Stop whining and listen to your Dad

Some teenager is wanting to end child poverty, she is carping on in the Sunday Star Times about this and that and how child poverty is awful, yet she tells us all how she watched the documentary she missed online. So presumably this poor teenager has access to a decent broadband connection.

She also ignores the fact that she aspires to attend university and study law. In which other country would someone with her background of true poverty and destitution be even remotely dreaming of attending university. The fact that she is even considering that shows how lucky we are in New Zealand if only we would open our eyes.

She should stop carping and listen to her Dad who seems to actually get it:

He says the family is doing well now, but things were tough when they lived in the state house in Otangarei.

“It wasn’t very nice, it was damp, mouldy, cold – you could feel the wind coming through the whole house and that was with the doors and windows closed. It’s ridiculous living like that. But we managed to get away from there. You’ve got to pick yourself up, you can’t dwell on waiting around for this and that, you’ve just got to get out there and do it, eh?”

Her Dad understands that through necessity state house must be crap otherwise people would want to stay there for ever. She should stop trying to portray herself as the Maori Jacinda. Next thing she will want to be number 3 on Labour’s list:

“Some of my friends went to school hungry,” Jazmine says. “I can relate when children say how they live – in my heart I understand.”

It is this connection, plus Jazmine’s age, the fact that she is bright, articulate and beautiful, that is making hers such a powerful voice in the campaign to stamp out child poverty. When she speaks, people listen.

 


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  • Peter Wilson

    I get reasonably cross when I hear the phrase “child poverty.” Why not “family poverty?”. Because no-one would give a toss, and rightly so. The cause of all poverty in NZ is surely the choices adults make.

    Children going to school hungry? Please don’t say that’s poverty. How much for a bowl of cereal? Since a packet is around $5.00, then a single serving would be around 45cents I’m guessing.

    • Graeme Edgeler

      Ever considered that that might be why you hear about child poverty? Kids don’t choose their parents, or choose whether their parents smoke, or choose how many kids their parents have. It will therefore generally not be a child’s fault if they are impoverished, or go to school hungry. As innocent victims, it might therefore be considered something that people should try to fix, as opposed to the poverty of the parents and adults that you blame on those adults. People might quite reasonably think, even though this child’s parents are mostly to blame, they still shouldn’t suffer, and we should do something about child poverty.

      • phronesis

        So the state should protect these innocent victims by stopping them being born in the first place by “fixing” the parents.

  • Graeme Edgeler

    So people who aren’t themselves impoverished, but know of others who are, shouldn’t complain about poverty or try to do something about it?

    • No but she is ignoring the fact that though they were int hose same areas, it was her parents own resolve not some mythical intervention of a government that solve the problem.

    • Peter Wilson

      So if we agree the problem is parental stupidity, what to do about it? Roll on the smart cards, preventing spending on alcohol and cigarettes.

  • Mully

    I like the “mother of seven” who approached her at the shops.

    Did the feel-good reporter ask how many kids that “mother of seven” could afford?

    • jabba

      if the mother had stopped at 2-3 then maybe she wouldn’t be so skint

      • Paul Rain

        More likely if the mother had stopped at 2-3 she wouldn’t have so much money for booze and ciggies.

  • Anonymous

    What the lefties call “child poverty” is in fact “parental stupidity”. Stupidity as in spending the benefit money on booze, smokes and gambling. Stupidity as in having more children than they can afford to feed and look after.

    • Macca

      I reckon you’ve summed up the whole thing in that one paragraph Thor – well done!  Unfortunately , the way I see it, as long as the left leaning media continue to run these ridiculous articles which keep giving the snivelling socialists traction,  we’re probably going to in for a lot more of this over the next three years.  Of course, in the mean time both Labour and the Goons will keep promising the poor that they’ll fix it with money they’ll take off the rich pricks – you know, the people like the larger percentage who read this blog who actually work and pay taxes!

  • mps

    also highlighted by the news articles showing the queues at City Mission waiting for food parcels all with a cigarette in the hand or mouth………..can’t afford food but can buy smokes + they didn’t look like they were starving either. But once again the media pushed the “hard done by” story  and didn’t ask the bludgers the hard questions

  • Tristanb

    I’m so clever I spell Jasmine with a ‘z’.

    Anyway, this girl’s young. I was an idiot when I was her age too, probably more of one.

    She might take one of three roads:
    1. Continue believing that her friends’ lives are shit because of the government. Realise that there’s money to be made in selling this lie, and join the Green Party. (Labour will be history by then.)
    2. Grow up, realise that people have to start to taking responsibility for themselves. Goes to uni, gets her law degree, works for a year in NZ, buggers off to Aussie/UK, hopefully to return with the knowledge that it is up to herself how well she does in life.
    3. Start drinking and taking drugs. End up pregnant in 2 years – have everyone tell her that “pregnancy is the best thing a woman can do”, and continue living in “child poverty”.

    I hope for her sake it’s number 2 – I wouldn’t wish number 1 on anyone.

    • Frederico

      Yes you’re right to an extent that this story is primarily about a teen, female at that, from modest working class ethnic back ground rising up to confront her communities problems  nothing more, but bloody good on her for doing so! And judging by her fathers comments, there’s a survival gene there some where! We all, it we are human, want the communities we live in to be happy and healthy places to live but ironically without realising it, calling on the government to ‘do something’  she’s found the solution…..self motivation! 

    • Pharmachick

      TristanB,
      despite that your post was a joke (at least I desperately hope so) …  once upon a time I grew up similar to this young girl “Jazmine” and in a similar but different “place”. You cannot possibly imagine how powerful (and actually accessible if one just **reaches** for it) that #2 is!!!!

      • Anonymous

        Amen to that!
        But in the darker days (moving 4 hours away from my family to study, being on a student allowance and barely scraping by, seeing all the other students whose parents give them cars and cash etc), option #3 does seem like the easier choice. Self motivation and the shame of failure is what drove me through. She’s 16 FFS – when I was 16 I had no idea what I wanted to study nor what those choices entailed. 

        You are right about how accessible education is in this country. All you have to do is want it. 

  • phronesis

    If she is really lucky she could go to Otago Uni and find out what a cold, damp, and drafty house is really like. 

    • sailorx

      Yes there are some real scumbag landlords in Dunedin.Frankly if you varsity students dont have the balls to expose them then you deserve everything that you get.

  • jay cee

    shouldn’t your headline have read nationals paula bennett is going to ride on the coat tails of a 16 year old girl wanting to do something about poverty in this country, as also reported in the sunday-star-times?oh no wait, that would have put your beloved nats in a bad light wouldn’t it.anyway why stop at a 16 year old girl why not have a go at the salvation army as well ?

    • Anonymous

      Bennett is **already** doing something – she has introduced the benefit card so that beneficiaries should now spend a lot less money on booze and smokes.
      That’s a bloody good measure that should have been introduced decades ago, but not even the Clarkenfuhrer had the guts to do it. 

      • ZOLTAN

        Bennett is **already** doing something – she has axed the training incentive allowance so poor people stay poor, right where National wants them?

      • Paul Rain

        Oh my god my eyes are opened. Clearly solo parents are better off doing some arbitrary course on the training incentive allowance than… working… or doing productive courses that may actually enhance their earning potential.

  • Thorn

    Child poverty will stop when useless people stop f*cking.

  • Charles2336

    The story allowed readers to post comments and my partner posted the following 7 hours ago, but it was not published:

    “Like so many “activists”, this one expects me, the taxpayer, to pay to put food in the mouth’s of someone else’s children.

    Here are two things she could do if she is sincere:
    1. Get a job and become a tax payer so she can contribute to the funding of her cause.
    2. Discourage her friends and family from having children unless they can afford to bring them up without state handouts.”

  • Sarah

    and another child/baby is dead under non accidental circumstances..      Are we going to blame this on ‘child poverty’ too. My interpretation of  child poverty….. being deprived of parents who  truly care but having parents who don’t give a sh**t and see children as some sort of income .     Has anyone calculated how much income comes into some of these families that ‘share ‘ the accomodation. Methinks more than the average joe working his/her ass off to support family.           

  • captain kidd

    Poverty.how long have we been hearing about this,it can not be fixed by the Tax payer,otherwise it would have been years ago.I have many staff and some of the choices they make in regards to how they spend their money would make your head spin.Alot of them refuse work on the weekend because thats time to get pissed.

    • notavictim

      absolutely, same with some of my staff. 1 was employed after 6 months on the dole, first job was getting sky installed, 3 months later, cant pay the power bill, salary package $55k and no dependants.

      • Pharmachick

        seriously??? 

        If what you say is true… that your employee is on $55K+ and is defaulting on basic power etc, then one genuinely questions where the $$ are going and, at the same time; has absolutely no tolerance for wasteful tossers!  

      • $55k no dependents – at first glance I like your staff member as that sounds sensible, but still can’t pay their power bill? Clearly a moron who needs to go get budgeting advice and/or gambling or alcoholics anon. I could pay all my bills & support a healthy social life in my early 20s when fresh out of uni on $28k. $55k as a single person – I’d be able to service a mortgage too. It’s all about cutting your cloth to suit.

  • Some of the poverty in NZ is self inflicted because people make poor choices. Getting people to change bad habits can be quite hard.

    Some of it however is real and there are many who end up on the streets through sad circumstances. 

    The poor will always be with us. Short of becoming a socialist communist paradise (which only work in theory and then we can have national poverty) there is no human solution to poverty in this world. All we can do is minimise the damage. 

  • Anonymous

    The government needs to stop paying people to breed.
    At the moment, there are feckless loser women out there who shack up with loser guys, and they know that they can have as many kids as they want and the government (i.e. other taxpayers) will pay for their upkeep. That’s bloody ridiculous.
    There should be no support after the third child. If you have a fourth, fifth or whatever, then YOU should pay for their food and living costs.

    • Frederico

      Cue Tui’s ad……

    • I completely agree with your sentiments, but much prefer my solution re making the loser parents accountable for their own choices. I don’t believe in ever letting a child starve just because they had the misfortune of being born into a crap family. 

      Hungry children = uneducated & resentful children who grow up into resentful teens to wag school, tag & steal your stuff. Much better to reduce the parents benefits, put the balance on payment cards so they have no autonomy with our money then feed, clothe & educate the kids through their schools = breaking the cycle. 

      But we’re dreaming. No govt is ever going to have the balls to make real & serious changes. So the cycle will continue

    • I completely agree with your sentiments, but much prefer my solution re making the loser parents accountable for their own choices. I don’t believe in ever letting a child starve just because they had the misfortune of being born into a crap family. 

      Hungry children = uneducated & resentful children who grow up into resentful teens to wag school, tag & steal your stuff. Much better to reduce the parents benefits, put the balance on payment cards so they have no autonomy with our money then feed, clothe & educate the kids through their schools = breaking the cycle. 

      But we’re dreaming. No govt is ever going to have the balls to make real & serious changes. So the cycle will continue

      • sailorx

        Of course the problem with your loser parents is that they were probably brought up by loser parents who in turn were also brought up by loser parents.Life is full of winners and losers some bad some good.Children are the issue here you and your should thank your lucky stars that you were not born to loser parents.

      • How do you know I wasn’t You make a lot of assumptions.

    • Paul Rain

      Considering the average New Zealand woman has only slightly over two, three is more than enough for the irresponsible.

  • Super Guest

    Solution to child “poverty”?

    A) Stop calling it poverty. Poverty is what you see in a world vision ad. Kids in Africa would love a state home and couple hundred bucks a week guaranteed by the government.

    B) Massive cultural change across generations. No more of this “you cannot save yourself, you need us, you will die without us” bullshit perpetuated by the left to keep people down an voting assholes like Darien Fenton into $100,000 a year salaries.

    C) Stop pretending like you didn’t give a shit before the Bomber’s and Turei’s of the world started exploiting it for political capital. I don’t recall the Labour party of 1999-2008 making any noise about “child poverty”. They were all about “workers” and gay people and feminazis and brown people. Admit, “yeah things suck for some people and we let it get like that, pissing and moaning about it won’t help. What will?”

    D) Welfare reform that gives people a leg up rather than a hammock.

    D) Look to “B” and “D”.

    E) Rinse and repeat and realise some people are just fuck-ups and there’s nothing we can do to help them.

    F) Don’t be impatient.

  • Kosh103

    Isnt it fun when those on the right wing tell those in poverty they are not really poor at all.

    Ahhhhhh right wing blindness, works for them I guess.

    • Super Guest

      Excellent point-by-point rebuttal, there Kosh. You stupidity and zealousness knows no bounds. Can you please tell me how ‘poverty’ in NZ is as bad as actual poverty in Africa? Oh, and can you do it without saying it’s the fault of rich pricks (like warfies), please?

      • Kosh103

        Poverty is different from country to country.

        I challage you to live on what the poorest of the poor in NZ do for a month, then come back and tell me they have nothing to moan about.

      • Super G – while poverty in Africa (or India, Thailand, China etc) is real poverty in that they get nothing from no one unless World Vision etc step in, but there is some similarities – people having children they cannot afford. 

        And some would argue some level of stupidity applies given how they continue to transmit HIV despite decades of efforts to educate them on safe sex & provide them with condoms. 

        But of course – given our bulging welfare system there is absolutely no excuse for any child to be hungry in NZ, to have gone to sleep on a urine stained mattress after having had “red soup” (left over cheerio water so not even tomatoes or the cheerios) for dinner tonight.

      • Paul Rain

        So ‘poverty’ doesn’t mean anything? Cheers Kosh.

      • Alex

        @ Paul Rain: no poverty according to Kosh is the inability of New Zealanders on low incomes to purchase organic and free range foods.  In India and Africa, poverty means mere subsistence.  

      • Kosh103

        @ paul rain and alex. You 2 really are quite thick and not very good at twisting other peoples words.

        I suspect neither of you have ever had to really struggle for anything. Hence why you cannot understand what poverty in NZ is.

    • Guest

      They aren’t, i’ve spent extended periods of time on countries where there is real poverty not where the so called poor supposedly can’t afford food but still got sky digital, smokes etc

    • Mcflock

      Found a new home Roger Nome – finished the degree yet ?

  • Completely agree Peter, Thor42 & Whale et al

    There is no excuse for a child to go to school hungry or sleep on a urine stained mattress in NZ. 

    What some of these families get by way of assistance is extraordinarily generous given that they have done nothing but breed to ‘earn’ that money & the fact that the children are left still wanting shows that welfare as a long term solution, simply does not work.

    I am sick and tired of those who get so antsy about views expressed above & claim that by demanding personal responsibility that you/we/I somehow don’t care about the children. But what they fail to miss is by continuing to feed the troll, continuing to enable bad behaviour & poor decision making they are allowing children to continue to suffer.

    So for me the solution rests with:

    1) Scrapping WFF completely

    2) Reducing welfare to a temporary hardship measure only (unless on disability or sickness – and no that does not include being ‘addicted’ to drugs & alcohol….permanent rehab until they get sober for that lot I say)

    3) In the transition period while people become education in this brand new concept of personal responsibility, make every single child whose parents are in receipt of any WFF, DPB or UB a Ward of the State & administer food (3 meals a day plus snacks) clothing & education (including supplies) through the school. 

    This would essentially be an extension of what KidsCan already do. The parents would retain parental rights in name only & as their children would in effect be financially taken care of, their benefits would be reduced & the balance put on a payment card that bans all alcohol, cigarettes, lotto, tab & cash.

    Guaranteed that when all those who choose luxuries over feeding their kids or choose to piggy bank off the taxpayer so they can have 4 kids who do everything from judo to ballet to chess &  overseas holidays, find that the welfare tap is turned off, that they all become ‘educated’ very quickly.

    In terms of Paula Bennett scrapping TIA – has nothing to do with child poverty. But for the poor choices of the people concerned & their inability and/or refusal to assume complete responsibility for their own child, they wouldn’t be in the position of needing taxpayer help.

    • Kosh103

      And you as well. Go on, live on what the poorest of the poor in NZ live on. Do so for a month, then comment.

      • Kosh the poorest in NZ receive far more than what I earned for many years before my career took off

        But I wonder: have you been to their houses? Have you seen how, despite getting $700 net or so per week & sharing a house with another family so bugger all costs in their state housing rent yet still claim to never have enough money to buy a decent 2nd hand bed for each of their kids all the while they choose to buy a flat screen TV & subscribe to SKY? 

        Have you ever smelt the stench that is often associated with some of these families? How being poor is apparently synonymous with poor hygiene? Where they complain of having to move rooms because of mould rather than getting off their asses, opening the windows & cleaning their house?

        I have – but not as much as people like Lindsay Mitchell. I suggest you battle it out with her then come back.

      • Alex

        And I would say, find out the background of the people who are making these comments before you open your gob.  Most of us were not born with a silver spoon in our mouths; many of us have or had various impediments in life; many of us know what it’s like to have no money and to go hungry. 

        Only the deluded would think that after spending billions on welfare, and doing so over many decades, that the social welfare system is working.  As I’ve asked you, and many other leftists,before how many more billions do we need to spend before we come to Nirvana?    You know full well that if we were to double the social welfare payments within a very short time we would find ourselves with the same problems, if not worse, and more people whinging that the benefit levels are not enough.

        I never get an answer. 

      • Kosh I have, I was on the sickness benefit for 18 months, it sucked so I made myself get better instead of wallowing in self pity medicated with antidepressants. You know what, as soon as I stopped taking the drugs prescribed to me and encouraged by winz, i got better

      • Kosh103

        @ Alex, you may not have had a silver spoon, but you have never really had to struggle for anything. You are clueless to what real poverty in NZ is.

      • Kosh103

        Whaleoil – being on antiD’s and being on sickness do not go hand in hand. Good for you, you got off the pills. However, why did you not work when you were on them?

        Keeping in mind when you answer I too know a fair bit about depression and its very real effects.

      • Kosh you know nothing about Alex – have you met him, do you know his background, do you know his life story? His parents? His grandparents? Even if his family was well off it could be resultant from grandparents making enormous sacrifices so their future generations could benefit.

        You sound like the same kind of person who makes audacious & ludicrous comments like “you don’t deserve to be wealthy”, like the attainment of wealth (NB I regard wealth to be where you are able to pay all your bills comfortably with enough left over if the dog needs an emergency trip to the vet or the car breaks down) is mere good luck.

        So what is your story? Like a typical lefty you seem resentful and love to express the politics of envy so why? Why is it you think that getting the so-called rich to pay even more tax so the poor can live is OK? 

        Why is it you think that the rich have to pay for others choices to have more kids than they can afford, for others to refuse to adhere to budgeting advice, to choose to have sky instead of hopping on a bus with their 6 kids, putting them in childcare so they can do a course that will get them off a benefit? 

        I just don’t understand how anyone thinks this is OK, that just because someone has clawed their way up to a decent standard of living, that it is ok to tax them within an inch of their life (let’s face it – the real rich pricks have been paying bugger all thanks to Labour & their turning a blind high to tax avoidance) so others have the freedom to do whatever they like – freedom that the rich don;t have as they made those choices so they could obtain the standard of living they desired.

        Your solution seems to be to get others to take responsibility for choices that have nothing to do with them, that are completely outside their control, rather than target the individuals concerned. Yet as the last 10 years have demonstrated, this creates a generation of people who have a sense of entitlement we simply, as a nation, cannot afford.

      • Alex

        FYI: Kosh, I lost most of my hearing at aged 21, was a top student in my previous year, had to drop out of  varsity due to depression, exhaustion and lack of basic support.

        I went on the dole for over a year.  I was being besieged by counsellors and WINZ staff telling me I was a victim, and I should apply for this and that “benefit”, ACC etc.  Very alluring when your mood and confidence at low ebb to take the bait and settle into a life of dependency and non achievement.  Fortunately, my mother kicked my arse into gear.  Took me 7 years of part time study to graduate with Honours. 

        So with respect, I know what struggle is.  Like most who do know what it is, I have pretty dim view of people who will not take responsibility for themselves and their children.  All we ask is that they sincerely try.  

        But people are just not trying, and the system does not provide much incentive for them to do so.  Instead we just send them a payment and hope they’re go away for the next fortnight.  We have schooled a generation of people who think that their predicament is the government and society’s fault.  To top it off, the political Left then attack any one who dares to ask “isn’t there are better way?” 

      • Because Kosh you cunt, Depression was but one of my problems.

        Firstly there was the anxiety disorder…if I went near anything more than 10 people….I avoided the city, malls, shopping centres…I pretty much stayed at home, or my mates office…if I had to go anywhere with large groups of people i wold sit or stand with a wall behind me so I could see the whole room and everyone on it. I still do. 

        Then there is the hyper-vigilance that exacerbates the above. To top it all off the depersonalisation, google it.

        Now get fucked, you little cunt, questioning whether I could work or not according to your fucking legend in your own fucking mind know it all about depression has finally tried my patience. What the fuck would you know that 3 psychologists, two psychiatrists, an insurance company, my GP and me know about whether or not I could work.

        If you said that to my face I would actually contemplate smashing it in.

        Think long ang hard about whether or not you want to continue commenting at this site because one foot wrong and I’ll can your arse.

      • Anonymous

        Kosh – do you think all the people commenting on here have a happy, healthy upbringing? Without going into details, I grew up in the worst of what is considered poverty and do you know why that was? Because my Mum was stupid. She let stupid men into her life and made stupid choices. But I didn’t let her choices become my choices and having looked out from the inside of that situations I see no reason why any child – Maori, Pacific Island, Asian or European – should repeat that lifestyle cycle.

        So yes Kosh103, I have lived on what the poorest of the poor in NZ live on. For the first 16 years of my life. Not just the poverty but all the associated behaviour, actions and risks involved. And we’re not talking 20 years ago either – I left home less than 10 years ago, when the whole situation hit rock bottom for me. Wider family support network? Doubt it. I was on my own. 

        I worked my arse off to get where I am today – how do you think it makes me feel when, because of my current success, people like you assume that I was born with a silver spoon and all the trappings? Sure, we don’t know those poverty stricken families and their history but you sure as hell don’t know us and our histories. How dare you come here with your smug, apologist attitude and criticize us for ‘judging’ the poor when you are doing exactly the same to us?

        You’re a worse part of the problem than we are, your attitude allows people to shirk the responsibility of their decisions and blame others for their problems. The first step in resolving family poverty – personal responsibility. How do you deliver that message? Education. That’s where you come in Kosh – how effectively are you delivering that message?

      • Sarr – wow we agree on something & weirdly have a few things in common.Kosh – heed to the warnings & change your tack eh. Very few people are born into wealth & you will find that those who earn the most & those who fight the hardest to ensure that their contributions are spent wisely, that they produce good returns & represent good value for money, are those who have had to work their arse of to get it.We are a high income family & pay more tax than many earn. And we know many people in the same position & the one thing we all have in common – is that high income is never earned in a 40 hour week, it is income that often means extra hours with no overtime & long periods without holidays. It is an income that requires a sacrifice & takes years to obtain.Take John Key – bet Bronagh can count on one hand the number of years she & their children had him home in time for dinner every night.Also remember that those of us in our 30s & older quite often obtained our income in a time where the cost of living was going through the roof, where taxes were kept at exorbitant levels (thanks Labour you bastards) all the while trying to pay off student loans, save for a first house & have a baby for the eggs & sperm dried up.I dont feel that you deserve as much validation as you are getting re people sharing a bit of their backgrounds to make their point as quite frankly, it seems like you have been living in a lovely little bubble while the rest of us having been trying to scrape together a decent standard of living.Idealism is wonderful when it is not you that is picking up the tab.

      • Ksoh103

        @ Whale oil. My my it is intresting that you fly off your nut like that when questioned about your time when you could not work. Ever gotten down off that high horse of yours and thought for a moment that you were and are not the only one who has and is struggling with things that keeps a person from working?

        Perhaps next time you attack the poor you might remember your own hard times and be a little less harsh in your instant judgement.

    • oops

  • sailorx

    Dont you just love the blame culture .Wake up people, all the blaming in the world is not going to alter the situation one iota.Many children in this once fine country live in abject poverty and reside in homes unfit for a warthog.Angry vitriolic denial laden responses to this appalling situation are shameful.Heartfelt congratulations should be extended to this young woman she is worthy of recognition.

    • Kosh103

      Damm right.

    • Why can’t we keep the blame with the individuals making such poor choices (pun intended)?

      Yes you are right in saying that it is lovely a young girl has such empathy, but it is misguided therefore, will achieve no end other than to add to the ever increasing number of children needing good shoes, raincoats, beds & food.What this girl & so many others miss is that in NZ when in receipt of a benefit with children there is no reason whatsoever why one can not meet the basic necessities of life for themselves & their children.I have seen many a story of an obese mother claiming she cannot put food on the table for her 5 children, claiming it’s all because of ‘circumstances beyond her control” often while they are filmed throwing a bag of chips into the oven….I also know of many lower income families who have updated Facebook with their iphones – and this was well before they were free with the bigger plans. We are talking at least $400 a piece on the early plans.Frankly, this kind of stuff is complete & utter bullshit. There is no accountability for the money paid out resultant from the blood, sweat & tears of others and it is about time there was some. NZ is a tiny country & does not have a bottomless pit of revenue. Welfare has increased dramatically over the past 10 years yet child poverty has increased. This is not good value for money & clearly isn’t working so changes must be made.What many of these families need I find, is not just budgeting advice so they can tick things off & get their benefit, but forced education where if they don’t make chanegs the children will be provided by the state, but they won’t. Or something similar to what I have suggested above. Many NZers need a wake up call and I think being ruthless is the only way they will get the message.Ultimately anyone can make a gardening space to grow their own potatoes, broccauli, lettuce, tomatoes & capsicums & combine with supermarket veges, lentils & cheap meats to make a nutritious & filling meal. Anyone can choose to drink water instead of buying fizzy, or to buy a breadmaker & make loaves of bread for under $2 a loaf full of grains & goodness that leave you feeling full.It’s about choices – recognising that if you are on a crap wage that you have to keep your legs closed, (especially after the first or 2nd kid), that you can’t afford the luxuries afforded to those on high incomes – booze, ciggys, lotto, TVs, sky, ipods, iphones, MP3s, wonky hats, DC shoes, Nintendos, hair dies, tattoos, bling etc, that any children are your number one priority & that you will do all you can to ensure they are provided with the necessities in life.

      • EX Navy Greg

        Absolutely correct. Nice work.

    • Why can’t we keep the blame with the individuals making such poor choices (pun intended)?

      Yes you are right in saying that it is lovely a young girl has such empathy, but it is misguided therefore, will achieve no end other than to add to the ever increasing number of children needing good shoes, raincoats, beds & food.What this girl & so many others miss is that in NZ when in receipt of a benefit with children there is no reason whatsoever why one can not meet the basic necessities of life for themselves & their children.I have seen many a story of an obese mother claiming she cannot put food on the table for her 5 children, claiming it’s all because of ‘circumstances beyond her control” often while they are filmed throwing a bag of chips into the oven….I also know of many lower income families who have updated Facebook with their iphones – and this was well before they were free with the bigger plans. We are talking at least $400 a piece on the early plans.Frankly, this kind of stuff is complete & utter bullshit. There is no accountability for the money paid out resultant from the blood, sweat & tears of others and it is about time there was some. NZ is a tiny country & does not have a bottomless pit of revenue. Welfare has increased dramatically over the past 10 years yet child poverty has increased. This is not good value for money & clearly isn’t working so changes must be made.What many of these families need I find, is not just budgeting advice so they can tick things off & get their benefit, but forced education where if they don’t make chanegs the children will be provided by the state, but they won’t. Or something similar to what I have suggested above. Many NZers need a wake up call and I think being ruthless is the only way they will get the message.Ultimately anyone can make a gardening space to grow their own potatoes, broccauli, lettuce, tomatoes & capsicums & combine with supermarket veges, lentils & cheap meats to make a nutritious & filling meal. Anyone can choose to drink water instead of buying fizzy, or to buy a breadmaker & make loaves of bread for under $2 a loaf full of grains & goodness that leave you feeling full.It’s about choices – recognising that if you are on a crap wage that you have to keep your legs closed, (especially after the first or 2nd kid), that you can’t afford the luxuries afforded to those on high incomes – booze, ciggys, lotto, TVs, sky, ipods, iphones, MP3s, wonky hats, DC shoes, Nintendos, hair dies, tattoos, bling etc, that any children are your number one priority & that you will do all you can to ensure they are provided with the necessities in life.

    • Alex

      Loved the irony of your post: we can’t blame the parents, but we can blame the government (as this girl does).  So convenient.

      For god’s sake, we are so over this: we are getting sick to death of spending billions on welfare, and yet people still will not take responsibility for themselves and their children.   The leftists tell these people that it’s not their fault and thereby sap their initiative to do anything about their situation. 

      And to top it off, the media seek to make hard working, law abiding New Zealanders feel guilty and bad about themselves because some ferals can’t or won’t look after their own flesh and blood.

      This girl’s petition is just yet another useless exercise.  Not one child will benefit from it. 

      The tide is now turning.  People are sick to death of this “they aren’t to blame, they’re victims too”.  It has been the dominant philosophy in our social, education and penal policy.  It has failed. 

      But sadly we still have a long way to go, as shown by this bleeding heart judge:

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10778835

      • Kosh103

        You can blame the parents – the ones who put themselves first, who would buy smokes before their kids food. Hell yea blame those ones.

        But dont think for a moment that this means there are not real pvoerty cases in NZ or that you get to slag off the poor becuase of a few rotton apples.

    • sailorx

      You miss the point. Blame anyone governments parents whatever,the situation exists and the first step towards any cure is firstly to acknowledge the problem.I have difficulty with people who point blank refuse to acknowledge the situation for what it is.These self righteous individuals are either incredibly stupid or so locked into fear inspired denial that they exist outside the realms of reality.

      • Sailor the difference is that I think many of us do acknowledge the situation for what it is – we see the welfare system as being the catalyst for a new generation of people who appear to do what they like, when they like with whomever they like at the expense of a minority of people who are paying for their whims. 

        It is the few not the many who fund our welfare state yet the many benefit and don’t give a damn. And of this many there is a minority of what Cactus Kate calls the “feral heaving underclass” who choose to satisfy their own whims, habits & wants over providing the necessities of life for their children.

        Family poverty is largely non existent in NZ (and if it is its because they had too many children and/or have been tithing/lent money to family members etc then decided to go with the loan sharks & get nailed on the interest so yes I am aware it is more than just booze & ciggys that lead to families struggling to put food on the table) and child poverty only exists because the families do not recognise that their children are more than a meal ticket, that their children are a privilege NOT a right.

    • I agree Alex

      We all make the same mistakes at one time or another, but choosing to learn from them does seem to be beyond the capability of many & with the current welfare system being such a free ride there is really no incentive for them to ever learn!

  • Gazzaw

    Anyone read the Herald yet? Another baby dead. A pity for the parents – means the benefit will be reduced.

    • EX Navy Greg

      Yep,  W (h) anganui this time. don’t worry, the police will be negotiating with the whanau as we speak to arrange a suitable time for them to visit the station, say a karakia, Wait for Lorraine Smith to turn up, then send the invoice to us. Situation normal again.

  • sailorx

    Just out of interest what does a packet of cigarettes a slab of beer and a tinny of weed cost. As a non user of any these luxuries I am curious to know.I find it very hard to believe that anyone on any sort of benefit including the widely abused superannuation can buy any significant amount of these articles without spending and consuming the total benefit within three hours.

    • EX Navy Greg

      Spot on sailorx. As a central city resident, the queue outside the city mission starts to build the day after benefit day.
      Winfield 25’s $18.20
      Box of woodstock $40.00 approx
      Tinny about $100 for a good bag.
      Weeks benny gone before lunchtime.

      • Assuming of course they are paying for the weed & are not growing it…..!

        According to MSD,a “sole parent, with two dependent children, renting in Auckland on DPB could receive approximately $580 per week including Accommodation Supplement and other allowances”

        If you are on the average wage with 2 kids you get $749 per week in the hand plus child care subsidy etc (total $595)

        If you have 4 kids on the same wage you get at least $346 (total $886)

        Then look at average costs p/w (emigrate or stats NZ) for rent ($300?), food ($200), public transport, basic phone, heating, doctors, school fees, clothing = about $600.

      • sailorx

        Thanks for that ex matelot.That is what I was seeking.Now can someone tell me how having spent a weeks benefit on dubious pleasures these people can now afford satellite tv, three cars, daily visits to the tab boats caravans and all the other goodies that some posters imagine  long term beneficiaries have access to.

      • Sailor what I suggest you do is 1) volunteer for ambulance, beneficiary advocate, or victim support so you get access to some of these homes and 2) go for a wee drive to the dark side of town & count how many satalite dishes you see.

        THEN keep an eye on who comes out of these homes, who buys what at the supermarkets (e.g. booze, ciggys, junk food & crap cheap nasty meats) & hang out at the local pub or TAB and see if you can make a match.

      • EX Navy Greg

        Sailorx, that’s the easy part! get 4 families( i use the term loosely) living in the same taxpayer subsidised house. One benny pays for the above x2, one benny pays for the sky etc, one benny pays for the food for 18 people, with the kids last in line. If the kids are looking a bit skinny , turn up at the city mission for a handout. I live 200m from Auckland city mission, that’s the way it is.

  • sailorx

    unsolicitedious.I hear what you are saying.I am no lover of the welfare state would far rather see people at work living in comfort and harmony etc.However that is the stuff that dreams are made of. The reality is that poverty, in particular child poverty  does exist in a big way and a country with sick undernourished and malfunctioning children has real problems facing it in the future.Please dont tell me about Africa I have live and worked all over the world we live at present in a developed country the thought of descending into the third world is an unpleasent prospect.

    • sailorx

      unsolicitedious.I would give what little I have in order to carry out some of your suggestions.However without wishing to bore you and others suffice to say that I have a terminal respiratory disease which restricts me to a small area of my home.You can be assured that in the past I have done my share in attempting to better the lot of others who have been less fortunate than myself.However that is neither here nor there.Children living in poverty and substandard housing is the issue and in my opinion this is an obscene state of affairs.

      • Sailor re “Children living in poverty and substandard housing is the issue and in my opinion this is an obscene state of affairs.” – completely agree, it is OBSCENE that people can value children so little to treat them worse than their family dog.

        Disability or illness is more often than not beyond ones control but to get pregnant straight out of school then go on to have multiple children (which you would have worked out by number one child that you clearly cant afford), to choose substance & luxuries over providing them with the necessities in life (even after you have lined up at the city mission), is not. To me such people are socio paths.

        I also think you will find that many of us are charitable – the rich man/camel/kingdom of heaven only often applies to the real super rich, but most ordinary NZers on a high income are often very philanthropic. 

        And most people are all for ensuring every child in NZ is clothed, fed, kept safe from abuse & housed adequately (as a family we support KidsCan which I think has got to be the most effective charity out there), but that doesn’t mean we want to validate the bad choices that often lead to these children going without.

        I completely understand that life stuff happens so can have empathy for the odd mistake where some fail to have the foresight that a $500k house (borrowing at least 80%) on a 2 parent income of $100k or so (even $150k) is just stupid, especially when you choose to have one child. But such people lose my vote when they go on to have the 2nd child, borrow to get the near new car, overseas holidays etc etc

        Likewise for those on the minimum wage – of course I have empathy for those who might find themselves pregnant & struggling. But when they go on to have the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th kid well, that’s taking the piss. But to go on & choose luxuries over feeding your kids – socio paths who should be charged with abuse.

  • sailorx

    Well all I can say is exnavy greg is that the beneficiaries that you know differ greatly from the ones of my aquaintance I dont know any who live four families to a house use drugs gamble have computers or sattelite tv.The beneficiaries that I know are busy trying to survive from day to day most are middle aged  ball broken by repeated involuntary job loss and a system that conveniently forgets that they have been hardworking taxpayers for most of their lives.Just out of interest are you receiving that nice taxpayer funded navy pension that you guys get given in return for for spending a few years lolling around Devonport navy barracks.

  • EX Navy Greg

    FYI, the “pension ” ended about 20 yrs ago. I am now self employed.

    • sailorx

      good luck to you bud, I wish no ill will toward anyone.With regard to entitlement perhaps it starts at the top there are a lot of wealthy people around who also feel that they are entitled to their wealth and probably most are.However as with beneficiaries there are some bad eggs who have gained their wealth in an unscrupulous manner on the backs of others.As with everything in life you have to take the salt with the sugar.Didnt realise that the pension was finished sorry about that used to work with ex jacks and they were always skiting about how they didnt really need to work.

  • EX Navy Greg

    All good sailorx. photo attached from my last deployment before I  left a few months ago.
    A picture paints a thousand words , and this one of me in front of CV Rena does too.
    It says “peace”

  • Anonymous

    Nigh on 70 years ago, my father told me “I left school at 13 and was sent out to work as a message boy. In my life I have managed to get to a stage when you will be able to choose the outcomes you want.” I was able to get to University, become a teacher, and thus the first generation in my family to go  to University. Dad was immensely proud – both of me and the country which allowed this to happen. My three kids went to University and gained PhD, and now their families are as bored and fastidious as others of their age group.

    The lesson is that in my father’s time there was no poverty, in mine there  were a handful of “poor people and unemployed”. Today  if we were to believe the indolent young there is a huge outbreak of “poverty” in the land. And of course there is no work unless the gubmint provides it.

    Dear Jazmine, get on with life. When you are a little older and have qualified as a lawyer or whatever it is, go and live and work among the “poor”. As one who lives by choice in South Auckland, and who works there, you will find that poverty is not a matter of material possessions, but of spirit. There are more living here in wealth than in all of the rest of the country.

    But it is a wealth of spirit, of family, of community, money and status of the type you speak Jazmine does not even enter in. Give it all ten to fifteen years, and then write on these matters again Dearie, I will be interested in  what time has taught you.

    • davewin “The lesson is that in my father’s time there was no poverty, in mine there  were a handful of “poor people and unemployed”. Today  if we were to believe the indolent young there is a huge outbreak of “poverty” in the land. And of course there is no work unless the gubmint provides it.”

      So very true – you have summed up the creation of generation me who expect to have everything their little hearts desire, without putting in the work & sacrifice required to get them, perfectly.

      “poverty is not a matter of material possessions, but of spirit”

      So very true.

      There are many people in NZ – especially middle & working class NZ, who grew up having bugger all. If you couldn’t afford it you went without you and who always made do, BUT who always ensured there was food on the table, roof over their heads, clothes on the back & proper beds to sleep in. These same people were familiar with the concept of saving for something you wanted – parents second job, kids paper run, milk run or whatever.

      But this spirit isn’t limited to those who claim poverty & send their children to school starving, it also extends to a generation of high income earners – X & Y who spend everything they have & more then after buying the $500k house & get pregnant, claim poverty, that they can’t pay their bills…including SKY, that money is tight for today’s young etc etc Y& then go on to have more children. The same group of people that borrow based on maximum earnings & create a lifestyle to suit then when something like the recession hits, are the first to scream poverty (but don’t line up for food parcels of course).

      I find that the issue is the same with both groups but the only difference with the lower incomes is that their bad choices result in genuine starvation & malnutrition of their children.

      But regardless of how you look at it, while either group is an absolute blight on society, those who, despite an abundance in welfare money (DPB with 2 kids is more than the minimum wage) choose to make their children go without the necessities of life are despicable beyond comprehension. So first point of call is to turn off the tap – feed the kids but not the behaviour.

    • Gazzaw

      Dave, you’re story makes me think of my dad. Brought up in a mining family in Yorkshire in the 1920s with a father who came home from Flanders to ‘a land fit for heroes’. He had to leave school at 12 & work in the pits to help support the family. Poverty stricken? They were that alright in every sense of the word but there was no poverty of spirit. He joined the RAF to get out of the poverty spiral and by  dint of his hard work and rate of aircrew attrition in WW2 retired as a squadron leader. I was the first of my generation to go to Uni too, my dad was in tears when I qualified.

      There are very few cases of genuine poverty in NZ. Seems to be a general malaise that pervades certain sectors of our society – no drive, no ambition, no self-esteem. Very sad. 

  • Anonymous

    Nigh on 70 years ago, my father told me “I left school at 13 and was sent out to work as a message boy. In my life I have managed to get to a stage when you will be able to choose the outcomes you want.” I was able to get to University, become a teacher, and thus the first generation in my family to go  to University. Dad was immensely proud – both of me and the country which allowed this to happen. My three kids went to University and gained PhD, and now their families are as bored and fastidious as others of their age group.

    The lesson is that in my father’s time there was no poverty, in mine there  were a handful of “poor people and unemployed”. Today  if we were to believe the indolent young there is a huge outbreak of “poverty” in the land. And of course there is no work unless the gubmint provides it.

    Dear Jazmine, get on with life. When you are a little older and have qualified as a lawyer or whatever it is, go and live and work among the “poor”. As one who lives by choice in South Auckland, and who works there, you will find that poverty is not a matter of material possessions, but of spirit. There are more living here in wealth than in all of the rest of the country.

    But it is a wealth of spirit, of family, of community, money and status of the type you speak Jazmine does not even enter in. Give it all ten to fifteen years, and then write on these matters again Dearie, I will be interested in  what time has taught you.

  • Brian Smaller

    Kosh challenged “Poverty is different from country to country.

    I challage you to
    live on what the poorest of the poor in NZ do for a month, then come
    back and tell me they have nothing to moan about.”

    A few years ago Kosh in 2008 we were really short of cash as bills and unexpected expenses demolished our savings. I fed our family for months on an average of about $40 a week. We did have a few things in the freezer but mostly I did it by prudent shopping and planning, and making some sacrifices.  We also had a small vege garden in the back yard.  My kids still had breakfast, lunch and dinner every day. I didn’t lose much weight either, mores the pity. Point is, it sucks having no money. Solution is to earn more. Not beg for more.

    • $40 amazing – and I thought I was a master of budgeting! I plan our expenses based on worst case income scenario where if necessary they would be reduced to the bare basics. And if necessary I would sell anything & everything & replace it with sallies stuff to rake in the extra dollars. And if necessary I would sell our house & go rent a 1 or 2 bedroom – it all comes down to whether you are prepared to cut your cloth to suit. The only thing I don’t bother to plan for is long term complete annihilation of finances – such as that resultant from earthquakes. I figure we pay enough taxes so I expect in such times our sacrifice & hard work will come to fruition.

      Re the vege garden – so very true. Your average pot of 6 vege plants costs about $3 – pick the right veges at the right time & you have to buy bugger all from the supermarket.

    • Kosh103

      Really short on cash is hardly poverty and not what the worst off of NZ are facing.

  • Anonymous

    Nigh on 70 years ago, my father told me “I left school at 13 and was sent out to work as a message boy. In my life I have managed to get to a stage when you will be able to choose the outcomes you want.” I was able to get to University, become a teacher, and thus the first generation in my family to go  to University. Dad was immensely proud – both of me and the country which allowed this to happen. My three kids went to University and gained PhD, and now their families are as bored and fastidious as others of their age group.

    The lesson is that in my father’s time there was no poverty, in mine there  were a handful of “poor people and unemployed”. Today  if we were to believe the indolent young there is a huge outbreak of “poverty” in the land. And of course there is no work unless the gubmint provides it.

    Dear Jazmine, get on with life. When you are a little older and have qualified as a lawyer or whatever it is, go and live and work among the “poor”. As one who lives by choice in South Auckland, and who works there, you will find that poverty is not a matter of material possessions, but of spirit. There are more living here in wealth than in all of the rest of the country.

    But it is a wealth of spirit, of family, of community, money and status of the type you speak Jazmine does not even enter in. Give it all ten to fifteen years, and then write on these matters again Dearie, I will be interested in  what time has taught you.

  • jay cee

    just while we’re telling our life stories here. my dad was working on road building during the “great depression” and told of the time that some guys in his gang started skiving off and not  pulling their weight when a big car pulled up and no less a luminary than bob semple the minister of works under tthe savage government got out, called over the slackers and paid them off on the spot and sent them down the road. this example he used to remind us of the need to return a fair days work for a fair days pay.
     still back to the present. i dont know where the figure of four families living together to cut down costs comes from but think about it, if we are talking about nuclear families thats at least 16 people in a house. my wife and i live in a 4 bedroom house and i couldn’t imagine sharing it with at least 14 others.i’m not sure whether our plumbing could cope either. which may go some way to explain the hygene standards of some of these people. 
     as for sky dishes on roofs do we know if they are connected? from what i understand of the unemployment situation there are fewer and fewer  jobs going out there as more and more experienced people get laid off. any jobs going are going to be snapped up by people who have the experience, no employer is going to take on someone who has done a course
    ahead of a qualified tradesman for instance.maybe i’m too proud to accept a benefit but i am currently working as cleaner on the minimum wage and my wife is an outwork machinist. even so i do not begrudge those who have to eke out a living on the dole rather i have a there but for the grace of god etc attitude. all of which brings me back to the young lady that started
    this whole debate off. she probaly is naive but at least she is trying to be part of the solution,not the problem

     

    • Gazzaw

      Onyer jay cee. The differential may not be huge between the dole and your cleaning pay but the big difference is that you and you wife want to go out there and earn your income with good honest work and not sit on your arses taking money out of the taxpayer’s pocket. You’ll get your just reward eventually mate.  

    • Really well said jay cee – you make some interesting points.

      Yes of course there are no doubt many homes that have SKY dishes on their roofs that are not connected – ours is one of them! But unfortunately the dots often connect & you find many people  – especially where the depravation of children is concerned, are just making very bad choices. Time spent volunteering with budgeting services, victim support or ambulance often gives you access to these people’s homes & let me tell you – it does little to restore ones faith in humanity, that people are naturally inclined to ‘do the right thing because it is the right thing to do’. I found my volunteer work hugely depressing.And I have to say it seems to be a cultural thing as many Pakeha have grown up poor & become self – sufficient yet for Maori & Pacific Island, being born poor seems to become destiny rather than a temporary misfortune. I think the other big part of this – especially where PI families are concerned, is the tithing & cultural expectation of lending money to other family/sending it home. Then there is faith – many religions expect/demand huge families from Jehovah Witness to Catholic or MormonIf we are going to look at why people just don’t seem to be learning how to cut their cloth to suit then these things need to be looked at too.

      In terms of the girl vs the debate – it’s not off & yes she is naive. She may be well intentioned but her aspirations are misplaced & demonstrate a lack of understanding on what child poverty in NZ really means.

  • Rososhea

    what a fucking cunt you are, someones actually out giving a fuck about people and trying to make NZ a better place. And what do you do? sit around whingeing about how everything’s a left wing conspiracy bla bla bla. You criticise people who blame the government and don’t take responsibility and then turn around and act like Labour are to blame for anything bad. fucking fat fuck hypocrite fuck you fuck you fuck you. 

    • jay cee

      and this rant is aimed at who exactly?

      • Anonymous

        Such anger, sounds like someone just had their benefit chopped, or rejected. Could be Sepuloni, I hear she’s not too busy at the moment.

  • Alex

    The essential problem with Kosh, as with many Leftists, is that he has this cartoon-like figures in his head as to what a right wing person is: we’re either racist, homophobic sexist bigots; or else we’re rich millionaires sitting in our wing chairs in the gentleman’s club, with the pipe, monocle and brandy, and saying “let them eat cake”.  Until Kosh, and kindred souls, drop this cartoon figures, there never will be any meaningful debate.    

    • Kosh103

      Intresting how you right wingers can get so much wrong so often.

      • Anonymous

        kosh103: Interesting how a stupid left winger like yourself keeps hanging around a right wing blog.

        You must be from the same gene pool as the knob that ordered a baconator with no bacon.

      • But we don’t – you have yet to put forward an argument that meets the relevance, substance & credibility test….

      • Kosh103

        Poor Travdog, hates having facts and truths out there for all to see.

        As for my gene pool – it will be a hell of a lot more advanced than the one you crawled out of.

      • Kosh103

        Oh poor Unsolicitedious. Not even aware of his/her lack of knowledge. It is no surprise the right struggle with truth and the real world.

  • Anonymous

    Jazmine never said she was poor!  Where did it say that? please show me, because i have been following it from the beginning. It amuses me that you pick on a 16yr old who only wants to help, to be the voice of all children who do not deserve to live in poverty.
    Yes, i understand that there are parents out there that “choose” to spend the money on alcohol and smokes – but why should the children suffer?

  • Killjoy

    I work in Financial Services and see how a lot of people- “rich” or “poor” spend their money.
    There is often a real disparity in financial literacy between these groups and one thing that continually frustrate me is the sense of entitlement when a major issue is a lack of ability to manage the income they do get and even worse, a lack of willingness to hear from those who have the skills to help them.
    This may sound like a gross generalisation however it is more common than not- I also live in Whangarei where this is based and my family has had a long association with this particular community.
    The entitlement lie is where a family in poverty sees it as their right to have the likes of sky “like everyone else” when that money could go to putting better food on the table or instead of getting takeaways 5 times a week, using that money to get rice and meats and plant a vege garden- if you’re not working ten you’ve got time to tend a garden (unless on sickness benefit then you may not have the capacity)..

    In saying that, if someone like Jazmine can stand up after living in this community and get a discussion happening  then I applaud her, she will probably reach more people than I ever will but I hope she is able to get people around her that will help her get people educated rather than handed out to…

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