Why not unite to stop little boys being buggered?

The Telegraph

The Catholic Church has lost its moral compass. It hides away pederastic priests, refusing to deal with an issue that is destroying the church, yet wants to stop consenting adults marrying the person they love.

They want to unite with Jews and muslims to stop gay marriage, perhaps they should unite to stop priests buggering altar boys and goat sex.

The Pope’s representative in Britain has urged Roman Catholic leaders to form a united front with their Muslim and Jewish counterparts to oppose gay marriage.

Archbishop Antonio Mennini, the Apostolic Nuncio, called for closer co-operation with other faiths as well as Christian denominations to put pressure on the Government over its plans to allow same-sex couples to marry.

In an address to Catholic bishops from England and Wales, he echoed the recent comments of Pope Benedict who said the Church faced “powerful political and cultural currents” in favour of redefining marriage.

His comments come after a series of high-level interventions by some Muslim and Jewish leaders last month after the Equalities Minister, Lynne Featherstone, launched a national consultation on how same-sex marriage might be introduced.

Last month the Muslim Council of Britain voiced opposition to the plans, describing it as “unnecessary and unhelpful”.But, as the Islamic faith in Britain does not have the same hierarchical structures as Christian Churches, much of the Muslim opposition has been voiced through local alliances.

In Scotland, the Council of Glasgow Imams recently agreed a joint resolution describing same-sex marriage as an “attack” on their faith and fundamental beliefs.


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  • ConwayCaptain

    In my opinion the RC Church has no right to set itself up as a leader of morals.

    This is the organisation that over the years has ammassed GREAT WEALTH and remember the scandals in the 80’s about Banco Ambrosio and the Italian Banker found hanging under a bridge in London.  Doubts are still held about the probity of the Vatican Bank.

    This is an organisation that is responsible for the killing of vast numbers of Latin American natives during the Spanish conquest.

    This is the organisation that was responsible for the great massacres during the Crusades and the results are still with us today.

    This the organisation that was responsible for the great wars of religion when people rose up against the corrupt RC Church in the 16th/17th centuries

    This is the organisation that is responsible for the poverty in areas like the Phillipines withs its contarceptive stance and therefore the poverty in the area.  Huge churches paid for by the poor.

    This is the organisation that was responsible along with Franco for the massacres in Spain in the Civil War and after,

    This is the organisation that helped Nazi war criminals travel to Latin America and hide after the war.

    So I suggest that the Papal Nuncio goes and gets knotted

    • Isumbras

      There is so much historical illiteracy in this comment that I can only shake my head in wonder. Space doesn’t permit nor inclination found to waste my time countering such tosh.
      I doubt the fog of bigoted anti-catholicism can ever be penetrated…
      Has the Church made mistakes… of course, what human institution hasn’t… but
      you really think the Spanish Civil War was a one sided affair? Really?.. The Republicans murdered as many if not more than the Nationalists. 6,832 alone in Catholic Clergy, massacred in 1936. Got pretty good at murdering themselves in true communist style as well.
      Yes Latin American society was such a beacon of humanity until the conquistadors turned up. All fluffy bunnies and unicorns gamboling around the jungle Especially those Aztecs .. believed to have murdered as many as 250,000 individuals per year toward the end of the 15th century.
      I can’t be bothered with any more, the outdoors are calling…….

  • Brian Smaller

    Cue the hate Catholicism rants of the day. Even as an atheist I cannot fathom why you people hate this institution so much?  You had more chance of being buggered as a child by someone in your family or boy scout troop leader than a priest.  When it comes to gay marriage, Whale and plenty of others take the position that theirs is the only right course, and anything or anyone else that opposes it is evil and morally bankrupt. I support gay marriage, but understand that there are plenty of people who do not – and I might remind you lot, that the RC church does not make the law of the land. Direct your ire against the pollies. It could become law tomorrow if they actually wanted to do it.

    • There is no hate on my part, i simple see them as free hits, that they offer up with their rank hypocrisy and inconsistency

      • Magoo.

        Cameron, consider this. Of all the child molestation that goes on in the Catholic Church how much of it is committed by homosexuals? Perhaps if the Catholic Church purged the homosexuals from it’s ranks there wouldn’t be such a problem. You are right about the hypocrisy & inconsistency, & my points above prove it.

      • Kosh103

        Oh Magoo, what a pile of nonsense.

      • Alex

          @Magoo.  Nice try, again an instance of RC refusal to accept that they’re wrong; it’s due to the infiltration of the satanic “other”.  Of course, your theory only works if (1) homosexuals are interested in young boys and (2) only boys were abused.  Both of which are totally untrue and you know it.   

        A better solution to the problem would be the RC Church to end its stupid and misogynistic policy that only celibate men can be priests.  That’s the root of the problem: the RC Churches irrationally fear of priests expressing their sexuality in a healthy manner and having families.   

      • Magoo.

        @ Alex. I’m not a Catholic & I’m certainly not sticking up for the church’s attempts to sweep it under the carpet, just observing the facts. Cameron’s title of his post is about ‘little boys being buggered’ which is born out in reality. Celibacy plays it’s part, but why are the 81% – 19% stats below stacked in the manner that they are if it has nothing to do with homosexuality – convenience maybe?
        @ Kosh. Which part is nonsense Kosh? The bit about homosexual priests raping little boys (I don’t think the nuns are doing it), or the possibility that if the church adhered to their own principles there would be no homosexuals in the clergy raping little boys?

        According to the following article 81% of the molestations are on boys & 19% on girls. Both of you can bury your head in the sand and try to cover up the reality of it, but there it is for all to see.


  • Ddduble

    The RCC is  a corrupt and evil organization set up with the purpose of teaching a lie for the benefit of mortal Men seeking power….

    • Brian Smaller

       You mean like the Labour Party.

    • Gazzaw

      You mean like any political party.

  • “Cue the hate Catholicism rants of the day. Even as an atheist I cannot fathom why you people hate this institution so much? ”

    Whale is like many who frame themselves as politically right in NZ, in that he is at heart a cultural Marxist. David Farrar is of the same ilk, and so is Cactus Kate.

    They are not right wingers in so far as the full political spectrum is concerned, but they could be considered “right” within the striclty limited left dominated spectrum that exists in NZ.

    Unfortunately, that’s more or less the big problem with NZ. (and the Whale Oil blog) So culturally to the left, there is no real understanding of what the alternative might be. It is a political state that cripples our country.

    • Alex

      What an arrant load of crap. 

      The right wing derived from the UK was vehemently anti-Catholic, and to a greater or lesser extent, totally opposed to clerical interference in the affairs of the state.  In the USA, the Founding Fathers sought to utterly prescribe any institutional religion form exerting any influence over state affairs,  The founding fathers were hardly “cultural marxists”. 

      From a moral perspective, the RC Church is a few degrees short of the extreme Islamists.  Provcative yes, but the point is this: like the Islamists, they consider that anyone who isn’t totally obeident to their faith is going to hell, and accordingly such people are worthy of lesser treatment. That alone is enough to dispise the RC Church.

      There should be total separation between the churches and the state end of story,  Churches should stick to sermons and charity as their founder taught. 

      It’s funny how you RedBaiter claim to be so anti-marxist yet share their most repellent characteristic — a refusal to accept that anyone who doesn’t share every single one of your beliefs is a “true believer”. 

    • Kosh103

      Those, such as yourself RB, who put themselves up as the true right wingers tend to be the most hate filled people in the country.

  • Travdog

    I wasn’t aware there’s been any “buggering alter boys” cases lately, or “goat sex”. This pro gay marriage crusade is getting a bit out of hand, especially when it comes to pointless attacks of another group because they’re working against your agenda.

    Goat sex? Come on Cam, seriously? Poor form sorry.

    • It is toungue in cheek that they want to work with the Muslims…

      • Travdog

        my mistake, didn’t realize that was a reference to the muslims, explains why i can’t find any cases of Priests fucking goats! but as soon as I type in ‘muslims fucking goats’………

      • Brian Smaller

         Well the Islamists running Egypt now want to make it legal (as well as sharia compliant) to fuck your wife for up to six horus after she is dead. A sort of “one for the road” last bonk thing.

  • Butts_McButts

    While strongly atheist, the Catholic Church is the religious institution that I’d probably most strongly identify with. I don’t buy into the happy clapping or rock music in churches, and if you’re going to feel bad about sin then the Catholics have got it down to a fine art.

    But this long drawn out non-response to the kiddie-fiddling issue is ridiculous from a PR point and  even if I were of the faith, I sure as hell wouldn’t be actively engaging any institution who didn’t openly name and shame those who have been corrupting children in any way. So they can count me as a comfortably lost soul, and it will forever stay that way as long as they drag their feet on this bullshit. 

  • Gazzaw

    Well said Brian. I am a non-practising Christian and a non-Catholic but the continual anti-Catholic ranting gets on my goat here almost as much as the anti-teacher crap. In all other respects I feel quite at home on this blog. I respect most of the opinions expressed here and like to think of myself as a libertarian right winger but cannot stand bigotted cant. I don’t like the teachers unions but having teachers in my family I know just how dedicated most of them are. It is Sunday morning as I post this and am about to give one of those teachers a lift into school so that she can take her kids away on a field trip – she does 55 hours a week, works for 60% of her holidays and with a double degree in education & economics earns $54k. Teaches because she loves it. When I read the mindless anti-teacher rants here it truly pisses me off. Anti union yes, anti teacher no.

    Same with the Catholic church. Go ahead, attack the kiddy fiddlers of all persuasions – hang the bastards for all I care but don’t attack an institution that for all of it warts is valued by so many of our fellow Kiwis. The Catholic church does not have child molesting on its own nor the institutionalised protection of the offenders. Look around you.

  • Redneck

    The term that gets me is this “paedo priest” tag. Great headline, punchy and a nice double P alliteration – the only problem is that it’s not true . .

    As it turns out the vast majority of offending priests’ misdeeds do not involve paedophilia – sexual contact between an adult and a pre-pubescent youth. Rather, they amount to sexual seductions of teenage boys by predatory homosexual men who have abused their position of authority and trust. According to research conducted by National Review, 85% of the victims were post-pubescent boys. A significant remainder of the other abuse cases were primarily for dodgy/harsh Benson-Pope-esque disciplinary methods.

    How do liberals jump through the necessary hoops to avoid the reality that the problems experienced in the Catholic Church and in the Boy Scouts is none other than smooth talking predatory homosexuals? Easy. Just call the homosexual priests and scout leaders “paedophiles”. That takes the spotlight off homosexuality, and then simultaneously pretend there is no link between predatory homosexuals in positions of authority over young boys and the ensuing abuse.

    Gay rights, abortion rights, hate crimes, death with dignity rights. behind these facile news labels are what amount to a virtual-reality construct – sophisticated marketing products composed of lies and truth seamlessly thrown together. Welcome to the mad hatters tea party that is the West today.

    • Grumpy

      +100, on fire today red……

    • Phar Lap


    • BJ

      The irony is that the very institution – the church – that wants to stop gay marriage – is probably the very sector that has made ‘homophilia’  ( my new word ) insidiously creep into society. Interestingly, if what you say about the majority of offending being with  post-pubescent boys over younger children is true Redneck, then the behaviour would be called hebephilia or ephebophilia NOT pedophilia.  Its just that outside the church it seems for some, this practice [homphilia] is ok when ‘all the boys’ grow up!

    • Kosh103

      Ahhhhh yes misrepresent the truth and blame the queers.

      Is that the job of real right wingers eh RB.

    • davewin

       Very well said.

    • Alex

      Tell us about the statistics for sexual abuse in the general community RB.  Take a look: http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32315

      Think you’ll find the great majority are girls sexually abused by men: So these too are not “paedos” I presume, but rather hetero men.  So by the same logic, we must keep hetero men from children lest they sexually abuse them. 

      • Redneck

         Male homosexuals commit a disproportionate amount of sexual abuse against minors. The politically correct response necessary to take the spotlight of homosexuals is of course to claim that such attractions are about “power” and are not therefore sexual in nature, but here’s the reality: is if a male is attracted to young girls that is a heterosexual attraction whereas attraction to young boys is a homosexual one.

        Actually the link referenced was quite right in stating that about 25% of sexual abuse victims are boys. Quite a disproportionate number when compared to the percentage of male homosexuals in the general population. Typically, sexual abuse of minors is 20 to 33% homosexual in nature.

  • Big Bruv

    The Catholic church, the sky fairy followers who think that AIDS is bad but condoms are worse.

    Whale is right, there is not a bigger bunch of hypocrites on the face of the earth.

    There is little doubt that Islam is one fucked up religion (well they all are really) but Catholicism is equally as bad, they just perpetuate their evilness in different ways.

    • Travdog

      there is not a bigger bunch of hypocrites on the face of the earth.”

      If thats what you think then you need to open your eyes a little wider, but I don’t wan’t to be this threads philip ure and drift off topic.  

  • Big Bruv

    Eyes are well and truly open. But yes, I take your point.

  • Peter Wilson

    I wonder what the actual stats are?  What percentage of priests actually commit these horrendous acts? Is it any more than other occupations where leadership roles present “opportunities”?

    Anecdotally, in NZ, I’m more aware of non-priests committing these acts – or is that because they are covered up? Quite convenient. And if there are cover ups, then the focus should be on the police and their investigations – if there is evidence of course.

    The hypocrisy is clearly a non-issue. Unless the claim is that politicians of all ilks claiming to care about the poor don’t have double standards.

    I do have to wonder why religion and catholics in particular excite so much hatred. I suspect there is a little envy and regret involved.

    •  “Hypocrisy” is one of the left’s favourite catch cries, when just as there is more sexual offending with minors in the secular society, so does their ideology drip with it by means of a thousand logical inconsistencies.

      Nothing more hypocritical about the shimmering and morally relative left than their preoccupation with calling others hypocrites.

      • Kosh103

        Ohhhh RB, you should go on tour with comedy gold like this.

      • Peter Wilson

        Probably a few years ago, Catholics and the like could be accused of hypocrisy. Nowadays the h word abounds with examples:

        Union leaders on $100k pleading for their poverty stricken members
        Teachers earning 70k and working only part of the year.
        Politicians doing backroom deals

      • Alex

         @7c294ff9f4121e360e2c97cc48f1004e:disqus you’re wasting your time trying to reason with the angry little man who is RedBaiter.  If you don’t agree with him completely, you must be a commie.  There is no other explanation. 

      • Kosh103

        Oh Peter I have to call you either a fool or a liar in regards to your comment about teachers.

        So which is it?

  • Adrian Johns

    I was raised as a catholic and went to catholic schools.  I have had a lot of dealings with some excellent Priests, Marist brothers and nuns and some not so good ones, yes there was a conviction for kiddy fiddling many years later.  To this day I appreciate the values I learnt through that upbringing and try my best to live my life according to those values, albeit with varying levels of success.  
    That said the Catholic Church is without doubt a very corrupt and morally shaky organisation.  I several people here are missing the issue here with regard to the pedophilia issue, the issue is not that it happens in the church as it does everywhere else, it is that the church is actively involved in covering it up.  If they want to retain the moral high ground they can’t do this without looking hypocritical.
    I have read widely on the Vatican Bank scandal, there is no doubt they were involved in some very dodgy stuff, US treasury bill fraud, and strong ties with Banco Ambrosiano which was principally owned by the mafia for money laundering purposes.  The banker mentioned above by the Captain was Roberto Calvi, the Chairman of Ambrosiano. 

    The is that conclusion the catholic church is no position to take the moral high ground.  I can agree with a lot of their teachings and disagree with others ( contraception, gays) but I cannot take their hypocrisy.        

    • Alex

       The problem Adrian is that the RC Church doesn’t allow its followers the luxury of picking and choosing from its beliefs — reject one, reject all they say,  Hence they’re cracking down on :those “heretical” nuns now.  So I fail to see any difference between the RC Church and totalitarian states.  For that reason, I can’t stand the RC Church — it seems to be a force of darkness by and large.   

      That said, I’ve met many excellent — morally upstanding, intelligent and tolerant — people who happened to be Catholics too, and these people challenge my  sternly anti-Catholic upbringing.  At the end of the day, the best moral guide is to be found in one’s reasoning processes, democratic debate and reading history.   

      •  “At the end of the day, the best moral guide is to be found in one’s reasoning processes,”

        Well you’re right up shit creek without a paddle then for to call the RCC (which anyone can leave anytime they choose) as the equivalent of a “totalitarian state” where people are murdered for disagreeing (example China, Cuba) shows that when it comes to reasoning ability you don’t have any. And left wing ideology is essentially amoral and anti-human anyway.

      • Kosh103

        “And left wing ideology is essentially amoral and anti-human anyway.”

        LMAO what a load of bullshit RB 100% Grade A bullshit.

        You mind is so twisted with hate and far far right garbage that you fail to have any grasp on reality.

  • Bunswalla

    Everyone seems to have missed the main reason the catholic church is so hypocritical – BTW I agree with all the others. If they allowed priests to marry, like all the other religions do, the vast majority of abuse by priests would never have happened, and the incidence would in my opinion be no greater than in the general public.
    To insist publicly on celibacy for all priests is to deny one of the most basic human instincts, desires, and drivers of behaviour. The fact that privately they acknowledge and even tacitly condone, by shifting “difficult” priests from parish to parish, this kind of behaviour makes them more reprehensible and even bigger hypocrites.
    I guess there’s a reason that the places priests study before the go into the church is called a seminary.

    • Getting married does not cure homosexuality or paedophillia or promiscuity for that matter, so it does not follow that allowing priests to marry would prevent sexual abuse by priests (which is actually less than the general population, not more). 

      The biggest thing needed is actual fidelity to the Catholic faith, which can heal those with excessive desires of the flesh if they are repentant and want to change, but in many cases alot of these abusing priests are typically and bit hit and miss with their theology as well.  The standards for men becoming priests have been very lax since the 60’s, but things are tightening up now, especially with the new rules that don’t allow those with homosexual tendencies to become priests.

      • Kosh103

        Cure homosexuality??? You cannont cure something that is not an illness but a natural state.

      •  Kosh, there are people that argue that promiscuity is a natural state as well.

      • Kosh103

        Not a very good dodge there. Are you going to argue against fact are you? Are you going to argue that homosexuality can be and should be cured?

      • Kosh, I don’t know if homosexuality can be cured – some people say it can.  Cure is probably not the right word, as homosexuality is a result of concupuscience – it’s not part of man’s original design.

      • Kosh103

        Well lucia given homosexuality has been around for as long as there has been a human race, I would have to disagree with your assessment of what is in mans makeup.

      • Big Bruv

        The good news here is that one can be cured from a stupid and idiotic devotion to Catholicism and religion in general. All that is needed is for the person suffering the illness to open their bloody eyes.

  • You don’t give up, do you Whale?  Like the Energiser Bunny, you just keep on and on and on and on, never mind that the whole coverup thing is in the past and relates to a certain type of priest and bishop and was the modus operandi for not only those in the Church at the time, but for the whole of society.

    It’s only been since the sex-abuse scandal fingering the Church in the last decade that’s actually changed how society at large expects child abuse to be dealt with – which is good – it should be dealt with very harshly.  For it used to be that people though the children were to blame and that if you removed the abuser from the child, it would all be fine or if you gave the abuser “treatment”, they would be cured.  And the silly men of the Church did what secular psychologists told them to do; nevermind that we have millenia of knowledge of man and sin to know that this wouldn’t work.

    But this insistance that this coverup is still going on – do you have any evidence that this is the case?

    • Rodger T

      Your blind devotion to the church is admirable, but like all catholics don`t let the reality of the churches protection of its paedophile clergy burst the bubble of your delusion.
      The little weasel you call pope is at the heart of the coverup,his signature well documented on official correspondence.
      Had the church handed these criminals over to the proper authorities when the situation demanded,this whole fiasco could have been averted.

      • Alex

        Well put. 

        Don’t forget that if Lucia Maria and his ilk had put the energy that they spend attacking those who dare mention the abuse, and instead focussed it on demanding accountability and adequate protections, who knows how less victims there would be. 

        No instead LM attacks WO for not repeating the official propaganda that this abuse was all those evil homosexuals’ fault.  The continued repetition of that line shows just how that RC Church continues to not accept responsibility, and how they quite cynically play to prejudice in total contravention of Jesus’ teachings.  The Pope should have resigned; the RC Church should stop paying lawyers and personal investigators to engage in dirty tricks to coerce victims from seeking justice.

        I’ve yet to had it explained to me why these evil homosexuals are not also abusing children in other churches to the extent that has happened in ther RC Church.  Is there something that attracts homosexuals to the Catholic priesthood and not the ministries in other denominations?  Is it that Catholics have more homosexuals among them?    Hardly. 

        The problem resides in the perverse creed that one can only serve God in His ministry by being celibate, that sex and women are inherently evil and a hinderance; that foresaking personal and family relationships is the price of being a priest, and that all sexual feelings must be repressed.  If that is one’s moral framework, then is it any surprise the catholic priesthood attracts men who are imbalanced.

      •  Alex and Rodger,

        The current Pope reformed the system so that all sexual abuse had to be reported to the Vatican; beforehand only sex crimes that occurred within the confessional had to be reported, all other sex crimes were deemed to be in the jurisdiction of the local bishop and more critically, the local police who should always be informed by the victims at the very least. 

        I would never rely on the group who the abuser is part of in to inform the police.  Surely that would be self-evident no matter who the group is, be it church, scouts or your local swimming club.

        Most of the sex abuse perpetrated by priests on those under the age of 18 has been homosexual in nature (approx 80% perpetrated against teenage boys).  Those are the figures for the US.  What other organisation is as big as the Catholic Church so that coherent figures of that nature can be gathered?  Well, there’s teachers in the US, where it was found the child abuse rates were 100 times worse than the priestly abuse rates (see http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2010/apr/10040101).  Child abusers are naturally going to be drawn to those professions where it’s easier to abuse children – but we don’t really hear about that, do we?

        So all this blaming the abuse on celibacy when a group (teachers) who don’t have to be celibate are 100x worse is totally missing the point – it’s not celibacy that is causing sex abuse.

        Since the scandals have come out in the open, many policies have come into place that don’t allow the priests to be alone with children.  Confessional doors now are glass and the priests make sure they get changed after Mass when the altars servers are long finished.  I’m actually far more worried about what is going on at my teenager’s school than the local church, what with all the sleep overs they keep doing.

    • Big Bruv

      Oh…so we have the Catholic church to thank for the way society now views child abuse do we?
      Never mind that they covered it up for decades, never mind that they church still does it’s best to avoid paying out compensation to the thousands of people whose life has been destroyed by the dirty priests.

      Frankly Lucia your attempt to paint the evil Catholic church in a good light over child sexual abuse is pathetic, to even suggest that society only sees it as a bad thing now that the dirty Catholic church has held it’s hand up is sickening.

      Society has always been against child sexual abuse, the fact that society see’s it as abhorrent has nothing at all to do with the Catholic Church.

      • So, why do we need a sex-offender’s register?  Because paedophiles get slapped with a wet bus ticket and then let out again, if they get jailed at all, that’s why.

  • ConwayCaptain

    Why are Catholic priest celibate??  It is nothing to do with the teachings of Christ ornfrom the Old Testament.

    Catholic priests in the beginning were married and the Church found that when they died they had a problem.  The wife and children wanted to stay in the house provided and get money from the church.  Oh Dear so they cobbled this idea of celibact together and they have had it ever since.  Not forgetting however that in medieval times in the days of thye Medici, Borgias etc the Papacy was passed down through the family.

    Blessing on you my son!!!!

    • Catholic priests are celibate because Jesus was celibate.  The first priests who were married did not act as married men – they practised continence.  Any married man therefore who wanted to become a priest needed his wife’s permission.  By the middle ages there were more than enough young celibate men willing and able to become priests, so married men were no longer accepted.  Now that Anglicans are converting over we are getting the occasional married priest again.

      • Kosh103

        Actually it was a self serving move made by a Pope.