Are there actually some good socialists out there?

It is possible, but there might just actually be some good socialists out there:

Take Estonia, a tiny country at the mercy of its much larger neighbours, which has ample reason to blame “global forces”. But throughout the crash, it defiantly kept its taxes low (at a 21 per cent flat rate) and took the tough decision to cut state spending by a tenth. It is now celebrating the fastest growth in Europe. The much-larger Sweden responded to the crash with a permanent tax cut for the low-paid. This encouraged so many people back to work that the extra revenue covered the cost of the policy. Socialist Sweden has proven the existence of a phenomenon that the Tories had been taught no longer exists: a self-financing tax cut.

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  • ConwayCaptain

    Allpersonal income up to 40k tax free and GST at 20%. Get rid of WFF and child benefits etc. for more than 2 children. If you cant feed ‘em dont breed ‘em.
    Make the DPB etc a finite time ie 5 years and same with the dole for people who have never worked.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Greg-Davis/624235869 Greg Davis

    Some of us will continue to repeat this message for decades and Team Blue and Team Red and Team Green will do nothing – because the public has been infantilised. We’re talking PROSPERITY here, while the public wants its egalitarian race to the bottom.

    • blazer

      is that bastion of capitalism the U.S.A prosperous?just wondering.

      • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

        By and large yes it is, except when politicians meddle

        • blazer

          impossible for politicians not to meddle…and looking at the U.S debt burden it would suggest the U.S is not prosperous.

  • Beejills

    Wow! The thing I like about your comment, Cameron, is that you are
    slowly beginning to recognize your own deep-seated Socialism. You were
    born instinctively with it, and despite your protestations to the
    contrary, eventually you will mold yourself back into that simple form
    of reality.

    • Honcho

      There is a striking difference between the christian (and almost every other major religions) values of social justice, and that which we know as communism.

      • Beejills

        Honcho … I detect, just a little, that you have never been to Russia. I detect, just a little, that you were never in Russia during the Soviet era – the Communist era – well … if you had you would have noticed startling examples of social justice in health, education, culture. Your comparison of ‘religious’ social justice and atheistic social justice is like comparing apples with bananas! The problem with Communism (and I am no Communist) is that just like religion (particularly Christianity) the basic ideal of each according to his/her needs was perverted by the concept of Leninism – ‘the Vanguard of the proletariat.’ To really understand the essence of Communism not only do you have to study that political theory but you need to have lived with someone – a real Russian – who actually lived in the Soviet Union – who can tell you exactly what social justice under Communism meant … and surprisingly – most of it from the Russian I know so well was good. And that Russian, and others I know, do not deny that the perversion of Communism meant political catastrophe – murder, repression,torture,corruption,totalitarianism – and all the other negative ‘isms’ you can think of. But those horrors do not detract from the simple fact that Communism as a concept can work if the fact of human greed and selfishness can be stripped away.

        • Alsh

          Sorry, can you tell me one single place communism has been tried and worked?

          • blazer

            Cuba.

          • Alsh

            Seriously, you would go and live in that poverty stricken hell hole? I know the Yank embargo is a big contributor to their poverty, but it is still the proverbial South American banana republic.

          • blazer

            everythings relative…believe it or not there is far worse poverty in the U.S not to mention countries like S.A and Brazil which are not communist.

          • Alsh

            I agree there is poverty in those countries, but if I had to chose between being poor in US, SA or Brasil I know which one I would choose to be poor in and if you are honest with yourself you know too.

          • blazer

            I would choose Cuba.

          • Alsh

            Why? Have you ever lived under communist regime? I just do not see the attraction.

          • In Vino Veritas

            If you consider living in a time warp a success blazer.

          • blazer

            whats your definition of ‘success’ IVV?

          • Beejills

            Aish, yes I can … in Russia. Do not confuse Communism with Leninism or Stalinism or Marxism. True Communism worked in many places in Russia until the Party intervened to ‘correct’ the incorrigibles back to the true way: Marxist/Leninism.

          • Alsh

            Respectfully I cannot agree with you. At no time has communism has worked in USSR. How do I know, well I was born there. I do not know where you get your information from, but you are wrong you cannot distinguish between communism and its avatars Marx, Lenin and Stalin.

          • Beejills

            Avatar: ‘ The incarnation of a Hindu deity, especially Vishnu, in human or animal form’. I do not think Marx, Lenin or Stalin were descended from a deity. But, respectfully, Aish, I agree with your right to disagree. May I refer you to the following works:

            Bukharin and the Socialist Revolution -Stephen F.Cohen.

            The Marxist Concept of Ideology – Martin Seliger

            Democratic Socialism – Giles Radice

            The Dynamics of Soviet Society – W.W.Rostow

            A Short History of Socialism – George Lichtheim

            Marx and Engels on Malthus – Ronald Meek

            Just to get the ideological concepts back into refreshment.

          • Alsh

            Thank you for the list of books to read, but you made a claim that communism worked in Russia or to be more correct in USSR. As a person who was born and lived there part of my life under the regime I just wonder on what facts do you base your claim on?

        • blazer

          your last line indicates it can never ‘work’.

          • Beejills

            That’s right, blazer; I agree with you… the essence of innate human greed will never be removed from the human condition. I know of bleeding heart liberals who want environmentally friendly everything but in reality they want their own selfish agenda… so there’s the rub.

        • In Vino Veritas

          Beejiils, I did go to Russia during the communist era. The atmosphere of misery and fear was everywhere. There was an underlying bitterness that the apparatchiks and above were treated favourably.

          Living conditions for many were not that flash, worse than state housing here in NZ, thats for sure. And I personally witnessed some of those conditions.

          • Beejills

            In Vino Veritas ….your title gives you away! You must have been drinking too much vodka when you were there! Did you go to Sverdlosk? People were very happy there … excellent pre-school education, terrific gymnasiums, superb,healthy, food, friendly (and smiling) people, excellent health care schemes for workers … I was fortunate enough to go to one of the holiday camps for workers from one of the large pipe factories and the facilities were magnificent … all of this in 1981 ! when the world press was castigating living conditions there. No, what happened was, as I indicated earlier, the Kremlin bosses simply took the money from the party cards (small books recording your weekly donations to the party … I have a real one in my possession, given to me as a memento by some one who defected) and placed the proceeds in their Swiss bank accounts ready for a rainy day …which eventually arrived. The point is none of the corruption had anything to do with Communism but everything to do with … dare I say it again … the greed and selfishness of the human condition. However, having said all that, I recognize that you did indeed experience and observed hardships … of course you did; but, what you saw was misery,deprivation caused by the elites as you so correctly point out.

  • Mostly_Harmless

    Sweden is left-wing, but far from socialist.

    • JimboBug

      Sweden is pretty interesting economically in that it mixes socialism with laissez-faire capitalism. Swedish employment law makes it relatively easy to hire and fire people and there aren’t the same number of regulations as the rest of Europe.

      If you are going to down the socialism route it is probably the best way of doing it … support people when they are out of a job but make it easy for them to get one too. Unlike New Zealand where we make it hard to hire and fire people and then make life rather too comfortable for the unemployed as well … which is the worst of both worlds.

  • Dave

    Maybe combining this and Sweden’s tax reductions. To all unemployment beneficiaries: Effective immediately, the Gummit has reduced taxes by 5% on all wages up to 40K per annum. Also, your benefit will drop by 10% in 3 months, and a further 10% every three month thereafter. You therefore need to get a JOB now.

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