Two cases involving bail

There are two cases involving bail in the news right now.

About the only thing they share in common is the Judge – David McNaughton

In the case of  Kim Dotcom the judge refused bail. He listened to the authorities and agreed with them and kept Kim DotCom behind bars, principally to prevent him absconding or re-offending.

David McNaughton is also the same Judge who ignored the authorities strong case to keep the killer of  Christie Marceau behind bars. Instead he let the man out who then went around and stabbed Christie Marceau to death.

Makes you wonder about this Judge’s priorities are and what he thinks is really important.

Threats on human life or wheeling and dealing on the internet?

 


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  • honcho

    To make matters worse, 3 months after the murder and despite the killers name being in the public domain and reported on since day nought, the courts have now granted this piece of shit name suppression. The crim cuddling culture of our justice system makes me sick.

    There are three criminals mentioned in the piece above, a copyright criminal (yet to face trial) and a murderer with the judge as his accomplice.

    • RedgeNZ

      Insane isnt it, send this little creep back to whatever 3rd world dump he came from. Once he has served his time here of course.

    • GPT

      You rather prove the reason for name suppression above with your comments of “piece of shit”.  At this stage he is an alleged “piece of shit” entitled to a fair trial.  With the SST running a campaign around the case, tainting the jury pool, it is little wonder that he has name suppression PENDING trial. 

      • Tom

        This is more to do with bailing a psyco nutbar who actually knifed a girl 11 times, versus a dude who facilitated the dowloading of copyrighted material on the net…

        Alleged? C’mon, this is as guilty as it gets… Oh and the other dude was covered in blood too…..

      • Stevo

        Grow up.

  • Hagar

    Judges should held accountable for their actions. That is what they are paid for, making the right decisions, if they can’t make the right decisions then they should be fired. Just like sports referees, if they cock up they go

  • tas

    Sack him!

    • Mr_Blobby

      How?

      • Tom

        With a big giant sack?
         

  • Hagar

    Just thought of it, with judges, three bad strikes (decisions) and out they go!!!

    • Catweasel321

      Sacking? To good for em. What they need is a damn good thrashing. When will NZ wake up to the fact that the Judges are the real criminals. Since when has a defendents rights been part of the justice system. The only true justice is bloggers justice.
      It all started going to the pack with those socialist Barons in 1215 and its been going down hill ever since.

  • Phar Lap

     So what can NZs expect from the judicial system,Justice?yeah right.

  • peterwn

    The judge had obviously learned his lesson when refusing bail for Kim Dotcom. Let us hope that the High Court revokes Kim’s bail or Judge McNaughton will be a very confused guy.

    • GPT

      It was EM bail.  High Ct upheld the decision to decline bail

  • Mr_Blobby

    This whole case smells of political interference.
     
    Our Government bending over for the US.
     
    They are now planning to appeal the Bail, remember he has not been charged with any crimes in NZ and he is not out on parole for previous convictions.  No potential charges that would exclude him from receiving bail in NZ.
     
    What is the threat to the NZ public and what is the public interest in keeping him behind bars.
     
    Prisoners in NZ get released early and are allowed to take day trips for a whole range of excuses.
     
    When was the last time they appealed a convicted anybody, out on parole being given bail for an offense committed whilst on parole, even when said scum then continue to offend.
     
    Who would give a shit, even if he did skip the country?
     
    No, the more I think about the Dot Com saga, the more uneasy I feel about it. Not only does Judge – David McNaughton have questions to answer the Government namely the PM should also front up and come clean also.
     
    Or do we have to wait for the next leak of US secrets, for the latest crimes committed by the US Government.
     
    This smells like rotten fish.

    • Sarrs

      God, it makes us look like dreadful sycophants to the rest of the world, doesn’t it? 

      America stretches out and uses our police force like a hand puppet. Jeez, we better get a free trade deal out of it. 

      • MrV

        But its not a ‘free’ trade deal, more like extending the tentacles of the highly litigative US legal system into NZ copyright laws and issues of technology patents and pharmaceutical pricing.

      • Mr_Blobby

        The conditions of the bail are also strange, no access to any technology, incase he re offends. Yet he has not been convicted of any offending and as his alleged offending was technology based, one would assume his defense will also be technology based. How can you properly defend yourself when you are isolated.
         
        I would be inclined not to extradite him on the basis of he will not get a fair trial or be allowed to defend himself.
         
        What are they so afraid of any possible economic damage he may or may not have done would be miniscule to the damage wrecked on the World by the Banksters in New York.
         
        What is our Government afraid of? US Attack drones dropping their ordinance on west Auckland.

  • Bunswalla

    It’s a tough one – everyone’s entitled to the presumption of innocence until they have a trial, but in many cases where you have a victim positively identifying the offender, the police should be able to insist on bail. In the Dotcom case he can’t technically re-offend since he hasn’t been convicted of anything, but in any case it’s a white-collar crime where nobody’s been physically harmed. This judge has got his prriorities all wrong. 

  • Greg M

    Pleased to report that the Herald has just broken the suppresion order online.Heh!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10788333

  • Euan Rt

    You would think that if the police have enough evidence to charge someone for a crime, then there is automatically enough evidence to hold someone without bail. Sure there will be occasions where they are wrong and compensation can be awarded to those victims, but I just can’t believe that justice is served in granting bail to someone who has been charged with a major crime. It is nuts.

    • Tom

      Oh and less innocent people get burgled/knifed/etc as a result than while the turd is on bail!
      If some people don’t like the idea, get them to have chat to Chistie’s parents.

  • kevin

    I know which of them I would rather have a s a neighbour… and it ain’t the murderer.

    • Hagar

      Another thought, if a judge grants bail, then the person must be bailed to the judges own home or the judge’s daughters home.

      • GPT

        So you are in favour of every single person who is arrested being imprisoned pending trial?  Perhaps you would prefer North Korea?

      • Tom

        GPT, nah just the nutbar kidnapper types…. 

  • GPT

    Yes two decisions is enough to make an informed opinion upon.

    Do you have the first bail decision?  In fairness it seems rather odd (although police could have appealed) and I would be interested to read it.

    Dotcom got EM bail.  The declinature of bail was upheld by the High Court as he was a flight risk – a specific consideration under the bail act.  If bail is declined a defendant can then apply for Electronically Monitored bail (which rather reduces the flight risk).  In that decision there is little sensible criticism that can be leveled.

    • Bunswalla

      Which is why I said it’s a tough one – people are entitled to the presumption of innocence. However some people don’t get bail, where they are legitimately considered a flight risk, where there is compelling evidence of their guilt, where the crime is of a violent or sexual nature and the risk of harm to victims and witnesses is present. It’s a juggling act, and often the side with the best lawyers wins.

      However the contrast between the two cases is quite stark. On one hand you have an alleged white-collar criminal with a family and pregnant wife, who hasn’t even been charged with a crime in this country and presumably has no criminal record here. His crime doesn’t involve violence and there are no victims to protect.

      On the other hand you have a person that has been charged with kidnap and assault on a young lady, and was subsequently bailed to an address 350m from his alleged victim. Who is then alleged to have killed.

      All WO stated was that it makes you wonder about the judge’s priorities and what he thinks is really important. Very legitimate questions, I would have thought.

      • Mr_Blobby

        The conditions of the bail are also strange, no access to any technology, incase he re offends. Yet he has not been convicted of any offending and as his alleged offending was technology based, one would assume his defense will also be technology based. How can you properly defend yourself when you are isolated.
         
        I would be inclined not to extradite him on the basis of he will not get a fair trial or be allowed to defend himself.
         
        What are they so afraid of any possible economic damage he may or may not have done would be miniscule to the damage wrecked on the World by the Banksters in New York.
         
        What is our Government afraid of? US Attack drones dropping their ordinance on west Auckland.

    • Tom

      So only if they are a flight risk, never mind the victim first time around just round the corner?

  • Don McKenzie

    Criminal Bar Association vice president John Anderson told Radio New Zealand this morning the changes being sought were `”over the top”.

    This guy and Peter Williams QC need a good thrashing to get some sense into their unrealistic and insensitive remarks over bail and commonsense or rather ”lack of ‘

  • Annonymous

    The criminal from these two articles linked was able to ask and get granted permission by the Crown to WHILE ON BAIL, go and “WALK THE STEPS THAT JESUS WALKED” in ISRAEL. Sickening legal system spits in the face of victims.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10603835

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10680963

  • Rockyr

    Much of the re-offending while on bail could be arrested by returning to the old time practice still current in most countries of requiring bonds from both the perpetrator and one or more sureties. If Dotcom  was bailed in the states he would have had to lodge about a million bucks with the court. In NZ all he has to do is promise not to leave, and if he does no-one is to blame.

    • phronesis

      Too obvious.

    • Mr_Blobby

      Hard to pay a bail bond when the Government has frozen all your bank accounts and seized all your assets.

  • HSV325

    Dotcom is fucked if he gets extradited to the US. He is already on a hiding to nothing with his defence preparation being hampered by his inability to use the means of communication that is used in the normal course of doing business including legal work. I hope he has a few mill stashed and does a houdini escape giving the yanks the single finger on the way. BTW he is great taste in cars!!

    • Tom

      Eww pink Caddie?

      • HSV325

        Phantom Drophead and weapons grade arsenal of AMG Mercs pretty cool in my books!!

    • Mr_Blobby

      Yes I think so to. There is more to this story, the US is scared of something and wants to bury it. I imagine in the US he will be locked up, like that boy who leaked to wikileaks, for a few years without charge. Why else would the response be so over the top.
       
      They must be wondering about the NZ Police busting in, like a TV movie completely over the top, to preserve evidence. Only to spend 35 Minutes breaking into a laundry chute. Epic Fail on every level. Still they got to act all Sweeny.
       
      Can’t wait for the movie.

      • Roscoe

        It is
        inconceivable that Anne Toolley could waste so much time and money meddling in
        this case – it is not our problem – if the USA/FBI/CIA want Mr Dotcom they
        should come and get him – we have no right to keep this man apprehended until
        he is proven guilty, which right now he has not been – God help us if he in
        turn lays a wrongful arrest charge against the New Zealand police who burst
        into his home like pirates, trashed his belongings and traumatised his family.
        And this in the country that gives name suppression to anyone at all regardless
        of their crime, allows vicious offenders to go free on bail and kill again,
        allows paedophiles to live by and even teach children – the Police and Corrections have made
        some really dreadful decisions and this one is certain to go down as one of the
        worst – they should stay away from it and leave Mr Dotcom to sort out his
        American legal problems.

      • Mr_Blobby

        Just a thought Mr Dotcom is probably not an American citizen, so once they get there hands on him, he could probably be detained indefinitely under there various patriot acts without charge.

  • D. Saltmarsh

    I saw this judge on TV the other night.  Typical mediocre ex-lawyer with no chin and white hair.  What a wanker!  Reminded me of Peter Williams and others of that ilk.

  • Shan

    I have my own story about that corrupt jack ass who calls himself a Judge
    I file a complaint with the Judicial Conduct Commission 6 months ago and still havent heard back
    form them – I could prove what he had done, there was nothing to investigate but he still
    has a job and I have heard nothing!

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