A threat to us all?

The first same-sex marriages in the state of New York have occurred. I dunno how we are going cope,  it’s the end of the world as we know it.

A threat to us all? Perhaps not:



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  • Scanner

    Quick contact the Historic Places Trust, they look after the “Stately Homos”

  • Yeah well, New York, perhaps the most Culturally Marxist state in the US outside perhaps of Kalifornia.

    Who cares if queers want to pretend so badly to be normal?

    Its not the point.

    • Kosh103

      I think it is you who needs to pretend to be normal these days.

      It is normal to be gay, it is abnormal to be homophobic. Society has turned its back on your way of thinking and in decades to come your way of thinking will be looked upon with disgust and likened to the supporters of slavery.

      And guess what else – the world will be a better place when your kind are gone.

      • Peter Wilson

        I’d have to agree with kosh here. Let’s face it, there are all sorts of “abnormal” activities, we now recognise as normal. Left-handedness, de facto relationships and 200k mortgages are now regarded as normal.

        Similarly, mental health patients, criminals coming out of prison are now expected to integrate into society and be “normalized.” I believe, as an enlightened society, we should now extend a similar helping hand to assist homosexuals “normalise” back into the mainstream. After all, their only “crime” has been not able to cope with heterosexual relationships, hardly a hanging offence?

      • LesleyNZ

        What a load of rubbish you talk Kosh. There is a big push worlswide to “normalise” being gay. Stop saying being gay is normal because it is not normal and it never has been until the likes of you try to make us believe being gay is normal. That is the reality. That does not mean to say that someone who is gay is not equal as a human being. Being “Gay” is not normal. If it were we would only have men – or women in the world – not both.

    • Guest

      Two old men want to spend the rest of their lives together? Whats the problem?

    • Guest

      I have a terrible feeling that the real reason why Redbaiter is so angry, is because he is jealous.

      Gays are capable of love. Redbaiter is not.

      • Gazzaw

        I wonder if Redbaiter watched ‘Deliverance’? Those good ole Southern boys.

    • Pete George

      RB has reacted as if he’s being forced into a shotgun wedding with a homosexual commie.

      Or it’s a day that ends in ‘ay”.

  • You miserable vile stinking little Orwellian commie POS.

    You label people as suffering from a completely make believe mental disease because they do not agree with ideas you cannot logically defend.

    Your kind are the vanguard troops for the stinking murdering cowards who set up regimes and kill off dissenters with gulags and extermination camps.

    And your vile rhetoric proves it well enough. Its not about queers, its about manipulation, and conformity of thought and speech and the crushing of dissent.

    Repugnant repulsive little commie turd.

    • titanuranus

      For someone that does not care RB , you seem more than a little defensive on the subject.

      •  You’re another dumbfuck graduate of the corrupt socialist school system who was being indoctrinated with Marxist crap when you should have been learning basic comprehension.

        My response to Kosh is not about queers getting married. It’s about the tyranny vile POS like he would impose if he had the power to do so.

      • Kosh103

        Oh redbaiter you do talk some crap.

        I can see you now, sitting in the hills in your cabin, shotgun across your lap, muttering “Damm gum’ment, damm commies”

        You need to take your tinfoil hat off and join the real world, before you hurt yourself.

      • Bunswalla

        Methinks the lady doth protest too much…

    • Guest

      I would like Whaleoil to debate with Redbaiter one day the proposition that “those who are least assured of their persuasions are the ones who most loudly criticize others for theirs.”

      • I think Redbaiter is just concerned that he actually enjoyed a little anal play…I mean he thinks he shouldn’t really…but damn that good!

    • Kosh103

      LMAO –  oh look the homophobic fucktard is all upset his kind are losing.

      Ahhh well, you keep spouting your lies and bullshit. It will speed up your demise.

      • motorizer

        “his kind?” that sound like reverse homophobic talk. now the boot is on the other foot….

      • Pukakidon

         Kosh….. still using that discriminating language of those intellectually challenged.

        You are no better than RB, he uses discriminate language to describe homosexual people that causes you to go into a hissy fit, and you use discriminate language like fucktard to describe homophobes.  You are as alike as two peas in a pod.

    • Guest

      I thought gay marriage/civil unions were decided on a state by state basis in the USA? How is this imposing marxism/communism when state each gets to decide, and not the Federal Government?

      • Mully

         That’s enough of your logic, thank you very much.

    •  red…i presume you know there is now a pill that cures the illness of race-hate…

      ..if it also cd possibly cure yr particular illness of raging homophobia..

      ..would you take that pill..?

      ..if not..why not…

      ..it would make you so much happier..

      ..and not the twisted bundle of hatreds you currently are..


      ..hang on..!..you need the race-hatred one anyway..eh..?

      ..from memory you aren’t too fond of ‘murries’…eh..?

      [email protected]

      •  Fuck of Ure, a commie parasite like you has the moral authority of Jack the Ripper.

      • Kosh103

        Wrong as usual RB, I believe you are the one with the morals of Jack the Ripper.

      • titanuranus

        And yet here you again RB commenting on an issue you claim not to care about.
        It`s not compulsory to marry one of the same sex RB , you can calm down and stop worrying, thats if you really want to.

  • James

    Well said Kosh….the bigots don’t like it up em! ( Pardon the pun)

  •  Yep, here we have a self professed “Libertarian” labelling people as insane because they have an opposing point of view and supporting calls for their extermination.

    Sounds much more like a follower of Pol Pot than Ayn Rand.

    • Kosh103

      Telling lies again to try and cover for your vile out of date bigoted views I see RB.

    • no -one wants you ‘exterminated’..there..oh red-angry-one..

      ..we just want you to take the pill..

      [email protected]

        How about you just take your pill as you want, and you leave others alone.

        Enforced medication of non believers- another commie strategy.

        Disgusting dirty little commie bludger.

      • Kosh103

        How about you take your own advice.

        Allow others to have the same rights as you and leave them alone.

        Keep your ill educated bigoted thoughts in your head, and let people just live.

    • jay cee

      you’re not a reinvented “thorn” are you? just because we are of the left does not mean we support communism or any of the evils they are or have perpetrated on the world,anymore than right wing means you support fascism,or at least i hope not.  

      •  Politically ignorant half educated moron.

        Fascism is the political partner of big brother Socialism.

        A small government Conservative sees them as equal evils.

        Study some real history.

      •  he is a pain..but not a ‘thorn’…

        ..and logic/history etc dosen’t work with red..

        ..(he just has this 100 word slogan-vocab..that he endlessly recycles..)

        ..ridicule is/works best…

        ..and yes..he is a fascist…

        ..but an old school one..

        ..one who is locked into some mid-1930’s mindset….

        [email protected]

      • motorizer

        to be left is to be marxist and to be that is to be socialist and to be that is to be global socialist and to be that is to be global communist. 

    •  is there really any/much difference between the two..?

      ..pol pot and ayn rand…?

        ..i mean..they were both ‘barking’….eh..?

      [email protected]

      •  The funny thing is Ure is that if there is anyone suffering from any kind of mental illness on this thread, it is you and your rank narcissism.

      • jay cee

        just as a matter of interest “redbaiter”i looked up “facism” on wikipedia down the bottom of a lengthy explanation it backs up my assertion that it is a political system of the right. but hey, what do i know? far better to be abusive than have a mature debate eh? 

  • Razorlips81

    Yes it is the end of the world that we once knew. It is disgusting and very wrong – end of story! I will neve ever accept gay marriage and will fight to prevent it! It is wrong!!!

    • titanuranus

      Oh my ,indeed the world is slowing to a standstill as we type on our computers , head for the hills, the hills on Mars that is, seeing as this planet is fucked beyond redemption.
      LoL ,I can hear Razor stomping his little trotter from here.

    • jay cee

      too late to shut the stable door my friend,or turn back the clock for that matter. you might want to pick a fight that you might possibly win

    • Kosh103

      And you and your bigoted kind will lose and go the way of the slave traders.

      • Rufus Hargreaves

         Hi Kosh.

        You do seem to like using the term “bigot” a lot today.  May I remind you that by all accepted definitions of the term, you too qualify. 

        As for homosexuality being “normal” – nature doesn’t think so.  Homosexuals in nature die and are forgotten.

        Now, if you mean it is being “normalised”, yes I agree with you.  Big difference though.

      • Kosh103

        Rufus, homosexuality is found in over 400 species on Earth.

        Homophobia is found in one.

        It is you your kind that is abnormal.

        Have a nice day.

      • Grumpy

        Kosh said;

        “Rufus, homosexuality is found in over 400 species on Earth. ”

        ….and so does a females new partner killing her young to other males.  So you excuse the horrific rate of child murder do you Kosh?

      • Rufus

         Kosh “homosexuality is found in over 400 species on Earth.”

        1. Source please.

        2. Baboons pack rape females.  By your logic, is that ok for humans?

        3. You agree that you too, as per definiton, are a bigot?

        4. In nature, survival is everything.  Homosexuals cannot breed, and so their genetic material will not be passed on and will not survive.

        You boast that you haven’t lost any battles yet Kosh.  However, if you remain a homosexual, you will never have a child of your own.  In order for you to leave a legacy, you must corrupt someone else’s child. 

        You lose.

    •  red…meet razor…

      ..who knows..?..eh..?

      you could endlessly rant at each other..

      ..and then in a state of heightened passions..

      ..fall into each others’ arms…eh..?

      ..would you like a pill for that too..?

      [email protected]

  • red said:..

    “..My response to Kosh is not about queers getting married. It’s about the
    tyranny vile POS like he would impose if he had the power to do so…”

    ..are you afraid you will be forced to don dresses..and hosiery..?

    ..’compulsory-anal’..as it were..?

    ..what exactly are you so scared of there red…?

    .(.aside from commies/gays..and murries…?

     ..btw..do you hate lezzies too..?

    ..or will you rise to/for the occaison ..for a bit of girl-on-girl action..?


    [email protected]

  • Razorlips81

    Say what you want I stand proud and firm! Just look at this messed up world, now there is a condition known as “sexual identity disoreder” unheard of in my day. Childern as young a 8 are having therapy and you are ok with this? Now the big question in Islam how are gays treated? Islam is comming our way to a town near you folks! 

    • Kosh103

      LMAO – ohhh dear, tin foil hat alert for sure.

    • “.. I stand proud and firm!..”..oo-err..!

      ..razor looks like one out of the box..eh..?

      ..pass the popcorn…!

      [email protected]

      • Razorlips81

        Maybe you do not undrestand pride, it seems a thing of the past.

      •  Well, you’ve got nothing to be proud of have you Ure?

        No ethical base and no morality.

        It’s why you committed the cowardly and criminal deed of robbing a chemist shop. No ethics.

        Held defenceless shop attendants at knife point and stole from them.

        Just like you steal from NZ taxpayers. Take money meant for the needy and spend it on yourself. Because you can. No ethics.

        Never had any, don’t have any now and never will have any.

        A psychopathic narcissist completely bereft of ethics.

        Nobody to be preaching here or anywhere.

  • Mully

    Well, shit. Now they’re going to want to marry horses or something. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to work?

    •  red said:..

      “..It’s why you committed the cowardly and criminal deed of robbing a chemist shop..”

      36 years ago red…

      ..whereas yr illnesses are current…


      [email protected]

  • Yep, but if they “love” the horse, its OK..  :)

    • Kosh103

      Says the person who is prob all in favour of hetro incest.

      • Grumpy

        Everyone, e4specially Redbaiter abhors hetero incest and would be first in line to administer the bullet.  We have yet to see you, despite many invitations, condemn the far higher prevalence of homo incest and pedophilia.

  • Wow… There’s no middle ground in this debate, is there? 

    My question to any proponents of gay marriage is this: Why do you want to join the institution that oppresses you? Marriage is a religious instrument that developed as part of a social control to ensure monogamous heterosexual relationships were the norm. At the time there was no contraception and no medicine to treat most sexually transmitted disease. Marriage minimised those effects. It then became a religious institution. And as we know, the texts of the world’s major religions all cast homosexuality as a sin (the three monotheistic ones anyway).

    Marriage, as an institution, has always said your sexual morals are wrong. And you want to join it? Marriage is a constraint and an oppression to people who enter it. Why not express your commitment and love in your own way? Marriage is surely not the most important issue. There is a civil union for the legal issues. I’d be focussing on allowing same sex couples to jointly adopt, or other forms of discrimination that still need to be stamped out. I just can’t really understand why everyone’s dying in a ditch over gay marriage.

    • Kosh103

      Actually marraige says none of those things.

      The bigots and homophobic fucktards do.

      Marraige is an ever evolving thing, despite the lies being told by the fucktards, and eventually marriage will change and encompas queers. It is unaviodable.

      And as for dying in the ditch, I can assure you I have no intention of doing so. Queers have won every battle we have taken on, and so too will we win this. Because when you are on the side of right, it always comes out in favour of you in the end.

      • Marriage says all of those things. For most of western history it has been a religious institution, derived from the same scriptures which call homosexuality a sin. I do not think it is ever-evolving. It has always been a contract binding a man and a woman together. 

        My whole point is that marriage was invented and exists still, by the “bigots and homophobic fucktards”. It seems to me that the homosexual lobby is pushing for gay marriage to piss off christians and conservatives, even though it will provide no actual change to gay couples’ lives. 

        It might be a cop-out response, but to me it would seem better to stick with the settled compromise for now at least rather than trying to push it further (in New Zealand). And as I said, there are other areas of focus such as adoption that need attention. 

      • One other thing, you spelled marriage wrongly. Twice. 

        You’re a teacher, right?

  • Peter Wilson

    Probably better for homosexuals to face up to their own confidence issues with the opposite sex, but, at the end of the day the world won’t fall apart if they do, or don’t get married.

    At least they have accepted that the nuclear family is at the core of a stable society, and they would like to be part of the solution, rather than the problem.

    So, some progress, at least.

    • Kosh103

      Confidance issues????

      Care to explain?

  • motorizer

    is this the phillip ure thread? my god why dont you just shut up and maybe make a few comments and leave it at that?! jeezus you make me want to stop reading. booooring.

  • Salacious T Crumb

    A painful admission, but I find myself in agreement with Phil & Kosh.

    As my psyc professor once said when discussing abnormal sexual practices, “the problem is not defining abnormal human sexual behaviour, it is defining what is normal”…

    My homo mates (their words) are more normal than some of the straight people I know who have wierd views on marriage and relationships.

  • Pharmachick

    I see this as a basic human rights issue. LGBT individuals should have all the same rights under the law as straight individuals. That includes legal marriage.

  • ” I see this as a basic human rights issue.”

    Best you visit an optician pronto.

    • Kosh103

      Wrong again. This is a rights issue, and you are on the wrong side of the argument.

      • I’m sorry, there is no wrong side of the argument. There are different views. You are just as bad as them by saying their views have no merit. I don’t know whether I support gay marriage, but this is a democracy and they have a right to believe that marriage should not extend to same sex couples! 

    • Pharmachick

      Redbaiter, how does sexual orientation alter one’s legal rights? If marriage was NOT a legal institution, but say a strictly religious state, then the church would be well within its rights to stick with their club’s charter and exclude some people. The minute it became codified in law, it needs to be equally applied/available to all the people to whom the law applies.

  • Razorlips81

    The gays already have Civil Union, but it is never, enough now they wish to destroy marriage! Live together I do not care just do not call it marriage, call it garriage or something. marriage must be reserved for a Man and a Woman.

    • Pharmachick

      Sorry Razorlips81, as soon marriage became a legal institution as opposed to strictly religious, the ability to exclude people to whom the law applies was lost. Thats the fundamental concept of equal under the law, on which our justice system is predicated. 

  • Always horrifies me to hear commies talking as if they care about “rights”.

    Your political kin killed off at least one hundred million citizens last century just because they didn’t bow down to their communist leaders.

    Queers already have exactly the same rights to marriage as heterosexuals.

    • Pharmachick

      Redbaiter, for a person that displays a confederate flag as their avatar best not to be talking about historical wrongs.

      •  @fef4dc9377a30ff67ea344d41ab1d88b:disqus

        That comment was directed at the odious little Red Kosh. I respect that fact that you are (almost uniquely as far as this the pro argument on this thread goes) trying to make a coherent argument.

      • Pharmachick

        Thanks Redbaiter. I really do believe what I’m saying. If marriage was still religious then LGBT people would be barking up the wrong tree and “club” can apply their rules as they see fit, and that means excluding some people. the problem as I see it is that Marriage is a legal institution, therefore anyone to whom the law applies has the right to expect equal treatment. Especially because a legal spouse has more rights than a non-legal spouse. However, NZ doesn’t have a constitution (despite Geoff Palmer’s best attempts) we end up going round and round until the Supreme Court makes a ruling (sigh, wish it was still the Privy Council, but thats a convo for another thread). At the risk of getting up your nose, I won’t take back the call about the Flag though –  really hate it, I’ve been in the deep South and the attitudes it stands for (there) are truly distressing.   

    • Kosh103

      My goodness you do like telling lies dont you, nasty homophobic bigot.

      • starboard

        You dirty poofter kosh…and they let you teach children ? Leave marriage out of your sordid dirty perverted lifestyle. Marriage aint for you and your lot. Please kosh , let me give you the number of a good Doctor who will fix you and cure your disease.

      • Kosh103

        My my starboard – you are still thinking that homosexuality is something to be cured??

        You really are out of touch with the real and modern world.

        It must eat you up inside knowing that your kind have lost and it is just a matter of time now before no one thinks like you anymore.

    • Since when has Pharmachick been a commie…Redbaiter you are trying my patience…

      I have never seen anyone so full of hate. I think I will pray for you.

      •  I did not call Pharmachick a commie. As I explained to her, the reference was to your good mate Kosh

        “I have never seen anyone so full of hate.”

        You speak the language of the left Whale. I do not hate anyone, and to suggest that this is what drives my opposition to gay marriage is to suggest that (like most on the left), you are light years from understanding the real argument.

  • @Pharmachick:disqus

    Marriage is the legal framework that supports and encourages heterosexual couples in their natural intent to breed.

    It does not exist to give gender confused individuals the illusion of normality.

    The photos that accompany this post illustrate well enough what a mockery of convention and tradition two queers getting hitched really is.

    As for the flag, if it didn’t “distress” liberals like you, I probably wouldn’t bother flying it.

    • Pharmachick

      Marriage as a legal institution was not enacted around procreation. It was originally enacted to preserve and build familial inter-generational wealth  (including women and children who were chattels). If a gay couple wants to get married and build wealth, more power to ’em. Liberals like me have gun licenses, believe in the death penalty and that NZ judges are too namby, think you should be able to celebrate whatever religion you want and that big government can shove off. We do however, like justice to be blind, the law to be applied equally and hate bigotry with a passion that drives us to comment on blogs… whether that be bigotry of the LGBT type or of the Jim Crow type.   

      •  It isn’t bigotry, and the more you take that tack, the more you will lose the argument.

        Man, it seems that name calling is all the left ever have in response to any argument these days. Racist. Sexist. Bigot. Homophobe.

        I guess that’s all you have when you make decisions based on “feelings” rather than logic and reason.

      • Pharmachick

        =D so you admit to flying the confederate flag to wind people up but when called on it (and the Jim Crow laws for which that flag is a symbol [among other things] are the very definition of bigotry) I’m name calling?

        Also, you didn’t respond to my [factually correct] statement that marriage laws were not enacted around procreation, but around inter-generational wealth building. I am making an argument about marriage and legal “rights” not subjective feelings about LGBT people.

        I get that we’re not going to agree on this one though so maybe we call it a draw – I keep hanging out here and you’ll probably eventually find out that my politics are usually more to the right than National… we’ll probably end up on the same side of an argument one of these days.

    • Kosh103

      So those who marry, but dont ever want kids…. are they unnatural in your eyes?

    •  red calls mr oil a ‘leftie’..

      ..both brilliant..!..and hilarious..

      [email protected]

      • jay cee

        yep now i’ve heard it all,again.

  • Anyway, all this is just kite flying by Farrar and Whale for the little creep John “never had a principle I wasn’t prepared to compromise on” Key.

    • titanuranus

      Congratulations  on your fantastic impression of a jibbering idiot, is there anyone you have missed calling a commie/liberal  for not agreeing with your spittle flecked foaming diatribes?

      • Salacious T Crumb

         What impression? Is as does.

      • Travdog

        ” spittle flecked foaming diatribes”

        bloody hell, make a man choke on his can of Tui!

      •  That’s rich coming from some sick obsessive deviant who is constantly instructing every one what to do with their anus.

      • titanuranus

        LoL Red,its the name of a ship, funny how the only person here that is being baited is you.

      • starboard

        arent you late for your homo key party with kosh , Ure, et al ?

  • “my politics are usually more to the right than National”

    National are only a few degrees to the right of Labour on a NZ political spectrum that extends all the way from extreme left to far left.

    Saying you’re to the right of that bunch of bleeding heart liberal commie sellouts is no qualification.

    I despise the current bunch of occupants, for caving in on almost every principle that once made the Nats a great party.

    A bunch of despicable losers and unprincipled compromisers who stand for nothing and have sold this country down the drain, I heartily detest almost every one of them.

    • Kosh103

      I suspect your politics are so far to the right you would have been joining in the awful happenings in NAZI Germany with great glee and gusto had you been around then.

      •  Politically ignorant child. So thick and uneducated you don’t have the faintest clue what small government Conservatives want.

        Adolf Hitler’s National Socialist Party was your big powerful government kin, and with the sentiments you have displayed on this thread about your political opponents dying off, you would have been right at home in their ranks.

      • Kosh103

        As usual RB you are too thick to get the message.

        I said you would be getting stuck in with them. You share many of their quailties.  

    •  are you a rand fan-boy there..red..?

      [email protected]

  • nasska

    At the risk of associating ‘beds’ & ‘fellows’ I would point out that Conservatives have more in common with Libertarians than Fascists.  Totalitarians & true Fascists are all about compulsion &  giving more power to the state.

    Just like Labour & the Greens. 

  • Grumpy

    Can’t see much difference between kosh and red baited. Homo/heterophobic, what’s the difference?

    I do find kosh’s continual pigeon holing of those with other viewsas homophobic fucktards counterproductive, just a bit more so than red’s claims of “common”.

    • Grumpy
    • Kosh103

      Oh grumpy, are you telling lies as well.

      In order to be on the same level as you are RB I would have to want to deny you your rights based on your sexuality, consider your sexaulity abnormal and disgusting . Which I dont.

      I consider you and your views disgusting, and it has nothing to do with your sexuality fucktard.

      • Super_Guest

        Why do you care that he considers you disgusting? My “meh” position on this non-issue goes both ways. Gays need to be less militant about achieving their goals.

      • Kosh103

        SG, allowing the homophobic fucktards to spread their lies is not acceptable. Nor is just lying down and taking it.

        I will be oh so glad when the day comes that this sort of conversation never happens in NZ because all are considered equal, with the same rights and people like RB and grumpy are but relics of the past.

      • Grumpy

        OK Kosh, How about those whose “sexuality”consistst of fiddling with children, are in “love”with their sister?  Have a deep relationship with thier neighbour’s pig????

        You think that these whateverphobic fucktards should just let themk get on with it and marry the pig?

    • Grumpy

      I take it all back.  Redbaiter is far more sensitive and considrate than Kosh.

      Kosh, your prejudices just give poofs a bad name.

      • Kosh103

        Oh Grumpy, I am happy to be prejudice against homophobic fucktard haters. Oh so happy.

  • Johnboy

     Well that stirred up a hornets nest.

    Still I suspect that none of the alternative folks shown will be reproducing themselves so it hardly seems like much of a problem!

    • Grumpy

      Exactly, so they now want Other Peoples Kids so they can bring up the next wave of perverts.

  • Super_Guest

    Wait a minute, Obama is going to spend America into oblivion and people are pissing their pants about a few gay people getting married? Who cares? They’ve all the the big bad problems we do, overinflated welfare state, ridiculous levels of spending, and debt up the wazoo – compared to that gay marriage (or lack thereof) is about as important as an Ice-Cream tax. I hate it when I’m on the same side as our resident smarmy twat Kosh and the good-for-nothing beneficiary Phil, but in this case I am.

    • “I hate it when I’m on the same side as our resident smarmy twat Kosh and
      the good-for-nothing beneficiary Phil, but in this case I am.”

      That might give anyone with a modicum of intelligence cause for doubt.

      All the problems you list are linked, and its blind fools like you, who refuse to see the link, who have enabled the left, who are to blame for our present dire predicament.

      How do you think a commie thug like Obama got elected to the Presidency of the most free country on earth?

      Wake the fuck up moron.

      • Grumpy

        I think calling Kosh a twat just gives him delusions of grandeur……….

      • Kosh103

        If you think the US is the most free country on Earth, then you have more problems than I thought.

  • Urban Redneck

    The homosexual agenda includes the destruction of marriage, destruction of sexual morality and the criminalization of opposing views through “hate speech” legislation. Traditional marriage between one man and one woman is the kernel of any healthy, functional civilization. Homosexual marriage is an exercise in vanity, narcissism and is a furtherance to the destruction of one of the key bulwarks a society has to prevent civilization exhaustion and eventual collapse.

    From The Gay Report (1979), one of the most comprehensive and candid studies into the “gay” lifestyle – published by two homosexual researchers Karla Jay & Allen Young:

    Around 99% of homosexual males engage
    in oral sex;
    91% engage in anal sex;
    82% engage in “rimming”, touching the anus
    of one’s partner with one’s tongue and inserting the tongue into the anus;
    22% engage in “fisting”, inserting one’s fist into the rectum of
    the partner; 23% engage in “golden
    showers”, urinating on each other; 4% engage in “scat”, the eating of feces,
    and in “mud rolling”, rolling on the floor where feces have been deposited.

     . . . and from the New England Journal Of Medicine:

    “the average active homosexual male
    ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year (largely from rimming),
    and that the number of sexual partners averages nearly 100. Homosexual persons,
    per year, on average fellated 106 different men, swallowed 50 of their seminal
    ejaculations, and had 72 penile penetrations of the anus.”Such facts are routinely discussed in medical journals and homosexual niche media. Homosexual activists DON’T WANT TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE, they seek to destroy it, and along with it, unintentionally, our civilization. Again, using the words of the homosexual vanguard, themselves:

    “We have to abolish and reform the institution of marriage . . . we must understand what we are attempting is a revolution, not a public relations movement” – Gloria Steinem

    • Kosh103

      Hey UR –  you do know that the hetro population engages in every single one of those acts as well right.

      Get a clue you homophobic idiot.

      Oh and as for the moral argument – yeaaa you lost that centries ago in regards to marriage.

      • Travdog

        As a good mate once told me, “up the bum = no babies!”

      • starboard

        wrong kosh…I dont go around sticking my fist up my wifes arse…rimming it…etc etc..you lot really are the lowest of the low.

      • Grumpy

        So how do you compare against the above Kosh, bearing in mind that teaching our young and impressionable probably cramps your style a bit – or not.

      • Whalehunter

        The activities of your kind Kosh have no place in the sanctity of marriage.  Why not make up another name for your civil union and leave the word marriage alone at least? That wouldn’t be so hard would it, you have already stolen a whole lot of other words to describe your lifestyle eg. GAY which used to mean something nice once, now with MARRIAGE  you want to do the same thing to another word from our history. Fuck off.

      • Grumpy

        Only if they’re German.

      • Kosh103

        Hey whalehunter – guess what, we gays are never going away and it is a natural progression that we will end up with marraige open to everyone.

        Wow, that must really kill you he fucktard.

      • Kosh103

        Hey starboard, I see you didnt deny doing any of the other stuff.

        Oh and I dont think you represent every single straight person on earth either. So take your moral standing and shove it up your…………..

      • Lulu

        I have just read this thread so my comment falls out of synch but here goes.
        Kosh103 why do gays want to enjoy the symbolism straights have with their marriage institution? You can have all of the legal rights straights have (admitedly with some exceptions around adoption) so that can’t be the reason.
        Why don’t you figure out your own gay “relationship for life” status. I will respect it and won’t try and make it available for hetros.
        And while I am about it, haven’t you got something more important than wanting to be like hetros to be angry about?

    • titanuranus

      Jeepers  Urb, you did not have to post your bedtime reading for us.

      • Grumpy

        Lovely people really, just ask Kosh.

    • Grumpy

      Always wondered why they lump lezzies in with the poofs.  It’s just to make the poofs more acceptable.

      i have no problem with lesbians at all, at least they indulge in wholesome mainstrean healthy practices – not like to revolting activities of the poof brigade, so accurately displayed by Johnboy.

      • Kosh103

        LMAO, ahhhh you 2 faced twit.

        You are ok with gays as long as its 2 girls and you get to flog your log at the  thought of it.

        What a pathetic loser you are.

    • Grumpy

      Labour will probably have teaching of these methods as compulsory at primary school.

  • Super_Guest

    @Urban Redneck

    Gloria Steinem is a feminazi twat, a cheerleader who read the SCUM manifesto one too many times and thinks she can change the world. I have exactly 0 time for her, but how is she relevant? She’s coming from a feminazi, man-hating position, not a gay rights position. She failed, and her kind will always fail because they’re the true 1%, But at the end of the day you have nothing to be afraid of unless you suddenly start ass-fucking other men. So, if you’re so scared of benders getting hitched, just don’t marry one and your hole will remain intact.

  • Urban Redneck

    When the traditional family is destroyed, it’s game over for small, limited government as the clarion call for more government and bigger government to fix the malaise created will never abate . . . more government, more debt, more dysfunction. As I keep saying ad nauseam, homosexual activists don’t want the institution of marriage – they want it delegitimized, then redefined. Why is this premise so hard for the soft left / liberal / progressive Right to understand, when I could quote the words of homosexual activists all day if I wanted to ? The debasement and defenestration of traditional marriage has been going on for about 50 years, orchestrated by a progressive intelligentsia hell bent of the re-engineering of society.

    In other news:


  • George

    LGBTG You can go spend all you like on a wedding ceremony, it’s still not a marriage.  As long as your backside points to the floor it won’t be one.  A few will think its normal, a few more will pay lip service to it being normal, the rest will be mostley polite but still consider you bent.

    • Kosh103

      Awwwww, poor thing. Must upset you to know that views like yours are dying.

  • BR

    Most child molesters are homosexuals. Most child molestation are cases of adult men molesting under age boys.

    There is a pedophile lobby group based in the US called NAMBLA. It does not stand for North American Man Girl Love Association, nor does it stand for North American Man Child Love Association. It stands for North American Man BOY Love Association.

    Any male who is sexually attracted to another male is most certainly a homosexual, regardless of age.

    NAMBLA are in favour of homosexual “marriage”. Once the homosexual “marriage” lobbyists are ultimately successful in their campaign, the rights of these “married” homosexual couples to adopt children will occupy their undivided attention. When they achieve that (and there is no reason to believe that they won’t), the chances of a child being adopted into a household comprising a ‘married” couple or pederasts will have increased significantly.


    • Grumpy

      Already has, see the Austrailian poofs on a charge in the US – with NZ connections.  Know them Kosh????

    • Kosh103

      Oh dear, I see the pedo lies have started.

      It was to be expected.

      • Evening kosh, flying the flag again?

      • Kosh103

        You betcha Ben. Cant let the fucktards get away with their lies.

      • BR

        When I was young and went to school, there were certain teachers that couldn’t keep their hands to themselves.

        Homosexuals, every one of them.



      • It is well known to most except the utterly dim that pedophiles are generally heterosexual. 

        The Scout Leader I dobbed in was married with kids…another leader who I ran off out of the district was an inveterate rooter of girls in Venturers but enjoyed playing with the boys in Scouts….both hetero, both scum, hope they died horribly.

      • Kosh103

        Hey, BR,  Were any married?

      • Grumpy

        Whale, a while ago you ran a sob story from a woman whose father found true love with a man, so should be able to get married. According to the logic of your post here, he was hetero all the time…..

  • titanuranus

    Hey RB,Grumpy and Starboard et al, how about tagging yourselves in this pic?


    Be honest ,its a little hard to tell you apart.

    • Grumpy

      3rd from left, bottom row…….and you?

  • BR

    “It is well known to most
    except the utterly dim that pedophiles are generally heterosexual. 

    The Scout Leader I dobbed in was married with kids…another leader
    who I ran off out of the district was an inveterate rooter of girls in
    Venturers but enjoyed playing with the boys in Scouts….both hetero,
    both scum, hope they died horribly.”

    Most child molesters are adult males who interfere with underage boys. That is both homosexuality and pedophilia. The scout leader is bi-sexual, not heterosexual. Heterosexuals are people who are attracted to the opposite sex only. Heterosexual kiddie fiddlers only fiddle with children of the opposite sex, and there are less of them than there are those who interfere with children of the same sex.

    In any case, even if what you say is correct, homosexual “marriage” will eventually lead to the adoption of children by “married” homosexuals. A pair of pedophiles will be able to get “married” and  adopt children. A horrific scenario, and for what? Just so homosexuals can act out their fantasy of normality?


    • Kosh103

      You have a rather sick and twisted view of homosexuality.

      Experts tell us that pedophilia has very little to do with sexuality. But then idiots such as yourself refuse to accpet this as it wipes away your nasty little lies. Even when given an example of a hetro pedo, you say “oh he had to be Bi, couldnt be straight”.

      And if you want horrific scenarios, just look at the child abuse stats in NZ. Never hear of a child who is being raised in a gay household being beaten or sexually abused, do ya.

      Your lies will not prevent good and proper progress. No child being raised by a gay family is ever unwanted. Can you say the same about every child in a hetro environment?

      • Rufus

         Hi Kosh.

        “homosexuality is found in over 400 species on Earth.”

        1. Source please.

        2. Baboons pack rape females.  Some animals practice necrophilia.  By your logic, is that ok for humans?

        3. You agree that you too, as per definiton, are a bigot?

        4. In nature, survival is everything.  Homosexuals cannot breed, and
        so their genetic material will not be passed on and will not survive.

        You boast that you haven’t lost any battles yet Kosh.  However, if
        you remain a homosexual, you will never have a child of your own.  In
        order for you to leave a legacy, you must corrupt someone else’s child. 

        You lose.

      • Rufus

         Kosh – you keep going on about this being a “rights issue” and that you’r eon the side of “good” (shared with Whaleoil, which I find quite amusing).

        Please tell me what rights or yours are being denied.

        Certainly not the right to be married (though where on earth you got the idea that was a human “right” is beyond me).

        1. you have the same right to get married and have children as me.

        2. you do not choose to use that right.

        3. what you want is not “marriage”, but something else.  You want special treatment for a small but militant and shrill minority.

        3. you want to “marry” a man – something outside the historical, traditional, common/universal, & legal definition.

        4. you want to change the legal definition of “marriage” to accommodate your relationship

        5. in the process, you will change and debase all the past and current marriages that exist.

        6. if anyone is impinging on another’s rights – it is you.  You will deny the right to a marriage AS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN UNDERSTOOD

        7. if you ever succeed in getting the legal definition changed, you will still not have a “marriage” as it has always been defined and used.


        You have lost before you even start.


      • BR

        “You have a rather sick and twisted view of homosexuality.”

        Homosexuality is a sickness.

        “Experts tell us that pedophilia has very little to do with sexuality”

        What experts? Who’s “us”?

        “Even when given an example of a hetro pedo, you say “oh he had to be Bi,
        couldnt be straight”.”

        If he molests boys, he ain’t heterosexual.

        “Never hear of a child who is being raised in a gay household being
        beaten or sexually abused, do ya.”

        At present there is no legal right for homosexual “couples” to adopt children. Long may that continue. Such a right would allow all sorts of deviants and perverts to bring children into their house of horrors, all under the umbrella of homosexual “marriage”.

        When I was young and went to school, there were certain teachers that would hurt the kids in any way they could. They were the same teachers who couldn’t keep their hands off the boys.

        “No child being raised by a gay family is ever unwanted”

        Yes, but what do you want them for?


  • motorizer

    the total goal of communism is to destroy the nuclear family, is it not? i feel for these gay cunts old and young… i really do. but the big picture is that politically its not the “right” thing. its a “left” thing.

    are there many right wing fags?

    • Grumpy

      Correct, you can tell that from kosh,s other ravings, mainly anti US and Irael.
      Strange bedfellows, kosh and Iran, Hamas, Taliban etc.

      • Kosh103

        LMAO what a load of shit. Anti US. God you talk some crap.

        Telling the truth makes someone anti US?? Fuck you have some problems grumpy.

      • Kosh103

        LMAO more bullshit I see you idiot.

        Christ everytime you open your gob more nonsense pours out.

    • Kosh103

      NZs Att. Gnrl is gay.

  • Lulu

    Kosh103 I can’t find where you address the question asked several times in several different ways on this thread. Why do you want to be able to be married in the traditional sense of “partner for life with all it entails” between two heterosexuals. You’re not heterosexual. Legally you can have all of the trappings and society is accepting. FFS there are many openly gay people in the public domain living in stable relationships with same sex partners. (There is not enough space here to name just the ones I can think of off the top of my head it is so commonplace).  If you want a “partner for life” label you can dream one up. What is missing?

    • Kosh103

      Marriage by any other name is not marriage.

      It is all about equality and human rights.

      • Lulu

        Marriage is the name for the significant partnership for life that heterosexuals enter into. Gays are equally free to enter into a significant partnership for life. Calling that status between gays marriage is nonsense and is not a human rights issue. You have acquired the right to legally form a partnership for life. The real battle is over.  If you were somehow able to call a relationship between gays marriage that wouldn’t suddenly make the other themes on this thread go away.
        I can see there might be a problem with getting everyone to view homosexual activity as normal. I am happy to live next door to you and work next door to you. I accept your right to live the way you wish and do whatever you want in the privacy of your own home the same as I respect heterosexuals’ right  to do whatever they do in private. However, there is nothing you can say that will make me suddenly think homosexual activity is normal. Maybe you just have to accept that and get on with your life.
        You should also be clear that there is nothing you can say that will make me think that my failure to regard homosexual activity as normal is somehow a matter of equality and human rights. That is just bullshit.

      • Kosh103

        Homosexuality is quite normal lulu. It has been with us since the dawn of our species.

        And as for marriage – it is a socal construct and as such we can make it whatever we like.

    • Pharmachick

      see my posts yesterday, I may have done it for him (inadvertently) … In summary:

      Originally enacted around the ideas of preservation/conservation/building of intergenerational wealth, Marriage is now a legal condition/institution describing partnership and it’s legal privileges and responsibilities. 

      As an Independent State (constitutional monarchy government), Kiwis expect the law to be applied equally to the citizenry, in all cases. “Equal under the law” is what our justice system is predicated upon. Unless you wish to make an argument that “all men are *NOT* created equal …

      Therefore, since Marriage in NZ is a legal construct, a gay couple ought to be able to get Married with the full legal protection (rights and responsibilities) of the NZ government.  Civil union is not “equal under the law” (one example: adoption is available for Married couples but not for civil unions –> not equal under the law).

      Again, if “marriage” was still strictly a moral or religious movement/state/designation this would not be an issue – the “club” that makes the rules gets to enforce them. In the former case, the religious would have every right to enforce the rules of their “club”. HOWEVER, this argument lives and dies by the legal definition … once “Marriage” became a legal thing the government legislates  (e.g. anyone got a Marriage license lately? I did in the last 10 years and it is **definitely** a legal process at the courthouse)   then the right to “exclude” sections of the community you disagree with was lost. This is what the human rights argument has always been about: equal under the law.

      • Lulu

        Sorry Pharmachick I have been at work, I missed your reply and I have posted in reply to Kosh103.
        I get the argument. While that applies to marriage in the legal contract sense it doesn’t resolve my perspective that the legal condition was created around the circumstances of heterosexuals living together and it is the original intent that I am defending. I would be happy for the same legal conditions to be granted to gays but called something else. Anything else frankly.  I can assure Kosh103 that I wouldn’t then seek to have their label applied to heterosexuals.

  • Salacious T Crumb

    The bullshit being posted here about paedophiles being homosexual is breathtaking.

    You can make no such distinction on the basis of whether the victim is a boy or girl. Sexual abuse of a child is just that, and the perpetrators sexual orientation is seldom, if ever a contributing factor.

    It disgusts me that people would attempt to try and twist this to suit their own argument.

    • Grumpy

      Apologise and try to make black white all you like, but a man who interferes with other males (whatever the age) is homosexual.


      • Pharmachick

        A pedophile is a pedophile. I do not think they are the majority, but I will admit that high profile cases involving priests and boys over the last 25 years certainly may have given you that impression … However, just today we see this:

        How about you think about this (and I try not to, but for the sake of this discussion …) pre-pubsecent boys and girls are very similar visually, since secondary sexual characteristics (breasts, hips, pubic hair, shoulders) haven’t developed. 

        It is disgusting, immoral and evil to prey on children. Period. 

        Homosexuality is “men preferring men” (or women preferring women, actually; but we tend to call that lesbianism). It has *nothing* to do with children. 

        There are any number of abhorrent straw men you can now raise: scoutmasters, priests and NAMBLA… to which I say what about “men” marrying 13 year old girls (a la Jerry Lee Lewis*)  or “men” procreating with their sisters? All of them are illegal for a reason, including NAMBLA’s preferred lifestyle. 

        Being homosexual is NOT illegal – again for a reason.  

        (*and to compound it she was his 1st cousin).  

      • Kosh103

        Simple minded fool.

    • Kosh103

      You will find that people like grump and RB etc… will tell any number of disgusting twisted lies in order to push their homophobic hate message.

      No matter how many facts you put in front of them to show them how wrong they are, they will keep on and on with the hate filled lies because that is who they are. Hate filled homophobic fucktards.

      And the best way to really piss that sort of person off is to be an out and proud queer.  

      • Pharmachick

        being out and proud is a great thing =D… 

        Also, the frustration and anger borne from years of experiencing disgusting behavior and attitudes are 200% understandable.

        My only point of divergence is that I prefer a smack down to come from logic and facts (respectfully) rather than the exact same vitriol one has been the victim of.   

        And I’m married to a wonderful man and we’re just now thinking about having kids (the old fashioned way) ;-) 

  • Kosh103

    I have read thorugh rufus and BR’s little hoimophobic hate filled rants and all I have to say to them is, I am right and your kinds are dying out. You are no better that supporters of slavery and racism, and that is how you will be remembered.

    As scum.

    • Super_Guest

      Calm down, child. If you think that owning another human being, forcing them to work, and paying them nothing is as bad as having a dim view of gay marriage then you need to take a couple deep breaths and pull your head in because you’re a complete “fucktard” as you like to call people.

      Also, perhaps answer Rufus’s question about the 400 species of animals who engage in homosexual behaviour, simply out of my own curiosity as to your source. Sounds like misinformation to me, mainly because I cannot imagine anyone paying someone to research the matter – because it’s completely pointless in every context other than to be used in rebutting homophobes (something which you are supremely terrible at, despite the horrible things people in this thread have been saying, the gay rights movement better pray it’s spokesman is a little better than Kosh, who’s way too over-emotional and lacking in articulation and argumentative ability).

      • Pharmachick

        here y’are the easiest one to find is:

        I didn’t actually count the numbers, so I don’t know if it is 400 – Kosh103 may have been a tad exaggerated there –  although Wikipedia is by no means the authority on most things (but in my experience it will do for a first-line fisking of facts in broad strokes, if not always carrying through to a deeper examination or finer points).

        FWIW agree that we need less of the “F**ktard” and more civil debate, and perhaps that includes less patronising too (“Calm down, Child”) it inflames those already tending towards hyperbole because they feel so strongly.

    • Rufus

      Kosh – your problem is that you have no way of dealing with dissenting views apart from spitting hate and bile at those people who dare hold them. 

      “Fucktard”, “homophobic”, and “bigot” are words used to shut down debate.

      By all you ranting and raving, your spitting and screaming, you show yourself to be just as bigoted as those you aim your crude put-down at.

      Hissy fits and name calling are not the way to engender respect or encourage others to come around to your views.

      Not a very grown-up way to engage in debate. 

      • Kosh103

        Your view is far from “dissenting” if it was then there would not be a problem. The problem is your view is supported by homophobic outdated ideas.

        And if you think your marriage in the TRUE SENSE OF THE WORD is anything other than what we oursevles decide it to be as a country, then that is your issue to deal with, not mine.

    • Rufus

      BTW, you still haven’t tried to engage with any of my questions. 

      1. What rights of yours are being denied you?

      2. How do you propose to obtain “marriage” when you are seeking to change “marriage” into something unrecognisable?

      3. How do you propose to do all this without STAMPING ON MY RIGHT TO BE MARRIED IN THE TRUE SENSE OF THE WORD? 

    • Rufus

      Kosh –

      Show me how I have shown myself to be homophobic (whatever that means).

      Show me how I have shown myself to be hate-filled. 

      You’re the one screaming and hissing and spitting and calling people names.

      Can anyone hold a different view to yours and not be “homophobic” or “hate-filled”? 

      I thought not.

    • Rufus

      Kosh, you just said this:”You will find that people like grump and RB etc… will tell any number of disgusting twisted lies in order to push their homophobic hate message. No matter how many facts you put in front of them to show them how wrong they are, they will keep on and on with the hate filled lies because that is who they are. Hate filled homophobic fucktards. “What facts have you put before us to prove your case Kosh?Name calling, spitting at people, and stamping your feet are not “facts”.  Stating something and repeating it ad nauseum too, is not a “fact”.


    I’ll take notice of these people when they stop hiding behind the hi-jacked word “gay” and start using “homosexual”. 


    Kosh103 said:  Allow others to have the same rights as you and leave them alone.

    KOSH: there are some “rights” you don’t have, and pretending to be normal is one of them.

    • Kosh103

      Oh look another homophobe. You are the one pretending to be normal, where as I already am.

      • Rufus

         Kosh – you have no option but to resort to name calling and stamping your feet.

        It’s a little pathetic.

        I reckon Cam keeps you around to boost his site’s visitor numbers. 

        It’s certainly not for insightful comments or logical arguments.

        Keep up this attitude and you will be a bitter, spiteful old man before you know it, and die angry at the world.

        Good luck.

      • Agent BallSack

        Stop with the “I’m normal” shit dude. We’re all humans, but I suppose unless you thrash us with your beliefs everyday you expect we’ll forget. What makes you more special than the rest of us Kosh? Your love for cock or your overriding respect of humanity? Do tell please.

      • Kosh103

        Hey for the record rufus –  on this issue cam and I are in agreement.

      • Rufus

        Shame on Cam. 

        So what if you’re in agreement?  To take that as proof that you’re right and I’m wrong is a logical fallacy.

        You still refuse to engage with any of my questions – you’re simply going with your emotion and your “zeal”.

  • Peter Wilson

    Hard to imagine this debate ever heading in the one direction. Both sides should be ashamed of themselves.

    Yes there are genuine homophobes out there, and the worst part is, most of them profess themselves to be Christian. Surely a big part of being Christian is the ability to forgive others, and to have empathy. Homesexuals have suffered greatly over the years; just imagine what it must be like to know you are heterosexual, but, for whatever reason, have to turn elsewhere.

    What’s needed know is some compassion for these folk, especially now they are seeking some measure of forgiveness and to participate again as part of the nuclear family, in the only way they are able to.

    • Rufus

      Thanks for your post, Peter. 

      My cousin is gay.  I like the guy, always have.  Doesn’t mean I have to agree with his lifestyle choices, or his views.  We both know that. 

      And you know what, contrary to what Kosh might think, I don’t wish him any ill either.

      “What’s needed know is some compassion for these folk, especially now they are seeking some measure of forgiveness and to participate again as part of the nuclear family, in the only way they are able to.”

      What do you propose this might look like, seeing as the likes of Kosh will not accept anything less than whatever he thinks is his “right” (and damn all others’ rights to hell!).
      I thought a “civil union” was a great solution to the problem.  But apparently it doesn’t go far enough.

      What now?

      • Kosh103

        His lifestyle, choice or views.

        Wow – such love and support you show your cousin with those outdated understandings. You really think being gay is a choice.

        Educate yourself.

      • Rufus

         Kosh – he chose to be gay.  I know him – you don’t, so fuck off.

      • Kosh103

        So rufus when did you chose to be straight? When did you decide that the boys were not for you so you picked girls. When was that?

        Rufus if you think he chose then you are an uneducated fool living in the past. No one choses. You are what you are.

      • Rufus

        like I said Kosh, he chose.  I know him, I grew up with him, I watched him marry a wonderful girl, I watched him destroy his marriage and then choose to be gay. 

        You didn’t, so fuck off.

  • Agent BallSack

    Ignore Kosh and his Ad Homo (sic) arguments. If you dont agree with him now, you never will.

  • Greg M

    Kosh, you know my opinion on this subject. I would ask that you show the same tolerance to differing lifestyles and opinions that you expect of others.

    Bigoted and ignorant opinions have no place in this debate and should be ignored from all sides.

    I understand and respect your lifestyle, I would ask that you do the same for me, and others.

    Cheers G

    • Kosh103

      I have zero issues with anyones sexuality thankyou. It is fucktards who want to refuse homosexuals rights that I have issues with. And I will continue to go after the fucktards with all the zeal I can.

      • Rufus

         Kosh, you keep going on about rights.

        Please explain to us all which “rights” of yours you are being denied.


      • Rufus

        You keep going on about “fucktards”. 

        1. What is a fucktard, and how do I know one, so I can keep away from them?

        Is it simply someone who disagrees with you? 

        2. When you say “go after the fucktards” – what do you mean by that?

        3. What will you do with them when you catch up to them?

        4. Are you going to persuade them with logic and reasoning, showing them with compassion and empathy that they are wrong, and that there is a better way?

        5. re: “all the zeal I can” – do you know the synonyms of “zealot”? 

        They include “extremist”, “fanatic”, and “bigot”.