Gay dad vs straight dad

Yesterday I wrote a post commenting that Nikki Kaye should do something meaningful for gays rather than promoting a wasteful and expensive gay mardis gras.

It turned into a post where more than a few people started to talk about “traditional family values” and how marriage equality would somehow destroy them.

One of my readers, someone I know and who communicated with me regularly wrote this guest post:

I had a wonderful life growing up.  I had a Mum and a Dad married together. We had a warm, expressive and caring family.  Lucky?  May be.  But Mum and Dad worked hard to make us a family, and provide us everything we needed.

My Dad went on school trips, coached sport and taught my sister and I to ride our bikes.

My Dad would read to us as we snuggled up with him in bed.

My Dad was a great role model.  He volunteered to help people who had tough times.

My Dad wasn’t super sporty but he taught himself enough so that he could practice cricket with me in our backyard, or down at the nets.

My Dad picked us up when we fell, cuddled us when we were sad and he laughed at our corny jokes.

My Dad stood by us when we were tough teenagers, and he helped get us back on to the straight and narrow.

My Dad always encouraged us to get well educated, to follow our dreams, to have good manners and to care about others.

My parents split up when I was in my late teens.  They’d always been wonderful friends with shared interests but they weren’t in a relationship.

My Dad came out gay a couple of years after that.

My Dad is still a great role model, volunteering to a number of organisations.

My Dad still picks us up when we fall, cuddles us when we are sad and still tries to laugh at our jokes.

My Dad encourages us to go after our dreams, to care for others and to make a difference where we can.

My Dad is a wonderful Grandfather, as is my step-Dad (one is Grandad and the other is Koro).  They go on school trips, they coach my kids in the back yard, they read to their grandchildren in bed.

So, was my Dad more capable of loving and caring for me as a heterosexual man or was my Dad more capable of loving and caring for me as a homosexual man?  Makes no difference.  He is my Dad.  He has the same values, the same community spirit, and cares for his family.

It doesn’t concern my children that they have four grandfathers.  If anything they figure it is more people to love and care for them.  They still run to their Grandad and Koro and jump on their bed in exactly the same way they do with Nana and Pop, and Papa and Mopsy (long story behind that name).


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  • dad4justice

    As a dad to four kiwi kids, all I can say is love the people hate the sin!

    • Kosh103

      There is no sin to hate.

  • Grumpy

    I reckon this is bullshit, just too cute and winding up to a propoganda message…….

    • Bunswalla

      Yes, Cam, please only have guest posts from people with slightly less cuter stories. I’m sure grumpy can tell you exactly the right amount of cuteness to include.

    • Be that as it may, it is actually true.

      And I will post what ever I fucking like.

      • Grumpy

        ZSure. you can post what you like, but posts that lack touch with reality only damage your credibility.

      • Kosh103

        But grumpy by posting stuff like this cam helps weed out the homophobic fucktards in NZ. And then those fucktards can be made to be ashamed of having such hate in the hearts.

      • Except it is reality you idiot.

      • Grumpy

        “Four Grandfathers”????  I can work out 3 but where does the four come from???

  • barry

    it’s a shame there arent more dads just like that.
    we sure as hell wouldnt have so many beaten to death baby’s, raped 5 yr olds etc

  • starboard

    Isnt the guy lucky that his dad met his mum  , married , had sex and he was produced. Had the father come out of the closet prior to meeting the mother, your contributor would not be here.
    Homosexuality and children do not mix. A man and a man cannot have children together.It is not natural. Kosh et al need to get that through their heads.

    • isn’t star-bored a benchmark of sorts of a fool..?..

      (was it nature or nurture..?..his idiocy..?..d’yareckon..?)

      ..i wonder if he is just an irrational bigot..

      ..or if that is also leavened with hypocrisy…?



      ..and/if not just a pimply-actite-on-campus..and has reproduced..

      ..obviously on the short-list for parent of the year…

      ..and i guess he/she will try really hard to pass on their hatreds/bigotries to their off-spring..

      ..and that is really sad..

      ..and almost makes the case for sterilising bigots..

      [email protected]

      • starboard

        Youre in no position to comment on me philwhore. A man ( I use that term loosly)
        who has convictions for armed robbery and a lifetime of bludging off the system..youre a fucking disgrace. Your day will come my boy. 

    • My friend is a woman.

      • starboard

        doesnt alter the argument.

      • reply to star-bored:..

        ..that’s ‘conviction’..singular..35 years ago…

        ..(no excuse..but done while going thru heroin withdrawals..)

        ..and i have only ‘been on the system’..

        ..since being faced with the responsibility of raising my son as best i could..

        ..(i previously raised a daughter..not ‘on the system’..)

        ..and having myself been raised as a ‘latch-key-kid’…nh

        ..i knew the difference between coming home from school to a parent..(as my friends did..)..

        ..and going home to an empty house…

        ..and vowing at the time any child of mine would not face the latter option..

        ..i am nearly at the end of that now…

        ..and i do not regret making that choice/decision..

        ..and it horrifies me how so many are so casual about blighting children to a life of after-school-care..and warehousing on schoolholidays..

        ..and not that constant parenting they need..

        ..and all so you get to pay twenty bucks a week less tax..?

        [email protected]

    • Kosh103

      Bullshit. Given that homosexuality is found over 400+ species on Earth and homophobia like yours is found in only one, I can tell you it isnt me who is unnatural.

      And using your logic are you suggesting that hetro cpls who cannot have kids without medical help or adopting are also bad for children??

      A recent study in the state showed that a child growing up in a lesbian family was far more well adjusted and fitted into society with greater success that kids in straight families.

      So take your backward ill informed cousin marring supporter ideas and stuff them.

      • Grumpy

        Oh yeah, wonderful. The propoganda is flowing like water.  and your 400 species – bullshit, post a link or give us a list.

      • Pharmachick

        I think the Mayans were right, the world must be ending in 2012 … since I ***could not agree more*** with both Phil Ure AND Kosh103 (at the same time no less!!!).

        Surprise aside, this whole argument is effing ridiculous. 

        Our GLBT citizens are equally equipped to raise children – with a million times more compassion and caring than the feral bashers we see represented every day in the headlines (Raurangi, Witika, Glassie, Whakaruru – the list is distressingly long). 

        The biological argument about having kids has been farcical since humans decided we could easily manipulate fertility (the pill, 1961/1962), have regular, legalized and non-fatal-to-the mother abortion, and most prominently: the first successful test-tube baby (1978).

        A LOVING, CARING AND SUPPORTIVE home is far more important than some bullshit black power moll and hopeless mongrel mob bleeder having sex to create between a feral half wild kid with so little values that it rapes 5 year olds. Just, you know, as a random example.

  • Phar Lap

    I suppose the real moral to the story is for children.Any dad is better than no dad,especially from age six onwards.Wish my grandsons dad would live up to his responsibilites,and make contact after five years missing in action,him being manipulated by his   selfish de facto female partner,who for some reason or other remains childless of her own volition.Her control equals him and doggie,and of course she who must be obeyed.

  • Urban Redneck

    More reinforcement to the argument that homosexuality is not an innate and immutable condition but rather a manifestation of ephemeral sexual hedonism. Amidst all of the posturing and campaigning for “equal rights” and “civil rights” by homosexual activists, pretending they only want the same privileges that other families enjoy – the reality of the homosexual lifestyle, the public sex culture, the bathhouses – a reality so sordid, so shocking, so sinful and morally repulsive, even Marquis de Sade could’ve barely countenanced the sheer degradation and perversion that occurs within the homosexual community virtually around the clock. One glimpse of what really goes on in the heartland of the homosexual movement and their entire campaign of deception would be finished. If middle NZ ever woke up to what it’s really about – what homosexuals and lesbians actually do to each other and what they have in mind for our innocent children – the sacred cause of sodomy would be forever lost.

    • titanuranus

      Go on then enlighten us to your insider knowledge of what  the homos and lezzies want to do to our children…`gasp’………we are waiting with bated breath.

      • Kosh103

        We dont beat them, we dont abuse them. We ALWAYS want the children we have. Our kids tend to (or so the studies are now saying) do better in society, are more accepting, etc…

        Thats the sort of thing we awful gays and lezzies are doing to the kids we raise.

        Fucktards like urbanredneck on the other hand would sooner support a straight child bashers rights than admitt  we are just as good if not better in some cases at raising kids.

    •  urban redkneck..

      have you ever thought of writing letters for penthouse..? clearly display the relevant/required flair/passion for yr subject/topic..

      [email protected]


      •  your weaving of the theological with the scatalogical is particularly colourful..

        ..your final phrase standing on its’ own…

        ..’the sacred cause of sodomy’..’


        [email protected]

      • titanuranus

        have you ever thought of writing letters for penthouse..?

        You sure you want the competition Phil?

    • You bore me beyond shitless with that poor and sad excuse for reasoning. 
      Then again nothing new there

      Right time for that 2nd cup of coffee and running round with the hoover (beats the alternative that is the usual partake of a Sunday morning)

    • Blokeintakapauna

      No not really… we still have the Labour Party – and they’re like the worst case of herpes ever – ya just can’t get rid of them…. a bigger pack of festering cunts ya can’t imagine (except for MUNZ – but they’re really one in the same)

  • Guestposter

    Urban Redneck – yep, a small number of homosexual men are part of the behaviours you list, just as a small number of heterosexual men partake in group sex clubs, prostitutes and ‘public sex culture’.  The reality is my Dad and his partner do thrilling things in the weekends like weed the garden, paint the house, go to the library, catch up with family, help out at the community centre.  During the week they work and volunteer.  Yep, such a terrible “campaign of deception” at play in their world.  And I know what my Dad has in mind for innocent children – that they are all loved and cared for, that they have the opportunity to dream and achieve, that they are safe.  

  • Unklefesta

    What is a father ?
    The sperm donor who got your mother preganant? or
    The man who provided, protected, encouraged and nurtured ? any way you cut it, gay or hetro or whatever other pecadilos the man may have isnt the second one what a child needs?

    btw mine left when I was 7, only wanted to see me 3 weeks a year (grugingly) and a few weeks back asked if he was a good dad … I was like WTF you were not there for 13 years while I was growing up how can you consider yourself a father to me. 

    • Pharmachick

      Thank you, Unklefesta. 

      Agree 1000%My own biological father used to get drunk and beat the shit out of my Mum. She finally left when he started raising hands to us kids. My stepdad is the type of person I hope my (not born yet) kids grow up to be. He is quiet, dignified and strong. He gets drunk (occasionally) then goes to sleep. He is not perfect, but he is one HELL of a role model.  It was wonderful to have my Stepdad (my REAL father) walk me down the aisle. And yes, the biological male parent was there, more out of respect for my grandparents than anything else. But it was my “Dad” not the “biological sperm donor” that walked me down the aisle.  

  • dragonfly

    Given the choice of being raised by my actual (heterosexual) parents, or of being adopted out to a nice homosexual couple, I would have chosen the nice homosexual couple any day.

    • Pukakidon

       What a stupid comment, why would you not have chosen the “nice” hetro couple?

      • dragonfly

        Pukakidon, this is a matter of simple logic. Whale is essentially making the point that the lovingness of a parent is what counts, not their sexuality. This is the precise point that I was making too. Including the option of a nice heterosexual couple would not have made that simple logical point. Somewhere along the way you have lost the plot and seem to think this is an attack on heterosexual parents and that it is all about how homosexual parents are preferable to heterosexual parents. Your powers of comprehension and basic reasoning are clearly limited. You should not be calling other people stupid.

      • Pukakidon

         No Dragonfly you are the one that made the distinction between Homo and Hetro  parents.    The whole argument is stupid, parents are either good or bad regardless of their sexuality.

  • Peter Wilson

    Every comment here is way off topic. Of course there is no sin in being gay, and being around kids, raising them, well it is what it is. I’m sure there are just as many good gay parents as there are straight.

  • starboard

    “A recent study in the state showed that a child growing up in a lesbian family was far more well adjusted and fitted into society with greater success that kids in straight ”

    Aw yeah…” a recent study “. Fuck can pull figures and studies outa ya arse anytime. You lot just want to change the fabric of society. It will never happen. Keep pushin shit up hill nancy.

    • We will come back to that in 20 years shall we?

    •  by his words ya know him…that star-bored..

      [email protected]

      • starboard

        Go and have a shower ya smelly hippy

    • Kosh103

      And guess what starboard, your homophobic lot are losing.

      More and more people like you are being pushed to the fringes of society. One day, very soon, your views will be akin to supporting slavery.

  • Unklefesta

    Arrr starboard … the fabric of society will change no matter what we do … you are the one trying and failing to keep it in a status quo … change is always coming and will always happen.

    • starboard

      I wait to see the day Kosh pops a baby outa his ass…when that happens I’ll STFU…until that day I’ll keep pointing out the error of his ways. 

      • starboard

        Kosh has been outed . A rampant homosexual who wants to change the rules of life. Youre up against it sonny.

      • Kosh103

        LMAO. Ohhh dear, spoken like a true bigot.

  • Pukakidon

    One is not better than the other.   A gay father is a father and a hetro father is a father remember he was once hetrosexual to physically become a father and for what every reason changed to like men instead.  The bad ones are bad regardless of being gay or heto.   

    I get sick of some (note I say some) homosexuals (usually the ones who constantly have to show me how camp they are rather then getting on with life) saying they make better fathers than hetrosexuals, who are they to say this?   The fact is, there are many more hetrosexual fathers in the world who are good fathers.

    There is no reason to doubt that homosexuals can be good fathers, but dont cast aspersions on my ability to be a father as a hetrosexual.

    • Kosh103

      Homosexuals do not need to cast anything.

      Too many hetros do that for you guys already.

      • Peter Wilson

        Is there such a thing as a heterophobe. Kosh, nearly all of your comments these days are more anti-hetero than pro-homosexual.

      • dad4justice

        You talk about “straights” being evil? What a bent unit! Get a life poof. Bring back the days when gay meant happy.

      • Pukakidon

         Kosh turd brain.   Do you classify the butty boys in prison as good fathers, many have been placed in there for sexual misconduct against other males?  Or are these guys who prefer the act of male on male sodomy not homosexual? Who do you define homosexual, only those that are good?  Your a twat there are bad hetrosexuals and bad homosexuals, by your thinking Jeffery Dama would have made a better father than any hetrosexual.

        Your an idiot, in your thinking homosexuals have to be better than hetrosexuals as a father, what a biggoted twat.

      • Kosh103

        Peter – I know a VAST number of fantastic hetros. In fact almost all my closest friends are straight. I have never been one for the gay clubbing scene, always prefered to go clubbing – not gay or straight clubbing. As a matter of fact my parents were hetros, and theirs before them etc…

        And if the commnets seem anti-hetro, and this is making you feel sad, then (yet again) you are missing the point. The comments are not anti-hetro, they are anti hophobic. And if you feel too many of them seem to deal with your type of thinking, then perhaps you need to look at the way you think.

      • Kosh103

        Ahhhh I see D4J is getting all upset his internal homophobic attitudes are being shown up.

        Deal with it.

        And I see the same is to be said of puka. Getting all upset that the bad habits of some hetros are coming to light.

        Deal with it.

  • Andrei

    Aha –  deploying the “The Oprah Winfrey argument”  for unnatural marriage. 

    Well whoopdy doo – destroying the family is certainly not good for society and probably for those who grow up in broken families despite the emotional gush

    • Heterosexuals have done a bang up job of destroying the sanctity of marriage all by themselves without the assistance of homosexuals.

      • Urban Redneck

         A comment which displays monumental political ignorance. Why is it that you liberals only see things in one dimension? Fifty years of turgid social engineering and cultural Marxism has created the malaise witnessed now a days – divorce, abortion rates, incidence of STD’s, drug use, alcoholism, crime, welfarism all linked.

  • Patriot

    A Father creates and nurtures his son – and shows him how to be a worthwhile law abiding citizen that contributes positively to the greater good of society . 

     Having done the job of raising law abiding sons and giving him the tools to life for his future — if Dad then chooses to indulge in private personal pursuits – like having men’s penis’s ejaculate in his rectum ,it is then a personal matter — as long as Dad did his job and continues to play his fatherly role that equips his children for life ahead .

  • Unklefesta

    And that leads to the question what is a family? …

  • Pukakidon

    Peter Ellis, gay child-care worker at Chistchurch Civic Creche, found guilty on 16 counts of sexual abuse against childrent in 1992.  He would have made a great father eh Kosh!!!!

    • Kosh103

      Yea he would have. Considering he was innocent.

      I suggest you dont comment on things you have no knowledge of.

      But then I guess that would count you out of most conversations.

      • Pukakidon

         Innocent?   That is why he did his time eh, just fitted up by the police!  

        Keep on dreaming, because they are homosexuals must be good.    Jeffery Dama, Bruce Davis (boyfriend), John Wayne Gacy all innocent because they were gay.    They would have made much better fathers than a Hetrosexual man though under your thinking.

      • Kosh103

        Actually Ellis was “fitted up”. It was disgusting how the cops ran that investigation.

        As for the other 2 people you just mentioned, cannot comment, I know next to nothing about their going ons.

        And are you really wanting to suggest that becuase there are gay crims out there gays are bad parents? Really? If thats the path you want to take, I suggest you stop and think about the number of hetros up on abuse, rape, etc… before trying this little stunt.

    • He was fitted up by a community frenzy from people like you.

      Peter Ellis suffered perhaps one of the worst miscarriages of justice in NZ legal history.

      • Pukakidon

         I am sorry WO I have a bit more faith in our justice system. 

  • Unklefesta

    I just love the way these debates to into shit slinging matches hehehehe

  • Pukakidon

    Charles Manson would have made a better father than any hetrosexual eh Kosh!!!

    •  hey puk.. you know what a strawman-argument is..? seem seriously addicted to

      [email protected]

      • Pukakidon

        Pillip.    Typical leftist arse wipe, your argument that Homosexuals are better fathers than hetrosexual fathers is a typical Labour bigoted beliefs.   You hve been on this campaign of anti hetrosexual relationships for too long now, no one is listening.

        Remember it is the likes of me a, Hetrosexual father that pays your benefit for your child, you do nothing to pay for him.   So don’t tell me you are a better father than me who has to slave my backside off to make my and your children’s life a better one.  Get a job and support your own family rather than me having to do it for you…  Only then will your twisted point of view matter to me.

        I note above that someone said you are a convicted armed robber is this true?

      •  heh..!..puka follows the above with another clutch of strawmen…see below..

        ..don’t strike a match near him..he’ll burst into flames..

        ..and yes puk..i did some time..25 years ago..


        [email protected]

      • Pukakidon


        Thanks for the honesty.   Then you will know that there are bad Homosexuals and bad Hetrosexuals.  The argument that classifying parenting with sexual preference is stupid

    • Kosh103

      Not at all.

      But then in your books, all those parents who have been in the news lately for killing their children, abusing their kids, are better parents than queer ones.

      I would suggest you are a homophobic fucktard who does not like the fact we are not in the closet anymore.

      Too bad.

      • Peter Wilson

        tuttut….Kosh, unfortunately you are embarrassing the more serious minded homo-sexuals seeking a normal life – which is what any us want, a normal life, gays and straights. You are becoming the stereotypical homosexual, full of hate, bitterness and prejudice because the perceived wrongs against you all these years. Don’t become the Hone Harawira of the gay world, instead, work together to change perceptions and ideas.

      • Pukakidon

         You really do not like hetrosexuals eh!!!  That is the crux of the problem with your labour party, hate hate hate.   I dont judge someone by their sexuality I could care less.

      • Kosh103

        Oh peterW, please do not bother with that silly nonsense. It doesnt work on me.

        I am allowed to be outraged at inequality, and no amount of your tut tutting will prevent that.

      • Kosh103

        Your comments puka would suggest you do judge.

      • Pukakidon

        No once again Kosh,    Sexuality has nothing to do with it, as I said there are bad homosexuals as there are bad heterosexuals.

        I hope you dont refer to your children you teach in class as fucktards (discraceful play on the word retard), if you have ever had to look after an interllectually challenged person you would not use that sort of discriminating languge, it can be a very fulfilling task.

  • Unklefesta

    Puka, I take your Peter Ellis (gay) bid and raise you child abusing hetros … AL Roma, DS Tau, LF Sibley etc etc etc

    • Pukakidon

       You miss the point, the argument that Homo parents are better than Hetro parents is stupid.   There are both bad Homosexual and bad Hetrosexual people.  Sexual preference has nothing to do with being a good parent. 

      Sorry I dont know any of those you listed were they canibals and mass murders like Gacy and Dama?

      • Kosh103

        And yet you are trying to argue just that. That hetros are better.

        You lose.

  • make that 35 years ago..

    [email protected]

    • Pukakidon

       Good on you every one is allowed a mistake

  • Pukakidon

    Once again Kosh you are wrong, I never said that Hetro parents are better than Homo parents.  I said it is stupid to classify parents by their sexual orientation.   People are either morally bad or good.   It has nothing to do with sexual orientation.  I gave those examples of bad gay people to highlight the point, I know there are many bad Hetrosexuals and these probably would be bad parents. 

    What I dislike are dickheads that try and tell me that being homosexual makes them a better parent.

    •  nobody has said that..

      ..the argument being made..which you seem to have missed.. that the sexual-preferences of any parent are irrelevant.. all comes down to the quality of the parenting..

      ….so calm down…


      [email protected]


      • Pukakidon

         Is that right Phillip?

        From Kosh
        “We dont beat them, we dont abuse them. We ALWAYS want the children we
        have. Our kids tend to (or so the studies are now saying) do better in
        society, are more accepting, etc…”

    • Kosh103

      LMAO – you keep telling yourself that. Your comments say otherwise.

      • Pukakidon

         Boaring!   There you go judging people again, if they are not gay and have an opinion that sexuality does not matter in parenting then they are homophobic.

        I am over this silly argument, you are the “look at me look at me I am gay and therefore in some way more enlightened than you hetrosexual types”. 

        Show me the scientifically collated evidence that backs up your statement that says Gay parents are better than Hetrosexual you did say  “Our kids tend to (or so the studies are now saying) do better in society, are more accepting”.

        Front up with the factual studies and then I will believe you, typical teacher all mouth and no substance.

      • Kosh103

        LMAO –  in other words, I wont bow to your demands so your leaving.

        Good. Cya.

    • Pukakidon

       Thanks I will go now, but you just keep using discriminatory langauge like (Fucktard a play on retard) and having the belief that all heterosexual parents are bad in some way.

      What happend did an Intellectually challenged hetrosexual bully you as a child or something, it may explain the distain you have for them.

      • Kosh103

        You really are a simple creature.

        Fucktard applies to mindless bigots like you. Not all hetros are fucktards – however you are one.

      • Super_Guest

        Oh, calm down Kosh. Is it really worth getting so bent out of shape over such an unimportant issue?

  • Pukakidon

    In face I fully support Ali and her girl getting married or any other couple that want ot make that choice.    They are probably very good people and Ali was obviously a good parent as a hetro mum.  I see there would not be any thing to indicate that anything would change now that she has come out of the closet.


    • Travdog

      Alison wasn’t a hetro mum, she was a bi mum, thats old news, and she hasnt just come out of the closet.

  • Travdog

    I think it’s sad that every gay vs straight debate descends into abuse/homophobic comments/ignorance/stupidity every time.

    Kudos to kosh103 for standing up for who he is publicly, while I’m not the biggest fan of teachers, other than I’m sure he’s a decent person.

    And that’s all he is to me, a person. Not a gay one, not a straight one, just a person.

    • jono

      oh dear I didnt know kosh was a teacher.  Now its all adding up. Youre not Robin Duff by any chance are you kosh ?

  • Patriot

    My wife brings certain skills , traits and approaches to the raising of our children — I complement that with other life skills — Both of us together add more attributes to raising and teaching our sons , something about a drugfree life — than is possible with two people of the same Gender .
    For a start , i said they must work their way forward to a full drivers licence – and said they cannot use my car to carry passengers unless they commit …. It take one of each gender to get a better balance — two women cant teach their son about cars and woodwork and tools .

    Thats the difference  

    •  bloody hell…!..patriot..

      ..i also have not been able to ‘teach (my) son about cars and woodwork and tools ‘…

      ..having myself the barest of interest in said ‘cars and woodwork and tools’…


      ..(there’s always

      [email protected]

      •  but then there’s  lesbians i have know who have been handy with ‘ cars and woodwork and tools’..

        ..and have you heard..?

        ..wimmin build houses now..!

        ..(must be close to the

        [email protected]

      • starboard

        teach him cooking as well phool ?

  • Pukakidon

    Then if parenting has something to do with sexual preference the best parent would be a bisexual parent.   The male preference would be able to teach the wood work and cars and the female preference could teach the female stuff.

  • Super_Guest

    I really, really find this whole “gay marriage” thing to be a complete non-issue. I don’t care if they get it, but I’d be pretty disappointed if parliament was to waste their time and taxpayer dollars on pushing through something like this. Don’t we have far, far more important issues to deal with like the bludgers sucking at our teat and living in homes we pay for, or debt up the wazoo?

    Non-issue, gay fellows can get civilly united (or whatever the term is) so why waste time on this? Let’s get back to things that matter…


  • Ratchet

    I think the entire homo vs hetro argument in this section is both redundant and irrelevant. If you had a method of quantifying a parents performance and giving it a score, homosexual parents would quite easily come out well above heterosexual parents as the better parent.

    Simple reason? Contraception.

    Homosexual couples will never have the problem of an unwanted pregnancy – if they want a child it’s because they WANT a child, and because this is something that is biologically out of reach, when they do get a child whether through adoption, or in the case of a lesbian couple, artificial insemination, they treasure that child.

    Heterosexual couples? For the most part children are loved and nutured, but there is the element for whom children are not wanted, and are ignored, abused, beaten, or killed. That element is really only present with heterosexual couples.

    THAT is the reason the argument against homosexual couples can’t be won. The best parents in the world may be straight or may be gay, but the worst will invariably be straight.

    And bringing Gacy et al into this? Lame. Sexual orientation is irrelevant in serial killers.

    And yet, hedonistic homosexuals would make terrible parents, just as hedonistic heterosexuals would, the difference is party-boys don’t get knocked-up.

    • Greg M

       My thoughts exactly Ratchet.

  • Patriot

    Phillip Ure says ..
    bloody hell…!..patriot..
    ..i also have not been able to ‘teach (my) son about cars and woodwork and tools ‘…
    ..having myself the barest of interest in said ‘cars and woodwork and tools’…

    I Reply saying,
     As a father i show my son about camshafts,twinscroll turbochargers ( on my impeza turbo ) 0 to 60 acceleration times ,tyre sizes, tools in my workshop and how to use them,  — my wife shows the Boys a bit about cooking, what they need to know b4 they go flatting , what women think , — together we as male & female , get a wider & more balanced spectrum of skill, experience and advice from two different ways of observation .

     2 women generally would not have the range of experience that a man + women jointly would know and offer — on balance .

     I take my sons to the motor races , Fishing, Eden Park rugby , Golf ( he has a 4handicap ) , I was their Football Team Manager, Cub Leader , Golf Club Juniors Co-ordinator, took them up to Kauri Cliffs for Golf – + warn the sons about maori Gangs, like Mongrel Cowards and their drugs, & drunken criminal behaviour  etc etc  — yea yea , tell me thats racist  ( i am not European either )  .

    My wife takes him clothes shopping (+ pays for it ) , introduces them to the daughters of her craft group mothers and looks out for the sons she birthed .

    We provide a stable crimefree environment for them

    Tell me that this mix of  behaviour can come from 2 women  — No Way  

    Come on then — take up the challenge or admit — 2 women cant give the range of advice a man & women jointly can give

    • Kosh103

      What happens a persons boys are not into what their father is?

      You cannot make the claim you are as it would require every boy to be just like yours.

      • starboard

        Are you Robin Duff Kosh ? You are a teacher, so is Duff. You are a homosexual…so is Duff.

      • Travdog

        starboard, are you Trevor Mallard? You’re ignorant, so is Mallard. Your comments are irrelevant, so are Mallards.

  • monkeygirl

    Patriot, I think you’re problem is where you say “2 women generally would not have the range of experience…”

    I coach my son and daughter in sport, sand and paint decks with them, take them mountain biking, teach them to grow their own veges, to cook, to clean, help them with their homework, help out at school, etc…

    My husband coaches them in sport, takes them to movies, takes them biking, teaches them to cook and clean, help with homework, helps at school, etc…  We do a lot together as a family.  

    The difference is I have more desire to do the construction stuff (like building garden beds) and home maintenance like the deck.  I am probably better at it having had a Mum and Dad that taught me that stuff.  

    My sister is lesbian.  She is civil unioned.  My sister is very talented in building stuff, cars, sport and cooking.  Her wife (sorry, but civil union partner just sounds plain silly) is talented in crafts, sport, cooking, clothes shopping and has a great eye for interior design.  

  • dad4justice

    [WO: Watch it Peter…]

    FFS just like Farrar eh.

    • You don;t like it you can fuck off….your choice…use it wisely or it becomes my choice.

  • Boss Hogg

    With this Man on Man action is there a consistent “shirt tail lifter” and “pillow biter” arrangement or do they take turns at playing mummy and daddy……….

    That should get a response

  • Patriot

    Monkeygirl says,
    My sister is lesbian.  She is civil unioned.  My sister is very talented in building stuff, cars, sport and cooking.  Her wife (sorry, but civil union partner just sounds plain silly) is talented in crafts, sport, cooking, clothes shopping and has a great eye for interior design.  

    My Reply,
    Your sister may be talented – great for their Union & good luck to them. ( by definition , neither are wives , both are Union partners ) .

    My point is that a marriage of a man & woman can give a wider range of experiences than two women in a Union – for example the following ….

    My son chooses to discuss things like twin scroll turbo,air scoops, tiptronic,Directionals on my Impreza — Also  Twin Remus exhausts , cats eye lights, front spliters, 245s on the rear,  on my BMW Motorsport .

    Discussion goes on when to change from Reg to Stiff shafts + whether to use Aldila or Fujikura . Do we upgrade to R11 Taylormade or stay with Nike SQ square Driver. What loft wedges to include – is a 52* better than a 54* gap and shall he use Titleist Pro V or go to Callaway balls.

    We discussed whether to get a rear wheel drive mower and how the throttle repsonse works on a Toro , also i showed him how to harnessup with the bullbar weed eater from my use of the weed eater.

    I showed him how to back a boat trailer + how to sail to windward with the optimal VMG using the optimal sail and boathandling running the traveller sheet free so it dont jam in a quick tack

    I became a Scout leader – as a contribution to Scouts and his troup . Went tramping ( no women allowed )

    Football Manager
    I became their team Manager for 2 years — having played football myself for 15 years

    Can either Lesbian Union Partner have such a range of experiences that a growing son may wish to know and disuss — for starters , from my observations …. 

    Women can not be in Scouts .
    Women seldom choose turbocharged cars  to own
    Women seldom play Football for 15 years and become Football Managers
    Women seldom play golf in the teenage & 20s — but Korean girls often do .( i am not Korean )
    Women seldom Race yachts and are members of Yacht Clubs
    BUT  Sons often wish to know about ALL  these pursuits /interests

    Most Fathers in a marriage are better disposed to these subjects than most Lesbians in a Union — thats the POINT.  
    A Marriage can give more to growing Sons than a Union of 2 women lesbians can – for starters, a Man can give masculine advice to a son, where a woman cannot

    Hope you Understand the difference .


    • Travdog

      Throw away your wedge, get a chipper.Your game will improve close to the greens if you hit it right!

    • Women can be in Scouts…when I was a Scout Leader I had plenty of girls in my troop…on the basis of that one wrong statement I think we can take everything else form you with a grain of salt.

    • Kosh103

      Wow, you have a very sexist and narrow view of the world and the role of people in it.

      1950s views.

  • Patriot

    Kosh103 says ,What happens a persons boys are not into what their father is?You cannot make the claim you are as it would require every boy to be just like yours. I reply thus.Son wants to learn Golf  — to support him , i take up golf and Manage the Junior Golfers for the Golf Club for 3 years including Managing the Junior Pennant Team .. I never played Golf before he wanted to . Son wants to join Scouts – to support him I join Scouts and become Scout Leader — I had never been a Scout previously.So if your son want to develope a passion — aint it a fathers job to facilitate it even if the father has never done it himself before — some things of mine ( eg Football ) he liked , some things of mine he did not like  ( eg Squash Rackets + Tennis ) I sure as hell aint gonna be a Mongrel Mob thug , giving him grog, dope, and drugs .Fathers do certain things that women are NOT naturally disposed to do — get IT   ??

    • Kosh103

      And a gay father cannont do the same? A lesbian mother cannot do the same?

      And as for not naturally disposed to????? FFS you are living in the past.You are talking in out dated cliches, not fact.

  • Patriot

    Travdog says ,Throw away your wedge, get a chipper.Your game will improve close to the greens if you hit it right!========================Partiot says,,,, ….  Whats your Handicap — is it better than 4 hci .   If you use a chipper , i am guessing you dont belong to a Golf Club, dont play weekly and if you have a handicap – it would be about 28 or more ….. So we know u aint bullshitting – what club do you belong to and how many rounds of Golf have you got on Dotgolf … or am i completely wrong .  .. prove it

    • Travdog

      Light hearted comment, don’t be such an uptight prick for goodness sake.

  • Patriot

    waleoil says,Women can be in Scouts…when I was a Scout Leader I had plenty of girls in my troop…on the basis of that one wrong statement I think we can take everything else form you with a grain of salt.Patriot replies,In my area women who wanted to be Scouts were Girl Guides who met together on a different nite . My statement is therefore correct.Your logic is therefore fallacious about Salt  

  • Patriot

    Travdog says==
      Light hearted comment, don’t be such an uptight prick for goodness sake

    ==== Patriot replies, …. I see you dont like being challenged to front up ehh — you aint a Golfer — spotted that a mile off you useless prick ,no one uses a chipper except the hopeless & pretenders  ===   Dont bring a knife to a Gunfight , you’ll stab yerself in your arse..    Two can play the abusive game dickweed .

    • Travdog

      Still being an uptight prick. And got all pissy when you got called out. Now look who’s all shitty about it! Someone’s taking themself (and golf) far too seriously. Left your sense of humour at the 19th?

      No I’m not really a golfer, and that’s the funny part. But didn’t you have quite the tanty over it!!

      Oh by the way, if you click reply and use quotations in assistance with the snippet of my comment, anything after that is generally always assumed as your response.

      ” I see you dont like being challenged to front up ehh” jeez, still missing the point second time around.

      Take a chill pill, all that anger will just add to the wrinkles.

      • Travdog

        Wait for it….

        Patriot replies.=====……

      • Patriot

        Time to look at the debate — if you can . Try not to distract yourself so easily .
        Of course u aint a Golfer — spotted that from a mile off   
        Dont take yerself so seriously — you’ll get confused

      • Travdog

        I’ve contributed to the debate numerous times over the last couple of days, you may need to de-fog your spectacles. Unlike yourself, I’m smart enough to resign to the fact that It’s a pointless and redundant debate.

        If it wasn’t for your own self-serving need to be right and trying to make others see the same outdated Victorian view point you would have given up a long time as well, but go ahead, knock yourself out.


  • Patriot

    Kosk103,,Wow, you have a very sexist and narrow view of the world and the role of people in it. 1950s views. Patriot replies ,== sexist as in 2 women or sexist as in man & women  — make up yer mind ==  narrow view  or should that be having some structure to do stuff with a kid — as they say ” take a kid Fishing ”  — when was the last time you did that or took him to Eden Park etc etc == wow ,,  you , views of nothingness   ??  

    • Kosh103

      And a woman cannot take a kid fishing or to Eden park?

      Sexist fool.

      • Patriot

        Of course a Lesbian can go fishing ,go to the rugby , go to motorsport, go yachting racing, go golfing, talk twinscroll turbos, Remus exhausts, talk Aldila shafts , ProV1 balls  ,,,…. ALL day long
        Geez you are sexist , as u say

      • Kosh103

        So a lesbian can do all the things that you as a man can do for her son.

        My goodness, there might be hope for your outdated mind yet.

  • Patriot

    Kosh says,And a gay father cannont do the same? A lesbian mother cannot do the same?And as for not naturally disposed to????? FFS you are living in the past.You are talking in out dated cliches, not fact. == Patriot reply .. yes Homo  father can do the same — you missed the point didnt you  !!Lesbian mother yes she could — but– i did not see any Lesbian women doing the ALL the things i spoke about — 1 or 2 things,  but not all the interests,  boys CAN get into — geez get real , look at life in other areas — yes there are a few lesbians who do various things — but mostly Fathers that do male oriented things .== get a life Kosh , Lesbians can go about their business .. fine .. , but it dont mean they have a wider range of experiences to bring up the boys  == Kosh i am tempted to say you are full of shit or maybe its just late .

    • Kosh103

      Patriot you are free to think what you will, but your views are very backward and outdated.

      If you think that any woman is unable to help their sons fully without a male there to do the things that the poor woman is just not developmentaly able to do, then you are sexist. Perhaps you should go tell John Key this. He was raised by just his mother. Did him no harm.

      • Patriot

        Kosh – this is a views blog . You dont have any  views other than to say sexist

        My wife performs her function and i add to her functions — call it sexist if you wish ,,, so bring on sexism if thats what a Marriage brings to the table

        John Key was not raised by 2 Lesbians — shit you keep miss ing the target dont you .  Stay on message turkey .

  • Kosh103

    I am on message thankyou. You are of the opinion that a lesbian cannot do all that a man can for a son. If I am not mistaken a lesbian is a woman. So expanding your logic single mothers can be included in your sexist position.

    “My wife perfoms her functions” That statement alone proves my point. You are a sexist, and “functions” have no place in a marriage.

    But hey, as I said, you have your view and you are allowed it. As outdated and sexist as it is.

    • Patriot

      So if you are hanging tough — tell me what a twin scroll turbo is  — tell me when do you go to a stiff driver shaft, steel or glass   — tell me about Remus exhausts  — tell me about Prov1 balls , tell me about the new rugby laws — find me a Lesbian that talks these things

      ok sexist smart arse — start talking .– or get a Lesbian to tell me about those things .

      my wife does her job – i do my job   or my wife runs the house + i do the outsides — or do shall i say she does her  ” functions ” i do mine — or is that too sexist for Big you — get a grip on yerself – you are getting too PC

      .. shit cant you see brevity to decribe — only sexism , wake up , you backward Victorian turkey

      • Jadis

        Um, Patriot.  Pretty sure my husband has no idea what a twin scroll turbo is either.  Does that make him any less of a Dad to our son?  Of course not.  If our son decided he had an interest in cars my husband or I would read up on it with our son – or seek out someone who has greater knowledge in that area.  To me, any good parent (hetero or homo) would do that. 

        Saying that, Patriot.  You’re right.  In our marriage we have different strengths and we play to those strengths.  He is better at football than I am (despite us having both been reps, I do accept he is a better footballer than me), I am a better cook, he is better at maths so tends to help with that homework, I am better at English, the list goes on.  

        My point is that in any relationship two parents find roles that work for the partnership/marriage.  Gender roles aren’t the same for everyone, and there are ways to address lack of knowledge or interest in an area for the child’s sake (e.g. learn yourself or find someone else that knows). 

  • Patriot

    I’ve contributed to the debate numerous times over the last couple of days, you may need to de-fog your spectacles. Unlike yourself, I’m smart enough to resign to the fact that It’s a pointless and redundant debate.If it wasn’t for your own self-serving need to be right and trying to make others see the same outdated Victorian view point you would have given up a long time as well, but go ahead, knock yourself out.=====================good for u to contribute to debate — thats what this space is for — did you not realise that  ?If you were able to debate to the point you may get somewhere , instead of banging on about nothing – not even a Victorian view or Elizabethan view or a Marxist view — go ahead Unionise yourself .,  

    • Kosh103

      My my you are in a bother about being shown up as the out dated sexist you are.

      Ahhh well thats your issue (and your poor wifes), me, Im off to bed. Have fun quoting people who have shown you up.

      • Travdog

        That’s more credit than he deserves kosh, he hasn’t mastered the art of quoting someone properly yet.

      • Patriot

        Just cos you cant stay with a debate and call everything sexist .

        Try to offer constructive logical arguement —

        we have been married 20 years – 2 sons . I mow the lawns , cook the dinner , take the kids to rugby, golf , fishing , talk cars , talk wrestling, talk whatever they want to talk about — some things wife is more knowledgable , she takes over . I have a  B.Com degree from Akld University and do the accounting functions for the householf – obviously, cos i am better at that  .  Some things i know about — a lot of  things wife knows more about than me and tells me what to do — its a compromise , overlapping function — or dont you understand successful marriage and how they work  — obviously NOT

        Sexism has no place in our marriage but co-operation does and the best person for the task ,, is how it works — you numbskull — are u Married … NO ??

        There is No way wife — i bet u hate that word  – can do alone ,as much as both of us together , can get done — THATS THE POINT . or have i lost you again .

      • Kosh103

        Patriot, get it right, I am not calling everying sexist.

        Just you and your out dated views, thats all.

        And out of intrest why did you feel the need to state the excat qualifications you have? Are you that threatend by being outed as a sexist?

    • Travdog

      I don’t know if It’s alcohol or insomnia but you really should go to bed to save yourself from any further embarrassment.

      • Patriot

        looks like you lost the message too — bit backward ?

      • Patriot

        Pity you cant handle it – get married or cant you handle it   

      • Travdog

        The “message” is a dead horse.

        You are the jockey.

        Put the horse crop away.

  • Greg M

    Right you lot, Greg is in the room.
    This topic has been fairly hot here the last few days, and I have come to some conclusions.
    1: Religion has no part in this discussion.
    2:All parents of whatever background, gay, straight, black, white or brindle have something to add to their child’s upbringing , and the parent’s sexuality should not matter.
    3: A whole lot of people here need to lighten up, I have disagreed with kosh most of the time for ever on here, but his commitment to children as a proffesional teacher (and parent) can’t be faulted , and I support that.
    I also support his personal choice as to his sexual preference, because it is none of my business. ( signed:Greg Moore )
    4: Patriot, I hear what your saying, but times are a changin, expand your horizons don’t have to agree with it , but continue to voice your objections and thinking people like most of us here will consider your thoughts.

    • Boss Hogg

      Hi Greg, Thank you.  I also have been reading……………….

      You have it all done – Cheers.

      Lighten up people, we are all good.  Let’s focus on the bad ones that are doing the Devils work.  You know who I mean.

    • Jadis

      Yep, pretty much covers it.

    • Patriot

      Greg M –
      as i said  my wife of 20+ years who is a fiesty outspoken qualified designer – wouldnt stand for female denigration — she brings feminine aspects to our marriage .

      I bring masculine aspects to the marriage , that most woman are not necessarily , naturally disposed to .

      .. together we add different views – feminine & masculine,  to bringing up the sons

      My Point — 2 Lesbians can do a good job bring up the sons they may have, and good on them for their contribution thru their happiness  — but the masculine instincts could be missing from their Union , that could be included in a marriage
      If Kosh chooses to call that sexist & Victorian , my wife and i are all for sexism and Victoriana .. no problem

       so Kosh , have you been married sucessfully for more than 20 years and raised 2 sons — NO  ??  — try it , you may learn from the experience & appreciate what sexism is + is not .

       ps  I have a 5 acre lifestyle property in Auckland that requires frequent masculine grunt that not many Lesbians could manage — like u say,  as a sexist with Victorian attitudes – my wife & I have added collective skills or abilities to raise the sons ,that Lesbians are unlikely to have . Muscles for property fencing tasks for a start —   end of story pal.

       Even i get nackered after a days fencing — then occassionally indulge in my other passion – get in the kitchen ( where i belong ) and try to do a bit of Masterchefing to cook wife & sons a nice meal with a new menu with experimental sauces  — yea , thats sexist & Victoian too , During dinner at the table – we disuss maculine & feminine topics , including Reg shafts and stiff shafts for the Driver, fencing techniques  etc etc   , Get a life Kosh , youre way  too narrow

      • Monkeygirl

        Patriot – You need to meet my sister.  She’d be out their fencing with you in a minute.  She’s currently re-building her house.  

  • Patriot

    …..Patriot – You need to meet my sister.  She’d be out their fencing with you in a minute.  She’s currently re-building her house
    Monkeygirl – are you saying your housebuilding , fence building  sister is usual for Lesbians  
    and she has sons to bring up too — what does her sons think .

    — what does your sister say about taking her sons to rugby, fishing, golf and talking twin scroll turbos,345 rears , splitters , catseyes, remus twins,reg Vs stiff shaft flex, football, fencing, scrubcutting , purees, salmon cooked 3ways dish ,

    If she does these sorts of activities for her sons — good on her , good for her sons . Excellent stuff
    If not , then i made my point  that a complementary blend of feminine and masculine influences is a good balance for a son born in marriage .   Call it Victorian sexism if you wish . or any other name Kosh wants to blindly toss around .

    So who has sons that they are raising as a Lesbian — how’s it working out  ???

    • Kosh103

      WHy is it, no matter how much PROOF is thrown at you, you just cannot accpet that a lesbian, or ANY woman for that matter can do any acticvity you care to name just as well as a man.

      Deal with it.

      • Patriot

        Kosh , you have lost yourself again in a mire of self doubt and mirror argument ..
        I’ll say it just for you
        .. with a few exceptions – Men are masculine + women are feminine , and Married together they are more than the sum of their parts and complement each others differing experiences in raising any Sons + offering them direction in life.  .
        My wife is glad i show the boys things of male interest + i am glad my wife shows them artistic, design conceptual things which she is way better than me
        And together we compete with each other to create fine dining dishes and explore culinary tastes – she’s better than me — our family benefits from our varied interests from Yacht racing to Decorating    

        re your hollow comment about Proof . There is NO Proof until evidence is overwhelming and there is No dissent , until then Proof does not exist .

        You Claim Women CAN do any activity as well as a Man
        I say your claim is TOTAL RUBBISH

        Can any Women hit a golf ball in a tournament 330 yards like Bubba Watson – No , you are wrong again .

        Can any Woman run faster than Usain Bolt — Kosh , you lose again .

        Can any woman  drive in F1 Grand Prix , No, aint happened yet — Kosh it aint yer day .

        Can any woman be the Heavy weight Boxing Champion of the World — Kosh , your assertions are as stupid as you are .  

        Can any woman ride in Le Tour de France  — Kosh , give yerself an uppercut

        But Women CAN be smarter than men , CAN have faster intuition than men , CAN be better Lawyers than Men, CAN be as effective Prime Minister as Men ( except Helen Clark the control freak )  CAN be better thinkers than Men . CAN outmanouvor MEN  — Geez we dont stand a chance against a determined smart woman ..  Look at Maggie Thatcher who ruled Europe. !!

        So KOSH  — you see when a Woman with her feminine talents combines with a Man with his masculine attributes — sometimes , that combination gives a wider platform in a marriage to raising sons with a broader base to call on,  than a Lesbian couple in a Union . But I wish any Lesbian Union all the best for happiness & Contentment .

        KOSH , get married , stay married and have sons — you will then understand what happens and how it is to be married for more than 22 years and still love your wife for the guidance she gives to me & our sons  — you sexist Victorian , backward thinking  bastard …. open up your close mind and find some logic .