Cue more wailing

I’m waiting for all the wailing to start about how NZ society as a whole has a problem with killing kids, when it is apparent that it is actually only one part of our society that has the problem:

Police have launched a homicide investigation after the death of a two-month old baby girl in Whanganui.

Detective Senior Sergeant Neil Forlong said the baby, Hinekawa Topia, was driven to Whanganui Hospital by her parents just before 1pm on Thursday.

She was not breathing and attempts by her father and hospital staff to resuscitate her were unsuccessful.

A post mortem had concluded that a head injury suffered by Hinekawa was considered non-accidental, he said.

Hinekawa was one of triplets and the two other babies, both girls, were in hospital to be medically assessed and in the interim custody of Child Youth and Family, along with a five year-old boy.


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  • Pete George

    New Zealand society as a whole does have a major problem with violence and child abuse, which far too often results in kids being killed.

    ‘One part of our society’ is involved too much, especially in the worst cases. It is a Maori disgrace – but we have to remember it is only some Maori, and they are an integrated part of our society so it is a whole of society problem.

    And it shouldn’t cloud the fact that far too many non-Maori also abuse their kids, and far too many non-Maori are also involved in relationship and family violence.

    • Arnold

      not sure why this is happening, we have a fairly new law that was passed with the whole intention to see this stopping….maybe Bradford should be asked to explain why it is not working.
      As a Maori, I agree it is a Maori disgrace and we as a people need to acknowledge the fact and ask for those to be publicily shown for what they are…none of this whanau “protection” that goes on

      • Paddles83

        I appreciate your honesty in acknowledging that the Whanau Protection needs to stop and the sooner these low lifers for all walks of society are named and shamed immediately then we may be able to stop it.

      • If my sister or brother committed crimes like that against kids I’d be the first caller to the cops, it would be a race between me and my parents as to who would call first.

      • Pete George

        “If my sister or brother committed crimes like that against kids I’d be the first caller to the cops, it would be a race between me and my parents as to who would call first. ”

        Same for me. That’s why I’m involved in initiatives (mostly driven by Maori) looking at how to encourage more people to speak out when they suspect or know of abuse.

        Barrages of culturally targetted criticism is likely to promote defensiveness and closing of ranks rather than more openness and acceptance of the problems.

    • The Gantt Guy

      Pete, those are weasel-words of the worst kind. While I agree far too many mon-Maori abuse their kids, if stats were published with the instances of Maorii abuse removed, New Zealand would likely fall well within the range for first-world civilized countries. Does that make it acceptable? No of course not, but let’s deal with the cancer before we dress the stubbed toe, eh?

    • Paul Rain

      Certainly child abuse by non-Maori occurs too. The difference is that it is comparable in frequency to child abuse by similar ethnic groups in similar societies around the world. There is a point below which, unfortunately, this sort of thing cannot be lowered.

      • phronesis

        I agree. Interestingly CYFS tries to improve the stats by targeting white middle class parents. I know of two couples investigated by CYFS after their 5 year olds made outlandish claims at school like “Daddy broke my leg, last week”. Funniest part is that CYFS are always stressing that the investigation is secret and everyones privacy will be protected. Both couples told everyone they knew and practically went to the papers with how stupid CYFS was being.

  • Symgardiner

    As a society we need to have a debate. We need to answer the following questions:

    1) Is this type of behavior in society acceptable?
    2) If not, what level of personal freedom and discrimination are we prepared to give up reduce the occurrence? 

    One option is to accept that this behavior occurs predominantly in one section of society and ignore it. I suspect the majority will find this unacceptable. Ultimately it may be the better option however.

    The other option is to launch an all out attack on this behavior. This will involve significant increase in prison terms, significant spending on early intervention services (read Plunket and doctors visits), compulsion of these services, registration of children to ensure these services are provided, more regular removal of children from families and more onus on schools to “raise” some children. 

    Both options are not pretty.

    • Symgardiner

      However I suspect we as a nation are too immature to have this debate and we will stick our heads in the sand and just throw more $$$ at the problem, thereby creating more of a problem.

    • The Gantt Guy

      Symgardiner, the answer to question 1 is No. The answer to question 2 is None. While I disagree this problem is a societal one, I do suggest it’s an ecosystem one, arising from welfarism, liberal white racism and the Great Big Lie that Maori have a ‘warrior gene’ that implies they have no control over these animalistic impulses.

      Who can fix it? Well, certainly the liberal application of Other People’s money is not the answer (but is the most likely outcome). This problem can only be solved by Maori. Maori leadership has been completely lacking on this issue, content to whine and complain and stick their hands out for more of Other Peoples Money. How should they fix it? How the hell should I know – I am not Maori and I have never bashed my child so I have no subject matter knowledge. What I do know is the solution is not to be found in my wallet.

      • Symgardiner

        The Gantt Guy… so basically you are saying this behavior is not acceptable to you. But you guys sort it (not my problem). Except that it is because you don’t want to happen. 
        I agree… I don’t have the answers either. I have no idea why people make some of these silly decisions (hitting kids, having kids they can’t afford, mums bringing dangerous men into their families, etc). 
        The govt taking over people’s lives will produce a short term reduction, but it introduces all kinds of negative waves down the track. 
        The Maori leadership vacuum is a real concern. I feel that the long term fix will come from this area but they don’t stand a chance with some of the current troughers there currently. 

      • The Gantt Guy

        Well said on the leadership vacuum. Sym. And you’re wrong; this is not my problem. I do not bash my children. I do not kill my children. This becomes my problem when one of these animals tries to bash and rape my daughter (not that she is ever in a situation where that might happen). Then it becomes my problem, at which point it becomes the animal’s problem, because I won’t be giving him a cuddle and a family group conference or telling him he looks smart.

        IMHO, there are two reasons these animals breed children. (1) it’s easy money. (2) they can’t (or rather, wont) control themselves. (1) is easy, cut off their damn money. (2) is a little harder, but again isnt my problem to solve.

      • Thorn


  • Frederico

    Is Michael Laws back on the wireless?.. could be well worth tuning in this morning., should be quite a rant about the wHanganui ferals.

  • Brian Smaller

    @9bccb5dc59a7d551b63d097a3477bf5b:disqus  I am not prepared to give up any freedoms because other people murder their kids. How about the people who do it get slammed and have ALL their freedosm taken from them instead.

    • Symgardiner

      Brian Smaller… fair enough response. Then we have to accept that this stuff will continue to happen. By all means put these people away for many years. 
      However you are but one in society.
      Interestingly Australia has the same issue with the Aborigines but their proportion of the population is so small and they are not really part of mainstream society.

      • The Gantt Guy

        Yes, and the Smaller Suggestion is exactly what happened. Their welfare money was sequestered. They were effectively given food stamps for spending at the stores. The ability to purchase alcohol was removed from them. Their children were forced into school. The government basically took over every aspect of their lives. And guess what … It’s working, despite what the panty waists and handwringers are saying.

  • EX Navy Greg

    As long as the state keeps paying ferals to have children that are unwanted this will keep happening.Turn off the tap, now.

    • Steve and Monique

      Right on the money once again.Only breeding more mongrels.If they survive that is.

  • Brian Smaller

    @9bccb5dc59a7d551b63d097a3477bf5b:disqus Reducing the welfare incentives for feral people to breed with no consideration for the future of their kids is probably the only way to reduce this over time. 

  • The Gantt Guy

    I suppose we should be grateful they’ve graduated from killing them for food, to just killing them for sport now.

  • Mickrodge

    Black/White/Brown/Yellow/Indigo/Mother of Pearl…I don’t give a fuck who you are!!!

    Why do we (as a society) perservere with people who bash/murder our most vulnerable?

    What sort of society “closes ranks” to protect the perpetrators?

    As defeatist & cynical as this sounds I would rather throw money into prisons to lock these bastards up for life than spend millions on namby pamby social programmes telling these animals that “everything’s going to be alright”.

    • Gazzaw

      We all know what sort of society closes ranks to protect the perpetrators but there are not many game enough to admit it.

      How’s the Ngaruawahia case coming along?

      • Guest

        And Hail-Sage in Morrinsville.
        The Police claim that family has been co-operating fully with them, but two years on no one has yet been held to account.

  • James Gray

    One part? You mean Whanganui? I guess it is a bit of a shithole, but I never thought it was that bad…

  • Kiwidon

    Watch for the “cone of silence” to descend……….(If it hasn’t already!)

  • Keith Graham

    There should be a crime of “Child Torture”. The description Child Abuse is not nearly strong enough.

  • Apolonia

    When will the politicians admit that the anti-smacking law was a waste of time. You can’t stop crime in Auckland by putting the people of Christchurch in jail.

  • Pete George – I completely agree with what you are saying. You only have to look at the back lashing I got on the last post to know I hear you!

    Once again I think that for any solution to be viable, to be truly effective in the long term, we need to not only reform the welfare system & make Maori elders & PI heads of community (where family violence is as common as a boil up after church) take complete responsibility for what is clearly an ingrained culture of violence & abuse, but also get the majority of New Zealanders to start implementing a zero tolerance approach to all forms of abuse in their own lives. 

    As far as I am concerned, NZers – especially women, adopt the right to silence mentality across the board whereby they keep quiet & try to sweep under the carpet behaviour that is less than acceptable. Interesting & ironic given we have the top spot for being the most promiscuous. You would think that kind of ‘confidence’ would translate into a no bullshit attitude so even if mothers a still raising useless assholes, women of today would be quick to kick the bastards to the kerb. But they are not. Too many women I know do & have put up with far too much; despite my husband & I speaking up (and being shut out because of it), they continue to ‘stand by their man’.

    In conjunction with this we need to also have a first strike you’re out kind of sentencing & a concentrated approach to recognising and saving at-risk kids……which means either more foster parents, state homes, sterilization, compulsory abortions if the extended ‘good’ whanau (remember Nia Glassie’s extended family – all cries & wailing after she was tortured to death but no where to be seen beforehand of course)

    But before ANY of this NZ has to be able to say that children born into low income Maori families are more at-risk of being abused, neglected & maltreated than any other demographic without being called a racist. 

    Given that Labour et al & their supporters are so quick to throw the racist word around I really cant see this changing any time NZ. 

    I just don’t think NZers have the guts to make the decisions required that would have the most dramatic impact.

  • I would also add that child abuse in NZ is more of a MALE issue than a MAORI issue.

    Sure Maori are well & truly over represented in ALL crime in NZ & yes, we all know that the second we hear of another child dying from ‘non accidental’ injuries that the name that surely follows is some long-winded Maori name with a beautiful meaning but who has never had anything remotely beautiful in their life from the second they are born.

    BUT it is Maori MEN (well juveniles as hardly fit to be called men) that are hurting our children. And of the remaining offenders – it is Non Maori MALES.

    So if you really want to find a place to rest all the blame then sorry to say it is your lot that is doing pretty much the majority of the beating & raping of our women & children.

    But for the asshole spouse, women wouldnt be raising asshole boys. Sure women can most definitely do more to kick these bastards to the curb – one strike & they are out, but if men behaved in a way that is befitting of a man, of a spouse then there wouldn’t be an issue (other than a crazy wife driving her spouse round the bend…but that’s a side issue!).

    So I would suggest that NZ men need to take note of the Super Maori Fella’s approach, assume complete responsibility for your own gender – just in the same way you are expecting Maori communities to assume complete responsibility, and work to ensure that you always treat women with respect (what respectful man hurts children?), dont get on the piss and that you learn to express your stress & frustration in a contructive way. 

    In another words you seek to all become emotionally mature – act like grown-ups – instead of the morally repugnant assholes you are often inclined to be.

    No I am no man hater, but if you are going to blame a group then men is surely where the majority of this blame should rest? 

    And then there is the issue that Maori girls are 5 times more likely to get pregnant than Non Maori and given it seems to be mostly young Maori in the headlines that are torturing these children, then Maori need to also learn to keep their legs shut & dicks in their pants until such time they have the financial resources & patience to bring a child into this world

    • Thorn

      For comparative purposes,

      USA statistics on child abuse, rape and domestic violence (2003), children of Pacific Islanders, American Indian or Alaska Native, and  African American and  had the highest rates of victimisation at 21.4, 21.3, and 20.4 per 1000 children of same race or ethnicity respectively. 

      White children and Hispanic children had rates of approximately 11.0 and 9.9 per 1000 children of the same race or  ethnicity respectively. Asian children had the lowest rate at 2.7 per 1000 children of the same race or ethnicity.

      For 2003, 58.2% were women and 41.8% men. 

      We need a John Howard solution for our problem group.

    • The Gantt Guy
      • Are you and the sole monkey who was dumb enough to like your post for real? Seriously? You pull up a mere handful of cases that make it to the media where women are accessories to the abuse, torture & subsequent death of their children? Where a smaller minority still are held solely responsible?

        Do you just skip over such facts as one in three women experience psychological or physical abuse from their partners (aka MEN) in their lifetime or that 84% of those arrested for domestic violence are MEN; 16% are women???? Do you skip over such facts that 1 in 4 girls have been sexually abused by the time they are 16?
        Pulling up articles from google or from a blog that merely references those articles rather than writes about it himself, is not ‘education’.

        Rather than wasting my time & everyone else’s with such bullshit generalisations, I suggest you bugger off & do something useful – such as checking out MSD’s Social Reports, MOH data, Statistics NZ & Women’s Refuge scholarly articles along with volunteering with Victim Support or Women’s Refuge.

      • Thorn

        She claims she is well educated, so it must be the PMS that causing her to spit and claw. 

      • Silly comments don’t really add to your credibility do they prickle?

        Find me the research that shows it is NZ women that are the primary driver behind child abuse in NZ & I will retract.

        But you wont be able to as it doesn’t exist. 

        Of course there are plenty of women whose lack of action is intolerable beyond comprehension – such as Lisa Kuku and while she of course deserved the manslaughter conviction she got, it wasn’t her that stuffed her baby in a dryer & dropped her on her head or hung her up the clothesline & spun it around was it?

        Women who stand by & do nothing in any circumstance of abuse against their children must be held to account, but this does not detract from the fact that is NZ men who are predominantly beating, raping & abusing NZ children.

  • jay cee

    sue bradfords bill is working fine, it was NEVER about being able to stop anyone bashing their
    children it was about stopping them using the defence that they,the parents,  were using
    “reasonable force”. the so called anti smacking tag was coined by opponents to her bill.

    • Apolonia

      WRONG,  the term anti-smacking first appeared on the green party’s website as it promoted the undemocratic and unnecessary law. No one who “bashed” their child could prove that was using reasonable force.    

      • jay cee

        she was asked in an interview whether this bill was ” anti smacking ” to which she replied yes not realising the implications of how that would be interpreted,
        again i repeat people were using vacuum cleaner pipes,electric cords and the like to hit their children and their lawyers were arguing in court that it was reasonable.

    • Gazzaw

      Yup. 320 people in the Waitakere electorate obviously think that Sue did a great job.

    • Steve and Monique

      did she bring up her own children,cause I heard different

      • jay cee

        whats that got to do with the price of fish?