Devil Whale

According to Lucia my post yesterday on Crusher supporting marriage equality makes me the devil.

Whale Oil this morning, on Judith Collins deciding to vote to redefine marriage:

There you go. No big deal. Not that hard is it?

And Cactus Kate last month, on what it will cost John Banks to support the redefinition of marriage:

One Press release and questions from media, one day of his life. That’s all.

Both the comments above highlight exactly how Satan works to tempt people to do what they don’t want to do.  It’s no big deal, it’s just one day of your life, not that hard.  And then what you’ve done what he wants you to do, you can’t take it back, you can only ask for forgiveness and try and make up for it – OR – you deny your own own conscience and pretend it was ok to do.  If you do the latter, he’s got you good, but unfortunately, denied consciences cause all sorts of other problems.

Here’s the Venerable Fulton Sheen on the devil and how he works and how different Our Lord is before we do something wrong.

I don’t have a response to that other than to do what I have done here and republish the work so I have time to roll on the floor and laugh my ass end off.

But since apparently whenever I write about marriage equality it is the devil speaking then how about a bit of fabulous back-masking from the original devil speakers…Led Zeppelin. Songs are hard enough to make  to sound great played forwards, let alone backwards…it must have been the devil helping them:

  • LesleyNZ

    No you are not the Devil Cameron – but never forget the Devil/Satan is the angel of light and can look very beautiful.
    2 Corinthians 11:14 “And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.”

    • Lofty

      It can definately not be Cameron then…. ;-)

  • Sarrs

    Haha brilliant! Calling someone the devil is the theological equivalent of calling someone a nazi in an internet argument – Godwin’s Law was coined for that one, maybe we can call this one Whale’s Law. As an internet conversation relating to marriage equality and the bible goes on, the probability of someone being called the devil approaches 1.

  • nasska

    Remember that you should seek out Heaven for the climate but Hell for the companionship.

  • Salacious T Crumb

    What is “evil” is twisting and repressing the teachings and tenets of your subjects of veneration for the purposes of subjugating the masses politically, physically and financially.

  • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

    Cameron – as a Christian I am sure there is a part of you that finds Lucia’s comments offensive. Ridiculous yes, but offensive all the same.

    And demonizing people is exactly what I meant when I emailed you re wondering whether these posts had gone beyond their useful purpose.

    I think it is really sad that people like Lucia spend so much time & energy in judging & condemning others and that such people still exist in 2012. It is a harsh reminder of how horrible and backward some people can be. Lucia would get on well with the American Family Association (e.g. see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLI4ABTvak8)

    The problem though I think is with those that may not be quite as extreme as Lucia but still share/express similar sentiments.

    Re Stairway to Heaven – one of my most all time favourite songs. I remember my church youth leaders talking about that a lot in the early 90s…..could never really hear the so-called backward masking and still cant in the above clip…..unlike Lucia, I am obviously not in tune with Satan!

    • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

      I don;t find the comments offensive, i find them laughable. Silly extreme comments like hers must be mocked mercilessly lest they take hold.

  • DJ

    Those kooks on that site scare me more than the hard left over at The Standard.

    Jim Jeffries puts it best in a very eloquant Australian way…….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXThbqU0dw4

  • Agent BallSack

    Leviticus 18:22 forbids homosexuality.

    BUT;

    Leviticus
    25:44 allows the owning of slaves
    11:10 forbids the eating of shellfish
    19:27 forbids haircuts and trimming the beard
    11:6-8 forbids eating or touching the flesh of swine
    19:19 Cannot grow corn and peas in the same garden

    Lets not forget: Stay away from menstruating women, NO divorce whatsoever, don’t eat rabbit, don’t ejaculate on the ground, wearing clothes made of 2 different materials….

    Ad infinitum.

    • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

      Have to add “no one whose testicles
      are crushed or whose male
organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord
      (8 Deut 23:1), not to mention one must eat 
locusts (OT), not mix fibres (OT), cut your wife’s hand off
      if she helps you 
out in a fight (NT)…

      • Agent BallSack

        I like the one ‘you must cut off your wifes hand if she grabs a protagonists testicles in a fight’ hahaha damn bitch you grabbed his BALLS! Off with your hand!

    • Gayguy

      What people forget is that Lev is not law created by God, it is temple law created by priests.

      Also anyone using Lev to attack people should be aware that they are ignoring a lot of what Christ preached. You know, Christ, the guy that Christianity is based on.

      • LesleyNZ

        I think you are wrong here – God instructed the priests and revealed His law to them. The Old Testament is not only the word of God but Biblical history and we can learn from what is written in the Old Testament. Everything in the Old Testament points to the coming of Christ. The Jews still believe in just the Old Testament as they do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah foretold by the Old Testament prophets. Christians do believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that the ceremonial laws (Mosaic laws) were fulfilled with the coming of Christ and his sacrificial death for mankind, on the cross. No longer did God require the ceremonial sacrifices as Christ himself was the ultimate sacrifice – called the sacrificial Lamb of God. An example of the law fulfilled is the food that was declared clean and unclean in the Old Testament days. (A lot here on this blog have had a bit of a laugh and scoff about what is written about unclean food etc). As the law was fulfilled in Christ, no longer was food clean or unclean – all food could be eaten. Jesus Christ was not interested in the outside but the inside – the “heart” (the soul).
        Mark 7:18-19 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

        • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

          Or so you believe it to be translated – have you read the original scrolls or do you instead prefer to rely on kiddy fiddler King James’ version?

          • LesleyNZ

            No – New International Version (NIV) is OK with me.

          • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

            Interesting – so you dont mind missing out on Deuteronomy?

          • LesleyNZ

            Don’t miss it out. It is in the NIV. All scripture is given by the inspiration of God – including Deuteronomy.

      • Karlos

        The entire bible is not ‘law created by god’, it is all ‘temple law created by priests’. Need I remind you that the Old Testament has been constantly changed/updated over the centuries, all of which have occurred well after the death of christ and all of his desciples.
        By your logic, surely anyone using the bible to attack any viewpoint has little to no basis for their arguement other than ‘some priest said so’.

        • LesleyNZ

          Your logic – not mine.

        • Random66

          “.. the OT has been constantly changed/ updated over the centuries..”
          No, this statement is not correct. The English OT is primarily a translation of the Hebrew version (the Masoretic Text) and the MT was faithfully preserved by scribes and handed down. When comparing the MT with recent archaeological discoveries of ancient scrolls predating Christ there is very little change.

          • Gayguy

            You will find that the translation to English of the Bible is full of errors that have cause a whole lot of hate, much like Lucia’s hate.

          • Random66

            Agree GG that sometimes meanings get lost in translation which is why we should never single out any one verse but rather read it in conjunction with what else is said on the same subject to ensure we have the best understanding. Lucia’s bible will include the Apocrypha which is not included in my bible, so I’m not sure what that says.

    • Rodger T
  • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

    Cameron,

    I do NOT call you the devil. I don’t have my persons confused, I know you are human, like the rest of us and therefore subject to ideas and temptations. That particular line that you use is demonic, a way of trying to influence people by downplaying what it is that they have done. If it helps, Cactus Kate is worse, she’s using the tactic to try and turn someone (ie John Banks) while as you use it after the fact.

    Mockery is another demonic tactic, btw.

    • Lion_ess

      Cameron is a saint, allowing you to come and shit all over his web-site everytime the words Catholic, Pedophile and Priest are mentioned

      • DJ

        Those are normally all in the same headline aren’t they?

    • Sarrs

      Oh…so you’re not saying Cameron is the devil, you’re suggesting that he is an agent of the devil…that the devil is using him to pass on his wicked message?

    • DJ

      What the hell are you on about? How is that line demonic?

    • Polish Pride

      Lucia – might I suggest you focus on Jesus teachings of love and tolerance for all including Homosexuals and Cam
      and again use your god given intuition to determine what in the bible is valid and what is BS.
      Start with the talking snake in Genesis for a nice easy one…

    • Polish Pride

      Here’s another one for you Lucia. According to the bible God is omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent. or ….all knowing, all powerful, and everywhere all at once.
      It is this last one Omnipresent that I particularly love..everywhere means that thereis nowhere that god is not. He is in the trees, the birds, the animals the streams, the rivers, the oceans, the mountains. He is in you and me and Cam and everyone else and not just in us but in every part of us every limb, every organ, every cell, and every particle. Do you know what this means Lucia. It means…
      I am God :) ..But then so are you and so is Cam and everyone else on here. So is everyone else in the entire world…… even the Homos are God, god bless em all.
      Perhaps thats why Jesus talked about loving everyone because everyone is God.

    • Polish Pride

      Lucia – I particularly like the parts in the bible that say that god is Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent or all knowing, all powerful and everywhere all at once. I particularly like the last one because everwhere, is in the earth and in the heavens, In the trees, the rivers the oceans the mountains the birds, the bees and in all the animals. That means God is in every poster on whaleoil and in every person in the world…. including the Homos – God bless em.
      Everywhere also means he is also in you, and in me and in Cam, in every bone, in every organ, in every cell and minute little particle. As he is in every part of us Lucia that means… I am God….. but then so are you, so is Cam, all the posters, everyone else in the world and again including the Homos.
      Perhaps Lucia this is why Jesus talked so much about Loving everyone. Because everyone is God.
      Even though you didn’t say it because of this it would have been impossible for Cam to be the Devil too.

    • The Baron

      I find it so amazing that you actually really seem to believe all this…

      Lucia, it must be scary to be inside your head. Scary and sad. Jesus talked a lot about tolerance too – musta missed those bits on your way to getting all judgmental eh.

      I must ask again – even if gay marriage is a sin, then what problem is it of yours? You have not sinned – you are still welcome and blessed or whatever. Why do you care so much about the supposed sins of others? Is your house so in order that you feel that confident to do this judging of others?

      • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

        Hi Baron,

        It’s actually great being me, I wouldn’t be anyone else, but my head is not really designed for anyone else except for me. So, no need to worry about what it’s like in here!

        In answer to your question as to what problem redefining marriage is to me – any person who cares about the future for their children should be concerned about the redefinition of marriage. When societies no longer regulate sexual morality or care about marriage – civilisations crumble. That’s been the case for every advanced civilisation to date. It takes time, though. Just like the societal changes that were caused by the DPF and easy divorce, and now, in NZ, 50% of children are born out of wedlock. Less and less children are seeing their parents stick it out in marriage, they are learning instead that when a marriage no longer satisfies you, you leave. And it’s getting more and more common for thugs to roam the streets and beat up young men (it happened outside our house last year) – this sort of thuggishness is generally caused by boys growing up without fathers, and more and more children are growing up without them in NZ. It’s going to be a very dangerous place in the future. I hope you think back on this conversation when you’re holed up in your house with a gun near the door (in 30 or so years if you not too old now), hoping that the next person who comes to visit isn’t there to rob or kill you.

        • Gayguy

          Any person who cares about kids should look at the sexuality of who abuses kids the most. Physical, sexual, verbal… by a MASSIVE amount it is hetro’s,

          Equalizing marriage will do nothing to kids, except allow them to become tolerant and caring people.

          Unlike you who is filled with a lot of hate.

        • The Baron

          I’m sorry Lucia, this argument is not sensible.

          You seem to have an overly optimistic view of just how powerful the state is in regulating sexual morality and relationships. Here’s a hint – there has always been homos, there always will be homos, regardless of what the law says. Regardless of what you think, you can’t choose to be homo – there is no encouragement or corruption possible. The state has always been powerless to really prevent what goes on in the privacy of people’s homes, just like they’ve always done a pretty poor job of oppressing alternative religious choices.

          This is not a matter of encouraging a lifestyle choice or encouraging greater family breakups – hell, if anything, it will reduce exactly the sort of thing you fear, as men who love men won’t have to pretend to be “normal family types” and have kids, only to rue that decision later when they finally face who they are.

          Denying people the ability to fall in love and make a commitment to each other doesn’t sound like a recipe for roving gangs coming to kill us in our sleep. It sounds like a way of making our society happier, filled with people who are happy and secure that their relationship is respected by both their fellow citizens and the state.

          Your contrary suggestion seems to be that we deny that homosexuality exists; outlaw and reeducate these people – to ensure they can’t corrupt our society further. If history is any guide, then when you try to repress any group from a fundamental right, then things can get pretty violent.

          In other words, I’ve got history, logic and respect for my fellow man on my side. You’ve got forward looking hysteria, pseudoscience and a catholic-knows-best mentality on yours.

          Still so confident?

    • Gayguy

      And what about you? Abusing the word of God to push hate? Perverting Christs truth? What does that make you?

      • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

        Any disagreement is considered hateful. Makes it very difficult to have a reasonable discussion on this issue.

        • Gayguy

          To deny people rights that you have and your reason for it is the perversion of Gods word by yourself, yea that’s hate.

          There is nothing reasonable about your position or reason.

    • Kimbo

      “Mockery is another demonic tactic, btw.”

      …and it is also a tactic used by God, via his prophets, e.g. Elijah in I KIngs 18:27

      At noon, Elijah began
      making fun of them. “Pray louder!” he said. “Baal must be a god. Maybe
      he’s day-dreaming or using the toilet or traveling somewhere. Or maybe
      he’s asleep, and you have to wake him up.” (CEV).

    • Kimbo

      “Mockery is another demonic tactic, btw.”

      ….and mockery is also a tactic used by God, via his prophets and apostles. Such as…

      “At noon, Elijah began
      making fun of them. “Pray louder!” he said. “Baal must be a god. Maybe
      he’s day-dreaming or using the toilet or traveling somewhere. Or maybe
      he’s asleep, and you have to wake him up.” (I Kings 18:27, CEV)

      and…

      “As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!” – The Apostle Paul (Galatians 5:12, NIV), in regards to those who wrongly insisted that Christians should be circumcised.

  • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

    The devil uses everyone that will listen to him.

    • Sarrs

      How do you know the devil isn’t using you to push his disgusting hate speech? Without exception I have stayed away from this whole debate throughout all of Cam’s previous posts but your ridiculous accusation of Cam being used as the voice of the devil infuriates me.

      The world and life is constantly changing and evolving. Already on this posts we can see that parts of the bible are not longer relevant – bits about slavery and women getting their hands cut off – what makes you think it stopped evolving because you came along with your belief system? I reckon if this were the 50s you’d be one of the people picketing against mixed race marriage and relationships.

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        You’re always really eloquent Sarrs so you should probably have stepped into the debate more – including to take on my comments (pro gay marriage so generally against the mood on these posts) as at least you would have kept bigotry, generalisations & religious fanaticism out of the equation!

    • gayguy

      Remember that Lucia. A lesson you should learn.

    • Rodger T

      Present evidence that your “devil” exists outside your mind.

      • Random66

        Well based on todays posts James Parker is one name that should get the ball rolling.

        • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

          Oh seeing that on the news made me feel ill – the parents & teachers thinking he was so wonderful & happily let their kids sleep at his house etc. Interesting the former teacher called him a pied piper like it was a good thing when the legend is actually associated with the death/disappearance of many children!

          • Random66

            Yeah it’s funny how when these things come to light people always say ‘oh he seemed so normal, so nice’. It would seem these sick bastards make a conscious decision to find employment in areas that will give them access to children. Evil, through and through.

          • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

            I know and it’s really sad for the good men out there – how are we supposed to assess who is good and who is a predator when the predators are so good at charming their way into people’s lives. People like James Parker make it that much harder for the much needed good man to get involved in children’s lives – whether as teachers, pastors, youth leaders, communiuty leaders, coaches or whatever. It doesnt sound like the kids or the community had a chance – ee had so many people fooled.

        • Rodger T

          The PoS J Parker is totally responsible for his own reprehensible actions ,to infer that the Debble made him do it,is to shift the blame from him to an imaginary character,who by the way if you read the christian yarn ,killed considerably less persons than `ol God himself,so I`ll leave it up to you as to who is the bigger arsehole and a danger to humanity.

          • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

            Totally agree Parker is completely responsible for his own actions. The devil cannot *make* anyone do anything (unless the person is possessed). Generally all he can do is suggest, and he doesn’t suggest the most heinous crimes all at once, he starts small and wears away at your conscience.

          • Rodger T

            Lucia,not only are you the Vaticans head cheerleader ,you are Lucifers personal secretary too?

            just yanking ur chain : ) or rosary beads

          • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

            :)

            Know your enemy, as they say!

      • http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

        You may as well ask her to present evidence that God exists too :-) Faith is called faith for a reason, it is only when ones faith marginalises and condemns other people – many of whom will remain strangers, that it becomes a problem.

        • Rodger T

          It is called faith because it is not knowledge.
          Until proof is presented ,the entire “god did done diddly done did it” argument is completely irrelevant on any given issue.

  • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

    Polish Pride,

    Your understanding of God’s omnipresence looks pantheistic to me and I’m not saying that Cam is the devil.

    • Polish Pride

      and whos to say that is not what the bible intended that would be a literal interpretation. Not one that would serve the churches though mind you

  • alex

    The belief that there is Satan is an insult to the majesty of God. The only sin is to fail to see God in everyone, everything and everywhere. The whole notion that God will send people to Hell is blasphemy; we send ourselves to hell with our egoism. Sadly too many so called Christians haven’t the critical faculties to realize how the early institutionalized Church perverted Christ’s message by adopting ideas more suited to some lustful, angry pagan god.

    • LesleyNZ

      Are you saying that you believe Satan (the devil) is not known to God? Why would Satan be an insult to the majesty of God? What about this verse from the Bible? (The “Son of God” being Jesus Christ): 1 John 3:8
      “8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.”
      It is true that some churches perverted (and still do) Christ’s message by adopting ideas more suited to some lustful, angry pagan god. Romans 1:21-22.
      ” 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.”

      • alex

        Satan, as an entity separate from humans, was a figment of the medieval imagination. Perhaps a hang over from Manicheanism. In the earlier church, Satan was just a personification of our egotism and turning away from God. It is utter nonsense to talk about Satan as being some malevolent being walking around “tempting” us. That belief is up there with seances, Voodoo and ouja boards. The Jewish faith traditionally has no concept of Satan. So I’ve never understood why Christianity needs one either. To me the Satan concept amounts to a theological abdication of personal responsibility. The only person creating hell is one’s own self-centeredness.

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