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Why Cut and Run is Not an Option

by Whaleoil on August 20, 2012

Phil Goff wants to cut and run, but that is not an option. David Shearer doesn’t really know what to say about it. John Key is unequivocal, we will not cut and run. Labour has been politicising these latest deaths by attacking John Key for not going to a funeral and calling for withdrawal.

Read this comment from a soldier who has lost 4 friends who he served with in Afghanistan:

As a former NZ infantry soldier and having deployed to Afghanistan I believe I can comment on this thread. This year alone I have lost 4 friends in Afghanistan, having served closely with 3 of them, most recently Corporal Tamatea. As sad as the situation is the consensus among all my mates still serving is that the last thing they want is to be withdrawn from theatre. As far as they’re concerned they have a job to do and a duty to uphold which they haven’t fulfilled. To them, 2013 is to soon to come out. All this talk about John Key having no respect? He went to the homes of my friends(Durrer and Malone) and offered his personal condolences then, remember he also has a family and an obligation to them. Ask anybody serving now and they’ll tell you that’s how they feel. On backing Labour because they would prefer that our troops were withdrawn sooner rather than later. We were sent in by labour in the first place, I served in Afghanistan under a Labour government. In summary, as soldiers they know the risks of deploying to such environments as Afghanistan, they know there is a chance they could pay the ultimate price. As a former infantryman I know that Luke would be happy that he died doing what he loved to do- soldiering. He was an excellent operator, with exceptional “soldier skills”. Today there are a lot of heavy hearts in the NZDF because of this tragedy. Mourn for them and their families, and pray that nothing else happens to the rest of our brave men and women serving there but know that they would all rather be there making a difference than here. All my currently serving friends want to deploy to do there part(some again).

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  • Phar Lap

    I leave the untimely death of the three NZ soldiers at the feet of the Lie-bour and Red/Green Parties.It was their mealy mouth insistence that the SAS be brought back to NZ.They were.Now we see the results of the SAS cover for the Army Construction crews,being removed.Shame on you Lie-bour and Red/Green bloodsuckers, you gambled the safety of our brave soldiers for political points over the elected NZ Government.

  • thor42

    I have to say that as much as the troops would like to stay there, I would rather have them back home, alive and unhappy, rather than back home, dead and happy (if you know what I mean).

    Given a choice between having them happy-but-dead or having them unhappy-but-alive, I know which one I’d choose for them. Unhappy-but-alive.

    The soldiers have been extremely hard-working and brave, but sometimes things just don’t work out. IMO, this is one of those times. The fact that many of the locals don’t seem to want us there makes it that much easier to leave.

    • toby_toby

      Why do you think that you should get a say in whether a soldier puts him or herself in harm’s way? Is that not up to the soldier? From NZ soldiers online I’ve seen nothing but support for NZ presence in Afghanistan. They are there, they see what goes on and we don’t. Who the hell are civilians to tell a soldier that they should not be in harm’s way?

  • Vlad

    This is an admirable response to a difficult situation. I do not like reading any posts or public comment that tries to make political capital from the deaths of these fine people. These soldiers followed their duties with honour and very sadly died in their profession. An earlier government sent them; the present government supported their presence. Stand together in this. They have done well for our country and a decent cause (the protection of an abused people from killers); I am proud of them but feel very sad for their families.

  • caleb

    I served with Luke. Top man.

  • Markm

    An interesting TV3 item on the soldiers deaths by Duncan Garner tonight.
    He was quoting a media source with inside knowledge of the situation in Afghanistan.
    He said the Taliban will have specifically planned this attack for the purposes of influencing public opinion in New Zealand supporting a withdrawal of our troops.

    MrGarner then dismally failed to join the dots.
    The Labour Party are using the still warm bodies of our soldiers to make political capital against National , and in the words of Labour Leader David Shearer, demanding Key, bring back the soldiers at the same time or later than National have already announced.

    Labour are acting as the unpaid PR arm of the Taliban .
    The Taliban are achieving their goal through the useful idiots Goff and Shearer who are helping them shape public opinion.

    • Phar Lap

      What could we expect from Lie-bour and Red/Green wankers who have never had a real job.Goff is a walking disaster ,and would make Helen Clark almost human.As for Shearer ,there is not hope for him,he is the original dead man walking ,except for some reason or other he reminds me of Forest Gump.

    • niggly

      All the Taliban (or their sympathisers) need to do is bookmark the NZ Labour Party website and read their press releases like this one where Phil Goof comes across as a pathetic, defeated coward who wants to cut and run because western blood was shed:
      “Labour’s Foreign Affairs spokesperson Phil Goff says that staying longer in Bamyan will not achieve any significant purpose.”
      Or David Shearer: “We must bring our troops home as soon as practicable,”
      http://www.labour.org.nz/news/labour-mourns-the-loss-of-kiwi-soldiers-in-afghanistan

      How Labour plays into the hands of the Taliban and their sympathisers. What a coup it must be for the Taliban to read that the Labour Party, the very party that sent the NZDF to Afghanistan in the first place, can flip-flop because kiwis have been killed (this just reinforces the Taliban and AQ’s well known view that the West are weak when their own blood is shed).
      Labour are pathetic. The very least they should do is refrain from politiking in their press releases and stop being a defecto propaganda puppet of the Taliban.(The best Labour could do is support the troops being there, the very same party that sent them in in the first place, and present a united front with the (Nat) Govt against the Taliban, but hey, that’s Labour for you).
      At least the Greens (the very party that doesn’t want NZ in Afghanistan at all) are intelligent enough to refrain from politiking in their press releases (and not play into the Taliban propaganda machine). A dignified Greens press release that again shows up Labour:
      http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/green-party-expresses-sadness-killed-soldiers

  • davewin

    This is not the time for carping and criticism, but I cannot allow this time to go past without saying that the piece on the Larry Williams show tonight from Goff was the most appalling piece of politicking over the lives of our people in time of war I believe I have ever heard. The people are there now, and they will have to serve out time until our obligations are complete.

    It is the task of politicians at this time to do nothing to either harm the operation, or put those there in any greater danger than they are now.

    There are serious questions to be asked. These must await the return of our people in the fullness of time. My greatest sympathies go to the Defence Forces, but particularly to those people who gave their lives. “Greater Love hath no man than this; that he lays down his life for his Friends”. RIP

    • Alloytoo

      “Larry Williams show tonight from Goff was the most appalling piece of politicking over the lives of our people in time of war I believe I have ever heard.”
      So true.
      Appalling betrayal of our troops on the group, and an appalling grasp of our geopolitical responsibilities.

  • Phar Lap

    Goff a person long past his use by date.Thirty mumble years in Parliament.What an insignificant little rat.First of all he wants all the diplomatic corp to stay where they are posted all around the world ,doing nothing and at a great expense to NZ.He leaks confidential data yet gets away with it.He raised hell with his associates and the media to bring back the SAS .Yet he wants to blame the present Govt for the soldiers deaths.Sounds to me it is Lie-bour Party dirty politics over the early deaths of our young soldiers.Goff should cut and run instead of the NZ Army in Afghanistan.

  • rightoverlabour

    Not a place for politics. But I see this in the media. “and an air strike may be carried out against those responsible.” End of quote. If we had a fighter wing, that is. But all the experts argued that we don’t need one… I guess no -one actually asked the soldiers on the ground. Very sad day in New Zealand , tainted further by the point scoring of desk -bound bureaucrats who will never experience the horror of the battlefield. To the soldiers doing their duty, be strong, we salute you. RIP.

  • Whafe

    Being at home crook today, I have had considerable time thinking through the plays of the day from the left and the right…

    I think the respect John Key had for the soldiers, families etc etc was nothing but exceptional to me…. Then marry this up with Goff on the radio etc etc, what a scumbag human being Goff is….

    I am truly lost for words, wish I was a far better orator like some whom post on here. But I don’t rate the left at all, however seeing the performance of all things left today, you are all nothing but scum….

    To try to gain political points over a tragic event like this is shocking…. Liabour, reap what you sow….

  • Troy

    I hope Le Sphincter reads this and publicly apologises for his previous comments on another post. Front up or shut up. I served more than 20 yrs in the military and those previous remarks you have made are dishonourable, disgraceful and shameful. I for one am tired of assholes like you that denigrate and politicise at times like this. You sit in the comfort of your home criticising from a couch – pitiful coward. If I was to meet you in person, you would discover with no other means than contact counselling how most military personnel think about you and what you post. Enough!

  • GregM

    As most regulars here know. I have been there twice. Is the deployment worth it ? YES.
    When you see the look on 15-20 little girls faces going to their new schoolroom for the first time, and having a village TV for the first time, and the village now has a phone and reliable water supply, is it worth it ? YES IT IS.
    Should we pull out ?. Absolutely not. Kiwi’s finish what we start,and we don’t leave our brothers in arms from other countries to take up the slack. that is a concept that most politicians can’t get their head around, given that a lot of them have never completed anything worthwhile, ever.
    Kia Kaha my family at NZDF, we are all brothers at times like this.

    R.I.P. Tamatea, Baker and Harris, and we thank you.
    To the families, I cannot imagine your despair, but always remember your loved ones improved the lives of a lot of seriously impoverished people. Be proud of them, we are.

    “At the going down of the sun,
    and in the morning,
    we WILL remember them”.

    Greg.

    • Troy

      Well said brother.

    • 2ndAmendment

      Mr Key said the Cabinet’s preference was to pull out in April, rather than next September which would have been a “worse-case scenario”.

      Cut. Run.

      Just goes to show that active duty military service should be a requirement for voting and for standing for Parliament.

      • Agent BallSack

        Fuck off. Who pays for the NZDF? The businesses and workers of NZ. What a stupid fucking suggestion, stick to bold type and slagging off beneficiaries.

    • GPT

      Thank you

  • http://www.facebook.com/edwin.wigmore Edwin Wigmore

    Yes, now is a good time to ask, was it a good idea to disband the air force? I was told by a senior military strategist at the time that the decision by Clarke would eventually cost lives and that she incapable of understanding the big picture. The only pity is that the prohibitive cost of rearming our air force is stopping its reintroduction.

    • Dumrse

      And equipping an aging fast jet fleet in a manner to serve in Afgan would have bankrupted the military at the time.

    • 2ndAmendment

      We could by F18s pretty cheap, and they’re nuclear capable.

      For Afganistan, though, better off with A-10s, Apaches, or… Harriers.
      (We could have bought the RAF’s Harriers when they stupidly sold them last year)

  • Markm

    more comment on news this morning that the taliban action are a deliberate attempt to win over public sentiment to take troops home.
    Labour must be getting a back hander from the Taliban for their exemplary PR work.
    Make no mistake , Labours actions are causing deaths

  • 2ndAmendment

    Except according to RadioSocialism & Stuff we’re cutting & running in April

    What would not cutting and running look like?
    Sending another couple of regiments. Something for all those dole bludgers perhaps? You want a benefit: fine. You’re off to Burnham now and Afganistan in 6 months time.

    • blazer

      pandering to the U.S is what Afghanistan is all about..has not and will not achieve anything except the approval of the U.S and the death of good young men and women.NZ should become a neutral country.

      • toby_toby

        I despise neutrals. They lack the balls to make a stand and quietly make deals on the side (think Switzerland WWII era). Besides which, a small country like NZ cannot afford to be ‘neutral’. Like it or not, we need the big players.

        • blazer

          being neutral is a USP as far as attracting immigrants and NZ’s isolation is another plus.’Big players’ merely means big crooked banks.

          • toby_toby

            We have plenty of unique selling positions without being a spineless neutral.
            Big crooked banks? Don’t make me laugh. Being neutral doesn’t mean we won’t be part of the big banking conspiracy you fear.

          • blazer

            being a shameless ,fawning sycophant to American hegemony is hardly inspiring.

          • toby_toby

            You must keep your money under the mattress.

          • pukakidon

            Unlike your good buddies Neutral Switzerland who took billions of stolen Jewish gold and money from the Nazi party members and kept it for themselves when it was unclaimed by both Nazis and Jews Murdered during the war.

          • blazer

            NZ is not Switzerland.Your position relies on your unsubstantiated prejudice.Btw Switzerland is not ostracised by the international community.

  • GPT

    Every time some wanker uses this tragedy for political gain by saying bring the troops home they are telling the Taliban they only have to kill a few more of our soldiers and we will leave. They are risking our troops lives for politics.

  • Arto Dostoyevsky

    We should cut… and run… cos we aint gonna win…

    • Rodger T

      Arto,that`s a funny name for a Frenchman.

    • pukakkdon

      Promise to do a job and then reneg and run away. Sorry not the NZ way, never has been and never will be. You are a cowardly twat. Go back to Italy nonce.

      • blazer

        what ‘job’ was that we promised again?

        • pukakidon

          Although Labour promised NZ troops to help rebuild after the destruction caused by the Taliban, NZ was committed to getting the region of responsibility back on track. We should not run away until we have finished off the project and allow Japan to finish off their commitment, and withdraw as planned and in a organised manner. I have never known honest kiwis to agree to complete a job and then reneg. I guess the Generation ME has a different opinion.

          • blazer

            What does ‘back on track’ mean.The usual former CIA stooge has been installed,deployment timeframes and withdrawal announced ,and it will take about 5 mins for the Taleban to regain the ascendancy.A waste of time,money and more importantly ,young lives.

  • pukakidon

    Although it is very sad for us to lose one of our women soldiers. I am sure that Jacinda stands for all women and there is no doubt that are worth the same as any man. Her saying was that woman can do anything. So next time you see a woman and put them down, think of the brave selfless woman like Jacinda that represent us in the military and other selfless jobs. God bless her.

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