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Gay Marriage will increase crime?

by Whaleoil on January 20, 2013

What on earth has marriage equality got to do with Sensible Sentencing? Quite a lot apparently. Garth McVicar thinks that marriage equality will lead to hordes of criminal beasts committing all sorts of crimes against humanity:

Crime will rise if gay couples are allowed to marry, says the head of the country’s victim lobby group.

Sensible Sentencing Trust leader Garth McVicar has submitted to Parliament that changing the law to allow same-sex marriage will be yet another erosion of basic morals and values in society which have led to an escalation of child abuse, domestic violence, and an ever-increasing prison population.

“The marriage amendment bill will not benefit society at all and will ultimately have detremetal (sic) effect on crime at all levels,” the submission read. 

Newsflash Garth…child abuse and domestic violence already exist, in large quantities, in heterosexual relationships…all the time…just ask Mr B.

Marriage equality will not cause what already exists, and this has nothing to do with sensible sentencing…stick to your knitting fella.

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  • Blair Mulholland

    It was a personal submission, not an SST submission. It was not a press release or official statement by the SST. And the article “embellishes” for want of a better word, what the submission actually says.

    I disagree with McVicar’s view on this issue – I don’t think the government redefining marriage will make it morally easier for married couples to split up, but he has a point regarding the value of marriage in society, and how when marriages break down crime increases. That’s all he was trying to say in the submission. He wasn’t saying gay marriage increases child abuse, as Farrar and others have tried to demagogue him.

    • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

      He is SST…his face appears anywhere he is the face of SST. It is bullshit it is a personal submission.

    • Mitch82

      Sounds like you’ve read the full submission first hand.. got a link?

    • http://www.facebook.com/rexwiderstrom Rex Widerstrom

      It’s hard “embellish” just 146 words of poorly structured misspelled ranting, unsupported by any reference to fact, research or the specific content of the Bill itself. It’s a diatribe that wouldn’t be out of place in the Herald’s comment section… no, scrub that, even their moderation would catch it… make that the Trade Me message board, along with all the other ill-educated choleric shut-ins.

      http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/C375983B-427D-4882-868B-850D3723472A/257535/50SCGA_EVI_00DBHOH_BILL11528_1_A305110_GarthMcVica.pdf

  • Gayguy

    Oh dear Bob. You have joined the ranks of the poorly educated and morally questionable with comments like that nonsense.

    • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz Whaleoil

      Who is Bob?

      • Gayguy

        Oops, my bad. Garth, I get the names of these idiots all mixed up at times.

        • dotcom

          Does every comment you gays make have to be laced with rancour? You erred. Admit you erred and move on. You were the idiot here, not the people whose names you mixed up.

          • Gayguy

            The only idiots in all of this is those making dumbarse statements like marriage equality increases crime. Or that marriage is some sort of institution that has never ever been changed, despite the overwhelming proof to the contrary.

          • spollyike

            Homosexualguy, if you believe in equality for all please answer in detail whether you therefore support polygamous marriage? After all at least polygamous marriage is heterosexual and already practiced in other countries of the world and therefore has precedent. In fact i would argue we as a country should be allowing polygamous marriage before we even consider the sordid path to homosexual marriage and all the unnatural activity that entails. If you do not support polygamous marriage i would be forced to conclude you are just as bigoted as the rest of us and your gay marriage agenda has been exposed for what it is: a shallow self serving, “feminist” style act of activism, serving no purpose but to continue the degradation of our ethics and morals that have made humankind what it is today.

          • dotcom

            Nope. Whale asked you “who’s Bob”, and you in having Whale try to assist you, still couldn’t resist, having a potshot. Now yesterday for example I made a post about Borat, and in doing so I mentioned Uzbekistan. Travis posted “Kazakstan”. I corrected my comment and to Travis I said “Thank you”. Which is how you should have responded to Whale above, and it is how a polite person would have answered. But you do not have a polite switch. In place of a polite switch, you have a gay switch. You and your gayness have killed your polite switch. You are a bad example to be displaying of gay men. I pity you. And I pity the example you are displaying for other gay men. Your EVERY post is laced with rancour. It is an overall bad look for your cause.

          • Gayguy

            You poor thing. People not obeying you must make your little brain hurt,

          • dotcom

            Keep proving to readers that in place of a polite bone, you have a gay bone. And as long as you keep proving it, I’ll continue to invite you to prove it. You seem to be losing this exchange. Thank you.

          • dotcom

            Have you noticed, that you have nearly 100 down-votes in this thread, which is typical of what you usually score. Do you not learn?

          • Gayguy

            You counted the number of down votes???

            Wow, that is kinds pathetic.

          • dotcom

            You didn’t count them? That’s pathetic.

  • Andrei

    What a surprise, Garth McVicars submission has been completely mischaracterised by the forces of darkness,

    Those of us who are not reef fish, blindly believing what we are told to believe but actually thinking for ourselves know that the reason why people like Garth McVicar get misrepresented and then scoffed at and scorned is because the arguments for “gay marriage” don’t stack up to any intelletual scrutiny, they are hollow, shallow and based upon distortion and silly word games.

    Nations have been led asray by evil people before, it is just a shame that we are watching this happen while our decadant, elites lead us all to perdition

    • Kimbo

      …and in the interests of openness and transparency, Andrei, why don’t you answer the question I’ve asked you on a number of occasions, but you’ve ignored thus far:

      When you say, “Nations have been led astray by evil people before, it is just a shame
      that we are watching this happen while our decadant, elites lead us all
      to perdition”, are you referring to your belief in an international Jewish conspiracy as supposedly outlined in the ‘Protocols of Zion’ to corrupt western ‘Christian’ values, to effect a world takeover?

      I always like to know the pedigree of the zealots who peddle plot theories in the public domain.

      • dotcom

        Off topic. Well off topic.

    • Gayguy

      In NZ we are lucky. The evil people, AKA people like you, do not get a chance to lead us astray.

      • Andrei

        I am not trying to lead anyone anywhere – in case you hadn’t noticed it is you that wants to change the meaning and purpose of something not me.

        You don’t have a case to make to do this so you resort to lies and spin.

        And the most grotesque thing about this is the fuck all gays will get “married” once its a possibility, it is just a game to make other people bend to your will

        • Kimbo

          And still no answer to my question, Andrei: Are you an anti-semite?

          They didn’t have the fifth amendment in Tsarist Russia, but they did have “traditional values” like pogroms.

          Put me, and the others out of our misery, Andrei: Are you the sort of person who thinks we should have pogroms to rid us of the decadent moral-corrupting fifth column that is destroying the fabric of our society?

          Seems to me if you are seeking to influence others in a public forum to adopt your values because they are supposedly necessary for the public, then the public deserves to know ALL of your values, Andrei.

          Just a simple, “yes”, or “no” will do…

          What’s the matter, Andrei? Not as loquacious, or in favour of exposing ‘hidden agendas’ like you usually are?

          • dotcom

            Off topic. Well off topic. If you have something going on with Andrei, I for one am not interested, thanks. Take it outside.

        • Gayguy

          Given marriage has been many things over the centuries your argument is pure garbage. This is one more alteration to something that has been changed many many many times before.

          The only people telling lies are people like you who deny this truth.

          And I also am extremely pleased at the distress this latest in a LONG line of changes will cause people like you.

          • dotcom

            What, Gayguy, and you think this perverse pleasure of yours isn’t going to come back and bite you, or something? You’re one of many fools if your plan is to meddle with society this way.

          • Gayguy

            I love how your kind view equality as a perversion.

          • dotcom

            No, not what I said, nor close. You said you are “extremely pleased at the distress” gay marriage is causing. I said that your extreme pleasure at the distress of others, is “perverse pleasure”, and it is. Pleasure at the distress of others, is perverse pleasure. This is not in any way my “viewing equality as a perversion”. But it is typical of gay misrepresentation, (linguistic) deviants that you are.
            Of course, it is for another debate from what it before us today, but you already have equality. You want to be “more equal”.if there can be any such thing.

          • Gayguy

            No we do not have equality, but odds are we will before the year is out. And you can crawl back under your rock muttering and cursing about something that will have zero impact on you.

            And yes, you do view equality as perversion.

          • dotcom

            Like I have said to you in the past, when the last gay man has his last bareback poo-push, that is when you will have come a little closer to your perversions having zero impact on me. According to you, you love bareback, and every time you bareback, you risk bringing the communicable diseases you risk for yourself, into the general community. Till then, you can mitigate the impact on me, by ringing a bell as you approach others please, saying out loud, “Unclean! Unclean!”

          • Gayguy

            Sigh, you are so filled with hate. I really do pity you.

          • dotcom

            Why do you presume I’m full of hate? You know nothing about me. I am full of loving concern for the long-term welfare of our species. Every time you push poo bareback, you show nothing but contempt for our species. I don’t see how hate comes into this common sense situation. I save lives. You do things that are a direct danger to mankind.

          • starboard

            You are extremely pleased at the distress these changes will cause people like you ? What a nasty little faggot you be. You poofs aint gona win so give up now..youre wasting your time.

          • Gayguy

            Yes I am very pleased that the thought of equality makes people like you froth at the mouth.

            Here’s hoping it angers you so much you will pack up and leave NZ. Move somewhere nice for you, like Iran.

  • BR

    The kiddy fiddlers will be watching the progress of the homo “marriage” bill with great enthusiasm. They will be supporting it 100 percent. Same goes for every other kind of pervert.

    Bill.

    • Gayguy

      What a moronic hate filled homophoic dick head you are.

      • BR

        And what a dummy spitting, toy throwing, cant-handle-the-truth, bitch-slapping grubby little mincing homosexual pervert you are.

        In spite of this, you are legally allowed to bugger your neighbour. Why can’t you and your sort be satisfied with that?

        Bill.

        • Gayguy

          Nasty little scumbag are’t you.

          Nothing you say has any basis in truth. It is just hate mongering on your part.

          When all the rights you have I have, then I will be satisfied.

          • BR

            Hey! It was you that started the personal attacks and name calling. Get over it.

            You already have the same rights as everyone else. What you want is for everyone else to be FORCED to recognize your sordid liaisons.

            Well not me. Not now. Not ever.

            Bill.

          • Gayguy

            No we do not have the same rights as everyone else.

            And if you do not like people being truthful and calling you what you are, then I suggest you keep your mouth closed.

          • BR

            i couldn’t care less what you and your ilk think of me.

            Contrary to what you might think, I do not hate homosexuals per se.
            However, I utterly despise the extreme left wing homosexual lobby who’s propaganda you persistently parrot.

            Bill.

          • starboard

            run along gay mincer and wallow in your boyfriends sewage. You perverted dirty filthy individual. You and your ilk make me want to vomit.

          • Gayguy

            Oh look Bill, another scumbag for you to play with.

      • dotcom

        Does every comment you gays make have to be laced with rancour?

      • stinkeye3

        As not being gay I couldn’t care less if you got married or not.

        However, can it not be forced in my face please?

        • Gayguy

          No one is forcing you to read about it, or take part in the fight for equality.

          • stinkeye3

            Well nobody here is forcing you to read the comments. So feel free to leave.

      • starboard

        Give it up chutney boy..you are clearly losing the argument

  • http://twitter.com/AkulaUH J.M

    I’m against gay marriage for a number of reasons, but a potential increase in crime is not one of them.

    • dotcom

      I’m against gay lib for a number of reasons, and the increase in crime that has already happened is one of them. But having lost the battle decades ago, I’m not sure how the marriage aspect per se, will have any direct effect on crime. The moral decline has already happened, and gayness is only one part of the decline.
      (Now here come the expletives to prove my point.)

  • Random66

    I have spoken to Garth on a number of occasions and agree with his sentiment that the erosion of basic morals and values in society have led to an escalation of crime and abuse. Only those who wish to continue this erosion would disagree.

    • Gayguy

      So please explain how marriage equality will cause crime to rise.

  • cows4me

    “He wasn’t saying gay marriage increases child abuse”, well then he should have. So loving a 8 year old boy sexually isn’t child abuse. I note those of the really sick deviant kind are praising gay marriage and lining up to push their fucked up agenda. But of course we live in an all inclusive society and anything goes. gay marriage, be fucked.

    • Gayguy

      Spreading lies and hate I see.

      • starboard

        pot meet kettle

        • Gayguy

          Are you another who views equality as a bad thing?

          Such a shame.

          • starboard

            Equal to what ? A mother who is female and a Father who is male?
            You aren’t equal Mary. Far, far from it. Stick to ya filthy bedroom antics behind closed curtains and keep it there.

          • Gayguy

            Poor scumbag. Move to Iran. Their values are more in line with your own than NZ’s are.

    • Patrick

      Was it not Phil Goff that wanted the age of consent lowered to 12 years old a few years back?

      • Gayguy

        Nope.

        • Patrick

          Oh really – better check the facts:

          Admittedly this has nothing to do with the Gay marriage debate, no idea whether you have children but I do & I can assure you there is no way that the average 12 year old should even be contemplating what Goff was advocating. This was probably the most disgraceful act in Goff’s entire political career.

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3568290

          The legislation proposes to introduce a new defence that would enable an accused teenager to escape prosecution if sex – with a person aged
          between 12 and 16 – was consensual and the age gap between the two
          parties was no more than two years. This, according to the Ministry of
          Justice, would provide the police with a guideline, so the law could be
          applied more consistently. No longer would a very few cases of under-age
          sex be prosecuted and the vast majority be disregarded. It is a line
          that Phil Goff chose to embrace fully, at least initially – even though
          the police’s use of their discretion means the problem is extremely
          minor.

          • Gayguy

            And? Totally different to lowering the age of consent.

            Not that I expect you to understand the difference, OR be above the scum who try to suggest otherwise.

          • Patrick

            Clearly you do not understand the consequences of what Goff was proposing. Cut the abusive replies & concentrate more on the detail.
            If Goff’s proposal became law then as far as the law is concerned it would become accepable for a 14 year old to hump 12 year old.

            That is the inescapeable reality of what was being proposed, it doesn’t matter which way you attempt to dice it.

          • Gayguy

            I have had this argument before when people have misrepresented what was being proposed. Only far right idiots go down the path you are.

            Even John Key never bothered with what you are trying, because he knew it was not true.

          • Patrick

            Once again stop the insults & be more constructive in your replies,
            this forum is supposed to enable debate not be a place for people with chips on their shoulders to vent.

            If you are going to argue at least make an attempt to be correct with the facts. Key never ever considered this because it was never on the table, Goff proposed this when he was Minister i.e. it was the Labour Party proposing this. Goff was the Minister of Justice, this was an amendment he proposed in 2004. Once he realised the furore that was being created he dropped the amendment like a hot potato. So obviously it wasn’t as important as he first portrayed it as.

            There is no misrepresentation, if the law was changed as Goff proposed then it would be legal for a 16 year old to have sex with a 14 year old & even a 14 year old to have sex with a 12 year old. That is an indistputable fact. The intent of the amendment may not have been to allow this (I assume only Goff can verify that) but the reality is if a 16 year old was up on charges then a half decent hack lawyer would get him/her off. Once that happens then it is a free for all as the precedent is set.

            You may get the occasional 14 year old (maybe even one or two 12 year olds) physically mature enough to have sex but I am damn sure none of them would be emotianally mature enough. That has nothing to do with the Left / Right crap you are trying to portray it as.

  • Peter Jenkins

    FYI

    “Media Statement re Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill

    (20th January 2013)

    The Sensible Sentencing Trust wishes to clarify that the recent submission regarding the Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill was made by Garth McVicar in a personal capacity and does not represent the view of the Sensible Sentencing Trust, or the wide range of views our members will no doubt have on the issue.

    Regards,
    Ruth Money
    Sensible Sentencing Trust. ”

    http://www.safenz.org.nz/Press/2013mediastatement.htm

    For what its worth, I strongly disagree with Garth on this particular issue.
    Believe it or not, dissension IS permitted within the Trust!!!

    Regards
    Peter Jenkins
    Webmaster for Sensible Sentencing Trust

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