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They’re after your children now

by Whaleoil on November 18, 2012

Labour’s conference has passed the under 18 voter remit…where they want the votering age lowered to 16…this crazy stuff….the Labour party is now going to peddle their stuff at the school gate and allowing unionized teachers to teach socialism in the classroom.

Kindergarten politics or pedo politics?

Basically Labour can’t connect with adults. This is a very worrying remit to pass.

I am very concerned that teachers will be given the rights to preach left wing politics under the guise of curriculum and then will be audited by the ERO to ensure they have delivered the left wing politics.

There is no way this measure should even be contemplated until proper impartial Civics classes are initiated in our schools, but watch the teacher unions oppose that too.

We now have the strange situation where Labour wants to raise the drinking age but lower the voting age…I think they have priorities ass-backwards.

Mr_V4

I’m sure Labour has run the numbers as well. Given that most kids get their political views from their parents, in effect the result would be an increase in votes from demographics that have more kids (if they bother to vote).
I guess Labours is hoping all those benny families with more kids than they can afford will turn up to vote.
truthinblogging

Did you accept money for this blog post Cam?

Would be really helpful if you stated at the start of each blog post whether it was a paid piece or not.
- Travis Poulson
  
  That’s not you, is it Deborah Pead? The barrow you’re pushing has a flat tire.
- Honcho
  
  Thats a stupid question, if you look around this page you will find googleleads, adchoices and digitalads, of course he is accepting money from adverts per page view as do a hell of a lot of other popular blogs around cyberspace.
  
  If you what you really meant to ask if he was pedalling an agenda, then one would be forced to ask you the same thing.
  - Steve
    
    Oh come on, Honcho, in the context of recent events, we all know what truthinblogging means. Personally, I don’t give a shit which posts if any are ‘prompted’ by PR firm financial encouragement. But I’m not a regular reader. It’s not unreasonable for a regular to wonder when a line has been bought. Cameron always says he has nothing to hide – why not indicate when he’s being ‘sponsored’ shall we say?
- Steve
  
  Don’t be silly, truthinblogging. No PR firm would pay for opinion this nuts.
- owl
  
  I know for a fact he never got a dime for that post..bet my reputation on it
- http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil
  
  How about fuck off you gutless anonymous coward.
  - Mediaan
    
    The right tends to have sound business awareness, as well as sound ethics. Business would not spend on PR (which tends to be very costly, ask PR-practising leftists like Dr Brian Edwards) unless there was a business stream of revenue coming in from it, directly or indirectly. Business is accountable to its shareholders, and in general acts responsibly towards its shareholders.
    - Mediaan
      
      Correction, I should have sent that comment to truth blogging.
  - Caleb Anderson
    
    What’s worse, an anonymous comment username or the anonymity of not stating when you’ve accepted money for blog posts?
    - stinkeye
      
      So who the hell would be paying for this blog post then?
Phar Lap

Even arse backward as in leap frog.Yet is shows the mentality of such a group of power crazy sickos.Still it seems,if it comes to pass the vote for sixteen year olds,it is logical that that would be the new legal drinking age,and also good for the prostitute business.Sixteen year old voters will want the same benefits ,as the eighteen year old voters get now.Who knows with sicko thicko Lie-bour Shearer or Cun*liffe leading the sickos,in a short time fourteen year olds will get the vote.Even the rainbows will be one hand clapping,Yeah Right.
gavinc

oh I can see the next Labour election bribe now – free ipads and smartphones for all school children approaching the voting age and a cheap house for mum (and dad if he is still around)
- Mr_V4
  
  All paid for by Wussells magic money machine don’t forget.
Steve (North Shore)

“allowing unionized teachers to teach socialism in the classroom”?
I thought that’s all they taught
- Teachersrock
  
  Only right wing idiots think that.
  - Pissedoffyouth
    
    Teachersrock, what do they teach then?
    
    Clearly not responsibility, work ethic or financial skills?
    
    Please enlighten us, because i was in high school only a couple of years ago and I lrnd itz ok 2 wrt lyk dis n examz, that being gay is ok, here have some condoms, 13 year olds who don’t know what sex is!
    
    Yet at least twice a year rainbow youth would visit us, only once I remember of a bank or career advisor visiting, goes to show whats important these days I guess?
    
    Oh don’t forget that if you don’t go to uni you’ll be useless to society.
    
    Oh and teacher only days all the time, thanks teachers union!
    - Teachersrock
      
      I see mummy and daddy have done their job well with you.
      - Pissedoffyouth
        
        Yes they did very well.
        
        You going to answer my question or just dodge it?
      - Teachersrock
        
        I will answer it, but it will be pointless as you just admitted, you are a lost brainwashed cause.
        
        School is not there to teach you work ethics or financial tools. It is there to teach you English, Math, Science, Health etc,,, what you do with it is up to you.
        
        Oh and seeing as you seem to be a silver spoon twerp you clearly missed the teenage birth stats we have, and that condoms in high schools are quite important.
      - GregM
        
        If that’s the case, why are 20% of kids failing English, maths, science, and leave school financially and socially illiterate?
      - Teachersrock
        
        Because in High School there is a thing called personal responsibility. If you do not turn up for class then you are not going to learn. Are you.
      - GregM
        
        Good answer. I agree.
      - Macca
        
        Pissedoffyouth, Greg and Mediaan, I don’t know why you guys bother trying to have a rational discussion with Teachers Cock! He is nothing but a pathetic little brain washed socialist sniveller and is incapable of anything other than singing from the same old hackneyed song sheet! I just hope to God that he’s actually taking the piss and is not actually a teacher – could you imagine the poor confused wee souls coming out of his classes at the end of each day? No wonder we have so many youth suicides!
      - Mediaan
        
        Total rubbish. Basic reading and literacy is the job of Primary School teachers. I
        
        A child has to read fairly well at eight, very well by ten. If this is not the case, the worse primary teachers have handed us not an asset but a costly liability who might even end up in prison.
        
        The non-reader at ten is typically a sad, worried, anxious young person who is going to need remedial work plus confidence-building from another agency. Or else – big social problem.Stop trying to shift responsibility.
        
        High School level is intended to add content and develop personal work styles and research skills.
        
        High School and Uniare to enable (what should be) the well-established literacy to be put to work. What happens in post-Labour schools however is that kids are turning up needing remedial reading, not only at High School but also at Uni.
      - Pissedoffyouth
        
        Lost brainwashed cause? I’m the opposite, I didn’t swallow the bullshit that teachers try spewing out to all the students.
        
        Silver spoon twerp? Sure, if you count middle class parents and going to a low decile school as silver spoon.
        
        Its funny that on one hand you agree that personal responsibility is a part of school, then why do schools insist on not giving students 0? Resits? You don’t get a resit if you fail at your job, you get fired.
        
        So why don’t schools teach people how to become self sufficient, rather then teach them how to be uni students or solo mums?
      - Teachersrock
        
        Clearly you have never worked for a real boss who will allow you to correct an error you brain washed sliver spoon twit.
Teachersrock

I have taught kids much younger than 16 with more political knowledge and a clearer head than most adult voters. To dismiss this idea out of hand is a little stupid and I can see already some are telling the lies I would expect from the right.
- Zephyr Cobalt
  
  Remit #32 Labour Party Lies and more Lies Propaganda Division. Sunday 18th November
  Target Whale Oil and flood them with left wing crap. If we target them long enough they might start believing our ridiculous ideas. Heaven help us we believe them. Teachers have nothing much to do because they have 8 weeks of holidays on the horizon. Get them on-board.
  - Teachersrock
    
    It is so cute when the right wing attack Labour and teachers all in one big lie.
    - davcav
      
      What lie?
    - Agent BallSack
      
      I see Kosh has discovered how to use spell check. Probably from a cute 16yo boy who “pwetty pwease Mr Teacher can I have the vote” *fawns*.
- http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious
  
  “I have taught kids much younger than 16 with more political knowledge and a clearer head than most adult voters”
  
  So you have met “most voters” then have you? Doubtful given most voters are voting centre right and therefore, unlikely to give you the time of day…especially since your comments are indicative of a rather low IQ (nonsensical comments & massive generalisations tend to lead to such assumptions).
  - Teachersrock
    
    Given the average voter has no idea what they are voting for, or only vote a particular way because that is what their parents have done, I am happy to stand by what I said, as well as be safe in the knowledge that I am a heck of a lot smarter than you will ever be.
    - davcav
      
      Or what their teacher has taught them?
    - GregM
      
      “I am happy to stand by what I said, as well as be safe in the knowledge that I am a heck of a lot smarter than you will ever be.”
      
      That’s why you are a teacher on wages, while a lot of us here run businesses, employ people and add value to the economy.
      Gee. I wish I was as smart as you.
      - Teachersrock
        
        Without teachers, you would have none of that.
      - GregM
        
        Agree with that too. Apart from a few destructive years at state schools, my tradesman dad and post office worker mother, sent us kids to private school. There I was taught by awesome and inspirational people who I still hold in high regard.
      - Teachersrock
        
        Of which you can find thousands of similar amazing teachers in public schools.
      - GregM
        
        I agree with that too. When Charter schools are up and running, the thousands of very good state school teachers will have opportunities to further their careers outside the union dominated state system. I wish them every success. Meanwhile the union Klingons will continue to be mediocre at best, and will continue to pursue their own agendas and continue to fail our kids.
      - Teachersrock
        
        Well given that almost every teacher in the state system is in the union, given we are one of the best education systems in the world, your claim of mediocrity is pure garbage.
      - stinkeye
        
        One of the best? Like, how we have a large percentage of people who fail?
        A large percentage of kids who can’t read or write?
      - Grizz30
        
        I would be careful there. All things considered, an educated population adds value to an economy. The trick is to have the population to think for themselves and no necessarily believe everything their teachers tell them.
      - Mediaan
        
        Plus, many of us would have taught at some point in their careers.
    - davcav
      
      Funny thing is, your a teacher, most of us are not. I bet most of us here are one hell of a lot more intelligent, worldly, knowledgeable, ethical and hard working than you TS.
      
      How do you measure smart TS? Just for the record.
      - Teachersrock
        
        And yet all you non teachers seem to think you know better when it comes to teaching children. Wow, go figure.
        
        Oh and I would gladly put my ethics against yours any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
    - http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious
      
      Hardly – we all know those who can’t ‘do’ teach.
      
      And a teacher can be anything – given your nonsensical comments I would say (and hope to God) that you don’t teach English.
      
      And no it is not good teachers that determine the future success of a child.
      
      Yes good teachers are part of it the process, but ultimately it primarily comes down to the child’s own ability (you can’t teach someone into having a high IQ), their own determination and the amount of support they get at home.
- GregM
  
  Yes I think it is worth discussing. That way, we can prove that it a completely ridiculous suggestion that only lefties in a last gasp of desperation would even suggest.
  And yes, I do think it’s about time kids were taught civic studies, and not just the socialist and entitlement crap that lefty academics, who have never had a real job or run a business, are poisoning our kids with.
  - Teachersrock
    
    As usual Greg I see you have no idea what you are on about.
    - GregM
      
      Do you disagree that we should discuss this? or do you disagree that kids should be taught civic studies? Or are you just disagreeing with everything as usual.
      - Teachersrock
        
        The nonsense that you are spouting about socialist etc…
      - GregM
        
        When teachers are teaching primary school children how to protest against the elected government ( Christchurch schools re alignments ),
        Then yes I stand by my comments.
      - Teachersrock
        
        Like I said, the usual nonsense.
- davcav
  
  “I have indoctrinated kids much younger than 16 with my political knowledge
  and they now have a religion stronger than most adult voters.” /Fixed
  - Teachersrock
    
    How typical of the right to try and change someones words and tell lies.
    - davcav
      
      It’s what you meant though.
      - Teachersrock
        
        No it is not. It is the lie you want to believe.
    - davcav
      
      Lets put it another way:
      
      Percentage wise, how many of those kids younger than 16 with more political knowledge and clearer heads would vote for National?
      - Teachersrock
        
        More often than not the split between left and right (once we had explored all that the parties offered) was about even. Sometimes you would get a lurch left or right, but more often than not it was evenly spread.
        
        I know this is not what you what to hear, or will believe but the fact is this bullshit people are spouting about all teens voting for the left is pure crap out of the mouths of people who have no idea.
      - Mediaan
        
        So, you had “explored all that the parties offered”.
        
        May we take it your views expressed here give away the content of your teaching? (“Have no idea”, “Typical to tell lies”, “Stupid”, “Silver spoon in mouth”, “Out of touch morons”, “Throw abuse and bullshit”, “Live on Bullshit Mountain”, “Need to wake up”, etc)
      - Teachersrock
        
        I never allow students to know my personal views until they have made up their own minds.
        
        Unlike the right on here I prefer students who are not sheep.
- Alsh
  
  You mean they subscribed to your left wing views, that what you mean by clear head, don’t you? Those snivelling toadies that appear on the news condemning the Government not subscribing to Keyoto crap.
- Mediaan
  
  So, you admit that you push your political views on to helpless classes of students you are supposed to be instructing in useful skills.
  - Teachersrock
    
    Telling lies I see Mediaan,
LesleyNZ

16 year olds are barely out of nappies. Labour is really lacking in wisdom and sound judgement. Sounds like a communist manifesto ideal – get to the younger generation before they can think for themselves. If Labour believe Socialism should be taught then they and the teacher’s union will not object to compulsory lessons on the Holocaust. http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/calls-compulsory-holocaust-studies-video-5220385
- Teachersrock
  
  Barely out of nappies?? Clearly you are a tad out of touch with the irresponsibility many 16 year olds have. That and you have some rather strange potty training skills it would seem.
  - Honcho
    
    At age 16 New Zealand kids can not;
    
    -Run away to the Army, Navy, or Airforce
    -Drink or work at a bar or other licenced premises
    -Visit the strippers, strip or otherwise be employed as a sex worker
    -Get a credit card, or be extended a line of credit
    -Buy alcohol
    -Buy cigarettes or other tobacco products
    -Get married without parents permission
    -Hire a rental car
    -Have a full drivers licence
    
    …. this list goes on, but the question needs to be asked are 16 year olds up the responsibility of voting? I would answer most definitely not
    - Teachersrock
      
      Like I said, most 16 year olds would be better voters than adults. And I am happy to stand by that and take the abuse and bullshit that the out of touch morons on here will throw.
      - Pissedoffyouth
        
        When I was 16 I thought that communism was cool.
        
        Guess what, I got a job and the idea of having money taken from me to feed some useless bitches kids made me forget that idea pretty fast.
        
        But then again, teachers have never really left being 16 at school so nevermind.
        
        I think give 16 year olds the vote if they have left home and are working.
      - Teachersrock
        
        So speaks the mouth with the silver spoon in it.
      - Macca
        
        Atleast Pissedoffyouth makes some common sense Teachers Cock and is capable of following the thread of any discussion with sensible and thoughtful input!
        
        Sadly you typify the left with your pathetic little snide comments when you are caught short of intellect, which for a complete moron like you and your ilk, happens more often than not!!!!!
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Most 16 year olds would be better voters than adults. In which world teachersrock? Most 16 year olds are easily led and have no worldy experience to form a coherent view on anything, let alone be able to decide who should run a country.
        Just have a look at the whinging of early to mid 20′s who cannot knuckle down to buy a house to get a feel for their strategy. 16 year olds are almost exclusively living with their parents, don’tcan’t cook, can’t do their own washing and can’t even keep their room reasonably tidy.
        The Labour Party exists because of those on lower incomes. If incomes rise, they cease to have meaning, and almost certainly would cease to exist. I think that lays it out reasonably clearly.
    - RightOfGenghis
      
      The frontal cortex wherein is housed the ability to reason, is the last part of the brain to develop and is not fully developed until the early 20s. Enough said
  - http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious
    
    “Barely out of nappies?? Clearly you are a tad out of touch with the irresponsibility many 16 year olds have. That and you have some rather strange potty training skills it would seem.”
    
    You realise your comment makes no sense whatsoever. But then, you claim to be a teacher so no surprises there (right wing teachers being the exception of course).
    
    You attempted to offer a retort yet acknowledged that 16 year olds are irresponsible…own goal there teachersucks
    - Travis Poulson
      
      Not taking any prisoners tonight I see Unsol
      - Teachersrock
        
        Or using his/her brain either.
    - Teachersrock
      
      I suggest you visit a shop or a McDs and see how many 16 and 17 year olds are working, paying taxes, in some cases being shift managers.
      
      You are a simple minded fool who has swallowed the right wing bullshit and needs to wake up. But oh, no wait, it is better to live on Bullshit mountain (thank you John Stewart) than the real world.
      - Lion_ess
        
        Jon Stewart would be proud
      - Mediaan
        
        Glad to see your spelling is much better Kosh.
      - http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious
        
        Given your head filled to the brim with your own importance and that it is so far up your ass you can’t see straight, it is no surprise you have missed your own contradictory point.
        
        You said 16 year olds are irresponsible then in the next breath claim they are responsible because they work at McDonalds and the like.
        
        Further, where you work has no correlation with whether you are responsible enough to vote; most of us on here would probably prefer a new rule that also said becoming a teacher precludes your right to vote.
      - RightOfGenghis
        
        What time was happy hour TR
  - Lion_ess
    
    I agree 16 year olds are irresponsible too TeachersRock, along with people on benefits. Neither of these groups should be able to vote.
http://www.facebook.com/church.db.91 Daniel Church

I suspected long ago that this would happen. Now that it is both Labour and Green Party policy it is GOING to happen; therefore the smart thing for National to do would be to get in there and do it first, otherwise we will have a bunch of 16-17 year olds all voting for the left. National won’t though – strategic stupidity, just like the MMP referendum
- Mr_V4
  
  Huh? How does National “getting in there first”, mean the youth are going to vote National?
  
  We need a national education on a few main points when it comes to voting:
  
  1) The importance of measuring the actual policy outcome, rather that its stated goals. (Often the result of policy is 180deg different to the stated intent).
  2) Being able to analyse not only the seen benefits, but also the unseen.
  
  eg. Labours policy of giving an extra $80/wk to all bennies.
  
  -The seen is the $80/wk the bennie now has, the unseen of course is the loss of incentive to work for some bennies. Not only that but the wider impact on those working for low wages who now see the benny getting more money for doing nothing, and then think “why bother may as well go back on the dole”.
  
  You could also plausibly argue that as once upon atime there was a movement for no taxation without representation, today we should move to a model where there is no representation without (net) taxation. Hence yes we allow anyone paying net taxation, regardless of age too vote. Worth considering …
- Mediaan
  
  Votes for babies and all. Why do children get no say?
http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious

No surprises there – they are failing to get adults to see any validity in what they offer, who see through their feeble bribes, bluster & bullshit so now they are after our kids…no doubt because they hope that as teens changes their minds as often as they change their crush and hair colour, that on election day they might strike it lucky (especially if they throw in a few bribes).

But that said it is not likely to make one iota of a difference – teens and low income are just as likely to vote as they are to keep their cars registered & warranted. Anything that requires any effort tends to be too hard and I doubt that there are enough ‘geeky’ left wing 16 year olds to make their vote count.
cows4me

Please can someone send me an email when cows get the vote, it shouldn’t be to far down the road. More votes for the right, extra bale of silage for the right hoof mark.
- GregM
  
  I am offended, and you are discriminating against my gay goat. Does his feelings, or vote not count?
- Mediaan
  
  Good one. Could be it would reverse the slightly sagging dairy farm prices.
toby_toby

Jumping the shark is an idiom created by Jon Hein that is used to describe the moment in the evolution of a television show when it begins a decline in quality that is beyond recovery. The phrase is also used to refer to a particular scene, episode, or aspect of a show in which the writers use some type of “gimmick” in a desperate attempt to keep viewers’ interest.

In its initial usage, it referred to the point in a television program’s history when the program had outlived its freshness and viewers had begun to feel that the show’s writers were out of new ideas, often after great effort was made to revive interest in the show by the writers, producers, or network.[1][2][3]

The usage of “jump the shark” has subsequently broadened beyond television, indicating the moment in its evolution when a brand, design, or creative effort moves beyond the essential qualities that initially defined its success, beyond relevance or recovery.
davcav

What really scares me?

My wife went back to TeCol a few years ago to do more papers. She is a West Coast Labour supporter through and through, and reasonably PC (teaching for so long), but even she was sickened with how politically biased it had become. She could not believe some of the crap she and the younger students were being fed.

Now, those teachers are the ones that will be teaching our children…
Grizz30

What disgusts me is they are actually trying to change the rules so that they can obtain and keep power. It is not some sanctamonious idealism, it is desperation politics.
Grizz30

How would pensioners respond to 16 and 17 year olds voting? They would have to be bribed too or else they will jump ship.
GregM

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t a change in voting age need to be done at constitutional level? I don’t think politicians can change this.
toby_toby

16 year olds don’t even have a fully developed brain.

Louis CK explains why young people are useless shits. This in turn explains why they’re not equipped to vote. Has some coarse language.
- Teachersrock
  
  The brain is not fully developed till about 21, Shall we raise the voting age then?
  - toby_toby
    
    Yes please.
    - Teachersrock
      
      We could also put in place a test, and those who fail to demonstrate basic human kindness can be excluded from voting. I know that would wipe out most of Nationals support, but at least we would get people voting based on caring as opposed to selfishness.
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        How do you make that out Teachersrock? Most charitable donations in NZ come from those who have a money.
        For the record, the reason schools make some money from fund raising activities they undertake is because people like those who post on this site are (a) kind enough to donate or buy and (b) the people who you say have no basic human kindness band together to make sure these fund raisers actually work.
        Oh, and given that over 40% of households in NZ are net beneficaries (ie recieve more in government handouts than they pay in tax), who do you think is paying for them to be those net beneficiaries? The Unkind?
      - GregM
        
        Yep,my last donation of $100 was to a well respected woman, whose family set up a memorial education trust fund.
        Money well spent, and I look forward to supporting this much needed initiative for the kids of the CBD in the future.
      - Mediaan
        
        Only a matter of time before a Labour remit comes up on this. With lefty examiners.
        
        Kindness Exam.
        Question 1, should there be equal marriage rights as defined by us?
        Question 2, should all children be allowed to go to a non-sheep school as defined by us?
        Question 3, should everyone have as much money as they need paid for by taxes on others?
        Question 4, should all first home buyers be helped into a cheap house paid for by tens of billions of Wussel Wealth?
      - toby_toby
        
        You would have failed that test given the nastiness you’ve exhibited in posting here. But perhaps you think your ideology exempts you from being kind?
      - http://unsolicitedious.wordpress.com/ Unsolicitedious
        
        Idiotic comment. 13% of taxpayers fund over 70% of all taxes collected and benefits paid out. At a guess, 90% of these people would be right wing. Right wingers who also prop up the charities. It is not poor people who fund Kidscan, Jigsaw, the Salvation Army, Red Cross, Rape Crisis STOP or the CIty Missions. It is the rich people. Rich people who are constantly paying for other people’s traumatic misfortunes and when it comes to low income/struggling to make ends meet, often very poor choices.
        
        Further, like I have said before, left wing politics and compassion are actually mutually exclusive and just like bad parents, they fail to set boundaries, ensure accountability and try to give into a the masses every whim. This is abuse.
        
        Self worth comes from achievement, from working to get what you life rather than feeding off the seemingly infinite welfare tap. Right wing policies promote user pays – giving people an option other than being hand fed their needs from the cradle to the grave.
        
        So I would say that if we were to put your scenario to the test we would find that it would be right wingers doing the voting not the greedy self absorbed whining & whinging ‘give me more money you hard working rich people’ type left wingers
      - Agent BallSack
        
        Marry Me!
    - Steve
      
      Actually, the pre-frontal cortex isn’t fully developed for certain until the mid-20s. So the voting age would probably have to be something like 28 to be sure we weren’t letting those without fully developed brains vote.
  - Mediaan
    
    Yes.
Steve

I’m pretty sure most people make their mind up on this issue based on their view of who the lower age group will generally vote for. Most of you would be in favour of lowering the age to 16 if you actually thought 16 and 17 year olds would be more likely to vote centre-right.

I wrote about an argument with a lefty who was against lowering the voting age at least in part because at 16 she had simplistic libertarian views – the young are attracted to simple answers, so the theory goes. I pointed out that I went through my naive libertarian phase at 18 or 19. http://www.parkesweb.com/2012/10/recently-philip-greatrex-has-written.html

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