Tough guys stand up for gay marriage

Tough guys can and do support gay marriage. Are you tough enough to support gay marriage?

Macho (mä´cho): a man who is aggressively proud of his masculinity (see also: football players, gunslingers, rappers).

Heard the latest among the straight, tough-guy set?

Two NFL players have filed a brief before the U.S. Supreme Court in support of gay marriage. Paul Wolfowitz, the neocon defense hawk from the George W. Bush administration, signed on to another. In the testosterone-roiled world of hip-hop, macho men from Jay-Z to 50 Cent had the back of crooner Frank Ocean after he posted an open letter about his sexuality. 

In the top sports leagues and conservative circles, the announcements of support for gay rights have been increasing — and increasingly bold. More are coming as the Supreme Court prepares next week to fully examine same-sex marriage for the first time. The two NFL players — Baltimore Raven Brendon Ayanbadejo and Minnesota Viking Chris Kluwe — have long been on the team of those supporting gay rights and filed a brief with the high court urging the justices to upend California’s 2008 voter-approved measure restricting marriage to one man and one woman. Locally, sports broadcaster Brett Haber this year joined with the group Athlete Ally, started two years ago by former University of Maryland wrestler Hudson Taylor, to take a stand against homophobia in sports.

The move among straight guys in athletics and other ultra-manly arenas is reflective of a national trend that shows the majority of Americans support marriage rights for same-sex couples. But it is also indicative of the place of the “tough guy” in society, said sociologist Michael Kimmel, who directs the Center for the Study of Men and Masculinities at the State University of New York at Stony Brook.

“They do the right thing even if nobody else supports them,” Kimmel said. “A tough guy also always stands up for the little guy. The tough guy isn’t a bully. The tough guy is righteous. Part of being a tough guy is standing up for the underdog — so I see it as perfectly consistent.”

Consistent, maybe. But rare, still.

  • spollyike

    Let’s get real. The word marriage means a certain thing. What homosexuals want to do is change what this thing means. Is that OK? Why can’t they just invent another word to describe the lifelong union that they want. I suggest the word HOMOUNION, is there anything wrong with that word, it clearly defines what they want and why would they not be proud of that, it has a nice ring to it doesn’t it? I think there is another darker reason they want to steal the word marriage, just as they stole the words gay and rainbow, are they so unimaginative that they can’t come up with their own word for wanting to anally ram another males arse and no others for the rest of their lives??

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Jenkins/593642943 James Jenkins

      What DOES the word Marriage mean…? When….? In what context?

      • BJ

        Getting a little tired of explaining…… Talking about marriage in NZ because thats what’s being debated that will affect me.
        The way I see it marriage’s strength is in the compliment of two different beasts (man and woman) acknowledging and embracing the contribution both make to their world (family unit) such that they can both look outward and ‘see’ the benefits of that in their life outside the marriage. Two people of the same gender do not have to deal with working on that crucial aspect of complimentary and different and embrace it because they are the same as each other – there is no ‘work’ to be done on themselves – it’s easy. So they don’t have look outwards at the bigger picture – they are self-contained – and that I believe will not be good for society and it devalues the ‘work’ that goes into a marriage (man and woman). And, this ‘work’ is not about just two people with different personalities -it’s about the two parts that make up humanity (Man and Woman) and the contribution their constant working on that relationship makes – anything less cannot constitute a marriage in the eyes of anyone with a conscience.

      • spollyike

        It’s not up to those that are married to explain what marriage means dude. If you don’t know you shouldn’t be contemplating it.

        • Gayguy

          In other words you can’t.

    • unsol

      You’re so angry dolly. Why does this bother you so much? How does it impact your marriage to mrs dolly? Why is it you think marriage is defined by the gender of the person one marries? What is more important – your spouse’s gender or the love, companionship, fidelity, loyal, trust & friendship they give you & that they have promised to continue giving you until you die?

      • spollyike

        Marriage means one thing and one thing only, anything else is not a marriage. I am not against equality but for the sake of definitions why can they not use a different word, why must they always steal the meaning of pre=existing words that have existed for centuries if not longer, why can they not just for once come up with their own word for what the want to define? After all it is different is it not? Therefore a different definition is warranted is it not? You seem logical unsol, surely you see the logic of my argument don’t you?

      • spollyike

        HOMOUNION = Homosexual marriage. End of story.

        • Gayguy

          sopllyike= ignorant fool. End of story.

      • spollyike

        Are you certified? The unnecessary stealing of the word marriage by the homosexuals that want to make a lifelong commitment to each other impacts my marriage by changing it’s definition. Surely you realise this. Do you reaaly want the definition of marriage weakened like that, are you not married yourself? Don’t you think they could at least choose or create another word, after all words have been created by societies for centuries when the need for a new definition of something arises. Is that now how new words come about Unsol????

        • unsol

          Oh for fucks sake, you really are part of the loony bunch if you think that 2 guys or 2 girls down the road choosing to get married, people who you are unlikely to ever meet & whom would never want to know someone like you, will have a direct impact on your marriage.

          If you think like that then your marriage is doomed and I suggest you start making plans – check out divorceme.co.nz

          Honestly, what a moronic nonsensical piece of crap.

          You & your teeny tiny little brain that just writes something off because of some bullshit you have swallowed that has no logic or rational may feel popular on here amongst the handful of Cameron’s readers that bother to comment, but in the real world – you’re a minority.

          Your comments are pathetic, bigoted, & completely without rational, good research or substance.

          Making wild claims as a wannabe mathematician?? Now there’s a juxtaposition!

          Grow the fuck up dolly & use your damn brain – you never know, common sense & good rational thought processes might very well be tucked away somewhere in there.

          I just hope for your child’s sake they are not gay as God forbid having a parent like you. Yep, I played the parent card. But after this comment & your dickhead ones on the other post, well, looks like this kind of language is the only thing you are capable of comprehending.

          Now fuck off & stop commenting on all my comments.

    • Gayguy

      Marriage means what ever the state says it means.

  • http://truebluenz.com/ Redbaiter

    Oh yeah you’re a big tough guy alright Whale, backing big powerful over-reaching government and two queers on the far left of the political spectrum wanting to mock and make meaningless something Christians and so many other NZers hold dear.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Jenkins/593642943 James Jenkins

      ^ Hark at the keyboard warrior from Tauranga…twat

    • http://www.cadlow.co.nz spanishbride

      And you are a real tough guy who doesn’t comment using his own name ;O)

    • Gayguy

      But what people like you fail to grasp is you do not own marriage and you do not get to say who can have one. Nor is marriage by any streach of the imagination a christian creation.

    • http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/ Petal

      How many marriages have you been in before the current one Red?

  • PlanetOrphan

    Harden Up Children, your life definitions will live on in your heads, trust me M8!

  • spollyike

    Cameron why do you never use the word Homosexual? Gay is a STOLEN word and never meant what you are using it for.

    • RightOfGenghis

      Damn right it’s stolen!

  • BJ

    A few days ago a commenter on here was very honest about why they wanted to be able to get married as a gay man – it really got to me – sincerely. BUT if the truth be known we all do ourselves out of the life we want to lead to some extent by the perception of that life clouding the reality.

    He wanted to be just like his father who had worked hard to financially support and spend time with his 8 children – what the person did not acknowledge was his mother – the female that was there most in his life while his hero (Dad) was doing what he needed to contribute to the success of this family unit. His mother provided aspects to his emotional and physical maturation that his father would never do.

    Whether the decision (perhaps at a sub-concious level), to fear ones opposite gender OR ones own sexuality (full expression of ones being) – whichever it is – comes before or at the time of birth – it is a decision that has been made by a concious being AND we all make life choices that cancels out other possibilities.

    Any argument suggesting that persons that have ‘decided’ not to be mainstream should still be able to access something that is at the very centre of the striving for peace and understanding between man and woman, is most eloquently dissolved by Michael Laws article 5 days ago. He rightly points out that pushing this for a minority only creates a much worse inequity and the price is – a minority winner and a majority loser. If you are always seeking wisdom then please go to.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/8429474/Laws-Gay-marriage-law-creates-new-inequity

    • spollyike

      great great post BJ! So true.

    • unsol

      Wow BJ, that comment blew me away.

      I assume you are being sincere. Irrespective of whether you believe that marriage should be extended, it is great that you are able to see gay men & women as fellow human beings who want to have the same things we all do – find someone to love, personify the good things that a role model demonstrated in our lives, potentially have children & grow old together. Even if you don’t think that they should get married or have children due to different beliefs or whatever, if you see them as people with feelings & aspirations like the rest of us then is good enough as the problem with this debate as many dehumanise & demonise this group with nothing by fear & myths to substantiate their views.

      Your comment shows that blogs may not change peoples views per se, but they can have a positive influence.

      I hope Tom sees your comment as his story was quite powerful.

    • TomTom

      I’m annoyed that I didn’t check WhaleOil earlier today, but I’m fucking pissed off to find this post.

      You somehow extrapolate things about my life and my relationship to my mother from a couple lines of what I said that really only talked about my father and my ambitions ten years down the road. Let me put it shortly and sharply, you are a fuckwit piece of cunt, who wrote a shit paragraph to justify further shit paragraphs. You will fucking edit your post to remove that paragraph and you will fucking never do it again.

      You should also get your head out of the fucking sand and look at the many hundreds of thousands of single mothers and fathers managing to rather perfectly fine children. JK is one excellent example. Are you trying to say that single fathers are basically worthless, eh? That the justice system should just always grant mothers sole custody right off, even if the mother is shite? You should also use your fucking google to very easily find the many studies demonstrating that children of lesbian and gay couples do just as well as children of heterosexual couples at everything.

      You also speak psedo-pyschological rubbish with that fearing the opposite gender or whatever shit. I have five fucking sisters. Jesus christ. How the fuck can I decide not to be ‘mainstream’ about sexuality? What is ‘mainstream’ sexuality? Do you think I actually decided to be gay and just totally ask for all the shit that could or have come my way because of it? Do you think all those gay kids who eventually took their lives decided that they were gay?

      TL;DR, you’re a fuckwit cunt, edit your post, and fuck off.

  • cows4me

    So are you equating our stand against gay marriage as bulling? Man you’re losing the plot if you are. Your beloved gays are doing the bulling, since when has saying “no” becoming bulling?

    • spollyike

      You are dead right cows, it has always been the extreme left, PC, marxist advocates that have pushed and pushed and when confronted with a logical argument responded with personal attacks. Yet as expected they would claim it was us. The question is what is whales secret agenda, what is he hiding, he keeps pushing and pushing and pushing this homosexual agenda as if his own life depended on it doesn’t he. He has CHOSEN to be blind to this issue despite being open to meany others. I detect a personal agenda here, no more, no less. But what is it??? We know the core of Nationals constituency are oposed to Homosexual marriage but for some reason Cameron keeps on pushing…WHY? Can anyone enlighten us???

      • Gayguy

        Because unlike you he believes in equal rights for all. Something conservatives are meant to believe.

        • CoNZervative

          What about threesomes and bigamists then Gayguy, why are their “rights” denied in marriage? They are consenting adults and “discriminated” against!!

          • Gayguy

            Well a 3some is not a relation, it’s a sexual activity, and a fun one I might add.

            And as for bigamy, as I understand it that is illegal to prevent abuse.

          • unsol

            Yes they are.

            But such a statement indicates the big elephant in the room – male fidelity.

            Many marriages already have a 3rd person – it’s called cheating.

            Wouldn’t it be better for men who like more than one long term commitment at any one time – whether would-be polymoralists (?) or polygamists to be able to have these relationships open & honestly….assuming of course there would be women who were up for it (can’t say I know any woman who would be willing to share).

            Assuming of course that these types of men could remain faithful to 3 wives or whatever.

            In reality – cheaters love to pretend they are monogamist so unless the majority men are keen to go down this route & they have women lined up to do it with, I really cant see the validity in this kind of argument at all.

            The 1/3 of cheating men would probably prefer to keep their other women separate.

          • Hazards001

            More women cheat in marriage than men..a lot more!

          • unsol

            No they don’t. At best it is even. Assuming of course all cheaters admit to it.

            In NZ, one survey last year put cheating at 1/3 of all marriages – 35.1 % of women cheated & 35.7% of men cheated.

            Others I have read have been as high as 70% of men have cheated vs 40% of women while others again state 22% men vs. 14% of women

            Big issue of contention is whether all cheaters admit it.

          • Hazards001

            YES THEY DO! So f OFF on this one. I’m not going trawling through the net foe statistics. It’s well know that more women cheat on their husbands than vice versa.

        • BJ

          The following is an exert from what I found on a blog site of another blogger on here that supports gay Mar…ge but despite that they make it clear that this IS NOT ABOUT EQUAL RIGHTS at all. That is an absolute lie. And that lie is what has compelled may politicians to make a conscience vote in favour and has much of the ignorant public not thinking much about this at all.

          Marriage is not a “human right” it is a human want. There are millions of heterosexual people who will never get married because they cannot find someone to marry them. A “right” is universal, everyone can (and in many cases must) have it. Rights derive from reason and the only true “rights” are those you don’t have to use force on others to have. For example freedom of religion is a reason based right becuase everyone must have a worldview and it cannot be force on you and having a relgious view is not something you have to use force on someone else to acquire. Meanwhile there is no “right to healthcare” as to have a right to healthcare you have to force someone to provide it.

          The only rights being eroded here are those belonging to the Heterosexual Institute of Marriage

          • Gayguy

            Marriage is not a heterosexual institute and by the end of April our laws will reflect that truth.

          • unsol

            Yes, you are correct in that marriage may not be a human right & is merely a human want, but the LGBT should have every right to at least have the chance to express & make good of that human want as much as a heterosexual person. The fact that they can’t makes it discrimination.

            This stuff was all covered by the HRC…by the lawyers, not a sports star.

          • Hazards001

            LGBT…lesbian gay bi sexual transgender?
            How about YOU start changing a few things you can change…WE the straight people have decided we want out word back so take the Gee out and replace it with…hmmm….what? Can’t be a aitch as H is for Homo the Latin word for man and as a man I’m not asking for change so that’s out. Hmmm maybe an A? Arse bandit..yeah…that works..soooo why don’t you change your post to the LABT want to change…no…hang on wait..why should the B’s want to change anything…most of them are married anyway right?

            So let’s change it too the LAT want to…errrrr..no…that’s wrong too isn’t it? I would have thought a transgender person would have wanted the right to be legally acknowledged as the opposite sex to the one on their birth certificate. Therefore if that happens no marriage issue for them..umm unless they change their mind again I suppose.

            So that leaves us with the LA’s…and surprise surprise LA LA land is where we are at with this whole crock of shit.

          • unsol

            Eh? You lost me after ” we the straight people”.

            Given it is mostly men who comment on here you most certainly do not speak for the majority – mostly women – of the population.

            Question is though,,,,you the big tough straight guy you..does your definition of marriage include fidelity?

            If so, then why? Cheating used to be accepted practice, but marriage has since changed & while it continues to happen, it is now done more in secret.

            So should marriage go back to women being stoned to death if they cheat & men being lorded as something great & manly if they have a few girls on the side?

          • Hazards001

            read my next comment..it’s to you as well

          • unsol

            Which one – this format means some just almost disappear!

            And yes I suspected as much – that really sucks.

            I dont understand what it is like, but I can empathise – someone in our close circle found out their spouse of 10 years had had multiple long term affairs…affairs where the mistress had no idea he was in a relationship & never met his family or close friends. He totally lived a double life – a complete psycho. Thankfully they hadn’t had kids so that was at least some saving grace. We knew he had cheated, but finding this out seemed worse somehow.

          • Hazards001

            Over this. Don’t even know why I post on this subject. Not like I really care. I just get fed up with change for the sake of change!…and i do truly believe that the feminizing of men is part of the world s biggest issues right now. But as I have daughters it’s not keeping me awake at night.

        • Dumrse

          Fuck off and stop pissing in his pocket. It’s a numbers game about hits.

          • Gayguy

            If you think I am attempting to flatter the Whale then you do not know me at all. Most of what he says is rubbish. But on this, he happens to be on the side of good.

          • RightOfGenghis

            You missed the Dumbsters point. WO doesn’t give a shit about you or your cause. He is milking this for page views

          • Gayguy

            Any proof that old Whale is not genuine in his desire for equality? Or are you lot getting desperate now as April approaches.

          • unsol

            If that’s the case then do you think he is a Christian? Someone with values, integrity, a moral compass? If not & you feel that strongly then why come on here & contribute to his so-called numbers game? Isn’t that being counter-productive?

          • RightOfGenghis

            Since you asked I think like we all, he has his own value system however I don’t think he’s a ‘Christian’ in the sense I understand the term. Don’t ‘feel strongly’ about it though, just filling in time while the steak thaws

          • Gayguy

            Don’t think he is a christian… oh please do explain that one.

          • Hazards001

            you little piss weasel. Typical of the lefty queers. You’re so flip flop on who your buddies are aren’t you you one issue gimp!

          • Gayguy

            I would have to say I do not consider anyone on this site a “buddy”.

            There are people who I share views with, there are people who I share one or two views with, and there are people that have nothing coming close to what I would consider basic human kindness and decency. I had no idea that the rule according to Hazard was anyone you agree with is your buddy.

            Grow up you fool.

          • Hazards001

            The “rule” according to hazard is “To thine own self be true”…what’s the rule according to you flip flop?
            Is it..”When it suits me I’ll be into it”?

          • Gayguy

            Bitter little thing aren’t you, then after your comment above I understand why. And I do not flip flop on my views.

          • Hazards001

            I’m a lot of things petal…but a little thing to a ponce I am not!

          • Gayguy

            Oh really. So I take it you have had a lot of gay guys tell you that your thing ain’t little.

            So your anger comes not from your wife cheating on you, but your repressed homosexuality. Gotcha.

          • Hazards001

            Twat..fuck off you one trick pony

          • Gayguy

            Oh my, touched a nerve there.

            Still at least we all now know.

          • Hazards001

            No you don’t fuckwit, that’s just the refuge of fags. Trying to put people who disagree with you in your pathetic lost and lonely little box. Calling me a repressed queer is like calling yourself a mans man you fucked up little bitch! Cunts like you give the shits ya poxy fucking left wing special person. Remember..it’s not cos ya gay I don’t like you. It’s because you think that makes you special. Go shove that up your ass ya wanker!

          • Gayguy

            Goodness such rage. I suggest you get some professional help. You do not seem stable.

            Oh and for the record dipshit. men in general would go the dirty path to take the piss almost every time And if you deny that you have ever taken the piss because of someones choice of words I call you a liar.

            Harden up wuss.

          • BJ

            Hah So thats what homosexuality is all about – ‘expressed’ anger. There’s lots of healthier ways of expressing anger

    • Lion_ess

      Again, I agree with your view (that being against is not bullying), even though I don’t care (I would vote in favour) about whether or not same sex couples can marry. The rest of the debate is bullshit.

  • Blair Mulholland

    Supporting the redefinition of marriage is about the least “tough” thing one can do in 2013. You want to see tough, try standing up to teh gays and watch the bullshit fly.

    • Gayguy

      Bullshit? Given that every thing the anti marriage equality side has put up as an argument against equality has been pure bullshit, that is a tad misleading on your part.

      • Blair Mulholland

        The fact that you think (or pretend) the argument is about equality is about as bullshit as it gets. A marriage certificate is not a human right. unless you also think there should be Zoroastrian public holidays and free mammograms for men.

        • Gayguy

          Then lets take marriage away from everyone. No marriage at all.

          How about that. You ok with that?

          • http://nzconservative.blogspot.com Lucia Maria

            That is the end game.

          • Gayguy

            Only in the minds of the tinfoil hat nutjobs.

          • BJ

            That is going be the outcome

          • Gayguy

            As I just said to LM, only in the minds of the tinfoil hat nutjobs.

          • Blair Mulholland

            More bullshit. Where did I ever say that gays couldn’t marry?

          • Gayguy

            Then I guess you are pro marriage reform.

            Good to have you on board.

          • Blair Mulholland

            You can do whatever you want in whatever church will have you and call it whatever you like. It’s never been illegal to do that (although if you did it before 1986 it might have been used against you as evidence of buggery).

            This is not a debate about what gay couples can or can’t do. This is about what the government can call a marriage and what sort of couples it can issue a marriage certificate to. Always has been. Unfortunately, one side of the debate wants to pretend it is about something else.

          • Gayguy

            Yes the anti marriage equality people are pretending that this is about something else. However people are not buying their lies.

          • Blair Mulholland

            I’m amused that it constantly gets called “marriage equality”. My view on it is that if you’ve found someone you think is special and you want to exchange vows with them, then what anybody else thinks, including the government, is of no consequence at all. It seems that there are a lot of gay couples who think that their relationships are “not equal”, and therefore the government is the only entity which can make them equal. I find the whole idea bizarre. If gay couples really thought their relationships were equal, what the government thought about them would be of zero consequence.

          • Gayguy

            This is not a dig, but I do understand that you do not get it. That you, a person who has never had their sexuality be illegal, never faced discrimination because of love, never had separate laws for you, I get that you do not get why this is actually of major consequence.

          • Blair Mulholland

            Past discrimination of someone’s lifestyle does not entitle anyone to official sanction of it. Just because the Jews went through the holocaust doesn’t mean the government should make Hannukkah a public holiday. I get that you want to hold a pity party for what happened, but marriage certificates are not a form of absolution.

          • Gayguy

            The Jews got a country and many many many countries have laws that punish anti Semitic comments/acts/attitudes. I suggest you school up on things before using them as an anti marriage equality argument. It will stop you from looking foolish.

            And past discrimination DOES entitle official sanction and protection by the sate of those people that have been discriminated against. It is because of that discrimination it is needed.

            But as I said, I do not expect someone like you to understand.Just do not prevent others having the same rights you have ALWAYS had.

      • BJ

        This is not an equality issue. You’ve got to have ALL equivalent conditions met for there to be an equality arguement

        • Gayguy

          I cannot marry the person I love. You can. In NZ, where we are all equal under the law, that is unacceptable and makes this an equality issue.

  • CoNZervative

    O-M-Gosh, some basket-ballers did something fashionable. Hold the front page. I’m totally changing my mind after this.

    • Gayguy

      You wouldn’t change your mind if God himself told you to.

      • RightOfGenghis

        I’m not sure God made man in order for him to start buggering other men. Am pretty sure he decided he needed a woman in there to kick things off

        • Gayguy

          Given that sexuality is not a choice, and if you accept God makes no mistakes, homosexuality was intended on his part.

          • Lion_ess

            Idiot!

          • Hazards001

            73 posts…best retort!

          • Gayguy

            If that is the best you have I suggest you give up now.

        • Hazards001

          Yeah…but God was obviously a medical insurance broker ‘cos he said all it would cost is a rib but they actually cost an arm and a leg!

        • unsol

          No he just need man – whom he created out of dirt.

  • Kacanga

    Gay Marriage is a bit like Marmite – not to my taste and while I don’t care if anyone else partakes it’s a fait accompli and I’m tired of hearing about it.
    I think I’qll skip the posts on either subjects from now on

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