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  • ConwayCaptain

    He wenta in a closa to wava to Maria who was awaving her knickers.

    On a serious note there have been long discussions over the years on the Conway web site on the safety of these vessels.

    The concensus of opinion, and these are all Master Mariners with many many years experience are that they are unsafe.

    1 They recruits their crews from many nationalities and usually from the 3rd world.  They have a poor knowlege of English so how can you communicate in an emergency.

    2 The officers rely totally on electronic navigation systems and donwt “look out of the window”.  Your best navigatiobn tool is the Mk 1 Eyeball.  The bridges are totally enclosed and when you are on watch you should keep watch with all your senses, eyes, ears,smell and feel.  You can feel what the ship is doing through the soles of your feet!!!!

    3 The lifeboats are slung and there is v little deck area to muster pax and this is done inside by the catering staff with no seamanship skills what so ever.

    4 If you can imagine a fire in Sylvia Park shoping centret in Akl, you could evacuate 4000 people through multiple exits v fast and the Fire Service would be teher in a short space of time along with Police and Ambulance.  On a ship out in the muddle of noweher you have to evacuate 4000 scared people, with no seamanship knowledge in the pitch balck.  Think of it and to do this you have to use 3rd world creas etc.

    5 These Blocks of Flats are verydifficult to manoeuver owing to their size and without going into the ins and outs of ship stability once flooded and if the WT doors are not shut they lose stability v fast.  Also if they ground they also lose stability and will “fall over” as we have seen with the Costa Concordia.

    What people dont realise is that 50% of the cruise market is held by Carnival Cruises.  They bought up a number of well known cruise/pax cos , P&O, Princess Cruises, Holland America, Costa and Cunard.

    So when you book on a Cunard ship you are only sailing on “the Brand” the ships is owned by Carnival and manned and run by them,  they are no more a Cunarder than the Cooks Strait Ferries.  at least there all the crew can speak English and when they are entering the sounds etc all w/t doors are shut as a precaution.

    • EX Navy Greg

      I was surprised it “fell over”. I thought passenger ships had heeling tanks, crossflow pumps etc to ensure a ship stays on an even keel in this type of situation. Fully agree with the points you raise.

      • ConwayCaptain

        Ex Navy Greg

        When a ship takes the ground she loses stability.  That is why when you dry dock a ship you have to go in with your tanks completely or full.  If partly full you have free surface in the tanks which reduces your initial stability for a start.  As the water is pumped out you loses boyancy so your centre of buoyancy changes and thus affects your stability.  You do not go in with excessive trim as you then have a long period before the ship takes the blocks along her whole length and you are losing stability all the time.

        The CC would have had excessive free surface with the water in the hull from the gash plus she would have taken the ground and lost stability.  Then with very uneven support along the bottom would have top[pled. 

        I have heard of s ahip that went indo DD and the engineers pumped ballast or fuel without telling the Mate.  He didnt check the tanks before flooding the DD.

        She came off the blocks forward at first and as the tanks had been interferred with she didnt have the stability the Mate thought shebhad and she took a list andnslipped off the blocks.

      • ConwayCaptain

        Ex Navy Greg

        When a ship takes the ground she loses stability.  That is why when you dry dock a ship you have to go in with your tanks completely or full.  If partly full you have free surface in the tanks which reduces your initial stability for a start.  As the water is pumped out you loses boyancy so your centre of buoyancy changes and thus affects your stability.  You do not go in with excessive trim as you then have a long period before the ship takes the blocks along her whole length and you are losing stability all the time.

        The CC would have had excessive free surface with the water in the hull from the gash plus she would have taken the ground and lost stability.  Then with very uneven support along the bottom would have top[pled. 

        I have heard of s ahip that went indo DD and the engineers pumped ballast or fuel without telling the Mate.  He didnt check the tanks before flooding the DD.

        She came off the blocks forward at first and as the tanks had been interferred with she didnt have the stability the Mate thought shebhad and she took a list andnslipped off the blocks.

      • EX Navy Greg

        Yes it was always interesting watching the navy DD the tanker HMNZS Endeavour. They pretty much vacuumed out the cargo and ballast tanks before going in.

    • Gazzaw

      P&O, Cunard, Costa, Princess, Holland America, Seabourn, Carnival , P&O Australia & AIDA all belong to the Carnival Group. Only P&O, Cunard & Holland America have retained any of their British or Dutch character, the remainder are totally homogeonous.   

      • ConwayCaptain

        Gazzaw

        There is no way I would go for a cruise on one of these behemoths,  They scare the shit out of me.

        Insurers and salvors are now raising questions about Mega ships in general, box boats, pax, tankers and bulkers.

        There is not the salvage capability in the world to salvage one of these ships. Just think what would happen is a 15ooo TEU ship went aground badly off S’pore.  The Starits would be shut for how long?????

        Also is there the insurance capacity to pay for the salvage + clean up+cargo/pax claims if one of these hits the bricks, blows up, sinks.

        One of the new Doce Vale 350,000 tonne Bulkers has loaded her 1st cargo and had hull fracrtures.  She was built in the PRC by the way.

        Maerk are building 18+ 18,000 TEU box boats.  How much is the cargo worth???  10,000 loded boxes worth US$10,000 each.  Ship worth US$150 million + clean up costs and wreck removal costs US$1bn

        The Torrey Canyon and the Amoco Cadiz were both commanded by Italians!!!! and look at the pollution they caused + the Exxon Valdez.

      • Quintin Hogg

        CC,
        Are you talking about the “Berge Everest”?
        That is a huge ship.
        As you say they are getting too big.

      • EX Navy Greg

        Vale Beijing I think

      • ConwayCaptain

        Quintin

        Yes I am.

        If you remember the Derbyshire which was around 200,000 tonnes if I remember right.

        She was lost in a Typhoon and apparently a storage area hatch forward was open and water flooded in and she went down.  Now this was the Kowloon Bridge class of 5 bulkers and they all had weak points just forward of the bridge as the box girder did not continue on tyhrough the ER bulkhead.

        These ships ride so low in the water that excess water on deck can break the hatches in excessive weather.

        What people dont know is that many bulkers desappear during passage and are never found.  There is about 1 a month but these are never in the press.  A flash pax boat is far more news worthy

        When loading these ships they have to be loaded in a certain way and holds in a certain order otherwise stresses build in the hull which cannot be released so to speak until discharge.

        The ore has to be spread across the tank top not piled up and each load has too be spread across in layers.

        Anither thing that you can get with certain types of ores and bulk cargose is liquifaction!!!!!!  and as the vessle vibrates the water content comes out of the ore and hey presto we are back to free surface effect again.

      • Quintin Hogg

        CC,

        Taharoa Express is a local example of cargo shifting and the fun it can cause.

      • Gazzaw

        I tend to think that some cruiselines are starting to push the boundaries. Your technical thoughts on Royal Caribbean’s two new monsters carring 5000+ passengers and 2000+ crew. They must be engineering masterpieces but what could go wrong? Other lines have similar behemoths either in the planning or at the yards.

      • ConwayCaptain

        Gazzaw

        The thought of 7000 people on a pax vessel leaves me incredulous and shaking in my boots.

        One of thos in trouble God help them

        How would you mount a rescue for 7000 people in gthe middle of the oggin.

        Even the resources of the USN wouldmt be able to cope.

      • EX Navy Greg

        Agreed Captain, late last year the supermax ” Vinalines Queen” built 2005 capsized off Indonesia with a cargo of nickel ore.
        All 23 hands on board lost.

    • Zelda

      Conway Captain so right. shudder!

  • Quintin Hogg

    I suppose Gareth Hughes will be off to Italy to offer assistance in the removal of bunkers from the vessel.

    • ConwayCaptain

      Quintin

      What worries me about the new pollies coming in is that they have stuff a;ll world experience.  All been in NGOs or other non jobs and then come in as a polly.  This is happening across all parties not just here by o’seas as well.

    • Gazzaw

      ………..and Phil standing on the shoreline complete with shiny shovel (and a camera crew). Just in case.

    • Gazzaw

      There are two already in operation in the Caribbean. They are literally floating resorts as they are far too large to fit into some ports. Check out ‘Allure of the Seas’ on wikipedia.

      • ConwayCaptain

        Gazzaw

        YUK!!!!!!!!!  7000+ on board. Saw the Nat Geo doco on her building didnt reaklise how many she took.

        6000 Bloody Yank Tourists.

  • Hakim of Phut

    Whats a non job ?. Running a refugee camp in Africa ? . Times have changed, its not all about shovelling coal on steam engines anymore ( Norm Kirk).
    The CC Master would have had a lifetime at sea and yet he broke the cardinal rule of coming in too close to shore  for an open sea passage ( some say 300+m).
    Same goes for the Picton pilot who took the Russian cruise ship “between” the headland  and the light on the rock. 

    • ConwayCaptain

      Non jobs like Jacinta Ardern, Gareth Hughes etc etc.

      One of the best Foreign Secretaries the UK ever had was Aneurin Bevan and he was a miner!!!!

      I want to know why the report into the Mikhail Lermontov is embargoed for 50 years. Ponsford who did the report was Best man at the Pilots wedding and they were both Masons!!!.

      • EX Navy Greg

        I still don’t know if Capt Jamieson was ever charged with anything .Must be more to the story.

      • ConwayCaptain

        Jamieson was never charged and kept his Certificate, the reason being it was an UK cert and the UK would have had to run an enquiry to remove it or so I was told.

        The Daily Telegraph is reporting that Il Capitano went in close so the Head Waiter could salute his family who live on the island!!!!!

      • Hakim of Phut

        Bevin  was the leader of the Transport & General Workers Union( 1922-45). He was never a miner.
        UKs Cameron has spent his entire career  working for other politicians ( after Oxford) except for a short stint in a major PR firm. Is this the sort of ‘real world’ experience you are talking about ? or does it only apply to lefties. A recent national MP is very similar, going into politics at 18.

      • Super Guest

        @c2f7ddfdc3305202ca3c068a12343573:disqus: The prevalence of unskilled careerists in politics applies to both sides. But it is far worse on the left. Worst of all half of the career politicians aren’t even good at their jobs or are washed up old hacks. Labour would be far better off dumping talentless hacks like Goff and Mallard and replacing them with guys like Nash and Davis. Not to mention all the ugly spiteful women, they can go too. Get some politicians who at least try to look female.

         

      • kehua

        Aye but he was a Welshman, nuff said yacky da.

    • ConwayCaptain

      I am talking about all pollies of whatever party coming in with v little worldly experience.

  • Hakim of Phut

    I dont want to sound picky but Bevin wasnt Welsh either. He was born in Somerset and had a strong  west country accent ( pam ayres type )

    • Granny

      Not picky, just confused about modern british history.

      Aneurin BevAn was welsh,  son of a miner, but was never Foreign Secretary – he was Minister of Health, Labour and National Service. 

      Ernest BevIn was from Somerset and Minister of Labour and National Service (hence Bevin Boys in the pits in the War) and then Foreign Secretary.

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