Sensible on Drugs

The Trentonian

Some sensible comments on drugs:

Philip Diaz, a distinguished social worker with more than 35 years of experience in drug prevention, said, “Gov. Christie is one of the few enlightened governors who understands that addiction is a disease and criminal behavior is a part of the disease, and he understands they need to be treated and not punished.”

Diaz said Christie’s plan is “compassionate” and “fiscally appropriate,” adding that he believes “it will set a national model” for how to tackle the cycle of crime and addiction in the United States.

Christie said New Jersey’s annual incarceration cost is $49,000 per inmate, whereas putting an offending drug addict in rehab can cost half that amount over the course of a year. “We have statistics that will convince you that those who’ve gone through the current Drug Court program, those who get treatment, are significantly less likely to fall victim to recidivism than those who don’t go through the program,” Christie said.

 


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  • nasska

    Finally some sense coming out of the USA.  Gov. Christie displays commonsense in suggesting treatment rather than incarceration.  Many in NZ probably don’t realise that US jails are full of people serving long sentences for simple possession of a narcotic or recreational drug.

    He shows backbone & a capacity for thought which he’ll need in a country which still sees the War on Drugs as a winnable strategy.

  • Super_Guest

    It’s not a disease, but the Gov, as per usual, is on the ball.

    • dad4justice

      Most in Gov are on happy socialist pills, surely they’re high as,ego trips, the pricks are doing nothing but thieving from the struggling dopey taxpayer?

  • where does the resident incarceration-‘expert’ stand on drugs..?

    ..is garrett a regressive on that too..?

    [email protected]

    • Super_Guest

      As opposed to progressives like you who’d let murderers out after a week?

      •  you really do say some silly stuff..eh superguest..?

        [email protected]

        • Super_Guest

          Perhaps if you weren’t so high/dim Phil, you’d notice that I was taking the piss out of your kind’s limp-wristed approach to rapists, murderers an child molesters.

    • Mr_Blobby

      Have you done something to help improve mankind yet? Are you still a growing net economic cost on society? When you die will you leave the World a better place than you found it?
      Thought not.
       

  • Blokeintakapuna

    http://www.leap.cc/ – Law Enforcement Against Prohibition…. makes sense really…

  • Yep – agree – legalise, tax it – save on policing and incarceration costs and gain income (GST) on the sales. Also there would be a good result in standard of quality, and would free up growth of hemp for all its other wonderful uses.

  • Mr_Blobby

    Agree completely legalize it, Prohibition has and never will work. Tax it like we do with Tobacco to offset the health/social costs. One less source of revenue for the Gangs, who would just love it if we criminalized Tobacco, The quality would go up because it would be subject to quality control standards. Why would you buy something of an unknown quality that could put you in a coma or kill you?
    Bonus we would not have to suffer fools like Phil the Pill Whore, who would spend most of there time in a stupor.

    • I suspect this would not work. The networks for distributing it in secret without paying any kind of tax already exist, so it is likely to stay on the black market.

  • ConwayCaptain

    In the 1800’s Opium and its derivatives were openly for sale in chemist shops etc in Britain and the rest of the world.  Old Queen Vic took laudanum for period pains.

    Britain went to war twice for the right to sell Opium to the Chinese and this resulted in the secession of Hong Kong to the UK and the founding of the two great Hongs of Swires and Jardine Matheson.  Read Tai Pan by James Clavell, great read.

    When I first went to sea Chinese and Indian seamen used to use opium and they could bring into the country legally as long as the Master held their supply and the Customs used to come down and issue their daily allowance.  If they ran out we used to feed them Gee’s Linctus which was part of the medical stores and this was opium based so they wouldnt have withwrawal symptoms.

    If they smoked it they called it “Chasing the Dragon”

    Note that Hone wants to stop the importation of tobacco and prohibit it.  Al his mates in the gangs would love this.

    All this stuff should be legal and supplied through Govt run outlets and taxed.  This would result in tax for the Govt and a lowering of demand as the excitement factor would be gone.

  • Agent BallSack

    (Declares personal interest) I am an occasional cannabis user (maybe once or twice per week), I find the biggest problem with usage is finding a supplier who’s not either in a gang or buying it from criminal sources. Most often I would rather go without than buy it from these sources and you can forget about growing it, that locks you out from the majority of countries even for visiting. A very close family member recently got an all expenses paid trip to Las Vegas, he had a drug conviction (cultivation of 2 plants) from 10 years ago in Australia – so long ago it has been wiped from his slate. Not according to the Americans, he applied for special dispensation, proved he was only going their for travelling purposes, yet still was declined a Visa to enter USA (His wife ended up travelling there without him). Quite simply the law in regards to soft drugs is an ass.

  • Peter Wilson

    The sooner recreational drug users are treated as full criminals the better. It reminds me of the old days when we thought drinking and driving was ok for the sensible among us.

    By creating a market for it, it means kids and others can become hooked and addicted and then move onto to harder drugs.

    •  pete..um..!

      ..second thoughts..can’t be bothered..

      ..old groundhog day arguments..

      ..meh..!

      …the conversation moved on a long time ago..

      ..are you still stuck back there..?

      ..quite the timewarp you have going on there..eh..?

      [email protected]

      • Agent BallSack

        Is that 2 or 3 times this year Phil? Damn I must be slipping. Adjusts right side wing.

    • nasska

      Yeah right: just as we all know that a glass of Dad’s beer is the precursor to sweet sherry & meths cocktails & shitting your pants on a park bench.

      For the vast majority of people marijuana is no more than a gateway drug to potato chips.   
       

      • Pete George

        The dangers of marijuana are overstated by some, understated by others.

        My nephew died of a cocktail of marijuana, alcohol and a prescription drug, all individual doses being non-lethal, and all three drugs contributing to a troubled life. He was due to start (again) rehab.

      • Peter WIlson

        As usual, it’s never as simple as you would think.

        It used to be gangs etc made a lot of money from selling dope. But now the police turn a blind eye, supply has gone up – guess what – price has come down, along with profit. Yep, you guessed it, now we got P, and the gangs are making money again.

    • Agent BallSack

      99% of the dope smokers I know are in full and gainful employment. That’s pretty twisted logic, get caught with a joint and lose everything. Your posts are becoming more vehement and hardline the more I see of you. Give up your vices – coffee tea, religion etc before suggesting what others should do.

      • Peter WIlson

        What are you on about….it’s a valid point of view I would have thought. You think there’s no harm in a joint. Others think there’s no harm if they download child porn. You’re not thinking of the consequences simply in the existence of such a market. 

        I may well be wrong in my opinion, it doesn’t mean it’s not valid.

    • Recreational drugs is not the issue – you’re surely referring to illegal drugs – tobacco and alcohol are both recreational drugs……

      • Peter WIlson

        That was in the 60s

  • Pete George

    “and he understands they need to be treated and not punished.”

    Better treatment would be good – but it’s only effective if drug abusers want to be treated, and many don’t.

    And there’s a lot of drug related crime that deserves punishment (and that inludes alcohol). In those cases punishment and treatment should happen together.

    • nasska

       Obviously your nephew’s death is highly regrettable but I would point out that an illegal drug was at most one third responsible.  Also I’ve never heard of anyone reaching (or dying from) a toxic level of cannaboids.

      There is such a thing as addictive personalities, also self destructive behaviour.  Not so long ago (in Christchurch) there was a fatality among a group of people who took cacti from various gardens & ate them.

      Do we need to outlaw ornamental cacti & send the growers up for ten years?

      • Pete George

        “Do we need to outlaw ornamental cacti & send the growers up for ten years?”

        Yes, they’re just pricks.

      • the only way you can die from cannabis..

        ..is if a bale of it falls on yr head…

        [email protected]

    •  sorry to hear about yr nephew..pg..

      ..but you had may as well say he had weetbix for breakfast..

      ..and factor that in..

      ..the effect cannabis would have had in that cocktail…

      [email protected]

      • Karlos

        Isn’t cannabis a relaxant that slows resperation? Sorry Phil, but while there may never have been a case of a death solely relating to cannabis use, it has certainly been a factor in many

  • phronesis

    49k $US to incarcerate a prisoner in NJ. Isn’t it more like 100K here?

    • Super_Guest

       Pretty sure NZ$100K is quite close to US$49K.

      • Gazzaw

        Youre way out of date SG. NZ$100k = US$82k

    •  reply to karlos..

      ..cd u present some evidence to back that claim..?

      ..’cos that is news to me..

      ..so some links/evidence wd help..

      [email protected]

  • I do not believe in the the disease model of addiction. Addiction is a choice that becomes an illness – that can be cured. The problem we currently have with rehabilitating drug addicts is in that model that tells them that it is ok to relapse and makes excuses for them by telling them that they have a disease that is beyond their control. 

    Bollocks. 

    I do agree with treating addicts and their offending with rehabilitation rather than entrenching them in the criminal justice system that once involved in takes away hope for a positive future – or at least makes it that much harder – but i will never agree with legalising harmful substances that causes personality disorders and brain damage in their users. 

    There is a place in between prohibition and legalisation where the answer to this 40 year old problem is. 

    For starters we should be looking at what it is about society and life in general that makes some people so unhappy that they cannot resist the desire to alter their state of reality – at all costs. Find that answer and society will be on the right track…

    • do you use alcohol at all jackie..?

      ..’cos if you do..yr hypocrisy is eyewatering…

      [email protected]

    •  and jackie..so what if people ‘want to alter their reality’..?

      w.t.f..business is it of yours..?

      ..it’s not your life..it’s theirs…

      …where do you think you get the right to dictate to others..?

      ..just ‘cos you don’t want to…

      ..some people don’t like pot…

      ..some people do like pot..

      ..it’s their choice..

      ..not yours..

      ..(and i wd appreciate an answer to that ‘do you use alcohol..at all..?’-question..

      ..eh..?

      [email protected]

  • Whalehunter

    So basically…Don Brash wasn’t crazy was he.  

    • nasska

      Dr Brash gave what was probably his honest personal assessment of legislation regarding recreational drugs but I doubt that there was ever much hope of having it included as ACT policy.  It must be remembered that at the time of his revelations ACT was going through severe infighting amongst its MPs.

      Something was needed to take the media spotlight off the circus & decriminalisation of marijuana was probably the last car in the driveway.

  • Stevo

    Legalising cannabis begins the slide down a very slippery slope.

    Why stop there?

    Maybe then we should legalise’ p’,  because the young girls that bought cannabis unknowingly laced with ‘p’ are now having to  prostitute  themselves to pay for more ‘p’ from  the gangs that deliberately got them hooked!

    Gangs don’t pay tax.

    Make it legal so they don’t have to buy from gangs…Yeah right. 

    • you seem very confused there..steve..

      legalising drugs wd take control from the ganga..

      ..but you are against that ‘cos gangs lace their grass with ‘p’..(!)

      ..(an urban myth that..by the way..eh..?..tinny houses may also sell ‘p’..but they don’t lace their pot with it..eh..?

      that’s just silly..)

      ..then you point out that gangs don’t pay tax..(another reason to legalise..)

      ..and then you reckon that legalising won’t take market control from the gangs..?

      ..um..!..sure you haven’t been indulging/imbibing..?..there..steve..?

      ..you seem deeply confused..out-of-it..even…

      ..eh..?

      [email protected]

      ..

  • Stevo

    Phill,

    I’m not sure about your expertise here to comment on such matters.

     I’m not going to repeat everything you have mentioned but i’m hopeing you can as  as others will be able to follow.

    Tobacco is legal and gangs steal untold thousands of dollars worth of it  every year, and sell it far cheaper than legitimate retailers. I bet you have bought some.

    You obviously purchase your drugs from a very old fashioned supplier. What makes you think people are so nice not no lace drugs?

    Market control is legitimate… Gangs don’t give a toss about that stuff.

    Who is confused or out of it?

     

      

    .

     

    •  i guess my/any ‘expertise’..comes from immersion…

      ..i have never bought blackmarket tobacco.

      ..i kicked that monkey a long time ago…

      ..steve..’p’ is too popular..and expensive..in its’ own right..

      ..it wd make no economic sense to lace pot with ‘p’…

      ..not to mention the actual hassle/problems of doing that..

      ..as i said..you are just parroting an urban-drug-myth there…steve..

      ..so..you are obviously still confused..eh..?

      [email protected]

  • another aspect of this debate that is not aired..”

    ..is that 1)..police consider alcohol a major factor is most crime/assaults..

    2)..a lot of people would rather smoke pot…than drink booze..but are scared off by the blackmarket/illegality..

    (and booze is much cheaper…)

    ..but if they were allowed to grow a couple of plants for themselves to use..legally..

    ..many would do so…’

    ..and as this would be free for them…alcohol consumption would drop..

    ..and if sin taxes on booze were raised at the same..making pot even more attractive..

    ..you would get a double whammy hit against crimes of violence..

    ..(esp. alcohol-fuelled domestic-violence..)

    ..now..the booze pushers know this fact..that they would take a major hit..

    ..is why they financially support political parties that will protect their market for them..

    ..in many ways..they are like the fucken mafia..

    ..buying/owning politicians like dunne…and the two major parties..

    ..corruption has many faces…

    ..it dosen’t always involve briefcases full of cash..

    [email protected]

    • Tom


      Rather to the point.

  • Stevo

    I think it has been proven (under what burden I don’t know) that use of cannabinoids increases the risk of paranoia! 

  • Unklefesta

    Holy hell … I agree with Phil …

    • Stevo

      I wouldn’t expect otherwise unklefesta.

  • jay cee

    ok confession time, nearly 40 years ago  i had a  couple of puffs of a joint (dont laugh) and was amazed at how it made feel as mellow as if i had had about 3 bottles of beer. that gave me an understanding of how dangerous it can be when operating machinery etc.
     the original point tthat it is cheaper to rehabilitate than incarcerate is valid, but only in certain crimes.

    •  was that yr ‘walk on the wild side’ there…j.c..?

      ..yr beatnik-moment..?

      [email protected]

      • Stevo

        You are jerk phill… You ridiculled someone who had “a couple of puffs” of a joint.
        Explain?  

      • Greg M

         Phil, I tried weed when I was 16, it made me sick for three days and I haven’t touched it since.
        Personally, I believe alcohol abuse in NZ is a bigger problem.

  • Stevo

    Thanks for that JC..

    It is good to see others point of view..

  • Unklefesta

    So Steveo …
    how many days per year of work do you think people miss because they got too drunk the night before and were totally incapable of working
    How many people end up in hospital every year from fighting … because of booze
    How many dead on our roads … drunk drivers
    …. but your happy your booze is legal …. hoypocrite.

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