Whaleoil General Debate

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keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

There are some rules, and if there is one thing about Whaleoil that you need to know is that these rules are dispassionately and strictly enforced.

  • Jonat
    • Blueburd

      The further this race goes the more I like Trump. I owe a lot to a lnk Pete posted on one of my comments about Trump. He is no flash in the pan and people are starting to see that, despite what the msm try and do

      • JohnO

        Trumpy had a very poweful message for black evangelicals a few days ago. No wonder he is closing the gap on “crooked Hilary”.

        As an old proverb on foreign policy goes, “Only Nixon could go to China.” But after his meeting with an African-American evangelical congregation on Saturday, someday, they might make a similar statement about race relations:

        “Only Trump could go to Detroit.”

        Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump absolutely stunned the political world with a speech that went directly to the heart of his efforts to reach out to African-American voters. And afterward, a number of African-American faith leaders said they were swayed by his comments.

        “For centuries, the African-American church has been the conscience of our country,” he said. “It’s from the pews and pulpits and Christian teachings of black churches all across this land that the civil rights movement lifted up its soul and lifted up the soul of our nation. It’s from these pews that our nation has been inspired toward a better moral character, a deeper concern for mankind, and spirit of charity and unity that binds us all together.

        “And we’re bound together, and I see that today. This has been an amazing day for me.

        “The African-American faith community has been one of God’s greatest gifts to America and to its people. There is perhaps no action our leaders can take that would do more to heal our country and support our people than to provide a greater platform to the black churches and church-goers.

        “You do right every day by your community and your families. You raise children in the light of God; I will always support your church, always. And defend your right to worship …

        “I am here today to listen to your message and I hope that my presence here will also help your voice to reach new audiences in our country and many of these audiences desperately need your spirit and your thought. I can tell you that.

        “Christian faith is not the past but the present and the future. Make it stronger. And we’ll open it up to great, great leaders.”

        Trump repeated his earlier talking points on the economy, job creation, taxes, education and immigration. He also discussed community policing and national security. But he quickly came back to his message for African-American voters.

  • GoingRight

    Hubby found this in This England magazine but I am not sure how to transfer it so here is the link. It is called Abraham Lincoln’s ‘The Ten Cannots’. It is as relevant today as when it was written many years ago although not by Lincoln (apparently).
    http:/www.nmdairy.org/President 15-08.pdf

    • GoingRight

      Making a real meal out of this this morning!

      Rev. William J. H. Boetcher wrote ‘The Ten Cannots’. http://www.appleseeds.org>10_ Cannots
      Try that if not google the Ten Cannots.

      • dumbshit

        Haven’t read them yet, but is govt funding of “outreach”, listed?

        • GoingRight

          Was written in 1916!

      • KiwiLliz

        Brilliant! Thanks for sharing.

  • Sally

    I see no one knows where to start the day so if needs must we will talk about the weather.
    A bit of hail about the place in Auckland.

    • GoingRight

      I tried to post something a short while ago but my link didn’t work so in trying to fix it ended up reporting my post and it has disappeared! So frustrating not being terribly computer literate!

    • KatB

      We’ve just had a brief sleety shower. My weather app on phone shows snow at 10am for us. We shall see.

    • Keeping Stock

      Waiouru this morning…sent to me by a friend. I’m at Auckland Airport where there’s just been a downpour to make me wonder if Noah was nearby.

    • Isherman

      Just in time for the group of protesters picketing outside Serco’s Auckland office. I love it when a plan comes together :)

    • Nige.

      We had a flash-storm in Blenheim yesterday. Beautiful and sunny as I burry one of my chooks this morning after not surviving the night.

    • Chris

      We live in the Marlborough Sounds and it is a gloriously fine sunny spring morning here. May it continue for the rest of the day.

    • Carl

      My view from the job this morning in Arrowtown and it is still snowing lightly. (Pic)

      • Blueburd

        I love Arrowtown. I have location envy

        • Sally

          So do I. Autumn is spectacular. Not sure about winter though.

    • Blueburd

      I’m sick at home again today and to be honest are quite pleased the bugs chose yesterday and today.

      Winds are howling, power is flickering hail is falling, but I’m warm and dry in front of the fire

    • El Jorge

      Another sunny day here in Nelson…..*sigh*

  • Keeping Stock

    What’s happened to the Andrew Little Cock-Up Counter? Surely between being busted for potential illegal spending, then the Auditor-General finding his complaint about Scenic Hotels to be without merit must have led to a reset.

    On the latter issue; is an apology going to be forthcoming to Earl and Lani Hagaman? It would save him a lot of money in the long term.

    • Huia

      Maybe the Scenic Hotels reaction to his lies has chastised him a bit. He is not used to people standing up to him while he sprays crisis and accusations around the place.

  • oldmanNZ

    Just why is the nzh portray the police as bullies?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11705660

    They tell, by the druken pair, how the police were “over the top”.
    The police deal with many violent drunks, they can only assume they could be too.

    They were fined, yes, they can contest that in court as always with any fine.

    So the police were not very nice.
    This is the only reason why they gone to media with this.

    Slow news day? Apple annouced water resistance iphone7 on Twitter…… 45min before cook announced it on stage.. Big deal… Apparently so. Anyone cares… Maybe a few apple fanbois the announcement was a tad askew.

    Only thing interesting in nzh is their consistent useless reporting on cop hating, pimple criminals, tabloid stories amd apple stuff

    • Blueburd

      We have health and safety laws that are made to cater for the lowest common denominator. There is probably some merit in doing this, s frustrating as it is.

      The police, I believe also need to live by this standard. Every day they are attacked,spat at, run from, lied to and any other number of undesirable acts so they need to treat each and everyone the same. on the lowest rung.

      comply and life gets easier quicker

    • Huia

      I am always stunned at how polite and self controlled the Police are in a situation where some feral is off their head shouting abuse and spitting at them. It has got so bad for me I now never watch any Police programs on tv, as it upsets me to see how violent and abusive the drunks and dope heads behave.
      Common decency goes out the window as do morals and standards .
      Domestic’s are something else that curdles my stomach especially when the “victim” starts abusing the Police for coming to its aid.

      • Miss McGerkinshaw

        Not only that but then if the police are even a little tougher with them it becomes – police brutality, police ‘attack’ this wonderful lad who is, of course, apilar of society, etc, etc.
        Like you I can no longer watch those programmes with NZ Police – although have recently been watching some US based ones on u-tube or Netflix (can’t remember where) and they certainly take no prisoners. Although not sure what the repercussions are for the police but there is not too much ‘kid glove’ action by the men in blue.

  • KGB

    Moving house day relies on fairness and common sense, that worked well until we became a world that says “trust no-one.”
    For the 3rd time we found ourselves, and all our worldly possessions on the side of the road…Homeless!
    Vendors sitting in their empty house, beside their empty garage, stating “our lawyers says not to let you on the property until he informs us that settlement is complete.”
    Now I understand why, but most people bend a little on the use of the garage, the deck, or the lawn. But oh no…not our venders.
    At least this time there was no truck & trailer unit full of sheep! Or a moving truck and 2 men sitting on the side of the road for 6 hours ‘on the clock.’
    Lawyers settle when lawyers settle. It’s all part of a chain one has no personal control over. Our purchases lawyers always seem to chose 4pm, or later.
    Now there’s some things one can do to avoid problems, but altimately how stressful the shift is depends on some lawyer sitting in a office telling clients to “not let you on the property.”
    Seriously, what could possibly go wrong if they let you in the garage? I know the answer because it actually happened to us once. Negotiating the return of their ‘stuff’ is far less stressful than sitting on the side of the road guarding your knicker draw. (This is however good use of an 82 year old who can’t help in any other way:)
    Lawyers need to fix this problem because they create it. They alone control settlement timing. I suggest all settlements being mandatory ‘am’ transactions would solve things. Avoiding Friday’s no longer works. As no-one can be trusted to put their outdoor furniture on the your lawn anymore.
    Rant over, blood pressure back to normal heights.

    • oldmanNZ

      That is sad, the money is there, just the timing, i wouldn’t let my buyers on the side of the road.

      What could go wrong?

      • Miss McGerkinshaw

        I let buyers into a home I was selling the night before settlement to ‘just drop off some stuff’ (it was empty as it it had been rented for a while as I was building my home).
        Well they actually ripped up all the carpet!! The sale went through and all was OK but I must admit I wouldn’t allow anyone to enter early again.

    • Wheninrome

      I move and settle after, if necessary bridge for a day, the banks seem to do this as generally you are remortgaging and all continues, just change of address. The other option is settle and give possession a day later it is over to the sale and purchase agreement negotiated to dictate the terms, time of settlement possession etc.,

      • KGB

        Try getting bridging finance on the pension:) We have no mortgage but couldn’t borrow the settlement figure.
        But you’re right, next time I will write “By 12 noon.” (I wonder how lawyers would cope with that clause?

        • Nessie

          I sympathise. My solicitor always settles at 12MD and the keys are available then. My last move, I picked up the keys and went around to the house only to find the the owners were still packing, because they “didn’t have time” earlier. The settlement was 6 weeks post signing the agreement! I am still cleaning up the mess they left behind – another time I would withhold a sum from the settlement in order to pay for rubbish removal but it didn’t occur to me that I would be left with it.

    • waldopepper

      could you not instruct your lawyer to settle a day earlier, or a week earlier than the contract states ? wouldnt that solve everything ? hate to say it, but if i was a vendor i wouldnt be letting people move onto the property until i had been paid either. too many instances of problems in this regard.

      • KGB

        How do you settle without funds from your own sale?
        We have tried to rent our own house back for a couple of days, but if your purchaser says no, do you lose a sale over it? Lawyers advise against it. Insurance issues, tenancy law issues, post-settlement damage.
        It really has become a problem. As our lawyer stated “the system relies on common sense and fairness.” Yet they advise against all compromise.
        The whole system needs regulating.
        Perhaps one of WOs lawyers could explain? How often do people fail to settle? Has the housing boom put them under pressure? When we spend an hour in the doctors waiting room don’t we blame the greedy doctor for booking too many patients each hour?

        • Seriously?

          No, we don’t blame the greedy doctor, but maybe we should.

          Delays in conveyancing often come about due to the needs to complete preceding transactions as you mention, or the money coming in from the banks. Sometimes in may be the lawyer, but my experience of it (I only do conveyancing very rarely but others at my firm do it all the time) they do try to get it done as quickly as possible – they understand the inconvenience that delays cause when people elect to move in on the same day as settlement.

          It is sometimes easy to blame the lawyer, but it is always their client’s decision on whether or not to let you move your stuff in. The lawyers should make sure their client understands the risks, but if the client wants to be reasonable about it they can (I did when I recently sold my house and let them start moving in their stuff three days in advance of settlement – we had already moved out).

          • KGB

            I would be really interested to know how common it is for settlements to fall through?

          • Seriously?

            I’m told by a conveyancing expert that…

            A “late settlement” (still on settlement day but between 4pm and 5pm) is not uncommon bit it is not the norm, most transactions are finalised before 4pm even where there are with cascading sales to complete. It apparently happens for a multitude of reasons most of which are out of the control of the lawyers.

            Settlement being delayed a day or two is quite rare, but does happen. It did on one I looked after where the bank stuffed up and didn’t get us the money in time.

            A complete failure to settle might crop up once a year for a busy conveyancing practitioner. If there is a significant problem it normally comes to light in advance of settlement day.

            Sorry not very specific but there you go.

        • waldopepper

          good point. im not sure. perhaps when selling your house you have a settlement date, with possession a week later, and do the same on the house you buy aligning it to your dates ? im not a lawyer so im not entirely sure, but i agree with you, it does seem to be problematic for something that should happen fairly easily.

    • JEL51

      ‘..minding the knickers drawer..’ Now don’t you come back in a while complaining your Dad left all his worldly goods to the SPCA ;)

  • Greg M

    “Famous Pic of Refugees Exposed as Massive Fraud… Look What They Cut Out”.
    And still the MSM continue the lies.

    http://conservativetribune.com/famous-pic-of-refugees-exposed/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=TheFederalistPapers&utm_content=2016-09-07&utm_campaign=manualpost

    • Huia

      sorry, cant post a link only the photos.
      This was another one used by the media to push the Liberal agenda.

  • Wheninrome

    In the herald picture of chlorine gas attack in Aleppo, nicely ironed pink hospital outfits on the victims, so something is still working in this besieged city.

  • waldopepper

    here we go again. the chiefs stripper debate rears its ugly head. why is it that its always middle aged women who are outraged. its never men or younger women. funny that. men are men, and women love the attention of men that being 20 brings. its only when they get to the late twenties/early thirties and men no longer pay them the attention that they once did, that they decry this sort of thing. pot. kettle. black.

  • XCIA

    Been there and done that!

  • Seriously?

    There is a bit of talk about the potential ban on boaties emptying human waste within a set distance of shore. I think such a ban is a good idea, but the detail might need work.

    Some of the reports are written as if it will stop people peeing over the side of their boat. I don’t have a problem with people doing that. What I don’t like is the disposal of solid waste close to shore.

    Pee is not sterile, but absent urinary tract infections is not that different to you cleaning your hands in the sea (probably better even if a little disgusting). We all might pee in the water when swimming at the beach (go on, admit it).

    What I don’t like is the idea of solid waste. We’d not do that when swimming (I hope). If there is solid waste on boats it should either we disposed of well out to sea so that it doesn’t impact the coast, or collected and disposed of properly when back on land.

    I think there may also be a distinction between large boats emptying out large quantities of the stuff (even if just urine), and smaller boats or individuals. I’d hate to see a curse liner emptying it large quantities of even just urine close to the shore (not that they can or do separate solid from pee).

    Over regulation? It will depend on the wording for me, but if some people are behaving irresponsibly them maybe we need a stick to make them pull their heads in a bit.

    • hookerphil

      I read that the intention was to ensure that the toilet waste containers were only emptied at sea if further than 1 k from the shoreline, not the existing 500m requirement. In the Picton and Havelock Sounds the shoreline is more often than not within the 1k mark so will stop the dumping of the dumps in those areas.
      What the Stuff/Marlbourgh Express headline writers did was to say “Peeing in the sea may be banned” so naturally took the whole article away from real intent. Depending the dumping close to shore is akin to saying it is okay to dump the caravan waste “out in the country” and not use a proper dumping station.
      There are existing boating dump stations at the wharf areas already.

      • Seriously?

        Yes, the freedom camper analogy is a fair one.

        It sounds like a sound restriction, and it sounds like it may be especially sound in the sounds and surrounds where sound management sounds sound.

    • oldmanNZ

      What about a pod of dolphins, im sure some would empty their bowels at some stage, i assume because they eat fish its ok.
      Or a flock of seagulls that pick at trash all day?

      Is it humans, who eat hygienicly, seem more unacceptable?

      • Seriously?

        I don’t think the dolphins or seagulls would understand or respect a restriction if it applied to them. We have to put up with that because there is no way to avoid it (unless we kill the lot of them).

        But if you take that argument to its logical conclusion I should be allowed to take a dump in your vege garden because a seagull could do the same.

        Perhaps we find human waste more unacceptable, but more likely is that it is human behavior that we can moderate.

  • box4blox

    Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are in a bar. Donald leans over, and With A smile on his face, says, “The media is really tearing you apart for That Scandal.”
    …Hillary: “You mean my lying about Benghazi?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “You mean the massive voter fraud?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “You mean the military not getting their votes counted?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “Using my secret private server with classified material to Hide my Activities?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “The NSA monitoring our phone calls, emails and everything Else?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “Using the Clinton Foundation as a cover for tax evasion, Hiring Cronies, And taking bribes from foreign countries?
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “You mean the drones being operated in our own country without The Benefit of the law?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “Giving 123 Technologies $300 Million, and right afterward it Declared Bankruptcy and was sold to the Chinese?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “You mean arming the Muslim Brotherhood and hiring them in the White House?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “Whitewater, Watergate committee, Vince Foster, commodity Deals?”
    Trump: “No the other one:”
    Hillary: “The funding of neoNazis in the Ukraine that led to the toppling of the democratically elected president and to the biggest crisis that country has had since WWII ?”
    Trump: “No the other one:”
    Hillary: “Turning Libya into chaos?”
    Trump: “No the other one:”
    Hillary: “Being the mastermind of the so-called “Arab Spring” that only brought chaos, death and destruction to the Middle East and North Africa ?
    Trump: “No the other one:”
    Hillary: “Leaving four Americans to die in Benghazi and go to sleep?
    Trump: “No the other one:”
    Hillary: “Trashing Mubarak, one of our few Muslim friends?”
    Trump: “No the other one:”
    Hillary: “Encouraging and supporting the murders of Palestinians and the destruction of their homes, towns and villages by Israel ?”
    Trump: “No the other one:”
    Hillary: “The funding and arming of terrorists in Syria, the destruction and destabilization of that nation, giving the order to our lapdogs in Turkey and Saudi Arabia to give sarin gas to the “moderate” terrorists in Syria that they eventually used on civilians, and framed Assad, and had it not been for the Russians and Putin, we would have used that as a pretext to invade Syria, put a puppet in power, steal their natural resources, and leave that country in total chaos, just like we did with Libya?
    Trump: “No the other one:”
    Hillary: “The creation of the biggest refugees crisis since WWII
    Trump: “No the other one:”
    Hillary: “Leaving Iraq in chaos? ”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “The DOJ spying on the press?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “You mean HHS Secretary Sibelius shaking down health insurance Executives?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “Giving our cronies in SOLYNDRA $500 MILLION DOLLARS and 3 Months Later they declared bankruptcy and then the Chinese bought it?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “The NSA monitoring citizens’ ?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “The State Department interfering with an Inspector General Investigation on departmental sexual misconduct?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “Me, The IRS, Clapper and Holder all lying to Congress?”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “Threats to all of Bill’s former mistresses to keep them quiet”
    Trump: “No, the other one.”
    Hillary: “I give up! … Oh wait, I think I’ve got it! When I stole the White House furniture, silverware, when Bill left Office?”
    Trump: “THAT’S IT! I almost forgot about that one”.

  • Isherman

    Rumours have existed for some time that Mahmoud Abbas was employed years back in some capacity by the then KGB. Now it seems, documents brought by a Soviet defector may lend some credence to the claims.
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/soviet-documents-said-to-reveal-abbas-was-kgb-agent-in-syria/

  • Blueburd

    Not only is crooked Hilary not fit to be commander and chief with all her lies, the chorus that she is not physically fit enough just keeps growing

  • Blueburd

    I really wish we had a msm outlet across multiple platforms in NZ that would call out the left like this. Everyday I’m thankful for WO, but are always frustrated with radio and tv and their constant pushing of their left agenda

  • oldmanNZ

    At auction today, house on block. Lot of money changing hands.

    A few asians here.

    • Seriously?

      Good luck.

      • oldmanNZ

        Thanks….. Sold. Above reserve….

  • Isherman

    Police decline to investigate Kiwisaver complaint laid by Amnesty Int’ls Grant Bayldon. Poor Nippert, he tried so hard to make this appear like a story anyone really cared about.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11705908

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