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A sensible policy from a senior Australian Politician

by Whaleoil on November 16, 2012

Aussie politicians are stepping up over boy buggering Catholic priests:

Senior federal Liberal frontbencher Christopher Pyne has declared that priests should report child sex abuse crimes revealed in the confessional to police.

On Wednesday, Mr Pyne – who is a practising Catholic – said that as a member of Parliament, it would be wrong of him to advise citizens not to report crimes, particularly something as serious as child abuse.

”If a priest, or anyone else, is aware of the sexual abuse of children that is going on, I think there is an obligation on them to report it to the appropriate authorities,” he told ABC Radio.

On Tuesday, in the wake of Prime Minister Julia Gillard’s announcement of a royal commission on child abuse, Cardinal George Pell said that the seal of confession was ”inviolable”.

Mr Pell said that if a priest knew what would be confessed prior to the confession, then they should refuse to hear it.

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  • Andrei

    Repulsive politicians seeking power and total control over the minds of the people.

    The only real talent most politicians have it the ability to lie and mislead, usually because they are completely useless at anything that would actually generate real wealth.

    Be that as it may the confessional is sacred and this has been recognized for many many years but to those who would lord over us – the cunts who want to control every aspect of our lives the fact the the Church is held in far higher esteem than they, political scuzzbuckets they be, is an anathema to these low lives.

    Just like the communists before them our political elite are trying to undermine the Church and are more than happy to use Alinsky’s tactics to do it.

    And in your continual “boy buggering” anti Catholic posts you are playing the role of “useful idiot” for a bunch of thoroughly nasty individuals who are little higher on the scuzz scale than pedophiles and individuals who are far far more dangerous to our children than priests, being as they are fucking up our civilizations future and corrupting an entire generation

    • Mediaan

      Boy oh boy, they did a thorough job on you, Andrei.

      It is more than time for us to quit this double standard where we pretend the Catholic church is not a criminal organisation of long standing, behind a lot of the worst crimes in our community.

    • Mitch82

      You’re going to give yourself a heart attack or a rectal prolapse getting so wound up about this, Andrei.

      Please, continue.

      • Travis Poulson

        I’d rather have a heart attack than a rectal prolapse. Far less awkward to deal with.

        • Mitch82

          I’d rather Andrei has the heart attack, and Redbaiter has the rectal prolapse. Just me tho..

    • manuka416

      The church should do everything it can to protect people from sexual predators and abusers, such protection includes the perpatrators facing civil prosecution for their crimes. How such an obligation fits in with confession is the question. What is “repulsive” is the actions (or inactions) of the church which allow abusers to continue in their crimes.

    • Alsh

      The only thing that Marx got right was that religion is the opiate of the masses

  • Anonymouse Coward

    I sometimes wonder if the RC Church ever gave any thought to what is in their mission statement, written by the bloke that set up the organisation in the first place.

    Yno the bit that said “Suffer not the little children.”

    • Bunswalla

      Mate that makes no sense. What that guy was supposed to have said was actually: “Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is
      the kingdom of God”
      It isn’t anything to do with actual suffering – it means allow them to come to me, and unfortunately that’s what Catholic priests have been saying to parents for hundreds of years, with predictable consequences.

  • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

    Priests will not give up the secrets of the confessional. It doesn’t matter what laws are changed to compel them to do so, they just won’t tell. Any Catholic who knows what Confession is should know that.

    A New Zealand priest, Fr Francis Vernon Douglas, was tortured and killed by the Japenese in 1943 for refusing to say anything about what he may or may not have heard in Confession. Knowing that he was about to die, he had his own confession heard in the presence of his torturers so that they would not then try to force his confessor to reveal what had been said. That is the only way around the seal of the Confessional. Here is part of the account of his death:

    In Paete, the local chief of Police, Basilio Y. Agbay, told one of his captors that the man was a priest, but he replied, ‘the man is a spy’. Exhausted after a day in the sun, he was taken inside the church, by now a torrid dungeon. He was first taken to the sacristy where the terrorized people could hear the moans as he was being tortured. Later, he was dragged to the baptistery where he was tied to the baptismal font, and again severely beaten until blood splashed on the font and surroundings. Stripped to the waist, clad only in white slacks with his torso and arms black and blue and oozing with blood, he was tied to the left post under the choir loft. All the torture and pain seemed concentrated on him while the 250 looked on.

    His bleeding and battered body immediately reminded the religious Filipinos of the scourging of Jesus at the pillar. ‘Yet ours were the sufferings he endured… He was harshly treated, but unresisting and silent, and he humbly submitted…’ (Isaiah 53:4-7). For three days and three nights, he was forced to stand. One of the soldiers hit him on the forehead with the butt of his sword and immediately blood gushed out all over his face.

    The others were allowed to lie down and sleep. Throughout all this, he uttered not a word. Instead, he kept his eyes on the altar and continued to recite the Rosary. A bowl of rice was placed at his feet, which he did not touch. His blood-stained cassock lay on the floor beside him. Finally, perhaps fearing that his end was near, he asked for the local parish priest to hear his confession. This was done in the presence of his torturers, lest they later force his confessor to break the seal of confession. Shortly afterwards, bloodied and bruised, he was bundled into a truck that sped away in the direction of Santa Cruz and Los Baños, where there were many prisoners of war, including priests and religious. He was never seen again.

    Why was Vernon singled out for such horrible torture? Did he refuse to talk in order to preserve the seal of confession, or information held in confidence? As he was being interrogated in Pillila before being abducted, neighbors heard him remonstrate with the military police, ‘You have no right to ask me that question, and I cannot, in conscience, answer it’. Whatever the reason, one thing is certain, here was a strong man who suffered in silence rather than betray his friends.

    As an early report published in The Far East, December 1945 stated: ‘What Father Douglas suffered in Paete made a deep impression on the people of that town. The
    Filipinos say that he seemed to be like our Lord Himself, as he stood there, tied to the post in the Church, constantly beaten and ill-treated, but always with unquestionable patience. They expressed the belief that he suffered made him a kind of savior to the town.

    Source: Bangor to Bobbio.

    Catholic priests (and Orthodox priests) have been given the power by Our Lord to forgive sins – that is the purpose of Confession. As Andrei says, it is sacred. It is as if they are talking to Jesus Christ Himself when a person confesses to a priest. It was the first thing granted by Our Lord to priests after His Resurrection. See John 20:21-23.

    • Mitch82

      And you wonder why people think the Church has something to hide.

    • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

      Lock teh priest up then for aiding and abetting kiddy fiddlers

      • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

        Kiddy fiddlers are unlikely to go to Confession, given that those who are in serious mortal sin and can’t control themselves will also not be frequenters of confession, because if they were they would have availed themselves of the graces available and been able to resist kiddy fiddling and all that led up to that in the first place.

        But let’s say, for argument’s sake, that a kiddy fiddler does want absolution and therefore goes to confession. What the priest can do is make absolution conditional on the person turning themselves in to police. If they don’t turn themselves, they don’t get absolution.

        The penalties for a priest who reveals confession to anyone are severe, even if they do it to save their own life, which is automatic excommunication that can only be removed by the Holy See.

        You’ll have to throw all priests in jail.

        For more info : The Seal of the Confessional

        • Mitch82

          That’s your problem. Perhaps you should reward Priests for protecting their Church and congregation from pedophiles instead of exiling them for doing the right thing.

          • Bunswalla

            No chance Mitch – they’ve been protecting their own for decades, moving them on quietly with a good recommendation to help them set up in “virgin” territory and continue their vile buggering.

        • Bunswalla

          On the contrary kiddy fiddlers often go to confession. They exchange useful information with the priest and get some good phone numbers too.

        • Bunswalla

          I see Sir Jimmy Savile got a knighthood or similar honour form the Pope too. Probably got some good leads while he was there.

    • Mitch82

      Also, the Seal Of Confession was a law passed by members of the church. John 20:21-23 only says that Priests can take confession to forgive sins. The fact that it’s recognized in law somewhat like lawyer-client privilege is beside the fact.

      The people have questions about what’s going on. If you’re going to hide behind a man-made Seal of Confession, you’re essentially saying “Fuck you, we’re not telling, try harder.”

    • Random66

      The man you describe Lucia was a man of character who was ‘strong enough to suffer in silence rather than betray his friends’. He is not to be confused with the scum who would rather make small children suffer and rely on their silence so his evil can continue. With regard to your belief that Catholic priests have been given power to forgive sins – that will forever be debated by those who follow Jesus and not the Pope. The curtain of the temple between the Holy Place and the Most Holy Place (where only the high priest could enter once a year to atone for the sins of the nation) was torn in two, from top to bottom upon the death of Jesus which symbolized the barrier between God and humanity was removed. Now all people were free to approach God (no human priest needed) because of Christ’s sacrifice for their sins. Jesus affectively is the highest priest ever and he atoned for our sins – end of story. If you read any commentary of John 20:21-23 in a protestant bible it will explain clearly that only God can forgive sins and that those verses are giving the disciples spirit filled power to preach the Good News about Jesus so that peoples sins might be forgiven. Just saying Lucia priests are not God, they merely work for him and are accountable to the same rules the rest of us are – I’m thinking come judgement day they will find this out for themselves.

      • conwaycaptain

        This man Fr Douglas would not betray his friends and comrades as they were fighting the evil of the Japanese Occupation. This is 180 degrees removed from protecting scum that do eveil, go to confession and say I am Forgiven and go and do it again. The Mafia etc hide behind this as well. Think what a priest could do if ne dobbed in the Mafia after a confession

        • Random66

          Didn’t I read the Vatican accepted one billion lire to bury a Mafia crime boss in basilica next to former popes. What do they say about birds of a feather…

          • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

            Don’t believe everything you read.

          • Lion_ess

            Particularly if it is contained within your posts.

          • Rodger T

            LoL Lucia, coming from you that`s pure comedy gold,considering you swallow everything your priests tell you concerning your imaginary deity.
            But then thats the beauty of living in a secular society,you can believe whatever superstitious ignorant twaddle you want to give you comfort,personally I prefer the real world.

          • Mitch82

            Shut up, you heretic. God is real.

            And he needs money.

          • Mitch82
          • Rodger T

            cmon` now Mitch,you know the rules ,anything good about the church is true anything bad is not.
            We don`t want Lucia having her ticket to heaven rescinded by something as trivial as a fact or evidence ,now do we?

      • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

        Confession (the Sacrament of Penance) proves Christ is God.

        In order that there might be a Sacrament of Penance, two things are required, both of which are, from a human point of view, almost impossible to find. First, one must create the penitent and, secondly, one must create a confessor. To create a penitent, one must take a man in his pride, enveloped in a glacial silence, which refuses to unburden its guilt, and say to him: “Thou shalt come to a man and kneel before him—a man who is perhaps no better than you are—and you shall tell him what you hide from yourself and your children. You shall tell him that which makes you blush; and you shall do all of this on your knees.”

        However difficult it may be to create a penitent who will confess everything with a firm purpose of amendment, it is even more difficult to create the confessor. Where find one empowered by God with authority to forgive sins? How train the human heart to heal the wounds of others, and then seal his lips forever that what he has learned as God’s representative be never revealed to men?

        Only God could bring these two creations together, for outside of His power and mercy, we would say: “Humanity is too proud, you will never have penitents”; “Humanity is too indiscreet, you will never have confessors.” And yet the sacrament exists. There are penitents because there are confessors, and there are penitents and confessors because Christ is God.

        Link: Confession proves Christ is God

        Amazing what I can find on my blog that I’ve forgotten about!

        • Bunswalla

          Yes that’s what happens when you make shit up – easily forgotten. Brilliant logic too, by the way, hard to pick a hole in it. Nietzsche and Sartre would be proud of it.
          Oh, except for the fact that it’s complete bollocks.

        • Mitch82

          How predictable that you’re calling this thread ‘hatred’ and ‘hysteria’ on your blog. The same is about true whenever a new development in gay marriage happens.

          So, so cute.

    • manuka416

      Lucia, that example you give of Fr Douglas is of a priest who did what was morally right, despite the consequence for him. That’s what is wanted from a priest’s role with an abuser – a morally right outcome. The RC church is so tarnished today because of the morally wrong actions of its leaders, e.g. the paedo priests and the protection of abusers. You can’t use your morally-right example to justify all that is wrong with the protectionism of confession.

      • Mitch82

        You see, Manuka, we attain a whole new level of hypocrisy when the Seal Of Confession, a man made law, is inviolable even in the case of a pedophile’s confession, yet the majority of the Old Testament is ignored now because.. y’know.. times have changed, and it’s so hard to find good rocks to stone insolent children with.

    • Bunswalla

      So sacred. Like a cow.

  • Lion_ess

    A male dominated institution that bans women from holding any significant role, that deliberately protects it’s own fagging pedophiles from criminal prosecution, just shuffling them around to re-offend in a different location. When will people wake up.

    • Mitch82

      What could go wrong?

  • Mostly_Harmless

    I think a good compromise would be for Catholic priests to be subject the same rules as counsellors and psychologists – confidentiality except when the client / confessor poses a significant risk to himself or others.

    • manuka416

      Yep, that would be good. Would require law changes.

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