Anti-fluoride looneys put kids through misery

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People in hamilton should be made aware of these details that have emerged from Australia about the perils of removing fluoride from drinking water.

The loons that propose this are akin to the same fools who promote homeopathy, they are quacks and should almost be prosecuted.

Young children from parts of northern NSW without fluoridated water are being hospitalised for mass extractions of rotten teeth at nearly twice the rate of other children.

Dentists and paediatricians in Lismore and Ballina say tooth decay among young children is at Third-World levels.

The situation has prompted the Australian Dental Association to urge the federal government to use its influence to force councils swayed by ”fringe groups who peddle fear … and conspiracy theories” to embrace water fluoridation.

In a statement intended to make water fluoridation an election issue, the association’s federal president, Karin Alexander, said the government needed to make fluoridation of drinking water a condition of funding for all states and territories, particularly NSW and Queensland, or face a rising tide of child dental emergencies.

”Political parties [need] to have the guts to get into the debate, show some leadership and back the science and the experts to improve the dental health of all Australians.”

Ballina dentist Stephen Enright said he knew of many children as young as three who had had all or half their rotten teeth removed under general anaesthetic in local hospitals.

”You don’t have to go to Nepal to work in a Third-World environment; you just come to Ballina or Lismore or one of the northern rivers public dental clinics,” Dr Enright said.

Figures provided exclusively to Fairfax Media by NSW Health on Friday confirmed the rate of hospital admissions for the removal or restoration of teeth among children aged up to four in the Northern NSW Local Health District was 563.5 per 100,000 children a year – about 93 children. In contrast, the average across NSW is 331.1 per 100,000.

This district includes some towns with fluoride but most of the population resides in towns with no fluoridated water, including Lismore, Byron Bay and Ballina. A fortnight ago, Lismore voted against adding fluoride to the water, though a motion to reverse that will be debated this month. Ballina Shire Council voted to proceed, defeating anti-fluoride activists.

Byron remains opposed to the addition of fluoride. The issue is expected to be debated at the Local Government Association annual meeting next month.

  • kevin

    One could use flouridated toothpaste or even buy the little flouride pills, they are cheap as.

    • Orange

      Well I guess all those kids being damaged by their councils aren’t AS SMART AS YOU.

      • kevin

        relax orange… I’m not ‘the kid damaging council’ and we have lived in non flouridated areas. Parents have choices.

      • Polish Pride

        oh yes of course blame the councils. After all the lack of fluoride in the water MUST be the reason for all that tooth decay. Of course it will have nothing to do with the copious amounts of sugary drinks that kids consume every day..

        • LesleyNZ

          You must be young. My generation had mouths full of amalgam. We didn’t have the sugary drinks etc like today (mostly home made baking and puddings) and we didn’t have fluoride. Wished we had of. My kids had and still have beautiful teeth – because of fluoride.

        • Orange

          Because all the kids without teeth problems in the fluoride areas don’t drink any sugar drinks? You’re not making any sense.

    • LesleyNZ

      Why would you do that? You are still putting fluoride in your body. It is OK to have fluoride toothpaste and fluoride pills but not OK to have fluoride in the water? Unfortunately many parents would not bother to buy fluoride pills. When these children grow up they should sue the looneys and authorities who allowed their teeth to rot.

      • RightOfGenghis

        Yes, it’s ‘not OK to have fluoride in the water’ just to protect the stupid against themselves. We all have options. Come in Darwin…

      • Bunswalla

        Take a bit of responsibility Lesley – if you don’t want tooth decay then floss/chew sugar-free gum between meals, brush your teeth twice a day and go to the dentist twice a year.

        It’s what our kids do, and we don’t live in a fluoridated region – no fillings or decay.

      • poisonfreeme

        Name calling in an argument only lowers you own intelligence in the debate Lesley..
        You will find the kids who need more fluoride in their diet don’t drink water, they drink the sweeter alternatives.
        It’s not the authorities fault ferals don’t want to look after their kids and I don’t what to be collateral damage in a mass medication disaster thank you very much

    • Patrick

      Agree, we grew up on a farm & as kids every evening we were given a flouride tablet & a table spoon of malt. Why do we keep blaming the state for our problems? If there is no flouride in the water then go & purchase flouride tablets. It isn’t rocket science.

      • Andy C

        “& a table spoon of malt”

        Not sure that admitting to being part of a worthless fad adds weight to your argument Patrick.

        Imagine in 20 years someone said “Agree, we grew up on a farm and every evening we ate an Atkens diet / drank wheatgerm smoothies / fasted 1 day in 7 / etc …”

        • Patrick

          All very humourous Andy but the fact remains that much of what was done “in the old days” was done for good reason. Flouride tablets, pretty obvious, spoonful of malt – no idea but I guess there was a good reason as I can assure you my parents would not have spent money on it if there was no good to come of it.

          Just for your information, I doubt there were very many kids or adults working on farms years back that needed fad diets. Getting off your arse & working (physically) on a farm can burn off any amount of calories.

          Have a look today on what your taxes are spent on, a fair chunk is spent remediating those who have ignored the lessons of the past. All that dental work, stomach stapling, (supposed) ADHD etc etc. Funny how there has been an explosion in the last 2 generations don’t you think?

          • Andy C

            “spoonful of malt – no idea but I guess there was a good reason as I can
            assure you my parents would not have spent money on it if there was no
            good to come of it.”

            And yet we dont continue to do this… Why? Because malt was a fad Patrick.

            I don’t have any argument with the other comments you have made. But come on, to put in a fad/voodoo as an argument for we-knew-better-then is a contradiction in terms surely…

  • NoVictim

    Rural NZ has never had flouride in the water, has that been an issue?

    • GazzW

      Yes.

    • Mr_V4

      See comment above. There is normally a natural level of F in the water, esp if the water supply comes from groundwater rather than a river or lake – so you can’t make that statement.

      You can say that rural NZ has never put additional F in the water.

    • RightOfGenghis

      If you’re Darwins disciple yes. If you have a modicum of good sense you use fluoridated toothpaste. Problem solved…

  • conwaycaptain

    The Germans were amazed at the number of NZ PoW’s in their 20′s who had had ALL their teeth out owing to a lack of fluoride.
    These LOONEYS are the same who stand against German Measles, Mumps and Measles vaccinations.

    • Mr_V4

      Who knew the Germans had time for dental health inspections .. no wonder they lost the war. Although I suppose they were looking for the gold fillings.

    • Paranormal

      Ah no, individuals of that generation quite often decided to have all their perfectly good teeth pulled and dentures to avoid future problems.

  • Richard McGrath

    With respect, Cam, yes I think it really beyond doubt that using fluoride reduces dental decay. I can attest to that – my mother, a former dental nurse, fed us fluoride tablets daily from pre-school to about 10 years of age. As a result I didn’t need a tooth filled until I was 46 years old. It makes sense to put fluoride in the water supply. BUT there is a wider issue here, and fluoridation of water is the foot in the door for governments to legislate all sorts of medication be added to the water supply – mass medication without consent. And let’s not forget the clause in the Bill of Rights about the right not to consent to medical treatment, which is what fluoridation of water supply is.

    • Mr_V4

      Or it could be that your upbringing by your mother (being a dental nurse) instilled good oral hygiene and practices on you compared to other people in the general population? Anecdotes of n=1 are hardly a rigourous scientific study unfortunately.

      • Richard McGrath

        Point taken, actually it was n=3 as my 2 sisters were part of the same experiment. And yes I brushed my teeth seventeen times a day like everyone else does :)

      • Andy C

        But fortunately we can get much better than that can’t we v4.

        There are flouridated and non-flouridated regions in NZ. We can compare the oral health of these regions to give a much wider sample.

        And can you guess what that shows v4? Go on, guess…

        • Mr_V4

          Oh do show me. You’ll find the answer is simply not as straight forward as you think.

          Look at the NZ studies and pay close attention to the average number of dental caries, pay particular attention to the standard deviations of the sample groups.

  • LesleyNZ

    Shame on the anti-fluoride looneys and Hamilton Council. Hamiltonians boot them out in October!

  • Marty

    Marty’s Two Step Plan To Avoid Tooth Rot

    1. Brush your teeth
    2. See step 1

  • Marty

    They must be putting estrogen in the Wellington water. My neighbour has been out cutting the grass today with his shirt off. He’s got bigger tits than my wife.

    • Patrick

      Careful Marty don’t let your wife catch you leering at his cleavage

      • Marty

        Couldn’t miss them Patrick. They are like saddle bags and he really needs to fling them over his shoulders. If he’s not careful he’ll mulch his nipples with his Masport.

  • Mr_V4

    Issue with Fluoridation is this:
    There is a natural level of fluoride in the water from the underground rocks/rivers etc where the water comes from – this varies regionally.
    Evidence says too little fluroide slightly increases risk of tooth cavities but you will find alot of this data from third world areas where there are less other influences, such as availablilty of fluoride containing toothpastes, high sugar diets etc

    Unfortunately too many see fluoride as a magic pill, when the reality is it is our high sugar diet that by far contributes to the poor dental health we see these days, esp with children. Doesn’t matter whether your water is fluoridated or not.

    But hey its a great distraction.

    What I would like to see is NZ data that can show a significant difference in oral health outcomes between fluoridated and non fluoridated areas, and also info on what the natural level of F is the various water supplies. The data would also have to show any differences in the amount people vsee their dentist for a checkup etc to be of any use.

    • Richard McGrath

      I back that comment re sugar. Refined carbs are a source of much of people’s heath issues, not least obesity. Worst example I’ve seen are the rotted front teeth of infants whose parents put them to bed with a bottle of orange juice to suck on.

      • Mr_V4

        I think it is particularly important esp. when you look at studies on water fluroidation that may stem from 1950′s-1960′s USA.
        You can’t argue that diet has changed significantly since then, that is not to say Fluoride isn’t beneficial – on balance it likely is, but it isn’t a case of ‘more is better’ either.

  • Steve

    I wonder if there is such a thing as a non fluoridated area. All coca cola Amatil products bottled in Auckland are formulated with Watercare services water (90% of the product) that is fluoridated as is most mainstream beer.

  • Steve

    Spookily a similar instruction comes with sodium fluoride tablets as the one in the honey jar image except the age is lifted by a year to “under 3 years old.
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/HONEY-300×400-225×300.jpg

  • T Mardell

    I see this situation as a complex topic, with as many views as competing interests.

    Tooth decay is not caused by lack of flouride, it is caused by a wrong diet and lack of dental hygiene. Flouride in small doses can assist in arresting dental decay, but in higher doses is a poison, and actually causes another problem with teeth called flourosis – and potentially other issues. Add flouride in water to flouride in toothpaste etc, and you could easily get to that point.

    The biggest issue I see with this debate is that just talking about flouride in the water supply masks the original problem, ie diet, and as such, is helping to create a worse situation where the preponderance of sugar based products ( everything from Coke to soupsn baby foods and juices, to almost everything ) is the cause of diabetes etc later in life.

    Now I’m not going to say who is right and wrong, because the criteria for that decision is so unclear, however in a free society everyone has the right to make their own mind up, whether one be of a scientific mind, or just a concerned paranoic:)

    My Dad and his before him fought wars for a society where the powers that be could not impose their will on the population, and I would hate to see those who express an opposing view be subjected to a name calling campaign ( indicating the name callers have already lost the argument btw ) and base a decision with society wide effects on emotional behaviour.

    • Mr_V4

      Well put, and you only have to look at the article headline to see the hysteria

  • jac

    It’s not a lack of fluoride that rots kids teeth, it’s excess sugar and failing to brush at bedtime. My kids got bugger all lollies, drank mostly rain water and always “brush your teeth before you go to bed.” I think they’ve got three filling between the two of them.

  • Greg

    Oh come on if the parents want the stuff buy the pills I just want water.

    • LesleyNZ

      Water naturally comes with fluoride. Sometimes too much, sometimes too little, sometimes just right – sometimes with a “top-up” like what comes out of our tap.

  • http://manymonkeys.co.nz/ Hamilton Lad

    “The science is settled” Trust Peter Gluckman. JK does!
    How could you not trust a man who stopped us buying Sudafed!
    Saved us from becoming P Cooks overnight! Yay

    • LesleyNZ

      Yes.True. I heard you can still get a supply of Sudafed (I used to use Actifed) on prescription from the doctor. Must find out next time.

      • Richard McGrath

        And watch Breaking Bad for hints on helpful ways to use pseudoephedrine for fun and profit.

  • drummerboy

    I call bullcrap on this story.
    1. I don’t drink fluoridated water, it comes from a natural spring in petone wellington.
    2. I use fluoride free tooth past, just because this particular brand works better from me.
    3. despite doing this for the past 5 years my dentist says i have some of the best teeth he has seen. I had my first ever filling last year when i was 20, and it was minor, i blame the mass amounts of lollies and crap i ate not the fact i didn’t have fluoride.

    You can’t eat shit every day and then when your teeth fall out blame the government for not dumping sodium fluoride in your water.

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