How about NO?

NZ Herald

Cameron Brewer seems to have lost his conservative credentials, he seems all in favour of Len Brown loopy Rail loop:

Councillor Cameron Brewer, who chairs the forum, said yesterday that there could be some variation in the toll according to time of day and location but an average of $2 would raise about $700 million a year.

“That would go a long way to servicing and making inroads into the $11.7 billion funding shortfall,” he told the Herald.

But Mr Brewer said motorists should realise that 57 per cent of transport funding proposed by the 30-year Auckland Plan was for roading projects, leaving 40 per cent for public transport proposals such as the inner-city rail tunnel and 3 per cent for walking and cycling.

“If you don’t pay it through tolls, then you’re going to have to pay it through your taxes or rates,” he said.

Wrong Cameron…Just ditch the 40 per cent funding for the rail loop and chuck that on the other 57% and you have 97% for roading projects without any need for new road tax (which is what tolls are) or increased rates. There I fixed that for you.


THANK YOU for being a subscriber. Because of you Whaleoil is going from strength to strength. It is a little known fact that Whaleoil subscribers are better in bed, good looking and highly intelligent. Sometimes all at once! Please Click Here Now to subscribe to an ad-free Whaleoil.

  • Naylor

    The sooner they build the Eastern Corridor the better. Then all those wanker cyclists can have Tamaki Drive to themselves which should be good enough reason for those City Vision hippies to back it 100%.

    And if a few pukekos get run over along the way all the better – they’re common as muck and only good for using as feathers for trout flies.

    Mr Brewer seems conveniently silent on this road of national importance? 

    • He isnt in regards to the Eastern Highway (and neither am I) – we need Brownlee to give a hand with it first :)

  • Davidw

    The battle has been lost when the default argument is about how to raise the money.

    • AngryTory

      Sell the train set & busses – there’s the money right there! 

  • Top Bloke

    A toll on motorways we have already paid for ?
    They can get fecked.
    If they’d run for office on that platform none of them would have got in.

    • You would be saying yes very fast if it gave you the Eastern Highway, Second and Third Rail Crossing and expansion to the Southern Motorway.

      So want the road now or in 50 years?

      • JimboBug

        No I wouldn’t. I would say yes to tolling the new roads but not the ones we have already paid for.

      • Richard B.

        “So want the road now or in 50 years?”

        That sounds like the crap questions the “public” were asked about the Northern Gateway Tunnels and toll when I was working in Silverdale but lived furthur north.

        Q. Do you want the new motorway built now with a toll on it OR do you want to wait 20 years for the funds to become available and have no toll”
        I suggested a third option but they said I had to choose one of these.

        POLL RESULTS: The majority of the “public” are in favour of a toll being charged.

        I think the result showed that a majority wanted the road built.

      • What was the third option?

  • toby_toby

    If they’re going to charge tolls then I’d rather that money goes toward a harbour tunnel rather than a train set. That is assuming the govt won’t fund a new crossing in it’s entirety.

  • No Bloody Tolls

    We simply can’t afford any more public transport upgrades.No tolls either as we have already paid our taxes & don’t quote asian countries to me where they pay tolls as they don’t pay our high rates and taxes like we do here.It must be user pays if they want anymore upgrades.I will not pay tolls under any circumstance as we pay enough already.Let the muppet left wing greenies pay for it….

    • AngryTory

      Forget “more” and “upgrades”

      We simply can’t afford any public transport

      that’s the simple truth – when NZ is borrowing a Billion every week, we can’t afford any public transport whatsoever

  • Dave

    Bout time we sent the planners officials and the entourage to visit Melbourne, Sydney and a few similar cities in Canada.   They can do comparison studies for another 4 years, cost benefit analysis for another 5 years, and spend another 5 mill or so on travel, and will likely get the same answer.   We don’t need, and can’t justify a new rail link, when the existing ones don’t work.   Scrap the bloody lot, build a harbor tunnel.

  • Guest

    Tolls for new roads is fine – the Puhoi tunnel is an example of how we can toll new roads.

    But if Cameron Brewer wants tolls for roads that have already been paid for, then he’s a lightweight, or not capable of standing up to Len Brown.

  • Linz44

    You really are a bunch of Neanderthals aren’t you. Yes let’s just pave over the whole Waitemata. Let’s build a causeway to Rangitoto so we can subdivide it. Let’s drive a few more motorways through the CBD so we can get 200k plus people to drive there every morning. Let’s demolish the CBD and replace it with parking buildings. I’m sure done right they will be far more charming than narrow streets filled with people. While we’re at it let’s sell off the domain too. Think how many great branches of Bunnings and The Warehouse we could fit on there, with acres of car parking. Fantastic. Great vision, guys. I really want to live in your kind of city.

    • AngryTory

      Sounds like great plan to me!

  • Guest

    Oh thats not the infamous Lindsay Rea is it?

    • Linz44

      No it is not.

  • Look I am sure some compromise can be worked out here. Toll the new roads, toll the existing roads but for a limited time, say 10 years. That extra boost would able to finish off the roading system much faster than now. The sacrifice if we have proper planning and some leadership would be worth it – especially if means we get savings on that petrol bill.

    Look money talks right? You guys are blowing hard about not paying on existing routes. I believe other wise when your fuel bill tells you. Sacrifice those ten years, build the network, pay it OFF FASTER then drop the tolls a hell of a lot faster. Ok lets try this. The charge on southern motorway is what $3 one way, you travel Papakura to Town. The charging has either lead to a quieter motorway on its own or other transit routes to be built that quietens down the highway. Quieter highway means holding 110km/h in the SLOW lane constantly with out this stop starting crap and averaging 30km/h which is not good for the fuel efficiency nor maintenance. That constant high speed run would save you on gas and maintenance – and those savings would most likely be higher than you shelling out on the toll.

    Plus I wonder how many people use a motorway properly – that is long distance travel, not getting one and off by the next 2 exists (the southern end and northern end of State Highway one exempt)

    So what say you, if tolling and better fuel efficiency through a better run saved you say $10/week on your budget would you support it? Money where mouth is folks and I know where mine is, that $10/week saving back in my hand.

    Short term sacrifice for the longer term gain. Lets finish these transit routes now.

    • JimboBug

      I’m sorry but there is no way that the tolls will disappear. The law will be changed so that the tolls remain in place for ever after. Everyone will have got used to paying the new tax and somebody will find some other drain to pour the money down.

      New roads should be tolled so that the people who are using them pay for them. Which is exactly the same as Len’s train set – I have no problem whatsoever with him building it but lets make sure that it those that use it that pay for it.

      • And this is where my entire argument does fall over and even I know it and admit it Jimbobug. Shit governance past present and future has destroyed out trust in allowing the tolls to happen as we expect. You are right in your first paragraph which pretty much defeats my arguments including the one below I made.

        And true – user pays including the CRL. That I agree with.

      • AngryTory

        Bludgers / MUNZlers / Labour / Greenies can’t pay or won’t pay full costs of rail – lefties never do.

        Best thing is to shut down & sell of the train set, use the right-of-way for premium traveller lanes —- fully privatized; similarly fully privatize MAXX or whatever the fucking busses are called; and whack big congestion charges on high-value routes through the city. 

        Who wants Bludgers/ MUNZlers/ Labour etc around Auckland? Not fucking me mate!

      • Karlos

        The tolls dissappeared in Tauranga once each section of new roading was paid for, can’t see why the same couldn’t happen in Auckland, in fact Tauranga should be held up as a bluebrint for how Auckland should finish its roading projects, although you will more than likely find that, as with Tauranga, as soon as you complete the upgrade of one area, the problem simply moves further out.

  • Davidw

    The Korean solution is to charge the toll when you get off the motorway.  The computerised system calculates how far you have come since you entered the system and Bob’s your Uncle.  Of course it needs manned toll booths at every exit but what the hell, we need job creation programmes don’t we?

    • AngryTory

      Of course it needs manned toll booths at every exit

      only in the fucking 1980s.  Look at Melbourne, or even better, at London. Automated license plate reading, a small call centre in the Phillippines, that’s all you need.

      Best of all, get the price high enough and bludgers and losers can’t afford to drive — ever since Ken brought in the congestion charge, there’s no problem getting a park in South Ken these days! 

  • Salacious T Crumb

    So we pay general tax, local government tax, road tax via petrol taxes, road user charges, vehicle registration and of course GST on it all.

    Please explain why we should have to pay anything?

  • George Wood

    Why are motorists and truckies  being forced to pay for a rail tunnel.  This like other Auckland rail projects is not properly thought through.

    • Evening George.
      A legtimate question, but see it like this and this would might answer jimbobugs question. If these projects were all costed and properly thought through would you support the charge. Mass transit patronage is rising and its effects can be seen on the roads. Allowing 30% of the money to allow the completion of mass transit projects, the other 70 of roads all to get that traffic moving if it is all sorted and proper, above board then would you support the charge.? There are ways of doing this, tolling all motorways, tolling new routes, charging peak times only, increasing fares and most of this is traditional ACT policy which national supporters wish the party would do. That is would do until they pay for it? Shesh some of your sound worse that the Labour Party, money where mouth is. Ill make my sacrifice and take my savings to the bank. No wonder why this nation cant move forward

  • Whafe

    Its not so much about the tolls for me, it is the tolls added onto the tax upon tax upon tax upon tax that gets up my goat….. For goodness sake, we are wanting things that NZ as a country just can’t afford… Seems to make easy sense doesn’t it?

    You can drive a 911 GT2 RS on a Suzuki Swift budget….

    Lower the taxes and get things in balance and I will plead to pay a road toll for a new road!

  • Scott

    Wow, I’m surprised at the hatred on here of the idea of a DE-congestion charge. Its an idea as right wing as they come. The current situation where you have people worth hundreds of dollars an hour rolling along the motorway at 10km/h is clearly inefficient.

    If motorway space was correctly priced (i.e. free at 3am, market price at 7am) there would be constant free flow, ensuring fast flow of freight, and valuable people. This way low value users i.e. students, benefices etc would time shift, mode shift or reduce their travel.

    I would expect left wingers to hate this idea as the poor are effectively priced off the road at peak times to make way for more valuable people / freight.

    There is no reason congestion charging revenue couldn’t be used to lower taxes or rates.

    (although given the deficits both central and local govt seem to be running in the long term total revenues must be increased or spending decreased to return to a sustainable situation)

  • Allan

    And I thought Cameron Brewer was an intelligent person.  How wrong can you be.  He has been sucked in by the same old Socialist bullshit.  We can not afford the train set so it should just be scrapped.  Auckland’s geography does not suit it, and if money is to be spent on any public transport surely trams would be a decent alternative.

  • Pukakidon

    Tax cyclists, they pay nothing and piss me off when I am trying to use the road that I have paid for. They are always falling off and getting free hospital care like Mallard, and to make it worse they pay no ACC levies. Make them register their bikes like motorcyclists and pay ACC levies.

    If you don’t want to pay the toll don’t use the toll road, sit in the slow lane with the arrogant cyclists.

  • Gazzaw

    No one has raised fucken car-transporters yet. Take a drive up Gt South Road at 7.45am through secondhand car alley between Campbell Rd & Greenlane. One morning last week there were two transporters offloading cars in the bus lane and two more in the median strip. Not a cop in sight, just some Auckland City drone taking photos of any driver stupid or desperate enough to deviate into the buslane to get around the jams.


  • Pukakidon

    Here is a good example of an arsehole in Lycra

  • Evan Johnson

    Better solutions exist.

    1,  CLOSE DOWN BRITOMART.  Its a rail “road to nowhere”.
    2.  Re-open the old Railway Station platforms.
    3.  Setup lightrail or monorail or trams or light rail to chug along the waterfront.
    4.  Setup Cable Car to take students up the hill from railway station at The Strand to Anzac Avenue

    Its common sense.

    Britomart was a serious mistake but its a sunk cost.  Time to move on guys.  

    Don’t blame yourselves – from memory it was guys like Les Mills, Ken Graham, John Banks ..

  • muffin

    Just seen this and really pissed off by it. I left the following on Camerons Facebook page.

    Cameron, I am annoyed that I voted for you now and thought that you had the ability and foresight not be one of loopy lens men. It seems I was wrong so I am glad your term on the council may be a short one…. why should we pay for infrastructure that has already been paid for? I would agree to a toll on a new piece of road if it delivered a benefit but you really are pushing the brown stuff up hill if you think we should pay for existing roading again.

  • Edwin Wigmore

    I really believe we need a thorough investigation of council spending.  First rule of budgeting, if you don’t have enough money, look at how it is being spent first and then how you can earn more.

    for example, almost everyone has forgotten about the old ARA.  This was set up along with a massive jump (about 23%) in rates.  Originally it had a separate bill that was sent, but this was later amalgamated with the general rates bill.  

    Then their clever plan started.  Once people were used to spending the money, they shut down the ARC (effectively giving the councils an extra 20%) and set up the ARC and made us pay for the whole damn lot again.  Once we were used to that, they massively increased those rates again.  In spite of all this, they still don’t have any money.  Where the hell is it all going?

    I remember when water bills were first sent out, the cost was $60 a year, what is it now?

    Given their track record we must resist wholesale any tolls.  God knows what that will morph into over time and how much money will be extorted from us.

    • Peter Wilson

      One thing I’ve noticed is council’s rhetoric of any criticism.

      It’s usually along the lines of having to close library, swimming pools or other sacred cows -IF rates are not going to increase!
      And the other one – which I have some sympathy for – is central govt has lumbered extra duties on them, and it all has to be paid for.

  • Blair Mulholland

    Yes, gotta confess I am a bit grumpy with Cr Brewer right now – if he really wants to stop the shoebox stores on Queen Street he should try loosening up the restrictions on carparking that have strangled shopping in the CBD.  The answer is less planning, not more.  Honestly, where can we find a principled right wing politician these days?!