Whaleoil General Debate

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keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

There are some rules, and if there is one thing about Whaleoil that you need to know is that these rules are dispassionately and strictly enforced.

  • Nige.

    Trump is talking in Cleveland. My goodness his tone has changed. Very softly approach.

    He is pushing charter schools and merit pay for teachers BIG time.

  • Cadwallader

    I heard Twyford at 5.30am speaking to the guy on Live whose name I can never recall and had a eureka moment. Here Twyford was belly-aching that the average house price in Auckland is 17x the national average wage. He ought apply the equation as to how many times the average house price is in Auckland based on the average Auckland wage. I surmise that wages are higher in Auckland, even the teachers get the need that wages must be higher there. Twyford’s claim is as pointless as quoting how many times a house in Invercargill is above the average wage in New York. Is Twyford stupid or knowingly pushing a lie?

    • Curly1952

      You may have got the quinella with your last sentence. Not sure the odds would be too great though

    • Ruahine

      It is all about the lie. Big time Socialists are good at this.

  • George Carter

    I’ve just heard on the radio that the latest addition to the Chiefs beat up is the involvement of Louise Nichols! Without going into the why’s and wherefore’s I can’t help but think everyone is going at this the wrong way. As I understand it the stripper was upset because the players took part in acts that they hadn’t paid for. If this is the case should it be something for the industrial tribunal to look into regarding goods and services. Clearly she was happy to take part if they paid so I can’t see how it’s sexual harassment. I may be playing devils advocate a little here but it does feel like it’s all got a bit out of context!

    • Cadwallader

      If the Chiefs had hired a stripper then ignored her presence while she writhed and cooed around a firemens’ pole,(no I wasn’t there!) would she have gone to the msm claiming they all have testosterone deficiencies and how cruel they all were to have ignored her?

    • Blockhead

      Dame Susan has been on Red Radio this morning advocating another investigation.
      My understanding is that fundamentally the investigation was employment related. In employment matters you conduct your own investigation (with help if needed), but it is always the employer’s investigation. This is supported by what Steve Tew said yesterday, and the outcome was employment related – the guys were in effect given a written warning not because anything illegal happened with the stripper, but because the hiring of the stripper was the problem.

      If there was anything illegal suspected call the cops. Interesting the police have not carried out an investigation.

      If the stripper isn’t happy with the contract, then as GC says, bring an action for breach of contract in the courts. A few dollars will give access to the disputes tribunal.

      • What has race got to do with it all? Why does Dame Susan cross the boundaries of her perview?

        • Surely there are maaaaaaaaaaaaaaries in the team? Perhaps even Scarlette is a maaaaaaaarie?

        • Nige.

          Well that now tells me that those who were involved were of the same race.

        • Sally

          Maybe it is time consolidate the Human Rights Commission, Race Relation Commission and Privacy Commission into one. Let call it the Social Justice Commission. That way all the warriors won’t get confused who to have a whinge at.

        • Isherman

          While we’re on it, what the hell has the Equal Employment Opportunities Commissioner got to do with it either?

      • Minnie Mouse

        Dame Susan needs to change codes and become a Green MP, then she can round up the Feminazis in that camp and deal to the drunken rugby players. Im not supporting these drunk thugs by any means I’d like to make clear. But anyone knows these guys get on the turps quite readily and only a fool would are to writhe scantily clad in their presence. Yes, yes, I know Scarlette was only doing her job etc. etc. But come on, asking for trouble if you ask me.

    • Huia

      I am disappointed Lousie Nichols has got involved, I always had great sympathy for her case as I knew those cops.
      Lame Suzy cant seem to keep her beak out of things and stick to her job, for me any credibility she had has gone anyway.
      The Femineazi’s will have the hair on their legs in a tangle and be all over this of caurse fighting the good fight?
      The team were stupid, under the influence and egging each other on obviously.
      The stripper is hiding behind a range of excuses but not admitting to the obvious one, this would not have hit the headlines if she had been paid for each lick they took.
      Business pure and simple.
      You didn’t pay me so I am going to make you pay by going public.

    • JEL51

      Apparently there has been an open-letter penned by notable SJWs/women.
      I cannot trust myself to continue other than to say that Our Dear Rachel was positively glowing when behind the mic this morning. (Yes, she was the recipient of another enlightening txt from this mother of three)

    • Herb

      The outrage is strong amongst this collection of social/sexual justice warrior women.

      I see Stuff is trying to double down with another stripper interview. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/84078856/chiefs-stripper-scandal-womans-ordeal-recounted-in-interview)

      As I understand it – the employment investigation was lead by a Queen’s Counsel (who I suspect is better qualified to reach a reasoned and balanced conclusion than any of the outraged mob). As a result – NZ Rugby made the decisions that they were entitled to make as an employer. No corroborated evidence of assault – but a dumb decision to hire the performer, which subsequently brought the organisation into disrepute, and so a general caution to employees that this is not acceptable and will be seen as misconduct if repeated.

      Does this satisfy the media and their go to SJW icons? No. It appears that they should have assembled a royal commission – in front of a collection of worthy womens affairs academics and advocates – and conducted a lengthy examination into the broken culture of rugby. Followed by public floggings and burnings.

      If something illegal happened – call the police. If someone didn’t pay – sue them. It’s time to ‘flush the dunny’.

      • taurangaruru

        Given half a chance the SJWs would extend any examination into the broken culture of rugby to include white middle class men, they seem to be the target & cause of all ills these days in society

  • Richard

    Pull your head in Obama, it’s called ‘The South China Sea’… not ‘The tenuously Owned By UN Decree Far Off Western United States Ocean’

    • shykiwibloke

      He is still smarting after the secret security stuff up in China.

    • Blockhead

      Was in Viet Nam a while back. As fare as VN is concerned it is the Eastern Sea. No love lost between VN and China.

  • shykiwibloke

    To pinch and paraphrase a headline from this mornings Telegraph For our own country “We know Labour don’t believe in selection by ability – they chose Angry”
    This to me is the biggest issue with unions – ability is thy enemy. Just look at the Teachers Unions!

  • Huia

    I am waiting for the outrage, the racist label to be flung around left, right and centre, the disgust, the hurty feelings, Islamaphobia to take its usual poor me stand, and the media attention to be aimed at a wall being built in Calais.
    Hardly a squeak out of the media, just a bare statement that a wall is going to go up.
    No groups protesting, no banners flying, no walks for peace, no hugs for the poor illegal immigrants, I feel disorientated.
    The people who live in Calais have obviously had a gut full of the large criminal camp and the filthy ferals who camp there, the daily harassment when they are trying to go about their business and lives must be soul destroying.
    Travelers have obviously had a gut full of having to drive through a pack of feral human dogs, the long haul truck drivers must be cheering at the news a wall is going to help protect them from a violent mangy out of control mob who attack them and their trucks.
    It must be a nightmare for the people in the area.
    Cannot understand why the army hasn’t been bought in to round the lot of them up and deport them to protect their own citizens.
    But a wall, yay its a step in the right direction.

    • JEL51

      The numbers have built-up to around 10,000 now. There has to be a plan behind those numbers multiplying in a very short level of time. Hope both Britain & France have their soldiers all primed & ready.

  • Seriously?

    On the Chiefs stripper saga…

    I’m getting heartily sick of people assuming the accusations are true. Sure, we cannot rule out the possibility that all of the witnesses (the independent and the not) are lying, and the accusations are true, but it doesn’t seem the best assumption to work from at the moment.

    It seems some people make that assumption because the PC paradigm says you should never blame the victim. But who is the victim here?

    As it stands, the players, those associated with them, and the Chiefs are the victims. To assume otherwise placed ideology above evidence. And I’d say the frenzied media and SJWs were the worst of the perpetrators.

    • Wheninrome

      The victims are the players who did not take part, we are left to judge the team as a whole, I know they play as a team on the field, but this is taking it a bit far. The wives and partners are also victims. When a couple of players from a team get drunk and cause mayhem they penalise the actual players concerned, not the whole team because of the actions of the few. Why is this different.

      • taurangaruru

        From what I read even players that were not present were given official warnings. How does that work? I certainly would be kicking up merry hell if my employment record was tarnished by others actions that I did not contribute to.

        • Seriously?

          I think the warnings were because they hired a stripper for the event, nothing more. If the others players were in on that but did not attend, then okay. We just don’t know that.

          More likely they are taking some form of collective responsibility, which might be team spirited of them but is not appropriate in the context of an employment issue.

      • Seriously?

        Many of the SJWs, perhaps on the basis that the stripper is entitled to do what she does for a living (which is no doubt true), are saying that it was not her hiring that was the issue it was how she was then treated. If they are right about that then even those that hired her are victims as her accusations about the treatment cannot be treated as fact in light of the evidence.

        But I’m with you, the ones I feel more sympathy for (on the evidence as now known) are the players that were not even there.

    • taurangaruru

      I don’t understand why she would agree to cater for “additional services” at $50 a pop if the group were behaving as she describes today, i.e by her description they were a drunken mob when she arrived throwing gravel & seemingly with a pack mentality. Something about her version doesn’t stack up for me.

    • Ross

      When you want a trial by MSM what do you expect? If she had genuine concerns, her first (and arguably only) course of action should have been to the Police.

      And once again a former squash player chips in, with zero considering given to what’s actually lawful or not to tell the nation we don’t meet her moral high-ground.

    • Isherman

      Its RNZ, it seems they are now drip feeding parts of the original interview they conducted, which wasn’t aired in full at the time, this despite no police action or complaint.

    • Rebecca

      And now Dame Susan Devoy, the Race Relations Commissioner, is interviewed extensively on Morning Report about that disgusting Rugby culture. Perhaps we women have become our own race along with Muslims and immigrants.

      There’s two sides to every story and so far the only side we’re seeing is the stripper’s version supported by SJWs and MSM. I’d quite like to hear what independent witnesses had to say. If there are any female witnesses (such as the facility manager who I’m told is female) then lets hear what they saw, for a start. Advice to Rugby: no use being gentlemen when SJWs start screeching for your blood. You need to fight fire with fire and publish all.

      • Miss McGerkinshaw

        “no use being gentlemen when things reach this stage. If you’re confident your investigation was proper then you need to fight fire with fire and publish all.”
        Totally agree.
        That’s the problem with a lot of these sexual harassment cases we end up only hearing one side because the other doesn’t seem to want to be seen as besmirching or whatever the other person.
        Also when the other side doesn’t ‘retaliate’ but says we did an investigation and all is fine and dandy but no facts are given unfortunately I fear people tend to wonder what is being hidden?

      • Seriously?

        Yep, and if they made a commitment to the independent witnesses that they would keep their identities confidential, they can redact those names. Same with the players concerned – if they think they owe the players a obligation to not mention their names (as an employer may owe and employee) then redact them as well.

        • Rebecca

          With SJWs swarming, the Chiefs’ administrators have an obligation to protect their employee’s/players’ reputations if they did nothing wrong.

          Chiefs bosses: man up and protect the players. Alternatively, if there’s any independent evidence they were sexually assaulting Scarlette that you tried to brush under the carpet- then you’re pigs for thinking that and you deserve all the humiliation and emasculation the SJWs plan for you.

    • kayaker

      The NZR investigator (who just happens to be the NZR General Counsel) did not speak to her. She offered, but it was ignored.

      Steve Tew could have easily closed this down, but he has inflamed it. Dug himself into an even bigger hole on Hosking this morning.

  • Wayne Peter McIndoe

    Do teachers not realise that these stop work meetings held around the country impacts on the children concerned.

    • Nige.

      I believe that is the point. They are trying among other things, to show how much power they have over ourlives.

      • Seriously?

        Yes, they are really saying “How dare the Ministry put up an idea for discussion without our approval! We, the unions, must vet and approve of every idea before it even gets discussed because we are are the ones running this place.”

    • oldmanNZ

      Teachers union are not concerned about the kids.
      Kids are happy with a day off school.
      Parents either take a day off or leave them home alone.

  • Dan

    The Race Relations Commissioner is weighing in on the Chief’s stripper saga and she wants an independent investigation launched. I have mixed feelings on the actual event, but is she speaking as the RRC? If so she is adding woman’s rights as a “race” issue, pretty much as she regards Islam as a race.

    • oldmanNZ

      I guess, like islam and xmas, striipers are a race of people, so are rugby players.

      I think Susan definition of race is a group of people belonging to something, a country, club, occupation or even similarities.

      Which really explain her involvement in all things groupies.

  • Big_Al

    This Chiefs vs The Stripper saga has really got out of hand. All in sundry including Womans groups, Louise Nicholson, Susan Devoy and still the MSM and several more from the Do Gooders brigade are still banging on about it, like a dog with a bone.
    This incident only involves The Chiefs Players concerned and The Stripper.
    Everyone else should Mind Their Own Damn Business.

    • JEL51

      It seems very much like a set-up to get at the national sport. The Notable Women/ SJWs, have regressed into ‘pack-behaviour’ now in defense of rather silly young thing who possibly, is indefensible.
      Very similar to the ‘Diplomat’ attack.
      (this is just the view from a mother of boys, so what would I know?)

    • Michelle

      Someone is trying to bring the Chiefs down for some reason, could just be jilted ex of one of the players even but it is really getting out of hand when all and sundry and piling in and the MSM happily running every bit of tittle tattle

  • Sally

    The Herald has the headline “Which South Island Town has every home worth $1m”.
    Now I know we have readers on WO from Arrowtown and neighbouring towns, in their personal opinion do they agree with this headline?
    I, for one, would say no, there would be some over $1m.

  • R&BAvenger

    watched the Nigel Latta ‘Hard Stuff’ programme I recorded earlier this week. It was on immigration. It helped dispel a lot of commonly held beliefs on immigration to NZ. Next week, housing.

  • George Carter

    I agree with what you’re saying and the whole thing is a bad look but even a neanderthal deserves the presumption of innocence under NZ law. Too many questions for this to sit right for me,

    Why didn’t she contact the police instead of the msm?
    Why, when she entered the room and acknowledged it wasn’t a good situation, did she not just leave?
    In such a perceived dangerous environment how did she manage to negotiate extra services with one player but not the rest?
    In such a perceived, dangerous environment, why did she even offer additional services knowing it could cause issues?

    I wasn’t there so I can’t say who was right or wrong but unfortunately (and the feminists can blame themselves for this one) when a woman runs off to the press before the police it feels like a beat up!

  • spanishbride