not only that he calls Chris Kahui a liar:

Evans finds that Chris Kahui was alone with his three-month-old sons for at least three minutes on the day they suffered their fatal injuries in 2006.

“The [coroners] court is satisfied . . . that the traumatic brain injuries suffered by Chris and Cru Kahui were incurred by them . . . whilst they were in the sole custody, care and control of their father,” he says.

His report also says: “The fact that there was a mixture of both old and fresh injuries affecting the twins is deeply disturbing and shows that the household environment in which they were being brought up was unsafe.”

The babies had been left alone with Chris Kahui, 21, by their mother, Macsyna King, on June 12, 2006, when she went to see her sister.

At Chris Kahui’s trial, it was suggested that Macsyna King could have been the one who injured the twins, but Evans concludes there is not “a skerrick of evidence” implicating her.

“Apart from being completely without evidential support, the theory is implausible,” he says.

  • maninblack

    yep- but we all new that..

    • Neil

      Not only that – we all KNEW it!!!

  • Johno1234

    I really hope Ian Binnie comes up with a similar statement re David Bain. 

    • le sphincter

      IT came up after the aquittal but nothing has happened since 2009 so I guess he has better things to do in Dunedin

  • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

    Aah the most important issue of the day – good stuff Whale, love how you are on of the few men that continues to target the child abusers.

    The whole family should have been prosecuted and imprisoned for keeping silent and for allowing 2 wee babies to be subjected to other (supposedly non life-threatening) injuries.

    Makes me sick that where the death or grievous bodily harm of a child is concerned, that anyone has the right to silence. They should all be compelled to speak up or all be imprisoned.

    And what makes me even more angry & repulsed is when the same group of people & their extended ‘whanau’ have the audacity to show love after the fact by way of huge tangi/toys etc on the graves…..where the hell was this love & appreciated for a precious life when they were alive.

    I love the way Maori have tangis, I love their Kapa Haka, love many things about their culture, but this insidious evil side of their culture (and yep it is their – PIs get lumped into this group but they arent the families behind these baby murders…..and Europeans are guilty of many things but beating babies & putting them in dryers is not one of them) and the fact that it continues to be tolerated makes me sick. It undermines their credibility in terms of so-called mana over our land and it most certainly undermines respect me (european descent) like me would otherwise have.

    So where to from here? He’s kept silent this long so unlikely to confess. And what about the other older injuries? Why cant the police prosecute the lot of them for failing to provide the necessities of life? Not sure about the new laws & whether they will stop this kind of thing, but I for one am so sick of NOTHING changing – it’s like all the deaths since Baby C in 1987 have been for nothing.

    It’s disgusting that we allow this to continue. We need to get brutal with these people – first stop welfare as money always talks (re article……mother’s half brother only one out of I assume 8 adults that had a JOB!).

    11 people in one house…a classic example that silly man behind Inside NZ Poverty tried to use as way to gain sympathy. It didnt & wont work. It just makes me wild.

    • Paddles83

       

      Agree with everything you written….I suggest the Maori party and the
      Police should take some responsibility as well for their soft glove approach.

       

      The Police should have walked into that house and charged everyone with
      murder then you would have seen wee birdies fall out of the tree and chirp that
      didn’t want to be charged.

    • GregM

       Absolutely agree. Every single person in that house is responsible for the death of those babies. They all should have been prosecuted.

    • Polish_pride

      Again Coral Burrows and Steve Williams …
      And again Poverty is always a common (I believe) contributing factor in all of these cases.

      • GregM

         Rubbish. Poverty has nothing to do with it. Some of the most loving and caring people I know are flat broke.

      • Phar Lap

        ¬†“Poverty” FFS¬† there were 11 people in the ¬† murder¬† house drawing a taxpayer funded benefit.

      • gazzaw

        Bullshit it’s poverty. These fuckers were rolling in taxpayer-provided cash & benefits. My parents knew poverty in the¬†Depression years when there was almost nothing in the way of welfare. Didn’t stop their parents providing food, shelter and a lot of love. No one, repeat no one in NZ today knows anything about true poverty. ¬†The only poverty that exists in these families is a poverty of compassion¬†accompanied by¬†a¬†surfeit of ignorance.

      • Phar Lap

        ¬†To make your stupid claim,even more stupid.An alcohol fueled party raged in the murder house for at least a week.How many” Poverty” stricken people can do that.

      • Polish_pride

        GregM, Phar Lap – Look you can stand their waving a placard or shouting from the roof tops it shouldn’t happen, its¬†wrong,¬†It needs to stop.
        Everyone knows this. Everyone has been doing this for a couple of decades now. But unfortunately It doesn’t stop it.
        If you are really interested in ensuring no more children are killed, then you need to look a little deeper and find the contributing factors so you can change them, be aware of them and actually stop it happening.    

        If you don’t think Poverty has anything to do with it explain why poverty is common¬†in every single one of these cases without exception, because whether you like it or not it is! ¬†

        Lets be crystal I am¬†not saying poverty caused this….. but a contributing factor along with others, I most definitelty think it is. The question needs to be why is it?¬† Why is it a contributing factor and what other factors are almost always present also.

        Greg – Your example should be used in determining the answer to this. Why is it that there are thousands of families in poverty that don’t kill their kids.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†
        Why Why Why….?

        Why do they all seem to be 6 years old or younger? Why?

        Unless you are prepared to take a good hard look and understand what it is that causes a problem you don’t have a very good chance of being able to fix it and this is one that needs to be fixed!¬†

      • GregM

        ¬†PP, Maybe it’s because the people who are doing this are SHITBAGS.
        That is why they also usually have no job and no respect for any one or any thing. Pouring more money at them only enables them to party harder, like this lot did.

      • Polish_pride

        Phar Lap РOk great Alcohol 
        Corral Burrows  РDrugs
        Look at all the other cases and see if Drugs (after all Alcohol is one of the worst drugs when you account for its effect on society). were a factor also either before or during the time that the child/children were killed.

        But before you jump in and say it rules out poverty – Name all the middle income and upper income families that have killed their children…….

          

      • Polish_pride

        Then Gazzaw – perhaps you should¬†look up the definition of ‘poverty’.

      • Mr Sackunkrak

        Oh here we go, alleging “poverty” is the first step in socialising responsibility for the actions of these arseholes.¬† You know, its society’s fault, colonialism or whatever soft-cock excuse you want to use.

        At the end of the day one of the arseholes under that roof killed the children, and we had a pretty good idea which one it was.  That is where blame begins and ends.

      • Polish_pride

        GregM – “SHITBAGS”………. – interesting but ultamately not likely to help in solving the problem.

        ‘No Job and No respect’ however, these could¬†definitely be factors.
        Steve Williams also had no job so again look at all the other cases.. Was no job also a factor in those cases too? If so add it to the list.
        No respect – this ones a little harder to determine up front for the purpose of identifying¬†‘at risk situations’ – But I do think that this is a key factor just personally.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†

      • Polish_pride

        Mr Sacknkrak – No actually it is more about looking a little deeper into the causes and not being afraid to face up to the cold hard reality that is at the end of the day killing children in our midst.
        Read the rest of the posts it is clear that many live in poverty and don’t kill there children. But poverty seems to be a factor whether you like it or not.
        Think of it like this – if you were¬†tasked with going and studying this to find out why it is happening to stop it, would you go and study families from middle income New Zealand where it isn’t¬†happening?¬†¬†Or families in poverty where it is!¬†

      • Phronesis


        Q: Can someone who has no self respect have respect for others..”¬†

        More to the point is can you stop someone who has nothing to lose from behaving like an idiot. They have “nothing to lose” not because they have nothing but because they have never earned anything. They know the state will keep them in booze and fags regardless of how they behave and at worst they will get some time in the big house with their mates watching the big screen TV.¬†

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        PP it isnt poverty that is the driver behind these child abuse cases, it is the lack of value the useless egg & sperm donors place on their offsprings lives. An attitude enabled by a welfare system that hands out other people’s money unconditionally with no concept of social responsibility as one would expect under a social contract.

        Most people that are struggling to make ends meet do not bash or molest their kids. Most people are trying to be good parents but who continue, in my view, to make bad choices (have more kids etc).

        The % of people that abuse their children either physically or sexually is very small, but that % is primarily responsible for most of the abuse.

        So canning welfare isnt the only answer (even if I sometimes indicate it is!). We need someone somewhere somehow to teach people that children are more than a meal ticket, they are a privilege, not a right & most importantly that they are incredibly vulnerable.

        But how do you teach people a value that most of us take for granted? I honestly dont know and in fact, I don’t think anyone knows – otherwise 25 years after Baby C we wouldn’t still be seeing this abuse.

        The ads on TV have been good but I think this has to be coupled with zero tolerance approach – I am all for allowing one unplanned pregnancy, but if you harm or stand by and allow someone else to harm that child then you get de-sexed like the dog you are. I honestly cant see how anything other than a nazi type approach will stop these intergenerational welfare families treating their children worse than they would a stray dog.

        In terms of Steve Williams – pretty harsh to group him in with the same offenses. He had anger issues but Coral had not been subjected to abuse, instead she was ¬† a victim of a p-fueled rage that went well out of control. That case was particularly sad as he showed more remorse than most know (I know because I know some of the staff that worked with him when he got arrested). What annoyed me the most is that the gang bastards in prison at the same time as WIlliams for rape & God knows what else, used to yell out “hang yourself Williams” as if they somehow had the moral highground. Given they were part of dysfunctional family structures like the Kahui/King mix they were in no place to judge.

      • AzaleaB

        I grew up poor in West AKL.¬†Poverty made us a tight and loving family who appeciated the small things. I remember one year we gave money to World Vision and had a king size bar of chocolate as our Christmas treat instead of presents.¬†Even presents were often hand made.¬†The contributing factor is upbringing and family values….and love.

      • Polish_pride

        Phronesis- You def have a good point there. It  could also be woth looking at whether the alleged offenders have a criminal record. This could be one of the key differences/indicators that might explain why this always happens to low income families below the poverty line but that it does NOT happen with most families.
        Gazzaws family for example….¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        AzaleaB – I think it is fair to say that most of us grew up poor! We were a white middle class family yet we had no money – not really. Sure we got to do a couple of extra caricular activities etc, but mostly our family life was very basic. We always had food in our tummies, clothes on our backs & a dry roof over our heads but this was largely because we had a huge vege garden & my dad built our house! And we did cheap things – lots of camping, tramping, fishing & bush walks. No ski trips or overseas holidays for us! And we didnt have a TV – not until I was nearing the end of school anyway. Life was cheap & it was simple. Something I try to embody in my own family (I say as my child home sick is watching a Barbie DVD!).

        I remember a time when I vacummed the car & forgot to plug the freezer back in – ruining a whole winters worth of food mum had preserved & meat we had been given…..food that was precious because Dad had been laid off. yet did we get beaten? No. Did we miss out – probably in terms of treats, but we still got fed, still got loved.

      • Polish_pride

        Unsolicitedious – Agreed but it doesn’t explain why it only happens in low income households. And yes 7 people in¬† a house – they save on rent and¬†power. Food well you still have to feed the seven people so they would still end up low income.

        If you want to take poverty out of the equation as many here do. Then find some examples of Middle and upper income families where this has happened and we can. Until then if you actually want a shot at solving the problem one day…it needs to stay in.

        The anger management issues is another factor that needs to be added to the list of potential contributing factors.

        The thing is you first need to figure out if you (everyone) wants no more children killed in this manner or whether they don’t really care as it gives them something to cry fowl about every time it happens (stupid comment on purpose btw).
        Obviously no one wants this to continue.  

        For the record, in my book – Poverty is poverty.¬†I don’t believe in¬†child poverty¬†vs family poverty.
        The best example I have heard for being below the imaginary poverty line is

        ‘Not being able to afford to supply the necessities of life all of the time.’

        Don’t worry families that spend¬†their money on alcohol and cigarettes¬†don’t fall into this category in my book.
        But likewise yes some people in this country are in a stte of poverty despite people in countries overseas having less.    

        So you have as possible common factors:
        No Job
        Drugs
        Anger Management issues
        Criminal record
        Lack of respect
        Children under 6 (?)
        and Poverty  

        And yes Coral Burrows is a very sad case and one of the reasons I am a hyppocrite when it comes to drug laws.
        Cannabis – legal (and compulsory for people commenting on Whale Oil :)
        P Рillegal  

      • Polish_pride

        AzaleaB – I don’t know how old you are but you are wise beyond your years :)

      • Timboh

        You say poverty¬† “is common¬†in every single one of these cases without exception”. Leaving¬†aside what poverty means, you then go on to say it is a contributing factor. I assume you infer that because they are on the benefit, they are in poverty. How about turning it on its head and saying that the type of people who would do this are on the benefit “without exception” because they are feral, brutish people and too lazy or stupid to get a job. Therefore they put themselves into your “poverty” which is just an effect caused by their root problem. So even if you gave them four times the handout they are currently getting these deaths would still happen.

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        PP interesting. re “Don’t worry families that spend¬†their money on alcohol and cigarettes¬†don’t fall into this category in my book.¬†” – well that pretty much means we are saying the same thing as all those poor families paying 1x rent for 7 x benefits of at least $200 net per week would, without question, spend our money on booze & smokes….guaranteed. I dont know about you, but I have seen plenty of these homes first hand & despite the stench, lack of cleanliness & apparent poverty, there is always empty bottles, smokes & a big TV in the corner. Makes me sick.

        The other thing I feel I need to correct you on is your apparent assumption that these kinds of crimes only happen in the low socio-economic groups of NZ.

        Sure white middle & upper class dont beat their kids then fail to take them to a doctor & instead stuff them into a dryer, but they do beat their kids. They may not starve them of food, nice bed & good clothes, but they starve them of their time, they emotionally & verbally abuse them and they sexually abuse them. Problem is these kids never get to make it to the OECD stats as it is never or rarely reported.

        What we need in NZ, as said before, is an absolute zero tolerance to all forms of abuse…while on a completely different scale, I find it abhorrent and abusive that someone would have a baby then dump them off to childcare 3 months later so as to preserve their job, income or standard of living (which is more often than not beyond what is necessary). I just cant see how anyone who does that can honestly look themselves in the mirror & say they are a good parent. If it was an accidental pregnancy (your first!) and you had a job that paid more than the DPB then fair enough but for most I dont think this is the case at all.

        Modern NZ I feel has tried to move so far away from the patriarchal/authoritarian family structure of old that it has gone in the completely opposite direction where there is no family structure & children are seen as either a sign to show you are doing well/evidence of status (I read somewhere that the middle classes now have 3 kids on average, that it’s the new trend as prove you are doing well financially & really capable/organised) or as purely a meal ticket for you to piss, smoke or gamble away.

      • Polish_pride

        Unsolicitedious – I agree with you that there are abuses at other levels of the socio economic scale but what we were specifically trying to solve is kids being killed by thier parents or care givers.

        On Parents starving their children of their time or sending their kids to day care
        I wholeheartedly disagree with these practices also and agree they are not good for the children in those families.
        Unfortunately many families see no other way to ‘get ahead’ without working the extra hours or having both parents working and dropping their children off at child care so that they are able to do this. But like it or not this is one of the many¬†problems of the current system and of ‘Man’ needing to work for ‘it’ to survive¬†and having a family to support and wnt to provide a loving stable home for I imagine would be a very strong driver.

        Ask yourself this If a healthy loving strong family relationship is so important (and I can think of nothing more important) Then why is society and the system not geared towards ensuring that this happens? Why is the number one indicator for any country GDP!?!  

        I also agree¬†the sexual, verbal, emotional and physical abuse all happen and shouldn’t.¬†

        But if you want to solve these problems you need to have a system that supports ‘the family’ and places¬†no greater importance than on the individual and what they should have a right to. Healthy safe home and loving family should be at the top of the list.

        We live in a (socialist) capitalist system that operates in an international market – what is the number one thing in capitalism?

        This system does not put the family first. To do what you are saying (and I agree a family should do) you are almost going against what the system encourages people to do. This is a significant flaw. While this environment exists so to will many of the problems.
        Ask this who is more likely to abuse a child. The parent in a stable healthy¬†family that has developed a proper healthy loving relationship with his/her kids or the parent who is working long hours and doesn’t get to develop a healthy stable loving relationship to the degree they should do with their kids….¬†¬†¬†¬†
          ,  .   

      • Polish_pride

        Timboh Рthe same arguement can be made for Benefits as can be made for Poverty i.e. not everyone on a benefit kills their kids. This is why I say it is a contributing factor among others.
        That said if you wanted to argue that angle a better approach would be to pose the question РDoes being on a benefit enable a person to have a healthy loving and stable family? Immediately (depending on how long they have een on a benefit) you can argue that it is not a good role model for the kids and then you can argue that this is why we have third generation benefit families now. and so on. 

      • Pukakidon

         Bullshit there is no excuse for this cowardly act.

      • gazzaw

        Believe me I know what poverty means PP. I don’t need to look it up in the dictionary but maybe the pinkoes who¬†use the word as the political ‘flavour of the week’ should.

      • Polishpride

        No Puka whats bullshit is retards who cry fowl and complain about shit left right and centre but aren’t prepared to spend any mental capacity figuring out why it keeps happening time and time again. And before anyone comes up with another BS whinge on this topic stop and think does your BS whinge get us any closer to stopping kids being killed.

      • Polishpride

        Gazzaw – Maybe they should.. Maybe all Politicians should. In fact Maybe they should give up there big fat pay checks and their ridiculous payrises that are wayyyyy out of step with everyone else in the economy and go and live below the poverty line for a few weeks.

    • AzaleaB

      Amen  and well said -  one of the best posts I have read ( and saved me a tonne of typing to say exactly the same thing).Thx.

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        Thanks & re typing….at least you now know what I have the blog name I have! :-)

    • BG

      Totally Agree.

      The only maori I seen speaking out¬†was that brave woman in Ngarawahia, who was branded a ‘Nark’ becuase she dared to speak to police.

      I was born and rasied in Rotorua, I admire many things about the moari culture but their (and it is their) disgusting attitude around child abuse is a tragedy and an embarassment.

      Who are their leaders? Their silence is deafening.

      The Coroners Report also highlights the poor justice system we have. We have a confrontational court room, with the us vs them attitude. All I want from a justice system is the truth, and how come the coroner can be pretty much certain of the¬†facts yet a 6 week trial discovers nothing? They should get the lot of them for ‘failing to provide the nessesities of Life’ and see how they fair in prison.

      • Pr1033

        ¬†Cameron , can you start a post entitled “Maori Leaders Comment On Kahui Ruling ” and send an email invitation to all of them to post their opinions ?

    • Notrotsky

      Aye, I felt physically ill when this case first occurred and it still makes me feel ill, sad and angry in equal measure.

      It’s incumbent on all of us to speak up whenever we are aware of bullying or abuse happening and to hold the bullies, abusers and murderers to account.

    • Random66

      Unsolicitedious – I’m starting to really like you :)¬† Our children are my heart and soul and words just can’t express how much respect I have for any parent who worries, grieves and aches for a sick child in hospital.¬† We had a glimpse of this recently with¬†our daughter who is very sick.¬† All I know is I would kill for my children and I would die for them.¬† I will never, never understand how any parent can be so emotionally disconnected from their child as to take the very life that most parents would sell their soul to save.

  • Greg

    Whole thing is very sad.

  • Blokeintakapuna

    Yep – if Kahui was a Pakeha and not Maori – the police and judiciary would not have been so ” PC soft” on the family as they all elected to remain silent over these deaths.

    Complete shame for the deaths – but even worse is the loss of Mana for the entire Kahui Iwi and Whanau – where are the Maori protesters pouring scorn on this violent Whanau?

    Where are the Maori Elders launching nationwide Hikoi’s to stop these on-going, numerous Maori¬†murders of their innocent babies?

    What steps are the Elders outlining to Whanau to stop this?

    Where is the outrage from Maori over their complete loss of Mana when the wider Iwi collude to cushion, hide and sweep this kind of abuse away from publicity – without doing anything real to stop it. Silence is not an effective deterant!

    Ignoring it and encouraging “warrior men” will only prolong the missery this kind of culture creates. Cultures grow, morph, adapt and grow over time. It’s about time the “warrior culture” was flushed away and a new culture was encouraged by the Elders.

    If Maori culture can adapt to using mobile phones, technology, and the very best of Westernised, European, modern day gadgets – then surely Maori culture can adapt to naming, shaming and humiliating wanton murderers and liers in thier midst…

    Change must start at the top…

    • gazzaw

      BiT, I wonder how different the police investigation approach would have been under had it been under Peter Marshall’s watch.

    • chickenmilford

      If there was a Hikoi – I’m sure it would get support from ALL New Zealanders and be the most successful hikoi of them all. ¬†It would certainly send a message that child abuse and murder are NOT OK and that it disgusts everyone – regardless of race.

    • Pukakdion

       The Maori are not and have never been some sort of mythical warrior race.  They begged Britain to create a treaty in the 1840s because New Zealand was at the time the hell hole of the pacific and the poor old Maori were getting their butts kicked by the Whalers and all sorts of migrants.  England did not want to have anything to do with NZ because they were spread throughout the world.   The treat was only offered in order to protect the Maori from being wiped off the face of the earth.

      They are a very cowardly people if they continue to allow this sort of scum to behave like this.¬† The main difference is that if this had have been a Pakeha family then they would have outed the perpetrator because this is not a part of anyone’s culture including those cultures from the East ¬†

      This scum family who hide behind so called Maori cultural values thereby allowing this to continue are subhuman and vermin.

      If this is Maori culture then they are a weak and deviant people who have not made any progress since England had to come to the rescue them from the the Whiteman in the 1840s.

       

  • Phar Lap

    When Ian Wishart produced a book on the whole sorry affair.All the gullible  public just about threatened to hang him.For days talkback callers went over the top,even some book shops refused to sell the book.Now Gary Evans the coroner,seems to be saying the same things as Ian,who got castigated for telling it like it was.Gary Evans ,a good man gets exalted,for saying the same things.Chris Kahui was the child murderer of his offspring.He has beaten the system.

  • le sphincter

    What nonsense from the Coroner. 
    He didnt run a trial, he just listened to a rehash of the police evidence. Of course that is going to say Kahui did it.

    How many hours and millions did it cost  to run this ineffectual exercise ? Surely there is a backlog of deaths where there is no formal trial.

    • AzaleaB

      You really are incessant naysayer and moaner. Never a solution – always a problem or complaint. A real Mr Positivity!

    • Polish_pride

      Perhaps you should direct your concerns to the Coroner. I’m sure he’ll be more than happy to entertain you and explain whether or not that is in fact¬† what he did. ¬†

    • Bunswalla

      What a complete cock you are. The Coroner conducted an inquisitorial investigation i.e. his job was to find out what happened. In our adversarial “justice” system the team with the best lawyer wins, and the accused doesn’t have to give evidence. Kahui gave evidence at the inquest, which the Coroner found to be untruthful, evasive, inconsistent, and basically a pack of lies.

      Just like if Bain was compelled to give evidence at his retrial, the lying murderer would still be rotting in jail today. But the tax-payer funded Uncle Joe to get their own experts from the UK who had never examined the evidence, to look at pictures of it and offer “expert” opinions that enabled Bain’s lying lawyer to create enough doubt that the soft-cock bleeding heart jurors let him off. But don’t get me started on Bain.

      • le sphincter

        its called ‘ beyond reasonable doubt’

        Good to see todays juries are influenced by CSI, and they can see a case with no evidence a mile away

    • Ronnie Chow

       He interviewed Chris Kahui , face to face . A liar spoke back .

  • tarkwin

    I’m waiting for a comment from the Maori party on this. They’re probably too busy chasing evil cigarette salesmen and rain drops to worry about minor things like child bashing.

    • Phar Lap

       If they did that,the whole Maori house of cards would collapse,or erupt.There would be flash hakas in anger berating the truth,and would be in denial,just like the who dunnit Kahui Murders.

      • tarkwin

        Gotta keep that brown gravy train running, all Maori are victims of colonial oppression etc etc etc. Outrage and indignation are much easier and more financially rewarding than actually doing something about the problem. I think the picture of Tariana in her beret with the loo roll emblem on it doing her Once Were Warriors impersonation says it all.

  • Cows4me

    Obviously the twins deaths¬†were caused¬†because the evil government only pays pittance in welfare and¬†only had about 7 support agencies within a K of the¬† Kahui house. I suggest we have a commission of inquiry and publish several reports on the matter. No doubt CYFS, the families commission, the wimmins commission and all¬†possible commissions that could have any possible relevance to the case¬†receive¬†large amounts of extra cash.¬†Personally I think it’s way pass time we kick the liberal way to the curb but I shan’t hold my breath.

  • Grandstream

    Dont forgte to brace yourself for the comments from Hone Harawira/John Hadfield & Sue Bradford……let me guess…….all the¬†Pakeha’s fault, no-one with a brwon face coudl be repsonsible for this, move on, real story is the water rights being stolen by the John Key government, and thyat the national party need police to protect themselves form well behaved protester……Tui Billboard, here we come !

    • Grandstream

      And, well done WO for postign this…..MSM have been so focussed on playing the quote from¬†Kahui’s parasites lawyer, Lornaie Smith (?)¬†that Kahui objects to teh report in the most strenous manner….what the fuck !¬† Does the taxpayer still pay that cow for speaking for that child killer ?

      • gazzaw

        Some people will do anything for a living GS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bluebellenz1 Linda Reid

    This tragedy was the result of poverty Рbut not poverty of money. Poverty of spirit, of dreams, of decency and of basic honesty. Poverty of self respect, of respect for others and of self discipline. 

    Throwing free money at people actually makes that kind of poverty worse – not better.¬†Where’s the self respect in getting money for nothing? Where’s the self discipline in not having a job? Where’s the hopes, dreams and ambition if you don’t have to do anything, and can’t see (or have given up even trying to see) a way forward and up?¬†

    • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

      Completely agree!!!

    • GregM

       Absolutely spot on Linda.

  • Phar Lap

    @p p .Stick to the facts mister.Gary Evans is talking the Kahui twins murder,  so are most of us,   thats the bottom line.If you want to talk about other facts and figures other than the Kahui murders,check out the Statistics Department.

    • Polishpride

      Yeah thats awesome -you do that. Then when the next children are killed you can come on and go why oh why does this keep happening… and for the next kid and the next and so on. Geezuz people wake up. How many kids does it take before you figure out Govt doesn’t have an answer, Maori don’t have an answer, And your venting over it does not provide an answer unless you try to figure out the causes, the common denominators . ¬†

      • Lion_ess

        They could start by discouraging breeding with cousins – there’s a reason why everyone is called “aunty”. ¬†That way, children would have two distinct families upon which to model their behaviour. ¬†They could discourage teenage girls from falling pregnant multiple times to different fathers, by stopping the funding for them to do so. ¬†They could educate the parents that their children’s education is important, so children do not become substitute parents to their brothers and sisters while dead-beat ma and pa party/or get over the hangover, to name a few .. ¬†I don’t agree with your comment “Maori don’t have an answer”, the answers are there, they’re just not very pretty to talk about

  • Steve (North Shore)

    Once Were Warriors.
    Yeah Right

    • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

      No actually I think they were. Maori were not always a race that picked on their most vulnerable. They were a proud warrior race. I think Joseph Savage & subsequent governments who have continued to enable their weaknesses share some of the blame as now we see a race that seems to always play the victim – despite scholarships, separatist party funding, separate schools, special language weeks & never take responsibility for their own lives, education, values & choices. In a country like NZ there is no excuse to not have a high school qualification or have children that walk to school shoeless in the freezing cold with nothing but red soup (left over water from boiled cheerios) in their tummies from dinner the night before.

      So many young maori seem to have so little respect for themselves, others and the beauty of their culture – rather than embody what whanau really means (which is beautiful btw), they instead take on the abuse & violence evident in that awful film Once Were Warriors.

  • Bunswalla

    I see the (in my mind, equally culpable) mother of these two unfortunates has spoken triumphantly of “getting justice” – Bullshit. You didn’t get justice for the lives of the two babies you neglected, all that happened was the Coroner said you didn’t administer the fatal injuries. If there was justice their killer would be in jail for a long time, and you’re just as guilty of neglect and being a really shit parent as your murdering former partner.

  • Notrotsky

    FFS this woman just doesn’t get it.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7342440/Coroner-blames-Chris-Kahui-for-twins-deaths

    “The lawyer for Macsyna King, the twins’ mother, said today her client felt the coroner’s findings ”have completely exonerated her”.

  • Tookinator

    ¬†As the coroner has now said on the ‘balance of probabilities’ Chris did it. why doesn’t someone take out a private civil prosecution?¬†in the civil court he would more likely be found guilty as it has a lower threshold than the criminal courts. Remember not long ago a private citizen took Trevor Mallard to court (and won) for assaulting Tau henare and the complainent wasn’t even there but read about it in the news!

    • Blokeintakapuna

      Maori & Mana Party could and should take Civil action then – show some leadership…

      • Pukakdion

         This is where they need to go back to tribal justice. 

    • Polishpride

      Yes that same idiot is now before the court on a charge of Blackmail

  • unitedtribes

    As with the earlier post about “civilian action to attacks” There may be a case here for people to take action. Obviously the police and justice system has failed us. I think that Civilians should give Kahui a hard time. Something that would make his live harder than if he were in prison. Guess Im also an arshole for even thinking this but it is what I think and if I had the chance I would.

  • Lion_ess

    There’s an inter-generational problem of “babies for benefits”.¬†¬†When this¬†government stops paying these lazy dumbos to breed, there won’t be as many unwanted babies.¬†Mostly¬†these kids are unwanted except for the welfare $’s they provide to their parents.¬† I’m not aware of any of these bashed, murdered children coming from homes where they¬†were financially supported from their parents/carers own incomes

    • Lion_ess

      On second thoughts – they should be paid to not breed ..

    • gazzaw

      When she sprang triplets it must have been like winning Powerball.

  • Harry Young

    It’s time to end the murderer’s escape route, the ‘right to silence.’

  • Super_Guest

    There’s no poverty in NZ. If you want to see real poverty go to Africa. I’m sure the people there would love a free house an a couple hundred dollars a week courtesy of the taxpayers.

     

    • Polishpride

      Are you serious – do actually understand what poverty means. It’s not simply about how poor you are ¬†

  • Mr_Blobby

    Poverty had nothing to do with the situation. The whole family are welfare bludgers and criminals. Yes criminals the whole lot of them.
    There was no indication of a shortage of money for food, drink, drugs. These people were, and still are,  living a good lifestyle with benefits, subsidized housing and proceeds from crime.
    Everyone living in that house should have been charged with something.
    Where are Maori and Mana now always on about the proud and Noble warriors and how hard done they are.

  • Phar Lap

    The Nats wanted the so called “Right to Silence” tactic explored at a select committee on law and order.Guess what?it was blocked by the anti-family Party.The Red/Greens.That is no surprise,as everything Clark and her¬† social engineering ,gaggle of gays voted for,the Red/Greens rubber stamped it.That shower of sick ***** are still operating ,with their misleading mealy mouth actions on all things common sense,which would and should make¬† NZ a¬† better place to live in.

  • Phar Lap

    The latest news on the Kahui miscarriage of justice,for the murdered twins ,and the coroners comments are,Kahui might be charged with the murders again.

    • le sphincter

      Cannot happen . Repeat Cannot. Even if he confessed , even if he  provided new pictures of himself doing  it as new evidence. The law allowing retrials in some cases only applies after this  happened

      • Phar Lap

         Could be correct,except there are other ways of getting legal justice.Lets wait and see before we all once more become bush lawyers.

    • Phar Lap

       The Maori Party have just made a news release.asking all NZ to help prevent another tragedy happening,like the Kahui Twins Murder. FFS,why dont they direct their plea to their own Whanau .Seems  all NZ has had a hand in the Kahu Murders, if we follow the Maori Party logic.

  • MikeR

    I saw Chris Kahui at the Loyd Ellesmere Pool in the School Holiday’s sitting in the Kids Paddling Pool Sunday week, with his new lady ( I thought about pushing his head under the water for an hour, but the new women was not pretty, so I know he is suffering.)
    Pool reopens¬† ( it’s going through it’s maintenance programme for the next two weeks ) on Monday 31st, if anyone feels inclined to give him free diving lessons in August..

    • gazzaw

      Is the high diving tower still operating Mike?

      • MikeR

        ¬†That pools empty over winter, but it shouldn’t matter too much jumping from the high board, should it.

  • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

    I just watched the Macysna King’s interview on Campbell Live. While interesting in terms of hearing how much she did in fact assist the police¬†& how well the twins were doing in their early stages post neo nates, what I don’t understand is why John failed to ask her about the old injuries. Also interesting he didnt call Marie D on the whole silent thing -¬†(Macysna may not have been silent but the rest of her family was. The police came out & said so so hardly a myth!
    Ok she loves her kids & she did her best to provide for them. But she wasnt a new Mum and should have known instantly when her children had been hurt.As a mother I have always known instantly when my child is not well & checked things out if in doubt. This is what good mums do.Sure she acted promptly post the injuries that killed them, but why didnt she act when they suffered earlier injuries?¬†There is no way these are accidental…unless a one-off incident can be proven, babies just do not get bruises & fractures.¬†When our girl was 9 months old I put her on the change table to put a bootie back on her. Only did so because I was holding her & didnt think to strap her down. Next minute she is on the floor hands & knees.I immediately called healthline – despite no injuries. She was actually fine, just a brief cry out of fright then happy as larry. But I called all the same….sobbing as any new Mum would!So of course I get no one, no mother can be perfect, but for babies to die with old injuries that have not been tended too – I’m sorry, but that is negligent and she should be held to account.Love and doing the right thing in terms of providing a duty of care are not the same thing. They should be, but they are not.The Coroner stated quite clearly “The fact that there was a mixture of both old and fresh injuries affecting the twins is deeply disturbing and shows that the household environment in which they were being brought up was unsafe.”So for her to claim she has now been exonerated & unfairly persecuted (which perhaps in many ways may be the case re the death threats etc – pretty awful as I dont believe in vigilantism whatsover), makes her delusional.The point she misses is that she failed in her duty of care to keep them safe before they suffered the fatal injuries. She had an opportunity to do something about what appeared to be ongoing abuse and missed it.¬†All I hope is that she has learned from this. That she now ensures each & every child is absolutely safe & free from any harm at the hand of others.¬†And rather than playing the victim I think the best thing for her to do is to ensure her own children ¬†dont grow up to be abusers & further that she starts to do something about this issue herself in ¬†her wider community – starting with her fucked up whanau.

    • Lion_ess

      Blub – blub get a bucket – how many kids does she have again – and where are they all, how many different fathers? ¬†How many days were the children in neo-natal and how many times did she visit them again? ¬†32 days they were in hospital and had 11 visits if I recall correctly. ¬†I accept she did not inflict the blows that killed the babies, but Macsyna King is one fucked up individual, producing more fucked up individuals. ¬†Do us all a big favour Macsyna – don’t have any more.

  • sonz

    what bugs me is now Ms King is out saying see it wasnt me!! you all need to owe me an apoloogy (more or less)… but here’s the thing.. there were OLD injuries as well as new.. this wasnt a one time moment of terror event.. this was these twins daily life and she stood by and let this happen.. she may not have caused the physical harm but she is an enabler.. by allowing her man to be more important than her kids..and how he oh so showed his love…not only did he kill those babies.. he basically threw her under the bus to save his butt.. must be true love aye..¬†

  • Mediaan

    Poverty is a ridiculous thing to say. Deprivation ditto.

    There were thousands of benefit dollars going into that house every week, as it seems. Too much money, plentiful adult social company. A group of people living in the most privileged circumstances in the world, in a privileged country.

    Try Bangladesh Desh or Togo or parts of

    Probable cause? The small children started to be seen as an unfair barrier to enjoying the good times that the house-mates were enjoying.

  • Mediaan

    What’s that about there being a worker present in the house regularly? Hadn’t caught up with that one.

    One thing that does stick in my mind is an early media mention of links to Labour Party type heroes of Bastion Point. That, coupled with the Police being super-respectful of the family’s rights, made me worry about political interference.

  • Mediaan

    Final comment. If benefits did not increase with greater numbers of children, would they have allowed those very handsome little boys to be adopted out to willing parents?

    I reckon, yes.

  • Patrick

    SOCKS
    Some Other C****’s Kids

    How many of these crimes are committed by men that are not the biological fathers of the victims?
    Drugs & Alcohol – yes these contribute massively but the way girls are breeding with each & every male that crosses their path (mainly to collect the DPB) has to be a huge contributer to this issue.
    & before someone jumps in & accuses me of blaming the mothers – bullsh1t the person that kills the kid is soley to blame but I cannot help but wonder what the impact on the kids is when their mother breeds & each child has a different father, the male in the house is not the father of some or any of them. Has to be a contribuing factor.
    Cut or limit access to the DPB, it was never intended to be abused like it currently is.

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