Whaleoil General Debate

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keep-calm-and-don-t-shoot-the-messenger-3Morning everyone, and welcome to Whaleoil’s daily General Debate post (another one called Backchat will start at 6pm). To participate you’ll need to register a free Disqus account.

There are some rules, and if there is one thing about Whaleoil that you need to know is that these rules are dispassionately and strictly enforced.

  • Korau
    • Ginny

      I’ve just coined a new phrase. The other day at work, I began to feel unwell. I said to my boss, I need to go home before I do a ‘Hilary Clinton’. He knew exactly what I meant and pushed me out the door!

      • Wheninrome

        So yours was a clintons, not a claytons day off.

        • Ruahine

          Beat me to it.

        • dumbshit

          I think it is Bill, who has the “Clayton” ones!

      • Skydog

        Your boss probably expected you back in 90 minutes looking 10kgs lighter.

  • Richard
    • I really love how they come home and tell me I have to buy all this stuff on a list they’ve had for two weeks and the project is due tomorrow.

      • Richard

        Yep, we’re not quite to the age of “serious” homework & projects yet…can’t wait.

        • I remember when Mr 13 was about 10 and he and his class mates had decided to run an experiment to see how quickly firelighters would burn up. My brilliant son agreed he would bring the firelighters. I was then told I had to buy one pack of each brand so they could take it to school and start a number of fires with it and time how long they burned for.

          I can laugh about it now….

          • Nige.

            Heh. Like when I was informed I had been volunteered to buy the $50 bottle of helium for the class experiments the other week.

          • Old Kiwi

            I first read that as “how quickly firefighters would turn up” I reckon you got off lightly.

          • KatB

            First glance for me, I thought it said “how quickly firefighters would burn up”, I thought, wow tough school.

          • kayaker

            I totally read it that way too! So funny..

        • dumbshit

          Yeah, gee dad there is a class trip to America, being planned!

          • MaryLou

            Yep. Or Mexico, or Spain, or Washington… those things will start next year for me and I’m already trembling and sweating.

          • Usaywot

            School trips are really getting out of hand. They are just a thinly veiled excuse for teachers to get an all expense paid holiday, never mind how hard it is for parents to fund them or say no if they can’t afford it. Why can’t kids travel when they are older and when it will mean more to them, like all previous generations did?

          • KatB

            Totally agree with you. All these kids sports teams too, that just have to travel overseas to get experience. Rubbish, just trying to keep up with the Jones’s and stressing out everybody in the long run.

          • Miss McGerkinshaw

            Oh the good old days – I remember getting very excited about and enjoying the trip to Palmerston North for a school swimming competition and Kamo for netball as a couple of examples. Plus there was the anticipation of being billeted with a different family to experience – Would it be good? Would it be bad? Can’t say I remember a family I didn’t enjoy.
            Sounds like these days unless it is overseas it is not exciting enough and probably 5* accommodation required also!

      • kiwisnab

        I got told last night I have to go to school this afternoon to pick up the class donation for the city mission and drop it off.

      • jcpry

        My wife works in a school office and sees the often hilarious or hysterical results of children not taking home their notices/parents not going to the school website/not reading or receiving the newsletters/not reading their email.
        It drives her nuts!

        • johnandali

          But is she assuming that the parents can even read? I reckon that a good percentage of the kids who start school and have never even seen a book or heard a story, possibly have totally illiterate parents. The poor breeding the next poor generation.

          • jcpry

            Heck mate that’s a pretty nasty comment. Lighten up a bit.

          • johnandali

            Sorry if I have offended you. However, it is an established fact that a good number of children who are starting school have never seen a story book. It’s an established fact that we do have a problem with literacy and numeracy. It’s an established fact that we do have a problem with low parenting skills. We actually do have a problem, and one reason that the government established charter schools was to catch up with young people who would otherwise have left school without being able to read or write. We have to break the cycle of poor parenting skills, but it’s difficult, as parenting skills are not taught in school. Perhaps it’s time to teach these skills. So in the meantime, where are people expected to learn how to be good parents? I myself have come across people in NZ who are illiterate, and although I am not teacher trained, I have taken it upon myself to teach them to read and write. So jcpry, what’s your opinion about how we can teach our children about parenting, raise our literary (and numeracy) skills and reduce failure rates?

      • kayaker

        The part I really hated was covering the school books in that cling wrap stuff. Often it was last minute. So much stress.

      • pisces8284

        But when you have three children going to three different schools and they all have lists (that you don’t get to see until the night before) all want gold coins for this and fundraising for that, dance splash in Wellington (90 min trip) then #2 child has dance splash the next night (90 min trip again), something for a shared lunch. No wonder parents lose the plot. Thank goodness we are down to 2 schools next year

        • Heh. And yet, we love it. What a curious state of existence.

    • Ginny

      Yes, been there, done that.

    • KatB

      Finally a project that looks like the kid did it. Most of the ones I see, the parents do a really good job.

      • Wheninrome

        Sad when the parent gets a bad mark for their project, back in the day I remember a mother getting quite indignant saying she had spent such a lot of time on it, I don’t think she realised what she had said. This was way back in the 1980s, so parent assistance continues on its merry way with the attendant dissapointment.

        • KatB

          The maths fair we have in our district has some really polished entries that scream to me “parental involvement/complete control”. Sadly they quite often seem to be the ones that get prizes.

          • Wheninrome

            Well I suppose it is the ultimate parent failure if their (childs) project gets beaten by one that has really been done by a real child, how does a parent explain that away, or perhaps money changes hands lol.

        • Michelle

          I judge at a local school pet day and the other person who l work with is of the same mind set as me
          We can usually spot parent help and it does not get a prize, we tend to go for the ones that you can see the child has put the effort into but not had help
          We get asked back every year so we can’t be too bad, can we?

      • Huia

        The cartoon below takes me right back to when the kids were at school. It was either that same project scenario or, just as they were leaving the house one would remember they had to take some baking to school that day.

    • Minnie Mouse

      The same applies to all those great looking vege animals kids make to take to school for a competition. Oh and don’t forget the prize-winning floral arrangement Mum had made for Mr/Ms 8 year old as well. And not forgetting the pet calf/pet lamb which Mum has spent lots of time on feeding and teaching it to lead. We’ve got friends whose 11 year old is entering the pet lamb competition – the kid is doing diddly squat with the lamb as someone else who actually lives on a farm id doing all the hard yards while Mr Spolt Rotten will lead with the pride the fluffy thing he hasn’t done anything with. Grrrr!

      • Usaywot

        That could be easily remedied if the teachers had any gumption. Just get the kids to bring the raw materials and make the vege animals or floral arrangements in class. Too many parents are bring their kids up to be cheats.

        • Michelle

          Our local school does just that the kids bring along the raw materials and it is part of their school work

          • Usaywot

            That’s excellent. Good school and good teachers!

          • Michelle

            Country school which l think are a bit different to city ones

      • Mrs_R

        On a different note (but similar), we are currently feeding a lamb as the mother showed no interest. Normally we would have let nature take its course, but somehow (and I honestly don’t know how this has become my problem) I am left to feed this demanding and time consuming wee fellow. What normally happens in this situation? The lamb thinks I’m its mother and our golden retrievers are its best friends. He has absolutely no desire to be separated from us and I’m concerned that it won’t be able to return to the paddock with his useless mother when the time is right. Do these lambs that think they are now human readjust to paddock living? And if so, when can I move him out of his comfy living quarters (cardboard box with daily fresh bedding), and back into the paddock?

        • MaryLou

          Aww, he’s family now. If you’ve given him a name it’s all over, Rover.

          • justhinking

            Not if you call him lamb chops!

        • curry4me

          That brings back memories. If you get annoyed; just think roast, barbecue, or grilled.

          • Nige.

            Well I have this goat….. It’s only a couple of months old but already it’s got my mouth watering….and I’m no muslim.

          • curry4me

            I’ve not had goat. Does it taste a lot different to lamb, or mutton?

          • Nige.

            Apparently not ba-a-a-ad. Goat is the most eaten animal in the world. I would’ve thought you’d had a nice goat curry!

          • curry4me

            I’ve had lamb curry, but I haven’t been in a place that does goat curry. I’d certainly give it a go.

        • Michelle

          How old is the lamb? l used to feed mine for about 12 weeks but they should be outside with access to a warm dry shelter from a few days old
          It can go back in the paddock with the rest of the sheep and you call it and feed it

      • Michelle

        Yes but if they have to call it to them then they will be shown up unless the person who feeds it stands outside the ring behind child
        l have seen some lovely sparkling bright fluffy lambs at pet day but not done so well when it comes to calling and leading because the child has not done the work. Karma

    • jimknowsall

      Nice one. Personally I find the dress up days to be worse. When you’ve got two boys with little interest in clothing, putting together some kind of costume at the last minute is no joke particularly if the teachers start specifying colours like yellow, of which clothing your son has none.

    • jcpry

      My son did a science fair using optical illusions as his theme. Acknowledged as the most interesting display but didn’t place because it was not science.
      Funny I always though the study of the human brain would be a science. Apparently not.

  • johcar

    Anyone remember these?

    Spotted in the Toy Museum at Prague Castle today (my time – yesterday, https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9026446d790dba8e22833f9fab355095c5e75ebdf5445a3365826838ce4abfa0.jpg your time)

    • AL357

      Yes, I still have one that my grandparents gave me about 1960. The name cast on the back makes it very non-PC.

      • Cadwallader

        Mine says “Saving Sambo!” They were quite common for savings for children. Apart from the bow-tie the one featured here has a passing resemblance to the current POTUS.

        • AL357

          The non-PC name mine has is “Jolly N….r Bank”. Nothing unusual at the time but we have moved on.

      • Melissa

        Little Black Sambo wasn’t it? Used to enjoy putting a penny in it’s mouth as children. Just showing my age!

        • kayaker

          We had a cat called Sambo. She was just gorgeous, very bonny and gentle.

    • Curly1952

      Had one of these myself back in the day. Imagine producing them today in this PC world

    • Catsings

      Yes. I’ve got two of them here.

    • kiwisnab

      The attached picture is of a lapel pin I got in London in 1967. Given to me by my grandparents. It came with a jar of jam produced in Scotland. It measures 33 mm top to bottom. Must wear it sometime..

      • RD

        Robertson’s Jam. They used to put a paper one behind the jam label and if you collected 10 of them you could send away for a pottery figurine of a jazz player and collect the whole orchestra. As a kid, I used to raid the jars in the store and send them off in bulk!
        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6293bed16f483060b7859be750f74dda3e2001bf4ccb7f685f288f457226be9e.jpg

        • kiwisnab

          Thanks for the information.

        • pisces8284

          I remember the golliwogs in the jam and marmalade, and the book The Little Black Sambo my kids read at playcentre. Banned now

      • kayaker

        That’s awesome! Mr K is a Scotsman, I must show him this.

      • Huia

        You would be a real hit if you teamed it with a Whaleoil hat and T shirt.
        Centre of attention I am thinking.
        I would love to watch the reactions, be brave, go on, wear it to a Labour party meeting.
        You will probably upset the three people who are attending but what the heck.

        • kiwisnab

          I actually got invited by my accountants to a speech at Waipuna with Phil Goff yesterday but could not attend. I am riled up enough over the council to wear my Whale Oil cap there. One of my questions to Phil Goff would have been “can you categorically state that you will not give Len Brown another job at the council”.

          • johnandali

            I would imagine that he wouldn’t discount Len getting a job at the council. There must be jobs for meter readers, traffic wardens and cleaners. I’m sure Len would be an excellent cleaner, as he took us Auckland ratepayers to the cleaners in a big way.

          • Huia

            When he answered your question you could have then stood and asked
            “Does the Mayoral candidate stand by his statement?”

        • johnandali

          We were selling brand new golliwog dolls at our gift shop near Sydney up till the time we came back to NZ about five years ago. They were very popular. There’s nothing racist about them. They’re very appealing and they look very friendly.

          • Sailor Sam

            It is because despite what “black” people say, there are no real black people.
            At best they are dark brown people.
            Same as there are no white people, most are a lighter shade of brown, but sometimes pink or red depending how long they have been out in the hot sun.

      • Andi

        Robertson’s marmalade – you sent off the jar labels to get your golliwog.

        • Tom

          There were all sorts of different ones.

    • JohnO

      I had one for a money box in the mid 1950s. They could hold one of those copper? pennies and lift their arm and swallow the penny by working the lever at the back. It was a real motivation to save your pennies by putting them in the money box because it was so fascinating to use.

    • LabTested

      But where’s Bruce?

      • johcar

        I was worried that the museum staff might have thought I had pulled him from an exhibit, so I made sure he kept a low profile…

        • MaryLou

          Actually, that would be quite a coup! See if you can get a photo of him posing as an age old artifact somewhere famous.

          • johcar

            I’m torn between that challenge and the fact that I’m Bruce’s guardian. Would hate him to miss coming back home… :D

            But I will look or for an opportunity…

    • kayaker

      We had one of these in the ’60s. It kept snatching my money and I used to get quite upset.

    • johnandali

      Yes, it’s a Jolly N****r moneybox. Quite collectable and quite expensive. However, there are reproductions that don’t cost a fortune, and you have to be careful if you are offered one to ensure you’re not buying one of the modern ones. Easy way to tell. There are screws on the back of the figure. The modern ones have modern 4-slot Philips screw-heads. The old ones have the old-fashioned screws.

    • Tom

      Yes Had one, wish I still did. It would be worth more than I ever put in it!

  • johcar

    (Pic)

    Why aren’t minibar prices more like this in NZ?

    The beer they refer to is a can of Pilsner Urquell, and the current exchange rate makes it about $3.40 in NZD. Pretty much the same price as I could buy it at the local supermarket (here, that is) https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7593d77c184ab5284771fd09d2f49f374a2dafff69a290c69cda3525a0ad20dd.jpg ….

    • ex-JAFA

      I *love* Urquell! I once spent an entire day doing a circuit of all the bars/cafés in Wenceslas Square. Drank the stuff like it was water and got very squiffy. Grand total cost for the day: something like NZD40.

      • johcar

        There are lots of nice beers to try here and VERY cheap. I suspect the government here hasn’t really discovered excise taxes yet, but even if they had I think they would face an uphill battle implementing since beer is such a major part of daily life.

        My Czech friend tells me the government has tried and failed over successive years to bring in anti-smoking laws, mainly because Czechs, after many years of communist rule, don’t like being told what to do by their government.

  • johcar

    For the steam engine aficionados…

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bcc1392b4ba6e24e21b96f2ae27a2a15a587f39aea86c5963059fe449cad6020.jpg

    Both of these are (allegedly) working models, but are classified as “toys”

  • Davo42

    Stuff is really going after Mike Hosking at the moment – earlier in the week we had the Bernadine Oliver Kirby “walk out” that she says never was, and now speculation that Hosking is over paid – http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/84285949/calls-for-state-broadcaster-to-reveal-pay-packets

    This reminds me of the Anchorman movie. Stay Classy Hosking!
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4a9011ce0c8f9f583f33ade6b10ba5ddb9e8390a0e1d88f9120b8a10a3b5ea93.jpg

    • Nige.

      Fairfax to merge with nzme of which he is a part…. What’s going on here?

      • pisces8284

        He really got stuck into Fairfax the other morning. Sucking lemons and no sense of humour, love that morning segment

      • Davo42

        Maybe they want rid of him ahead of the merger? I remember that Judy Bailey quit when her income was made public.

    • kayaker

      Mike is probably on a contract – i.e. he bills them, so is unlikely to be on the payroll.

  • R&BAvenger

    Just paid the car Rego for 12 months online @ $85.59. Yeah/nah, still voting National.

    • Mark

      My Motorcycle is $529 they can kiss my.

  • Damon Mudgway

    I see Martin Van Beyen over at Stuff reckons us kiwis are being far too hard on Nikolas Deleget over his first brush with the law. Seems Nick has it bad because he’s a rich kid.

    I don’t really want to get into why I believe Martin to be a fool of grand proportions, but my biggest beef with his opinion piece is that it wasn’t actually just a wee brush with the law. He beat a female cop unconscious and continued with the beating while she was out. So not only a cop beater, but also a woman basher. His daddy must be soooo proud.

    • Seriously?

      He should be in jail, as should anyone who commits such an act. But I got a bit fed up with the argument that he got special treatment because his Dad is rich, or could afford a good lawyer, or because of racism.

      The New Zealand Law Society put out a statement that pointed out that any 19 year old first time offender that faced the charges he did would be unlikely to be sent to jail under current sentencing practices. I believe them. That might not be as it should be, but I believe them that it is the case as it is.

      We ought to change that, we ought to alter the law. But this is not what it is being held out to be.

      You might even argue that he is being punished more than other similar offenders because of the publicity that his case was always going to get when others don’t.

      • Damon Mudgway

        Case law can be a tricky thing. But the seriousness of this offence allowed for a term of imprisonment. I believe this to be more a case of dud judge than rich daddy.

        Although…conversely it’s a pretty cool message to those thinking seriously of knocking the odd cop out. I guess from the point of view of an offender it’s win win.

        • Seriously?

          Yes, the maximum penalty allowed for imprisonment, but judges try to impose similar sentences for similar offending. That is as it should be – you want like cases to be treated alike, whether the offender is rich or poor, white or brown, in front of Judge X or Judge Y. What the Law Society are saying is that is exactly what happened.

          I think we should alter the law, perhaps by imposing a minimum sentence (as well as maximum) is there is a serious assault on a police officer. But I don’t think there is significant amount of blame to be attributed to this particular judge – he or she is no more or less “dud” than the rest.

          • MaryLou

            Well, when the majority of the judiciary are seen to be “dud”, that’s not much of a threshold. The law already allows for imprisonment for this type of offence, so it’s not really the law that is at fault. There are some that need tweaking, but as often as not it seems to be the way the law is applied that is the problem. And the responsibility for that lies firmly on the benches.

    • Huia

      He should be spending time indoors for awhile in a room without a view.
      Mind you, in comparison, the Maori Kings son got of very lightly also because of who’s son he was.
      So one law for the privileged and not very bright and vicious apparently.

  • spanishbride

    David Seymour sent me his article on Islamic immigration today.
    I am scheduling it for our busiest day which is Monday. I am sure you all are looking forward to reading his opinion on it.

    • Seriously?

      Yes, looking forward to reading it.

      He has been saying a lot of sensible things lately, getting back to core of what ACT used to stand for. Even if you don’t agree with him, he usually raises points worth discussing.

  • JohnO

    I like how the below poll graph shows Clinton well ahead of Trump early on and then shows a smaller advantage to Clinton and now an advantage to Trump. I am going with Scott Adams prediction a lindlide election victory to Trump.
    The USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times “Daybreak” poll tracks about 3,000 eligible voters until election day, asking on a regular basis about their support for Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump or other candidates as well as their likelihood of actually casting a ballot.

    • curry4me

      I’m in Hilary’s ‘basket of deplorables’. She doesn’t belong in the Whitehouse, she belongs in the big house.

    • Seriously?

      You might like to take a look at this site John. It breaks the polling up by states, and therefore electoral votes, and shows the states in which one leads comfortably 10+%, marginally 5-10%, or that are up in the air 0-5%.

      It also has aggregates of the nationwide polling data (not that it impacts directly on electoral college votes).

      https://ig.ft.com/us-elections/polls

  • Blueburd

    Oh Dear, was anyone else left scratching their head after listening to Soper speaking with that idiot Dye on the radio.

    Soper was complaining in part about the govt plan to build 1200 new homes on the site of 300 odd state houses which are being demolished. Is comment of ” but where are the construction workers going to come from” stinks to high even (to coin a phrase from our angry mate)

    I didn’t see Soper in boots and all when the reds were quacking on about building 50000 houses? How can he makes this a bad thing?

    • dumbshit

      Must be a “Heather” factor!

      • XCIA

        Someone should remind him that “brownie points” expire at the end of each day.

  • Blueburd

    And not only that, the fact that it is foreigners buying up in NZ, but it’s fine for us foreigners to buy in OZ

  • XCIA
    • Jude

      That was hilarious thank you for sharing that!!!

  • johnandali

    I was flying from Auckland to Singapore via Singapore Airlines in recent months. They handed out free copies of the Straits Times newspaper. The paper included a full-page ad selling apartments in Melbourne. I somehow don’t think the ads were aimed at expat Aussies.

  • Nige.

    US presidential polling: (pics)

    Even if he doesn’t win he’s sent a rocket up the politicians.

    I can just imagine on election day when Clinton wins, the beurocracts and government workers across the USA will breath a collective sign of relief so big that they will feel it in China. They’ll probably blow one back too.

  • Catsings

    I’m enjoying Scott’s blog lately. Here’s a quote re Hillary from his post today – “Clinton went from being a stylish and energetic personality to a hospice patient dressed like a North Korean dictator at a rave.”

  • Disinfectant

    Hopped on the net last evening and downloaded a bit of Dave Allen for both a laugh and a bit if nostalgia.

    It was none other than the BBC that put Dave Allen on. I doubt whether it would happen today.

    We have gone backwards.

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