Forget the spin, Key Wins

You can forget the spin and bullshit emanating from Helen Clarks back orifice.

Read a real opinion.  

[quote]Make no mistake, this is a real victory for Key, disguised by the remarkable statesmanship of Helen Clark.

John Key's concentrated on what the proposed law actually said and not the wishful thinking of its proponents.

He expounded it without the extreme rhetoric adopted by what has become known as the "beaters and thrashers" camp.[/quote]

And that is the essence of the argument. John Key made a bad bill better, no matter how hard the Clarkist lickspittles try to spin it, Key outflanked Labour and made them compromise, just two days ago there was no need for a change and now there is, the real reason I would suspect, for labours crawling and fawning and backing down is sub-30 internal poll results. 



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  • Rubbish Whaleoil.


    The new ammendment

    "(4) To avoid doubt, it is affirmed that the Police have the discretion not to prosecute complaints against a parent of a child or person in the place of a parent of a child in relation to an offence involving the use of force against a child, where the offence is considered to be so inconsequential that there is no public interest in proceeding with a prosecution."

    Means Nothing. 


    "inconsequential or no public interest" – these terms are entirely arbitary.  CYFS will apply this shocking, shoddy piece of law to it's fullest extent, whenever, wherever they want.


    John Key has let down 83% of New Zealand.  Re-aligning themselves closer to the left, National is shooting themselves in the head. 


    Sorry mate, you can't try and tell us that John is a champion.  He's backed down, bending the knee to outspoken communists and "save happy valley" feminists.


    Go ACT. 

  • Whaleoil

    Good luck with the ACT thing….funny that a conservative Chirstian now supports the "liberal party"

  • SeanJ

    John Key is unprincipled .


    Whaleoil, read clause 2 of the bill (below), you will see that any form of physical contact in the name of discipline is going to be illegal. Key must know this, & there's nothing confusing about it. I'm mystified that anyone can be offended by calling this bill an anti-smaking bill. It is sill just that AND MORE….


    Smack your kids and we might put you in jail, but we will tell CYFS on you, John & Helen say so.

    But little Johnny promises to repeal the bill if he's in government, and if this new bill doesn't work (he admitted he's not sure!)…. so a few parents lose their kids, or lose their house paying for the lawyer, but that's all ok Johnny will come to the rescue to clean up the mess he's helped create, but this won't help them… 

    I agree that he's played Clark & Simpson, but at what cost? certainly not his principles, as you cannot lose something that you evidently never had in the first place.


    (2) Nothing in subsection (1) or in any rule of common law justifies the use of force for the purpose of correction.
    (3) Subsection (2) prevails over subsection (1)

  • Liberal in the true sense of the word.

    Better than a quasi-communist party thanks Whaleoil.


    What is the opposition for?

    John Key and Helen Clark

    Tell me, what the HECK is this?

  • Whaleoil

    Andy, this is what I warned you about, you have much to learn about politics my padawan.

    Restricitng yourself to a single issue means when it is all done and dusted you have nothing more to talk about. 

  • Whaleoil,

    I've only just started. Give me a week or a month.

    Why not have a shot at coming back at SeanJ's sensible comment? (3 above this)

  • dmw

    You are missing the mark on this one. Key lost the plot — and the battle.

    Take a look at Stephen Frank's opinion:


  • Whaleoil

    Oh contraire, he is playing brilliant politics.

    You see the rabid right will either vote for him or for ACT, either way the vote is the same and National still wins. Even though they may be pissed off they will NOT vote for Labour and they will NOT "not vote".

    The centre however is where it is at. Now Labour looks to have lost the initiative, they are still percieved as having rammed a law through,Key is percieved as having softened it, plus promised to change it if anyone get's it. The law was going to pass anyway, nothing he did could have stopped it. He has however improved what remains poorly written law.

    The centre voting mums in Mt Eden and Mt Albert and Mt Roskill will now look at Key as someone who they can genuinely vote for who is not at all like what Helen Clark and Michael Cullen have described how nasty national leaders are….he really looks like a decent chap. Further he looks like a Prime Minister standing on the podium essentially calling th shots as Labour bled out its support.

    The fact that Labour and Bradford went from "no way Jose" to please come and talk to us about you little amendment shows that they were copping an absolute flogging in their internal polling.

    Of course right now the very conservative right are wailing, but they still have little option other than to vote National or ACT either way the vote stays on the right and even more from the centre will abandon Labour and move to the right.


  • AndyMoore

    it does not change the bill.
    Chester Borrows and Rodney Hide have both said this .

    Why's Bradford happy with the bill? Quite obvious; she knows that it will do what she originally wanted it to do: ban parents from using any force no matter how light for the correction of their children.