Whaleoil General Debate

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keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

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  • Totara

    For all those with even a slight interest in physics and/or engineering, it is a relevant day today to consider the latest issue of Euro Physics News.


    “On the Physics of High-Rise Building Collapses.”

    • [MOD] I’m not happy. That’s misleading people. People must know what they click on before they click. Do that again, and lose your commenting access.

  • Disinfectant

    I have cause to deal with a number of CEO’s both public and private.

    Sadly not many of them are very good. Often they don’t want to interactive with business owners who are not part of their circle.

    I have given this a lot if thought. Is it that they are recruited by a select few recruitment agencies who again operating within their own circles.

    • Isherman

      They’re usually the ones who like to see the position as some sort of reward rather than the toughest job in any company to do right.

  • Hard1

    Clearly illustrating both why Journalists can be a slimy lot, which is why they cannot be trusted, then demonstrating that the moral virtue that can be found in every home, street and suburb should come before any economic consideration, which is another lie but sounds good, Milne slags of John Key, his son, Palino, Nathan Guy, Todd McClay. I note he did not dare slag off the Chinese Government leadership by name, very cowardly but entirely practical when lying to score points about political lying, which, of course, journalists never do.

    Jonathan Milne thinks that NZ should lose important export earnings to show the world that principle comes before practicality, and that being an honest politician is not only possible, national interest should be sacrificed when making a stand against China, who will simply stop buying our produce in retaliation. What Milne seemingly fails to understand is that lying is a valid political and economic strategy.

    Milne disingenuously writes “So, New Zealand, is that what we too want? Are we ready for the era of Post-Truth Politics?” That says we have had an era of honest, truthful politics. That is a lie. There has never in the history of NZ been an era of honest truthful politics.Milne is lying to make the point that lying is worse than driving our economy into the ground. He gets paid for this.

    “Regardless of how they may rationalise the means to the end, lying is not a legimate (sic) political strategy; it is the recourse of those who lack the courage to tell the truth.
    Just as our roads and building projects need decent reinforcing, so too our leaders need some steel in their backbones.”

    Yeah,right. Let’s make a stand, it’s only a flesh wound.

    • Old Man, Torbay.

      This looks like the same article headlined in stuff. It is shown as last updated 05:00, September 11 2016 by Adam Dudding.
      Why do I get the feeling that the writer is interviewing their keyboard.

  • Sally

    Yesterday throughout NZ there were rallies for Democracy involving everyone who is not happy with TPPA.
    In Auckland it was held in Victoria Park. Here is a photo of the huge crowd (hacked from social media).
    I am still puzzled by the tape separating the crowd from the stage. Do the organisers not trust their own supporters and afraid they will storm the stage (boredom might do that).

    • Spiker

      Its to stop the tumble weeds blowing up against the stage.

    • oldmanNZ

      Stunning turnout, i assume the mdm reported thousands turn up… Around the country.

      • Hard1

        Free Tip Top would have drawn thousands.

        • Wheninrome

          Sugar police.

      • Huia

        Probably got them to bunch up together then took a photo of the huge crowd with standing room only.
        What a bunch of wombles.

    • Wheninrome

      Imagine the cries and howls of protest if USA decide not to pass the TPPA. China is only too willing to enter negotiations for a deal. Will the USA then get blamed, because generally the yanks can’t win. We rely on them to assist in keeping the world a safer place, we blame them when it doesn’t go as we planned, and it seems the world doesn’t want Trump because he wants to close the American borders to all and sundry. You would think that would make the yank haters happy.
      But then again haters and protesters all the same, whinge whinge, and then some more whinging when the first whinge falls on deaf ears.

    • Sailor Sam

      Abviously they did not leave too much rubbish behind.

      • dumbshit

        You could say most of the rubbish walked away!

    • 250 in Christchurch, an overwhelming endorsement that John Key simply cannot ignore!

    • Nessie

      It was reported on Al Jazera last night. Nation-wide rallies they said.

      • Sailor Sam

        I could easily organise nationwide rallies, getting people to attend them that is the tricky bit.
        It appears thus that Aljazeera is no different to western MSM, just copy and paste whatever the internet throws up.

    • curry4me

      Wow, it rivals Trump rallies in size. I’m impressed.

  • Andy111A

    For anyone who has family wanting to show photos of the kids to their grandparents and don’t trust Facebook – Check out Kin2Kin. I spent the last hour adding all the family, aunts, uncles, nieces etc and I have seen the family already posting photos of their kids before 9am on a Sunday. There is a webpage version for my parents who don’t have a smartphone too.

    Now I must admit I found this app from a Herald article on new Kiwi designed Apps

    • Korau

      No Thanks.

      posting any User Content on the Service, you hereby grant the Company
      a royalty-free, fully paid up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive
      and fully sublicensable right and license to use, reproduce, modify,
      adapt, publish, translate, combine with other works, create
      derivative works from, distribute, perform, edit and display such
      User Content (in whole or part) worldwide. The foregoing grant
      includes, without limitation, any copyrights and other intellectual
      property rights in and to your User Content.”

      I maintain ownership of my stuff and don’t give it away. It really pays to wade through the morass of legal mumbo jumbo that is the T&C.

      • MaryLou

        What’s wrong with email, is what I don’t understand. Or if big photos, email and dropbox. Why do people want to share their lives with the world?

  • Dumrse

    We must stop proof reading for the cadet writers or, publish them the day after so more people get to see the youngsters disgraceful work.

  • sarahmw

    Another classic from this morning: wind and dined. Pathetic.

  • Dan

    I just read a fairly uninteresting article entitled “Trump Up, Clinton Down, Obama Silent.” However one thing stands out. Obama’s favourability rating was 40% two years ago, and is now 51%. He achieved this by largely remaining silent. Silent on his very own Obamacare, Iran deal, Russia deal, Hillary too is following the same lead – keen to sit on a shaky lead. No press conferences for 270-odd days except friendly chats with Clinton-friendly journos. Meanwhile Right-leaning Trump seems to never rest.

    Is this the latest global Leftist approach to approvals- To say and do nothing? How many days has Andrew Little helped the cause by remaining silent? The parallels are apparent (apart from the fact that one has no chance of one day leading the country).

    Do left leaning parties spend days on social media chat lines plotting a united approach or are they perhaps like “The Borg”- controlled by one master thought. Or perhaps they, like lemmings, follow the leader since they have simply run out of ideas.

    But it could be said that in NZ, the Right leaning parties too are guilty of the same. Many of us bemoan the fact that John Key’s National lead goverment appears to do the same – nothing. No really new policies excused as a form of termitis. Meanwhile people like Winston Peters, who acts more like a “Presidential” Trump, gains poularity.

    So that leads to the point. Is the result of the general World malaise with silent hamstrung established politicians a result of fear of being unpopular – because elections are now won and lost on popularity not policy. Policy is hard to tweet but popularity isn’t. It is easy to “like” a candidate but noone pays much deference to policy.

    That I guess will continue until popularity gets seen as elitist and it too becomes unpopular.

    As one lemming said to the other, “I nearly died doing this last year!”

    • JEL51

      Breitbart’s London Ed wrote a piece about spreading-the-fear, how the ‘Stay’ side claimed there would be, financial collapse and even war if Brexit were to happen. He suggested the Left are doing the same with The Race. Sure enough that is basically how each headline went last week.
      The first line that came from my dinner guest last night when we moved onto The Race for discussion was ..”Trump will start a war”
      So, maybe you are onto something with the ‘globalists’ following… …..silence/spread the fear combination.
      Can’t deny the message is getting through.

  • Les couilles de chien.

    This time on Thursday I had to leave the vineyard due to high winds and snow! Today outside not a cloud in the sky, another more typical beaut of a day in Marlborough!

  • Nige.

    Overnight Hillary Clinton called people who intend to vote Trump “deplorables”.

    Real leader talk right there. Insult half your potential constituency. Don’t try and win them over. No no no.

    Just call them names.

    Socialists really are nasty and 100% for themselves and their own kind.

  • Huia

    What a beautiful day here on the Coromandel, not a cloud (or a Clinton, Obama or Trump in sight).
    Gardening day, the world politics can take care of themselves for a few hours without any input from moi.

    • Sunnyjim

      Morning, Huia, sure is a beautiful day out here today. Moderator Nige advised last night that it is allowed to post your number, but you do so at your own risk. I’m on 021 1650410 if you’d like to meet for a coffee at some time.

      • Mrs_R

        I would edit and remove your number as soon as you hear back from Huia. Another option would be to remove it now and post it again later in the day once she is probably finished the gardening – then remove it. I would think it would be wise to limit the length of time you make your number public :)

        • Sunnyjim

          Excellent suggestion, Mrs R, thank you. You are correct and I have followed your advise and removed number for now and will try again later.

  • Hard1

    From the stirical blog “Deep Cover” comes the following disturbing report:

    “Max Key, supposed son of New Zealand Prime Minister, is actually a composite Russian/Chinese Sleeper Agent, recently activated by his handlers to pass the whole of the country into Chinese Government control, albeit covertly.
    The hidden agenda is Methane gas harvesting from cows.
    Apparently this is to be carried out from Dominion Road outwards. Bob Jones is apparently also in on this, undermining in his column the true industrial and retail investment potential in the heartland, allowing anonymous non-English speaking surrogates to quietly bed down for the future soft takeover”
    The Russian interest is the trade-off for training the agent at their secret Auckland base, which will see Kaipara Harbour housing the newly formed Вооружённые Си́лы Росси́йской Федера́ции.

  • jaundiced

    I was listening to a feature on RNZ (so you don’t have to) yesterday about the ‘cultural issues’ in our midwifing and natal services in New Zealand. A big issue is that the way we do things is influenced by our ‘dominant’ culture.

    Try going to places like Japan and accusing them that the way they do things is influenced by their dominant culture.
    Yes, in any other country it sounds absurd, yet we’ve got to the point where we devalue our ‘dominant’ culture so much that its considered a bad thing.

  • Sally

    Lisa Owen tells us that community housing providers despite government granting 50% of the building costs plus guarantee rental by the government still aren’t building houses because it is not economical and need more money.
    Just maybe these community housing providers have looked at the figures and looked at the potential tenants and realised that it not a viable option. The ongoing management of their properties is just not worth the effort.
    So instead of blaming the government maybe start looking at the actual tenants.

  • Hard1

    First Milne, now Stacy Kirk. That’s twice in one day the phrase “post-truth” is insinuated, as a deep slander.
    Someone’s doing something here, a new angle, a fake phraseology to implant into the heads of the more gullible reading public.

    Kirk reckons “Dipping their toes into the post-truth waters however, New Zealand’s politicians are trying the mantle on for size, seeing how flows and gaining surety in it as they walk. They’re dissembling through their teeth and embarrassingly, a significant group of New Zealanders are lapping it up.”

    What is post-truth? Wiki tells us “Post-truth politics is a political culture in which debate is framed largely by appeals to emotion disconnected from the details of policy and by the repeated assertion of talking points, to which factual rebuttals are ignored. While post-truth political techniques have long played a role in campaigns worldwide, the contemporary origin of the term is attributed to blogger David Roberts who used the term in 2010 in a column for Grist. It became widespread during the 2016 presidential election in the United States and the the 2016 referendum on membership in the European Union in the United Kingdom. Political commentators have identified post-truth politics as ascendant in American, Australian, British and Indian politics, as well as in other areas of debate, driven by a combination of the 24-hour news cycle, false balance in news reporting, and the increasing ubiquity of social media.”

    These writers just can’t stand the strain of living in a country that is stable, holding it’s own economically, and taking care of it’s own exceedingly sick population, where all hospitals are at bursting point, without another determined campaign to get power.
    If this country is just barely able to provide as much as it does for those who can not care for themselves, just once it would be refreshing for a writer from the left to suggest that perhaps the people themselves are the problem, not this government.

    Until then , such authors are simply propagandists, pre-truth.

    • Seriously?

      You might like this interview where Newt Gingrich explains why he’d rather be saying things that voters connect with on the basis of emotion, than things that are actually true. The interviewer was, rightly, flabbergasted.


  • waldopepper

    and so it begins. i see a stabbing in sydney’s minto park earlier today. a 22 year old man has been charged with committing a terrorist act and attempted murder of a 55 year old man. the religion of peace yet again. what a true delight these people are. a huge benefit to mankind. could we import more of them into this country. please…… please please please please please.

    • Sailor Sam

      The NSW police commissioner called the attacker recently radicalised by ISIS but suffering mental health issues.

  • Seriously?

    I think my next pet will be a dog named Allah.

    Any other suggestions?