Colin Craig – Abuse makes you Gay

So Colin Craig has shown his truly homophobic colours and said on The Nation yesterday that (according to him): ‚Äúhomosexual men, they are statistically far more likely to have suffered child abuses as a child.‚ÄĚ

He uses this ‚Äėevidence‚Äô to show that people choose to be homosexual because they suffered abuse as a child, and weren‚Äôt born that way.

A few questions for dear Colin:

  1. What sort of child abuse causes men to choose to be gay?
  2. Does being smacked as a child make you gay? How hard would the smack need to be to make you gay? How often?
  3. Does emotional abuse by adults cause homosexuality?¬† Like being marginalised, teased for being a fag, for being too ‚Äėfemme‚Äô or being interested in other boys?
  4. Is it sometimes ‚Äėabuse‚Äô at the hands of adults or even other children because you were a little bit gay already?
  5. Could you have the most wonderful upbringing (by your definition) with heterosexual parents and still be gay?¬† Hmmm, but surely something went wrong along the way?¬† God forbid they were Born that way ‚Äď I guess that might make them in God‚Äôs image. Oh, that‚Äôs right God is a man and heterosexual‚Ķ probably white too?
  6. Colin, you were very specific that only homosexual men are ‚Äėthat way‚Äô because they were abused as children‚Ķ what makes lesbian women?
  7. Why would anyone choose to be gay?
  8. Even if it as you say that blokes are “turned gay”…then can they be “turned back”?
  9. Even if it as you say that blokes are “turned gay”…then why are you still opposed to them being able to marry?
  10. Doesn’t that victimise then further?
  11. Can gay really be prayed away?

Perhaps there are some other helpful questions that Colin has all the answers to.  Feel free to add them to the comments.  I will see if we can get some answers.

  • Pete George

    With the amount of abuse Craig is attracting for his views now it shouldn’t be long before he chooses to be gay.

    • http://truebluenz.com/ Redbaiter

      A typical PG misrepresentation. The abuse may be loud but most people are on his side, as the National / Labour co-alition will discover at the next election.

      BTW, there is no such medical condition as “homophobic”.

      Its a propaganda term, used only to try and shut down arguments that confront the current homosexual political agenda.

      • gazzaw

        A phobia I believe is a morbid fear & I don’t believe that those who have issues with the homosexual agenda are in anyway scared of the gay community or its aspirations. Just another emotive PC terminology to add to the collection.

      • Vikingonmars

        A typical PG misrepresentation. The abuse may be loud but most people
        are on his side, as the National / Labour co-alition will discover at
        the next election.

         Evidence then RED. You are behaving like that other nasty prick and party hopper, Chuck. He was telling the world on Kiwiblog that Loiusa wall should run a referendum to establish her support. (which she has no obligation to do as an MP).
        ¬†Why don’t the two of you put your money where your big mouths are and run a petition if you are so confident that you are right.
        But ya won’t.
        ¬†Don’t have the courage of your convictions to put your money and effort in front of your big mouths.

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        Pete George – good call.

        Whale – how demoralising that someone like Redbaiter apparently has so many people that agree with him, people that are actually stupid enough to believe the myths that Colin Craig espouses as fact.

        1 in 4 girls are molested by the time they are 16. Molested by heterosexual men Рmen who make up the majority of child abuse in NZ. Far more girls get molested by men than boys Рthat is about 25% girls & about 15% boys. This means child molestation is more commonly associated with heterosexual men. This means if you are a heterosexual man commenting on here YOU are more likely to be a pedophile than the gay men commenting on here. 

        30 children are abused, neglected & maltreated in NZ EVERY DAY. Yet despite these alarming child abuse statistics, same sex attraction is a small proportion of the population Р1-2% at most.

        This means at MOST there might be a casual link between abuse and sexual orientation. But in most cases there isnt. 

        But dont let the facts get in the way of your bigotry….

        And whale – good on you for continuing to thrash this issue – it has been interesting to see how ignorant these keyboard warriors really are; NO ONE has been able to substantiate their anti gay views.

      • Pete George

        ¬†“Redbaiter apparently has so many people that agree with him”

        “Apparently” being a key word. It could be that Redbaiter apparently has multiple ways of agreeing with himself.

  • Greg

    GO COLIN, he’s is just stating facts people.¬† Ever wondered why homo’s are sooooooo angry?¬† Have a look at their life style, they aren’t happy but happy to bash people who have other views.
    COLIN FOR PM! 

    • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

      Colin is gutless…he isn’t opposed to marriage equality at all. He will go with whatever a referendum says…some leader he isn’t.

      • Greg

        ¬†Well look what we have now, leaders they aren’t.¬†

      • http://truebluenz.com/ Redbaiter

         Chik a Fil protest in the US a complete failure.

        Mass support for the homosexual political agenda is a complete myth.

        In fact even many homosexuals reject the gay marriage agenda because they know it is severely damaging to the general public’s perception of queers.

        Colin Craig is not gutless.

        It takes courage to swim against the fascist political culture imposed on this country by the Progressives, where to have and express “unapproved” views is a danger to one’s public safety.

      • Redneck

         (Well stated Red)

        In reference to male and female homosexuality, both are borne out of different environmental factors. For lesbians, it is a long held distrust or disgust with males in their lives that eventually leads them to seek intimacy with other women instead. For males, their homosexual behavior is a manifestation of an extremely addictive and compulsive form of sexual hedonism, and is in most cases coupled to some sort of emotional disturbance during childhood or adolescence, such as sexual or emotional abuse and premature sexual experimentation that imprints inappropriate erotic images on the minds of these people.

      • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

        he is gutless…because he won’t deliver what you all think he will…if he was serious he would make repeal a bottom line and he won’t.

      • Bob

        Col is easily the bravest person in NZ politics right now. Takes guts to stand up to the vocal minority.

    • Gayman

      Facts????? Colin¬†wouldn’t¬†know a fact if it bit him on the nose.¬†

      I¬†don’t¬†think Colin has told a single truth at all through out this whole debate. He is nothing more than another hater.¬†

  • Rodger T

    Ol` Colin appears to pull a lot of stuff out of his arse for a guy that does not like bum sex.
    He seems too thick to resist the urge to take the rope the media keeps handing him,maybe he has a thing for auto-erotica? 

    • Greg

       When you think of it how long can a bum take so much abuse before it rips apart?

    • gazzaw

      Craig thick Rodger? I don’t think so. Auto-erotica? Big assumption.

      You can believe what you like but personally I think that he has struck a very electable vein of gold as the ballot box will show in 2014. I don’t have to agree with him but calling Craig thick is just that…………….thick.

    • Dave

      How do you know Mr Craig does not like Bum Sex Roger. ¬† He might actually like it… a lot, and be like the catholic church. ¬† One practice/view in private, one in public.

  • Guest

    If Colin is convinced that abuse leads to children, then he would surely be opposed to child-smacking, since it could in theory lead to abuse (why take the risk on smacking when gayness is caused by abuse). 

    Therefore, Colin Craig is actually one of the greatest promoters of homosexuality in New Zealand.

    • Greg

       Nah J Key would be the greatest promo.

  • Andrei

    –ď–ĺ—Ā–Ņ–ĺ–ī–ł, –Ņ–ĺ–ľ–ł–Ľ—É–Ļ

    New Zealand continues its headlong rush into degeneracy and not one sitting MP has the stones to stand up to the gay facist steamroller – not one!

    • Guest

      For someone asking for mercy, you sure are intolerant yourself.

      • Greg

        ¬†See he’s another angry one.

    • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

      Why can’t you write “Lord, have Mercy” in english Andrei?

      • Andrei

        It’s a prayer Whaleoil

  • http://libertyscott.blogspot.com Liberty Scott

    Most of all, why should any adult give a damn what two other adults do in their private lives with each other’s bodies?

    So much that is wrong about the post-modernist culture of moral equivalency, identity politics and victimhood politics, so many good targets for conservative politicians around welfare, around education, around a vacuous culture of celebrating mediocrity, of sneering at individual success, of celebrating group identity and ancestry over individual achievement, of denying responsibility for one’s actions and of treating humanity as a disease rather than a species of enormous achievement and potential.

    He could damn Islam, but no he hasn’t he courage to do that.¬† He could damn Maori mysticism and collectivist identity politics that has bred a generation demanding entitlement, accusing their actions on what happened to their ancestors and promoting faux pride on ethnicity not achievement.¬†¬† He could damn a welfare state and centralised education system that promotes the idea that people who succeed do so at the cost of those who don’t, and those who don’t succeed or make foolish decisions should be bailed out by everyone else, time and time again.¬† He could really start to damn the results of decades of welfarism, structuralism (the people abuse their kids because of poverty or cultural oppression) and radical feminist denial of the importance of fatherhood, all in ways that raise questions without baiting the collective left.

    No, he prefers ot churn out cheap unscientific stereotypes and to focus his attention on what consenting adults who haven’t initiated force against anyone else, do with their lives.¬†¬†

    He doesn’t have evidence that proves he is right, but most importantly even if it WAS right, who cares?¬† What does he want the state to do?¬† Should the criminal justice system focus on abused boys more than girls?¬†

    Like the shaman conman Brian Tamaki and the unspeakably vile hypocritical creep Capill, Craig is obsessed with gay sex.

    The last generation of his ilk said, when I was 16, that Homosexual Law Reform would result in an AIDS epidemic in NZ and thousands of boys being corrupted by men – oddly enough it didn’t turn me, or anyone I know to be gay.¬† He’s wrong now, and those who want a new Conservative Party need only look back in 1996 when the last really formidable effort to have such a party fell short – because it was vulnerable on this one issue.¬†

     

    • Alex

      ¬†Thanks Scott.¬† You have stated with eloquence exactly what I have been thinking and saying for ages.¬† We need a right-wing voice in our political debate, but CC obsession with homosexuality is making him into a prized tool for the Leftist agenda. New Zealand needs its own Pim Fortuyn — someone who can sell rationalist right wing policies. ¬†

    • Phronesis

      This is not about what people do behind closed doors it is about a particular form of State recognition of relationships regardless of what they do behind closed doors. 

      In case you missed it this debate is about a private members bill written by a Labour MP. CC is commenting because this is what the media is talking about and promoting. Plenty of people are addressing the issues you mention and getting no traction with the media.

      With regards Homosexual Law Reform, it clearly did result in an AIDS epidemic and probably thousands more trying being Gay but it was in my opinion still the right thing to do.

      • Vikingonmars

         What world do you live in?
        With regards Homosexual Law Reform, it clearly did result in an AIDS
        epidemic and probably thousands more trying being Gay but it was in my
        opinion still the right thing to do.

        so prostitutes and drug  got aids from Homosexual men having sex?

        Dumb and dumber.

  • hang-them

    Not all victims of child abuse turn gay,¬† only the ones who enjoy daddy’s cock in their ass.

    • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

      I see you are back again…how about I ban you ip this time. Fuck off.

  • Polish_pride

    Now I’m all for Gay Marriage……..¬†
    But imagine if the gay community stood up and said alright we won’t pursue the legalisation of Gay Marriage any further with two conditions¬†1. You change the Civil Union Law to give EXACTLY the same rights as someone getting married would have.2. you change the name in legislation and on all documentation, forms certificates etc from ‘Civil Union’ to ‘Celebration of Love’.¬†This option would of course be available for anyone that chose it also regardless of being straight or Gay.¬†I certainly know what my partner and I would choose to have and invite friends and family to.All the bigots would still have their precious ‘Marriage’ without Gays. ¬†The Gays (and anyone else wanting one) would a ‘Celebration of Love Ceremony’ ¬†¬†

    • Pete George

      I have a MARRIAGE certificate and that is precious to me.Trying to marginalise marriage is not the way to achieve equality.

      • Polish_pride

        Not trying to marinalize marriage at all. You would still have your Marriage certificate and your Marriage. Straight people wanting to have a Marriage ceremony still can. 
        The Gay community and any straight people that want to (and I am picking there would be a lot) could have a ‘Celebration of Love’ and a Celebration of Love certificate.¬†Surely you don’t have a problem with them being able to have this.. after all in no way shape or form does it affect you marriage, your certificate or even the institution of Marriage. Where’s the problem, everyones happy. ¬†

        I have heard it raised before by those opposed to Gay Marriage – The Gay community can have whatever they want just don’t call it Marriage, call it something else. Why not this?

      • Vikingonmars

         So why would it not be prescious to two other people who love one another Pete?
        Maybe a son or a daughter of yours!

      • Gayman

        How will your marriage be made less by someone else marriage? Is your value on your marriage so invested in other peoples marriages than its value would decrease?

        Using your logic, your marriage is already worthless because of the actions of everyone else in the world who treat marriage as a game. 

  • Travis Poulson

    I’m yet to meet or see a “homophobic” person. I wish the…’heterophobes’ would stop making a fool out of themselves by labelling those who don’t agree with their agenda with an imaginary medical condition.¬†

    If homophobia is a condition then so is homosexuality. But I guess that’s bigoted hate speech right?

    Then cue the “oh but homosexuality has been ruled out as a mental illness decades ago” argument, and if that’s the case, what gives you the right to invent a medical condition that has never even existed, let alone been ruled out?¬†

    Homosexual marriage argument aside, the word ‘homophobic’ (and people that use it in a failed attempt to bolster their argument) is utterly stupid.

    No doubt the sympathisers will tell me I’m wrong, but it won’t change diddley squat.

    • Gayman

      Look in the mirror and you will see a homophobic person Travis. 

      • Travis Poulson

        No such thing. 

      • Gayman

        Yes Travis I am sure that you would love all gays to go away. A shame for homophobes like yourself that will never happen.

    • Gayman

      Travis you have proved time again that your are hater and a homophobe. 

      Just man up and admit it. 

      • Travis Poulson

        Yes I’m a hater and a homophobe, now crawl back under your rock.¬†

      • Agent BallSack

        Travis: 
        Much easier to call names and stamp feet and cry.
        Gayman: 
        Travis you have proved time again that your are hater and a homophobe. 

        Way to prove a point Gayman

  • Dave

    I don’t really have a true opinion on gay marriage, but 2 Points only need to be made. ¬†

    1) ¬† Colin Craig is a blithering idiot, and swings to where ever he THINKS he can get some publicity. ¬† It WILL blow up in his face (as it is here) and he will smirk his cheesy grin and lick his wounds for a few weeks, and be back with some other luny line to get him in front of the cameras and on the front page again. ¬† Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of voters in Rodney can see right past him, which is why he LOST the last election, YUP, he LOST…….

    2)   Gay marriage, lets just get on with it.   Fuck the catholic church that for years allows their elite to do whatever they want, and then denigrates anyone who dares to differentiate from their views in public.   Am over the debate, legalize gay marriage, its a distraction this NZ does not need, the country is financially crippled, Maori are trying to bankrupt NZ with claims for anything, and the welfare and health costs are spiraling out of control, and the Gay Marriage debate rules the politicians.  Please, lets get on with fixing NZ, and not putting so much time and energy into this issue.

  • Alex

    ¬†Why are we even having this debate?¬† Whether it is genetics, a choice or child abuse, who bloody cares?¬† What two consenting adults do to each other is their own business, and doesn’t require the likes of CC to judge whether he considers it legitimate.¬† The fact that two men or two women cohabit, will not result in floods, earthquakes and plagues of locust and frogs.¬† Their have been homosexuals since we emerged from the primeval ooze.¬† So again why are we having this debate?¬† and why is CC and his ilk wasting their energies on this?¬†¬†¬†

    • Pukakidon

       Alex you are right.   Homosexuality is here and has been for many years. The vote will come and no one will give a toss.    The fact that there are the screamers on both sides calling each other names will not change anything.   

      However what amuses me is the ones in the “for Homosexual marriage” camp somehow think they are better than the other side and will not allow the “against homosexual marriage to express their view.¬† It is abit like fascism and communism, e.g. we no best what you should think.¬†¬† We live in a free world where we can express our view as long as we do not hurt anyone.

      Collin Craig may have an opinion on this but it does not mean it is right, it is his opinion. Rather than slag him off it is better to counter his argument with logical argument than just sit there calling him a hater or homophobe.   That is the argument of the ignorant.

      • Pete George

        will not allow the “against homosexual marriage to express their view

        I’ve seen that claim a bit, with no evidence to support it. There’s shouting from both extremes, but it continues so there’s no sign of people not being allowed to say anything.

        Craig is actually getting a disproportionate amount of attention. The success he has discrediting the anti side of the argument could raise suspicions that he’s a closet gay equality campaigner.

      • Pukakidon

         Who is giving him the disproportionate amount of attention?

        The gay community with all their name calling, they should counter his opinion valid argument.¬†¬† I could care less what Colin’s opinion is, he is just one man.

  • Mediaan

    Hey, we don’t need all the smart-arse rhetoric.

    Just a bit of evidence would be fine. Got any?

    And what I heard on The Nation was Colin Craig offering a serious fact or two about DNA research, but not being allowed to get it said.

    Louisa Wall, dressed as Davy Crockett with bone knobs on, (and a deck of aircraft-carrier-like breasts, for extra power), kept interrupting with glib talk of her own.

    • Gayman

      Colin can present any proof he has of his position at anytime, but you will find the wont hold water. They will be religious based/backed studies with VERY questionable methods used. As opposed to the MOUNTAINS of studies that state sexuality is not a choice. 

      • Bob

        Links?

      • Gazzaw

        Information sources PLEASE for the mountain of studies Gayman.

  • Andrewo

    I see two options here –

    Version 1
    ************
    1/People are born gay (may be true – I see no evidence presented either way)

    2/Since being gay inhibits reproduction it is highly likely that this is caused by a defect in embyronic development. Maybe chemical damage to the foetus? Who knows?

    3/So, by definiton, being gay makes a person ‘defective’. A very unpopular view in the rainbow community I suspect…

    4/Eventually the genetic code is identified and we are able to test for it and either fix it in the womb or abort it….

    Version 2
    ************
    1/ Gayness is a social issue caused by parental abuse

    2/ Thus down this route we decide homosexuality is a psychological disorder. Like this version better?

    Choose your medicine  8-)

    (It may just be chance, but the few gay folk I know all had horrid, manipulative mothers. Just saying…)

    • Pete George

      1/ Gayness is a social issue caused by parental abuse

      Research shows that it could be contributory, but it’s¬† complex.There are strong genetic indicators, especially for male homosexuals. Female homosexuals seem to be more influenced by environment.

      It’s especially difficult to discount genetics when considering homsexuality wider than humans.

      “The domestic ram is used as an experimental model to study early programming of the
      neural mechanisms which underlie homosexuality, developing from the
      observation that approximately 8% of domestic rams are sexually
      attracted to other rams (male-oriented) when compared to the majority of
      rams which are female-oriented. ”

    • Polish_pride

      A third option – it is a completely natural occurance like Red hair or Green Eyes

      • Dave

        Polish. ¬†Where the F are you coming from , I did not express an opinion if it is natural or not anywhere, but i made a tongue in cheek comment in ¬†reply to your “red hair and green eyes” comment. ¬† ¬†Get a grip man, read carefully.

    • Mediaan

      Uhhh?

      Where do you get parental from? That’s just a confounding factor.

      Nobody says it is parents.

      Abused by anybody. I think it’s highly likely that expert abusers have tens and possibly hundreds of victims.

      • Dave

        Median.   Polish might have proof he chooses to keep in the closet.   Perhaps BOTH his parents have red hair and green eyes.  

      • Polish_pride

        Dave what does it matter to you whether its natural or not. If it is natural i.e just another part of nature does that affect you somehow….?¬†

  • Jimmie

    A person I know very well was sexually abused several times as a child. She grew up hating and mistrusting men.

    As a teenager she only had thoughts of being with another woman as she hated men and didn’t want anything to do with them.

    At 18 she met a guy who she has been with for the last 11-12 years – she has worked through a lot of the old anger/hatred she had from being abused.

    She now tells me that she is repulsed with the idea of being with a woman and said that she only though like that as she didn’t know how else to deal with the pain of what she went through.

    She wasn’t born gay – she just thought she was for a few years coz she went through a whole lot of ugly experiences that no kid should go through.

  • Gazzaw

    Let’s see how the two polls work out for CC tonight. Could be some (un)pleasant surprises depending on your viewpoint.

    • Gayman

      You will see next to nothing for Colin in the polls. He will never get into Parliament. 

      • Gazzaw

        Another very bold statement Gayman, two years+ is a very long time in politics.

      • Gayman

        And I am very happy to stand by it. Colin will be nothing in 2 years. Marriage equality will pass into law and the sky will not fall, the devil will not be seen screwing little boys in the street, nor will hetro marriages fall apart anymore than they do now. 

        And Colin will have no platform to preach his hate from, normal NZ wont care about the lies and nonsense the haters will have spouted. 

  • Mr_Blobby

    I don’t know how relevant this is to the current debate.
    But I was working a door on a pub last night/this morning. There was a group of ladies outside in the smoking area. One of their friends was leaving with a boy she fancied. Her friends were yelling out about making babies and contraception advice. One such piece of advice was that, you can’t make babies up the anus.

    • Gazzaw

      And I guess Mr B that is a concept that a lot of us have some difficulty with.

  • Dave

    Have made an observation. ¬†Everyone has an opinion, yes, no, abused, victimized, teased…… ¬†¬†

    How about we all just accept they have different sexual preferences to hetrosexuals.  How many men and women are in Hetro relationships, yet still sneak out for a bit of same sex action ??   Probably quite a few, but it never makes headlines.   

    How about Legalizing same sex marriage tomorrow, and then forget the issue, and we can all get on with running the country.   

    Gay or same sex marriage is not going to effect the economy, our foreign affairs deficit, the christchurch earthquake recovery packages or the rebuild, and it won’t affect 98.75% of people, including the ones on this damn fine blog site.

    It might affect Mr Craig and a few others who have made ridiculous claims pulled straight…. um….. straight out of their own arse. ¬†But, once legalized everyone can then get on with their lives, and put their efforts into more constructive issues.

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  • Bob

    01. What sort of child abuse? Sexual of course. First sexual experience being homosexual, non-consensual, underage + an absent or otherwise unloving father. These have been common factors amongst my male gay friends.

    • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

      I suspect you have very few gay friends. My brother & cousin are gay so I know plenty and NONE were abused and nor did anyone put ideas in their heads when they chose Barbie over Tonka. Actually some did choose Tonka but they just liked boys. 
      Conversely an extended family (male) member was abused and while quite sensitive & a little odd he is not gay. He loves his wife & is very much ‘into’ her. He is homophobic but only because of what happened to him. And this is primarily because his is a generation where no one talked about anything and he had no one to confide in.¬†Like I said above, child abuse has a casual link at most to sexual orientation.¬†

    • Gayman

      Well then I guess me and my gay mate are the many many exceptions. None of us were abused, we come from loving families, all had good male and female role models, and many of us had hetro experiences as our first dabble with sex. 

      Colin is talking out of his arse. As usual. 

  • Steve and Monique

    Going by that opinion,And our countries present stats,there must be a shitload of gay Maoris. 

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