Labour to abolish private schools?

It could be a distinct possibility, especially when Jordan Carter, a member of Labour’s governing council and the most senior member of their policy council talks out loud on Facebook about abolishing private schools:

  • Will

    It is unlikely they could do such a stupid thing, but it’s an interesting peek into the mindset of these people. Don’t like something…abolish it! The mentality of a clenched fist.

    • Sean_kearney

      Yes just like little Johnny Keys abolishing state assets in spite of the fact that over 70% of the population are opposed to the notion. 

  • Markm

    where would labour get the billions of dollars to build the new school and pay the cost of the thousands of students , who currently pay for their own education.
    Then again worrying about finances is not something Labour have ever worried about in the past.

    Maybe they could take a leaf from their communist mates and simply shoot all the brighter kids and their parents.
    If they execute the intelligent I suspect most lefties will survive

    • gazzaw

      Who will inherit the earth Mark M? Socialists or cockroaches?

      • Jimmie

        The one and the same…..

      • Neil

        ¬†How much time have you got Gazzaw….

      • gazzaw

        You will definitely last me out Neil…………unless the Mortein gets you first.

    • Polishpride

      And I always thought that it was a Right wing facist party masquerading as socialists that did that.

      • Magoo

        Ahhh, you mean the totalitarian National SOCIALIST German Workers’ Party that the left wing try to relabel as a right wing party?

        Adolf ‘free market’ Hitler?¬†Adolf ‘less government’ Hitler?¬†I don’t think so.

        Must’ve been those wicked free marketeers executing & starving all those people last century, not those poor loving, caring socialists from the¬†National Socialist German Workers’ Party.

      • Polishpride – V

        Yes thats the one or are you trying to tell me and the rest of the world that Hitler wasn’t a Facist Dictator!!??!!

      • Magoo

        No, he was a facist dictator alright – a socialist facist dictator. The reason he was considered ‘right wing’ at the time is because he was anti communist. By todays standards he reflects the left wing viewpoint of a large govt that knows best, combined with strong doses of anti big business, anti capitalisism, & a nationalism that forbids foreigners investing in our farms or assets.

      • In Vino Veritas

        Polish,¬† I dont think from Magoo’s post that he is saying Hitler wasnt a facist dictator. He is saying the the party he belonged to had some socialist leanings. As you’d expect from a facist regime where private business and property were good unless they werent directly serving the national interests, in which case they were nationalised. There, socialism linked to facism.

      • Polishpride – V

        magoo- national socialism is just another name for fascism. national socialism is a right wing ideology. Just because it contains the word socialism doesnt make it socialism.

      • Magoo

        You can call it what you like PP, but actions speak louder than words:

        Anti big business
        Anti capitalism
        Xenophobic nationalism

        Now, which of those 3 things can you ascribe to right wing politics in NZ? I can easily do so for the Greens & Labour, but not National & ACT. If it looks like a duck & sounds like a duck, & it even goes so far as to call itself a duck, it’s a duck.

        I know how hard it is for you to accept it as I used to believe as you do when I was a leftie, but you only need to take a look at the lefties¬†today¬†and the way they behave to see the parallels – parallels that are lacking in the modern right wing political spectrum. After all those years of calling others facist it’s hard to admit that the politics you subscribe to has more in common with facism than your political enemies.

        Something else that might alarm you is that the Democrats in the USA has strong historical ties to the KKK.

      • Polishpride

        Magoo I was giving you a fact that you can put in your pocket and remember later – Think of it like gravity its not up for debate. ¬†National Socialism = Facism = Right wing. Its pretty simple. The big news of the day for you though is that it isn’t just left wing parties that seek to control everything.¬†
        As much as you would like it to be its not all smiles and roses with capitalism on the right and everything to do with dictators and wanting control on the left. 
        See you make the same mistake as everyone else on here has and assume I am left or right. Рread a bit further down.. in fact scratch go on the internet and educate yourself about National Socialism so next time you know what your talking about.    

      • Magoo

        The mistake you’re making PP is you think the definition of right wing from the 30’s & 40’s is still right wing today – it’s not. Let me explain so you’ll understand:

        The Nazi’s were considered right wing (& rightly labeled so) because they were right of communism which was the left wing at the time. They were right wing IN THEIR DAY. In modern society however, communism barely exists, and socialism is the modern left wing. The modern right wing is conservatism & libertarianism.

        If you think the Nazi’s were right wing by todays standards then draw some parallels to prove your point – i.e. in what way are they similar to modern right wing politics?

        If you can’t then you’re full of shit, & I’m saying that not be rude but to show you that your beliefs are baseless.

        After you fail to answer that question, ask yourself the following:

        In what way are the Nazi’s similar to modern left wing politics?

        Why do neo-nazi’s (supposedly extreme right wing) hate the National Party, and prefer to vote Labour?

        After being told by a pack of leftie apologists that Nazi’s are right wing for so long it’s hard to shake off the bias instilled in you, isn’t it. Try thinking for yourself, instead of being told what to think by some outdated categorisation that was only valid during the first half of the 20th century, a categorisation that is exploited by the modern left wing (national socialists such as Labour) to trick you into voting for them.

      • Polishpride

        Magoo –¬† I could say when all else fails refer to the Oxford dictionary definition which is as follows
        Facism
        noun
        [mass noun]
        an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
        (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices: this is yet another example of health fascism in action
        The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922‚Äď43); the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach
         
        For some reason though I decided to look a little further afield on this one and found this  
        http://the-classic-liberal.com/are-fascists-right-wing/
        it was the second diagram I found interesting …….and it supports your assertions
        so it appears I owe you an apology and a thankyou – you have changed my mind on this one despite what the Oxford Dictionary says.
         
        I think perhaps you should consider letting Oxford know they have it wrong and your reasoning why. 

  • gazzaw

    Herr Klarkenfuhrer is alive & well! Freedom of choice? Get fucked, you’re only parents so what business is it of yours how your children get educated and what information we choose to indoctrinate them with.

    Aside from the total lack of ethics Comrade Carter displays has this fuckwit thought through the economics. Aside from all of the costs of educating their children in the private system being met by parents the government actually makes money out of it. State subsidy to private schools about $1.5k annually per child, GST on average fees of $15k annually equals $2250 so a profit of $750 per child for the government. With 35000 kids in the private system that is a cool profit of $2.625 million. As per usual socialist accounting is totally fucked.

      

    • le sphincter

      Typical privilege nonsense. There isnt 35000 in the private system. More like 3500.
      The rest are  in the state-private system, which the state pays all the salaries and bills except for the cost of  new buildings. A lot more than  $1.5k per year more like $8k +.

       Dont forget the university costs as well.

      Absurd to call it a saving ¬†for the taxpayer…its an out and out SUBSIDY.

      What about the people who dont have kids at all…. do they get a rebate ??? Of course not

      • gazzaw

        Think before you speak spink. Dio, St Cuths & Kings alone have over 4000 pupils! $1500 per year IS the amount. Where do you get $8k from? Are you guessing again?

      • Johnbronkhorst

        Fuck wit…again!!!! Just a quick google…..2002…..around 750 000 kids in school…3.8% in private school….ie 28 500….these numbers have RISEN since then! As for the benefits of subsidising entry to private schools for SOME. Simple maths, if the govt. pays 25% of the fees….the parents pay 75% of the fees, saving the taxpayer 75% of the education costs of those students. Meaning more money to increase assats etc of the state education system!…BURK

      • Quintin Hogg

        LS,
        Kings, Dio, St Cuthberts, St Kentigerns alone execeed 3500 kids. 
        I have no idea what the numbers total for those that attend Strathallen, Dilworth, ACE, Kristen etc etc but they would bring the number in Auckland closer to 10k at least.

      • Johnbronkhorst

        Quintin…St Pats and St Pats town, St Bernards, Sacred Heart, etc etc etc In Wgtn!! the arsehole is a dork!

      • Joe Bloggs

        More verbal diarrhoea from the arsehole – time to unblock the drain and get the facts on the table:

        Fact 1: 39,300 enrolled in 43 independent schools in 2011

        Fact 2: government subsidies to independent schools totalled $70m in 2011

        Fact 3: that’s $1,780 per student enrolled in an independent school

        Why don’t you fuck off back to Willis Street where you’ll fit right in with the other compulsive liars

      • In Vino Veritas

        On the Schpink. Always remember, heshe has not made a valid argument backed by facts. Not ever. Heshe lives by making things up and trying to pass them off as reality (sort of like the Labour Party). Good work on posting facts!

      • Agent BallSack

        Everything Sphinc says is shart. Which is what you get when you go to fart and shit instead.

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        “What about the people who dont have kids at all…. do they get a rebate ???”

        You get a more than enough rebate when you use public services including NZ super…unless of course you fall into the top 13% of taxpayers (unlikely if you
        re a left-winger), have private health insurance, born into a private hospital and went to private schools. If none of the above then you were indebted to the state before you were born and will never repay us. 

        So it is us who do pay a lot of tax AND have children who will mostly likely grow and pay a lot of tax – children who are not a drain on society as their parents dont get WFF, have private health insurance and are likely to go to private schools, that will be paying YOUR fair share.

      • Joe Bloggs

        This diarrhoea from the arsehole is straight out of the Blue State Digital handbook Рwhenever a compelling argument is put up by the right, the left flings all sorts of made-up bullshit around, plays the people not the policies and muddies the waters as quickly as possible. 

        That way it’s more difficult for common sense to prevail once the truth emerges

      • AnonWgtn

        I understand that the actual figure is 9,000.

      • Hollyfield

        Further to the figures by Joe Bloggs – private schools pay the Government more in GST than they receive in subsidies from the Government. Plus of course the Government¬† doesn’t have to pay the teacher and support staff salaries, building and maintenance costs….

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        Hollyfield – then of course there is the fact that the parents of private students are still paying taxes, not getting a rebate for their private tuition costs and not using the public education system. So the government in essence is getting money nothing….a real win win for someone like Trevor Mallard who just closes schools and/or implements a funding freeze for 5 years.

      • le sphincter

        I referred to the state/private schools or Integrated schools as they are formally known.
        Operational funding for state integrated schools last year: $127m.Total roll of state integrated schools last year: 84,770So ‘operational funding which EXCLUDES teacher salaries is ¬†aprox $1500 per pupil.¬†Academic staff costs are easily ¬†$5-$7k per pupil.Full private schools ( Kings etc ) are doing OK in main centres but on the skids in the provinces. – ¬†Wanganui Collegiate is going ‘integrated’Dickheads – read my words- I have only being talking about integrated schools- the private schools where the taxpayer carries most of the can

  • Dave

    It’s about self preservation, By lowering educational standards, they think they will generate more public school dropouts and it turn more union members and labour members / voters. A little tongue in cheek there, but what else could he be thinking Oh, & check out Jordan Carter’s education, poor chap missed out on a private education.

    • Polishpride

      - missed out on a private education –¬†As did most¬†Kiwis in fact based on the numbers above somewhere in the vicinity of 96-97% of kiwis¬†so what are you trying to say exactly? Private schooling doesn’t¬†equal intelligence, nor does public schooling for that matter. Kids in¬†private schools are taught ‘what’ to think just as well as kids in public schools, perhaps even more so.¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†

      • gazzaw

        PP, you may be right but it’s all about¬†parental choice not state dictatorship. ¬†

      • Johnbronkhorst

        No PP from what I have ACTUALLY SEEN, kids in private schools are taught HOW to think, it is kids in public schools that the teachers want to teach them WHAT to think!……Hence their opposition to National standards, league tables and ALL other forms of measurement of a school’s, teacher’s or student’s ability….that they (the teachers) can’t control or manipulate to their OWN ends!!!

      • Polishpride – V

        Not from what I have seen in my final year at a private school, nor from what I see¬†in the workplace¬†but then perhaps it was all undone at University. Vic being a prime example even ran a marketing campaign on teaching¬†people how to think not what to think,¬†yet¬†the complaints I have heard about Vic are around the fact that they¬†don’t do this.¬†¬†¬†

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        Polish – you seem young which means you haven’t worked (or for long anyway), you haven’t voted in many elections, you don’t pay much tax, and most importantly, you don’t have children.

        Come back in about 10 years time when you are likely to have some substance to back up your alternative points of view.

      • Polishpride – V

        Unsolicitedious – The only thing you got right was no kids …yet
        I,ve paid taxes for 23 years
        I have done almost everything you are told to do within the system
        Go to school get and education
        Go to University get a better education
        Get a career
        Get Married have kids ( haven’t done that either)
        Start a business.
        Buy a house (on my third one)
        So no I don’t need to go to the standard or anywhere else for that matter I am quite capable of challenging your thinking or if I think you need it –¬†tearing you a new arsehole right here on Whale Oil thanks very much. Besides I’ve had a¬†look at the standard¬†– boring and very poor website design.
        I can see how you might have concluded that from my last comment though on rereading it. But the conclusions on Vic are from my friends children, a couple of cousins 20 years junior and staff that work for me.
        I’m not here to be anyones friend I am here to make you think hopefully for yourself.¬†My views are anything but mainstream but my views are a product of my experience from within a system that I see as flawed on far too many levels that contrains us as a society rather than providing an environment where everyone can reach their full potential should they choose to. There are better ways far better.¬†¬†¬†
              

      • Polishpride – V

        Unsolicitedious – I can see how you would come to that conclusion on reading my previous post but the examples on Vic are from my friends children and cousins twenty years my junior.
        I am not here to be anyones friend. I see the system for what it is. Seriously flawed and in need of replacement. I¬†am here to¬†try and get people to think especially if it is providing an opportunity to think of a world outside of the current system. People on here also need to understand that moving a couple of degrees to the left or to the right doesn’t really change anything – never has,never will.
        I have payed taxes for 23 years which should give you an idea on how old I am       

      • Polishpride – V

        Unsolicited I have voted in many elections but the previous will be my last until there is an opportunity to change the system or when we have true democracy – a concept you might want to consider teaching your kids about when they are older.
        I figure if I don’t vote then I am not responsible in any way shape or form for the mess that the idiots that are voted in create. A fantastic idea I got from George Carlin.¬†

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        PP-V – not voting until we have a “true democracy”. What a naive thing to do. All it does is make you an uncommitted complainer; if you don’t participate in the democratic process then you certainly have no business complaining about it…which includes commenting on here!

      • Polishpride – V

        Unsoliciteous – another thing drummed into us by the system.
        “You must vote, It’s your right to Vote, If you don’t vote you have no reason to complain”
        I disagree with that – If you vote you are saying you believe in the system. The system works.
        I don’t believe in it, I don’t believe it works.
        In this day and age with the technology we have available there is no reason to still have a representative democracy!
        Are¬†you telling me that you aren’t smart enough to make your own decisions on what policy you would vote for and because of this it is better for you to put that in the hands of a group of politicians who may or may not choose to keep the promises they have made!?! And When they don’t You can what – vote them out in 3 years time!?!
        Everyone on here has the ability to make an informed decision on each and every policy.
        Some on here weven have the ability to formulate policy.
        Tell me – why do we still need politicians.
        If it helps think of it as my form of protest against the system.
        What happens if people realise they don’t have to vote and don’t and voter turnout drops to say 20% – Does the government still have a mandate?
        I don’t think so¬†
        Then we can put in place a system that works for everyone.
        If you participate you are consenting to the system and you definitely have no right to complain. You after all were responsible for putting the idiots into power at which point historically speaking they screw things up.   
         
              

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        PP-V thanks for the reply – just came on to acknowledge them so you knew I had read them. I cant give them a proper response now as school is out so I need to walk the talk! You do make some very interesting points – when you’re not throwing the odd antagonistic two-liners..! You should set up your own blog as I’m sure the likes of¬†Opinionated Libertarimum would love to add you to their blogroll!

  • le sphincter

    Labour doesnt have to abolish them.  The English/Key recession is doing it for them. 

    Those that arent being kept alive by ¬† special state subsidies are moving into the ‘state system’

    Interesting how Nationals ‘Stasi like’ surveillance ¬†methods tracks anyone connected to labour.¬†
    No powerpoint slide appears in a labour branch meeting without then being swallowed up in to Nationals archives, to be disseminated by the elves on the end of the tip line.

    • Joe Bloggs

      Hey chatte, you overlooked the secret recordings of Bill English and Lockwood Smith carried out by Labour’s own Stasi activists, back in 2008.

      And how’s about that ridiculous low-life comment by long-time union activist and¬†PPTA apparatchik Bronwyn Cross, describing the idea of placing charter schools schools in impoverished areas of south Auckland and Porirua as racism?

      Typical gutter tactics from Labour – pah!

      • Johnbronkhorst

        Polish….still didn’t read it did you fuck wit

    • Johnbronkhorst

      Still a dick head aren’t you!

      • Polishpride – V

        Still having trouble¬†formulating an effective argument without resorting to insulting people who’s viewpoints differ from yours then JBK

      • Johnbronkhorst

        Polish you fucking dick head…..read my post above, or do I have to repeat myself for fuckwits like you?

      • Polishpride – V

        JBK – and again you proved my point very nicely – perhaps you should consider going back to school, might I suggest English. It could do your argument formulation skills wonders and you wouldn’t continue to come off like a Neanderthol.¬†¬†Side note – I didn’t realise the National party¬†took¬†Neanderthols as members, interesting… I guess like all political parties they pretty much will talke anyone..¬†¬†¬†¬†

      • Johnbronkhorst

        OK polish I’ll put it this way¬†for you….As a typical labourite…YOU…have shown an elequence in your prose and rebuttle….BUT like all labourites…you said¬†a lot¬†but what you said¬†MEANS absolutely nothing and refused to present an arguement of your own on the subject…..in this case “abolision of private schools”. So I assume that just like the arsehole above, you know nothing or have no facts to present!

      • Polishpride – V

        JBK – as I’ve said before I’m not a Labourite ( or green or blue, or any other colour on the NZ political party rainbow) –¬†but since you struggle to deal with anything that doesn’t have a lable I’ll help you with a couple that you can use. Libertarian and Anarchist.¬†¬†The Libertarian side says it is of course as it should be the choice of the parent to send their child to public or private school. The Anarchist side says¬†be responsible for your own childs education.¬†Given the comments of some posters in my short time on WO, I’d have to go libertarian because the latter option (in light of those comments including yours JBK)¬†is just too scary to contemplate.¬†¬†

      • Johnbronkhorst

        and polish….still no arguement. Choice is stallwort of ACT, National…particularly. Those claiming to be Libertarians are usually only that in nature until their own short comings disadvantage them personally…then they are the worst kind of leftist govt. control arseholes going…So are you a true libertarian, or just someone who likes the sound of the name??

      • Polishpride – V

        Somewhere between Libertarian and Anarchist РI believe the govt should only be there so far as to organise and serve the needs of the people Рpolice, fire, power, water. Laws should be scaled right back with common law as the basis. Everyone should have certain inalienable rights, food, clothing, a home, the use of resources, access to technology and freedom. No one should have to pay a tax of any kind and society and the goal of the system should be to free people from having to work. In this world the needs and wants of the individual are paramount and the system is there to serve this. The system is not there to look after you. Think of the system like a machine. The best part of all a machine has no politicians. 

      • Polishpride – V

        Act have a marketing problem they are seen as right wing user pays and that is a problem. If they were to be true pro choice that would include redesigning the very¬† system itself to serve the people who can then choose to live their lives however they choose. Having to go to work to pay the bills and having even more under user pays is not libertarianism. It is a cop out that can’t think beyond the boundaries of the current system.¬†¬†¬†

      • Vij

        John
        Don’t waste your time debating with a moron, just ignore him.

      • Polishpride – V

        Vij your level of intelligence probably doesn’t allow you to understand the concepts being discussed perhaps you should run outside and play instead.¬†

      • Richard McGrath

        Polish – I’m very close to you in my views, as you may have guessed from previous posts. I believe the govt should be there to¬†fulfil certain duties to their citizens, but otherwise leave them alone to make thir own choices and spend their own (untaxed) money as they see fit.

      • Polishpride – V

        Thanks Richard – I had picked that up It also helps me in my belief that we’re the sane ones and everyone else is nuts (or at least needs to wake up). I think the main area where you and I may differ is that I’d get rid of money

      • Pukakidon

        ¬†Richard and Polish, Why don’t you both get a room.

        However it is really nice to see internet love developing on here.

    • gazzaw

      National’s ‘Stasi like’ surveillance?

      I don’t think any self respecting Nat member would turn up at a labour branch meeting. They would be a tad obvious. Where do they hold them by the way now that Telecom has removed public telephone boxes? On the other hand I do seem to recall a ‘Stasi like’ character being outed at a Nat function complete with listening device.

      • le sphincter

        How come WO gets all these images from the elves working for national and posted as ¬†from the ‘tipline’.
        Who else is  keeping tabs of facebook pages of nobodies in the labour party -or NZ first.- obviously not growing the economy with their time.

      • gazzaw

        Maybe WO does have elves hanging around red websites Spink, who knows?  Just like labour has you sniffing around here.

      • Pukakidon

         Labour nobodies.   What other kind is there?

    • http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/ Inventory2

      ¬†Recession Sphincter? NZ’s growth rate in the March quarter was the third-highest in the OECD. The only area in recession is your thinking process.

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        Sadly he did make one teeny tiny valid point – the rolls of private schools have dropped slightly due to tighter times. Apparently to the point where some have scrapped their scholarships meaning low income families can no longer apply to get in.

  • CJA

    I went to Uni with this guy. He was a dick at Uni and clearly a leopard does not change its spots.

    • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

      Hmmm a Canadian brought up in South Auckland….do you think he was ever likely to?

  • Phar Lap

    What a great idea,with that on their manifesto  as an election pledge,it would ensure they will always be ,where they deserve to be ,in opposition.Bring it on dumbo Lie-bour.

  • Bunswalla

    I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the FB post – it says he was standing near some Bulls so clearly he stepped in some bullshit.

  • Andy

    I think his Labour collegues won’t like his coments at all.
    Why would they want to take there little darlings out of Private school and educated them with the “unwashed”.

    • gazzaw

      Eminent socialist, man of the people & knight of the realm SIR Michael Cullen attended Christs College. An active ‘old boy’ too it seems. ¬†

      • le sphincter

        scholarship ! 

        They needed to raise the pass rate…… still do all though asian students ¬†can afford the fees and ¬†study like demons

    • AnonWgtn

      Where does Silent T’s son go to school – along with John Key’s son.
      Guess ?

      • le sphincter

        he goes for the low  teacher student ratio they advertise prominently.

      • gazzaw

        But according to the socialists Cunliffe is having his son’s education subsidised by the taxpayer. ¬†Hypocrisy? Surely not.

  • Whafe

    Oh well, just listen tot he results of the study the Auckland Council have done on 50 large employers re employing people…

    In a nutshell, young people dont know how to work… Thanks Pinko’s, you have fucked a generation of humans…. Shutting down private schools will help, NOT… You morons…

    • Polishpride – V

      Redesign the system and very few would even have to work.

      • Roger

        As we are seeing in Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and the list goes on. Your prescription is not working.

      • Polishpride – V

        Roger РMy prescription!?! what is my prescription Roger? My prescription has nothing to do with the PIGS but you like many others may not have the mental capaicity to be able to understand anything outside of the current already tried systems. Let me give you a clue though, In everything there are lessons In Capitalism the most positive lesson is through the concept of planned obselesence we know we have an abundance of resources. That the pursuit of money will enable some men to do the most hideous things Рhuman trafficking for a labour and sex trade that involves women and children.
        Now it is possible to have a new system where poverty and Human trafficking are eradicated overnight and where even those who are very successful under capitalism can have even more as can everyone under a new system.
        Not everyone is Red, Green, or Blue. Some people can actually think for themselves.           

  • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

    Well if Labour did get in and this happened we would most certainly be taking our high wages & high taxes somewhere else.

    Honestly this party and their comrades are just one big bunch of ignorant you-know-whats. They are living in la la la and quite frankly, are the real elitists – academics with no clue, no real life experience about anything.

    Scrapping private schools – including state/private – do they really think that will solve our social issues?

    Our state Primary school in our immediate area is awesome but our¬†local high schools which are in the wider area, are crap. Mid-range decile, average NCEA pass rate, high truancy rates and huge rolls. One of the schools is also well known for its pregnancy rates….not an option. Busy kids with plenty of support do well so enjoy school, dont wag & certainly dont get pregnant.

    We can afford private so we will go private – why not. I can deal with snobbery and potential elitism but there is no way I am putting our child in a school where the common dominator is kids who have no respect for themselves or others.

    And if you can afford it why on earth would you ever choose to put your child in a struggling school when they can go to a school that recognises their strengths and has an average NCEA pass rate of more than 90%? 

    If there wasnt such a huge discrepancy in measurable outcomes in some areas between private schools and state then that Labour muppet would have a point. But there is so he doesn’t.

    • Polishpride – V

      Isn’t it interesting that in our childrens most impressionable and arguably most important years we are all too eager to make their education someone elses responsibility..

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        What do you mean? Sounds like you are referring to child care?

      • Roger

        Au contraire. We want it to be the decision and responsibility of a family – with genuine choice. Labour always wants to substitute the family for the State. Talk about abdication of responsibility.

      • Polishpride – V

        What do I mean – Educate your own children! Why do you rely on the state or some other private institution. Imagine the relationship you would have with your children if you did this.

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        Interesting – are you some kind (extreme?) Libertarian whereby you believe there should be no State at all or do you live on a commune?

        I’m curious – especially since you clearly have a computer. Those kinds of House on the Prairie views coupled with using modern technology does seem like a rather odd amalgamation…..

        I am not a fan of childcare bar maybe 10-20 hours p/w when they are about 4 1/2 so you can have a break from each other and they get to play with kids outside their own families, but I like school. 

        I think it works so long as there is a parent there for them before and after school. I just do’nt think they should be in before/after/holiday programmes.¬†

        And I like what the BA in Education degree teaches. But I had no interest in doing that degree myself so I would rather those that did, educate my child in the 3 Rs and my husband and I will take care of the rest (emotional, spiritual and physical wellbeing). 

        Good schools and good parents = a perfect outcome where you have children that grow up to be self-managing, well-adjusted contributing members of society.

      • Polishpride – V

        Unsolicitedious – probably not as extreme as I come accross but in order to challenge peoples thinking you do need to take an ‘out of the box’ approach. I did like your response a lot by the way and clearly you have given this area a lot of thought (or intuitively understand it).¬†¬†We are¬†still deciding on¬†children and I am not sure I want to bring any into the world as it is. If we do I will seriously look at home schooling as there are far more important things to teach them than what they learn in¬†school (or did back when I was there) just need to ensure they won’t be social pariahs.
        I am anti government, Govt lies and is self serving If govt was a horse it would be shot. I have dealt with it in my business and worked in numerous govt departments.  
        Not anti school just not really happy with the curriculum¬†and there are many things I wan’t to teach my kids. ¬†
        No commune
        And yes I do live on a Prarie :) No Seriously I do     

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        PP-V: I suspected you would prefer home schooling….I’d be interested to know what you do when you do have school-aged children.

        What dont you like about the curriculum in primary & high school?

        I can understand home schooling when you live out in the sticks, but urban, just don’t get it. I know of a few families who do it and it seems to work for them – they have mixed and matched (school vs home school depending on the age) though.

        I share many of your sentiments re anti govt – especially when it comes to welfare and health. But I quite like our education system (except for the teachers who bring politics into it) and just cant see how every parent being required to teach their child everything would ever work, especially since so many cant even feed, cloth & house their children on their own merit.

        I would happily scrap the govt too if we could be guaranteed that every person knew how to take responsibility for their own lives, actions and choices. My provisional tax would become non-existent.

        But sadly, that it is a utopia that will never come to fruition. So I want to make sure that where areas have crap high schools in the region my child has options (private).

      • Polishpride – V

        Unsolicitedious – what I don’t like about the curriculum is the lack of usability once the child has left school, especially Maths and Science. I¬†can see the point in teaching some of it but when I think of how many hours I spent on these¬†topics and then hardly ever used (them apart from a basic level) once I got into the real world. Then there’s all the lessons about how the world really works that I would rather have known. If we still have a monetary system ( and I hope like hell we don’t) then I want to teach them about how this works and what they need to do to be successful. Then theres all the things science screws up because it doesn’t follow examples provided by Nature. There’s so many¬†lessons in nature that can be used and applied to¬†life. Teachers just aren’t equiped to teach this stuff.¬†To many on here these examples will seem silly but for me were incredible to see and learn, Q: What type of energy do the most powerful forces in the world use Hurricanes and Tornados A:¬†Implosion – so why does man use explosion which is always¬† inefficient.
        Q: Why does a trout in a river swim upstream when you throw a rock in A: Turbulance created by bodyshape enables it to standstill facing upstream. Why don’t we design watergoing craft using these principles.
        I have seen an unhealthy plant in a garden decimated whilst healthy ones are left untouched. Could this be used somehow instead of insecticides?
        Why¬†do many weeds have broadbased leaves?¬† Leave a pile of soil out in the open for 3, 6, 12 months and see what happens. Soil doesn’t like to be¬†uncovered, it dries out and erosion takes place. yet nature has considered this and¬†provides a solution. This is the tip of the iceberg.
        I found social studies very interesting. My cousins where pulled out of school for six months and went on a trip around the world. What better way to learn about social studies.
        I will be more interested in my childs education than any teacher will ever be.
        But you raise a good point I am not sure I would do it if I still lived in the city.  

    • Polishpride – V

      Roger if that is your perception of responsiblity to your childrens education Рmaking a decision on what school they should go to.. perhaps you should think a bit harder on what your responsibility should be.  

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        PP-V: taking ones responsibility seriously in terms of deciding which school is the best option for your child/ren is important and is no way indicative that your other responsibilities as a good parent fall by the wayside.

        I am not sure what you are trying to achieve here other than perhaps attempt to divert attention away from the point of Whale’s post.

        If you live in a House on a Prairie and home school your kids then good for you – but I have to ask, what are they doing while you are sitting on a computer trolling? Shouldn’t you be off monitoring their learning just the same as a good teacher in a good school is doing right now for my child?

  • tarkwin

    In a democracy you need a strong opposition, not one that can’t get it’s foot in it’s mouth because it’s full of lead from previous shootings. I just hope all the justifiably disillusioned voter don’t slink off to the dark side and vote Green/communist.

  • The Gantt Guy

    Here’s a better idea: abolish state schooling! Move every child onto a system where funding follows the child, and the parents can choose how/where the education takes place.

    • Blokeintakapuna

      Trouble is – some “parents” shouldn’t be allowed to breed. The only reason they are able to is because they can, not because they have the ability and the resources.¬†

      Some parents would take all this “funding” and spend it on their own failing education at Sky City or the TAB – then blame the system, whilst holding their hand out for more money for kiddies eduction… and can we have some more money for food and warm clothing too please?

      • The Gantt Guy

        So, go with my preferred solution, where the state provides no funding whatever for education. Reduce income tax rates to 0% to compensate, and problem solved. Of course, you also have to disband the welfare state, so those parents who might spend their (our) money at the TAB or Sky City would be out working instead.

  • parorchestia

    The late and not lamented Labour government did its best to kill off the independent schools movement, but failed.
    The idea that a future Labour government would close these schools and thus run roughshod over people’s rights is yet another reason why they must NEVER become the government again.

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