Why it is hard to take churches seriously

The Telegraph

This time it is the Anglicans. They haven’t worked out that the world won’t end if they have women bishops. Better than covering up the buggering of little boys though.

Historic plans to allow women to become bishops have been plunged into crisis after existing bishops voted through an eleventh-hour concession to traditionalists.

Campaigners for women in the episcopacy in the Church of England are considering whether to vote the plan down themselves, with some privately condemning it as a “compromise too far”.

Others say that the concession would give legal status to the view that women bishops would carry a “taint”.

Yet traditionalists also voiced disappointment at the measure, which they said falls far short of the assurances they say they need, and warned the Church is facing a “terminal” crisis.

It comes after the Church’s House of Bishops met behind closed doors in York to give its approval to the long-awaited legislation.

In theory it clears the way for a landmark vote at the Church’s General Synod in July to ordain women as bishops.


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  • Notrotsky

    If you can have a ginga bishop why shouldn’t women be ordained ?

  • emmaus

    They can, here, as Bishops and prioests.  This is just the silly poms.

  • Mitch

    I had a hard time taking Christianity seriously at the age of 12, nothing’s changed 18 years on. Amazing what you can get away with if your herd of sheep is big enough.

    • Bob

      The same is true of all ideologies, philosophies, political and cultural movements. Common denominator? Lazy fundamentalist humans who prefer to be told what to think and do, rather than take personal responsibility for their thoughts and actions.

      • Andrew Carrot

        If I wasn’t for the fact that i’m an arms dealer i’d say “ban religion!” 

  • Harvey

    You know that “reclaim sunday morning” campaign that’s going round aimed at binge drinkers? The same slogan could be aimed at church goers as well.
    The average church session lasts about as long and hurts about as much as a good hangover, and like hangovers is perfectly avoidable.

    • Andrew Carrot

      Homer always has a hang-over when he’s forced to go to church on Sundays; he suffers doubly as a consequence..

  • Andrei

    Woman “Bishops” is just another heresy being foisted upon the Anglican Church as it tries to appease the world and lapses into irrelevance 

    • Polishpride

      Love it when bible bashers ignore the teahings of Jesus and hide behind the good book to discriminate against others. Just awesome.

      • Rodger T

        `aint that the truth.

      • Stephen

        You got the first part right ! But hiding behind the good book ? Don’t think so pal.

    • carpentaro

      The “Church” is adapting to “world” standards. This makes the difference between the two less and less noticable and distinct. 
      Secularization of the “Church”? It has been going on for centuries.
      A remnant shall remain. 

  • grumpy

    Any thought that women should be Bishops is immediately dashed when you look at the Bishop of Christchurch, Victoria Matthews – a Canadian import brought in purely to show how “cute” and “with it” the local Anglicans were.
    Now she’s destroyed their Cathedral………..

    • Random66

      I’m sorry I must have misread your comment, who destroyed their Cathedral??  My mistake I thought it was the earthquake…

      • Andrew Carrot

        It was God via his earthquake thank you very much!

      • grumpy

        Earthquake only damaged it, despite world experts by the score claing it can be saved, she refuses to release her engineering report and wants it down regardless.

        Her excuse – it’s only a building……

      • Kimbo

         @ grumpy

        “Her excuse – it’s only a building……”

        And irrespective of her gender, she’d be right. (And let’s go fundamentalist with our sources! – Acts 7:48-50)

        “However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men. As the prophet (Isaiah 66:1) says:

        “Heaven is my throne,

        and the earth is my footstool.

        What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will
        my resting place be? Has not my hand made all these things?”.”

        And the guy who quoted that ended up dying a martyr for his troubles.

        Sounds like the Bish has got off lightly so far. Whether you are an
        atheist, agnostic, or Christian who reflects on the fulI revelation and
        teaching of Scripture – it’s just a building! The worship of the people
        who congregated there sanctified it – not the other way around. Not a $
        from tax payers to restore it!

    • Grumpy

      But….It’s supposed to be covered by insurance???????????

  • George

    If you can’t take churches seriously, try taking God seriously. He’s revealed in the same book you get your Daily Proverb from. We all seem to suffer from some degree to the “Gimme two dollars worth of God, and 100 bucks worth of what I think”

    It never worked before and it won’t work now.

    • Blokeintakapuna

      It does for “Bishop” Tamaki though…

    • Andrew Carrot

      “$2 worth of God and $100 of what I think” is a recent, insigthful but not complete reversal of what the Christian Church has exercised for most of its history.

      Even within that ratio, the “$2 of what I think” would get you into trouble, esp if you were on the wrong side of an Inquisition, Crusade or Southern Baptist burning. These days you can really only get offside with US evangelicals, Bishop Tamaki and the ex-Hitler Youth member in the Vatican.

      • George

        Andrew, because the pendulem swung into heresy one way during the past why is it not possible for it to be swinging too far the other direction now?

    • Rodger T

      Which god?  This one?

  • Russell Belding

    Now lets see here WO. No-one in Team Anglican said anything about the world ending if they ordained women or did not ordain them. No one today as far as we know has abused little boys. Only WO is on his pet topics again. Abusing children and “why the churches are declining”.

    Don’t discuss or explain any details WO (“to explain is to lose”) just poke fun. I support the topic of ordaining women in the church. I also respect the case my Catholic and Anglican cousins have for not ordaining them.We have differetn valueations of different parts of our Christian tradition. Likely the world won’t end if either of us changes our mind on the topic. We also won’t die in ditches, I hope.

    On the topic of abusing children we all abhore this and most churches now have  policies of “report these directly to the police as churches have made horrible mistakes in the near past”. 

    WO you do a great job in explaing and detailing the sins of shonky business people such as Matt B. Details are plenty. But in presenting ridicule against those who differ from you on church polity (how they do church admin) you resort to quick quips. Its OK however as we in the churches need reminders that the world mostly does not give a toot about older historical fusses between churches. One way to be irrelevant is to live in the past.

    • Andrew Carrot

      Yet the past is not irrevelant, if it was most religions wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. For most Christians, who rely on the compiled writings of Hebrew scholars who started their musings well before 0BC, giving credence to what occured in the distant past defines their present-day existence – and relevance. So, applying your logic, being a God-botherer is irrevalent in today’s world. Long have I waited for a dedicated church-goer to write that!

      • Russell Belding

        I should have adde to “one way to be irrelevant is to live in the past” the extra ” … and one way to be irrelvant is to ignore the past”. Your compalint against Hebrew/Christain writing is “because they are old they are ancient and not relevant” is streched thin Andrew. The big-bang” which, but most estiamtes, was between 3 and 5 billion years agon has indeed defined many of the parameters of our present day existence.

        Am I a “god-botherer”? Yes that is even encouraged in Scripture. Prayer, its called. Good comments Andrew!

  • Harry Young

    Christianity is going the same way as Thor, Zeus, Horus, Sun-gods, Moon worship, rain dancing, ancester worship etc. etc. etc. and all the other superstitions fabricated by primative people with no science, to try to rationalise the world and control each other.
    C of E ordaining or not ordaining women is so irrelevent, I don’t know why I’m even typing this.
    The only positive about Christianity (except a few Americans), is that it’s got past its ‘kill everyone who disagrees’ stage, unlike a large portion of Islam.

  • Barry

    “Equality” has ruined many other organisations – social clubs and sports clubs and things like the Boys Scouts and the Girl Guides. I happen to feel that males and females are different and I just cant understand the thinking that everywhere has to have males and females in equal proportion.
    The Anglican church has only recently tried to keep everyone happy (you cant – all you do is piss off as many as you make happy) by bringing in women priests and bishops and gay priests.
    I think that if females and gays dont like what the anglican church rules are then they should fuck off and form their own church.

  • Gaz

    Hey WO, regarding sexual abuse of children – how do your SDA mates regards the mess going on in their own church?  I mean if a bunch of conservative SDA families, totally isolated from the evil influence of the outside world can’t get it right, how do you expect the Anglican/Catholic/(insert organisation of choice) to?

    People are the problem.  Fallen, rotten, sinful people.  And you find them everywhere – across all “races”, religions, non-religions (whatever) – even amongst the teaching fraternity.

    But hey, carry on with your little crusades.

  • Gaz

    WO – you’re such a lightweight.

    No serious analysis of the theological arguments that underpin the orthodox teaching across the Protestant denominations.

    No, just some silly quips.

    Anyway, why do you care what the Anglicans do?  Or the Catholics? or whomever?  How does that affect you?

    Do you stand for freedom, or not?

  • LesleyNZ

    When we die we will know the truth …………………………………………….

    • Roland

       Quite agree LesleyNZ, when I was pre teenage, and quite a good singer, some one from the Church came around to our house and asked if I could be an Alter Boy, Mum got Dad to the door and I heard some small discussion and then the door was slammed shut, it was never mentioned again, my Father wouldn’t go to the Church and as he was a Freemason back then, I suspect he knew something that we didn’t. We had 3 Bibles in the house and he knew them quite well. I never heard him say a swear word in his lifetime and I am assuming that he had made a promise of some sort when he narrowly avoided death as a WW2 Fighter Pilot… Interesting to hear him hum ‘Onward Christian Soldiers’ as I lay there with him on his deathbed. I am still getting letters from the Sallies and Woman’s Refuge and Ronald McDonalds house etc., thanking him for his previous kind donations and requesting more, this is 8 years after his death…

  • Rodger T

    When we die ,Lesley,we become like gods we cease to exist.

  • RM

    Man walking the streets in Dublin comes across a little boy crying.

    What’s the matter, asks the man.

    Me mammy died, says the little boy.

    Would you like me to call a priest? asks the man.

    No, says the boy, I don’t feel like sex at the moment.