John Key is lucky he doesn't have an opponent like this


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  • This dopey Marxist cronyist and trougher fails to realize that every step of making oneself rich is already taxed for exactly those purposes.

    Yes, of course manufactured goods are moved along public roads, and those moving them pay for the privilege.

    Factories are constructed on land that is taxed upon purchase, taxed yearly upon use, use resources such as electricity and water that are taxed, purchase raw materials that are taxed, hire workers for whom they must pay taxes.

    The list is nearly endless and is growing every time someone like Warren yaps “the rich aren’t paying their fair share.” She should consider getting an honest job sometime so she wouldn’t embarrass herself with this soviet garbage.

  • diabolos

    Its a passionate message but its a balanced message. It isnt Soviet – the soviets werent socialists – they were composed of a ruling class the Vlasti – and the rest.

    As i see it – its true that we’re all in it together – and its the neo liberal economic terrorists who ensure by their stated viewpoints, that her type of rhetoric has to and will, keep happening. The same thing applies with Farmers and now Fonterra – Farmers were the backbone of the country – and they made sure the rest of us knew they were the elite and the privileged – until the subsidies courtesy of the taxpayer got swept away. Fonterra now whinges that it gets criticised for bringing millions of dollars into the country. All people wanted was some stability in pricing a staple food source?? Whats the big deal? From what i read (if its accurate) they correspondingly dont pay very much tax?

    So i see this womans message as quite formidable – and you cant blame her or socialists or leftists for that message – its the balancing side of the freemarket philosophies and “rights of the corporates” that gets equally peddled by the Right.

    Take a lesson from Marie Antoinette – purported to have told the peasants “let them eat cake” – and the rest of the story is history.

    Cams right (i presume he’s not being tongue in cheek) – Key is lucky at present he doesnt have an opponent like that.

  • Sam

    The problem with this video is that it doesn’t actually make a case for higer taxes on the rich. It makes a case for taxes, full stop.

    All of the examples she uses could be almost anyone in society. We ALL drive on roads paid for by taxpayers, we ALL benefit from primary and secondary education (and many tertiary education) that is paid for or subsidised by taxpayers (not least the person who the evil big business owner employs, since that education allows them to get that job). We ALL appreciate the security and lack of ‘rampaging mobs’ that we get from the police force. This is an argument as to why we have taxation in the first place, and all she really shows is that she opposes anarchy and libertarianism. None of her critiques deal with why ‘the rich’ or ‘business owners’ should pay the high levels of taxation her and her fellows on the left would impose.

    If anything, her argument that tax is a ‘fee’ that people should pay for the ‘services’ that they enjoy is a call for a flat tax :-P

  • Dion

    I’m with Sam on this one – she seems to be advocating for a flat tax. Who would have thought?

    The question that she leaves open to discussion is what to do with those who aren’t net contributors :-)

    • diabolos

      Some huge leaps of assumption by dion and sam … the vid is too short to start making any of the assumptions made by both …

      It really just talks about the fact that we are all contributors … life and economics are an interdependant, intertwined ecosystem – no thing, group or person is able to hold themselves as outside that – or more worthy – each depends on the other. Unless you happen to hold elitist views of course about a supposed servant/master relationship. Hitler and his acolytes had a view of society – that not all were equal – that some were more deserving than others … so did Stalin and so did Mao as did Milton Friedman and also nice people like Pol Pot and General Augusto Pinochet and Baroness Thatcher – probably Ronald Reagan as well – that theorising plagues us all and we dont learn from history it seems.

      Its about understanding – that none of us in society can really stand in isolation and say we did this ‘on our own’. “No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were: any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.” (John Donne)

      I thinks thats all she was saying frankly – within the narrow context of the soundbite presented here.

      My thanks to Cam for putting this thoughtful piece up – for us all to consider ..

  • You have to consider this in American terms. In New Zealand, companies pay company tax on profits. In America, companies can avoid taxes by arguing that overseas they would pay less tax and they need a subsidy to stay in America.

  • Ming the Merciless

    A counter view from the US:
    A reader sends this response:

    Group of friends of Stanford football post on a board called On the current events board, we have debated the Warren comments. here was my response:

    “You built a factory out there? Good for you,” “Built a factory” is a summary for a lot of work. Put up equity, designed a business, took risk to buy land, get permits, pay property taxes and use taxes and permit fees. Then, bought a bunch of equipment and had it installed …and paid sales taxes. Hired some employees and paid them a bunch of money and paid payroll taxes on top of that. Bought a bunch of raw materials from companies that paid a bunch of salaries and a bunch of taxes. Building a factory is a huge private investment that pays the public a lot of taxes for the right to be built.

    “But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for.” Between fuel taxes, license fees, tolls and various taxes on transportation related activities, the roads budget is smaller than the total tax take.

    you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; No, you did not educate them. You babysat them for 12 years. Then I hired them, taught them how to be responsible and show up for work, taught them how to communicate in clear sentences, taught them that there are rights and wrongs and (unlike with your schools) wrongs have consequences in the workplace. Then paid for extended education for my employees so they could continue to improve themselves and better add value to what we do around here.

    “You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for.” Funny, my factory has 24/7 security guards because the last time it was broken into, the police did not even bother to take a report, they just said “call your insurance company”. As for fire? The closest fire department is 10 miles away. My insurance company requires that I have a full wet sprinkler system to qualify for insurance because there is no local fire protection.

    “You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.” Well, that is not exactly true. When the AFL-CIO tried to unionize my workforce, they staged three days of noisy protests outside my factory. The police forces just stood around and watched as the protesters intimidated my workers, vandalized their cars and destroyed my property.

    You say “we” like the government and society are the same. They aren’t. My company and my community and you politicians are not “we”.

    << Has a Point.

    Maybe the problem is the 12 yrs of baby sitting – hand the rocks the cradle rules the world.

    • diabolos

      Then i suspect the American landscape is not quite New Zealands.

      Much of what you say is valid – but there is another side to it and thats the point.

      You can go round and round and round and in the end we all possibly have to realise that no man or ideological viewpoint is an island.

      We all depend on each other. One side saying or implying – we are the reason you exist – is a nonsense.

      Agreed about education – the standard in this country is failing us all – and Tolleys National Standards wont make a blind bit of difference.