Just fix it

NZ Herald

John Key says the National Standards data is ropey…so what…fix it and fix it fast and get it out there in league tables. Unless you set the required standards and expectations the data is always going to be ropey because the teacher unions will ensure it remains ropey:

National standards data provided by schools is too “ropey” to show parents how well a school is doing in reading, writing and maths and may not be released this year, the Prime Minister says.

Data the Ministry of Education had received from schools was “patchy”, making it difficult to create anything coherent for parents and needed more time, John Key said at a post-Cabinet press conference yesterday.

“This year, I think the data will be too ropey,” he said.

The National Government introduced the national standards policy during its first term in office.

Mr Key said the Minister of Education told him data was not up to scratch – “it’s extremely patchy and in different formats and that will make it very difficult to interpret – but over time the Government hopes it will be more consistent because the purpose of having information is to give parents a better sense of how their school is performing”.



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  • BeaB

    Doesn’t say much for our primary school principals and teachers if they can’t even put together reliable data – even with the nationally normed tests available to them, that they have been using for years.
    How can parents feel at all confident about their children’s progress?
    I suspect the NZEI opposition to every kind of public scrutiny is because they know primary schools can’t stand up to it. Our EIGHT years of expensive primary schooling may turn out to be a very poor spend of taxpayer money.
    It’s time we knew the truth!

    • Neil

      Oh wait – maybe they’re spending their time teachin’ – shit we can’t have that – get on with those reports guys – sort out where your priorites are – are you there to teach or file urgent government reports- whose paying you after all!!!

      • grumpy

        Parents are paying them – start performing!

      • parorchestia

         They don’t work all the time – I tried to contact a local primary school but had no luck. It is holiday time.

    • frustrated

      For a start, results from nationally normed tests do not translate to national standards – the former is standardised and the latter standards-based.
      A poor spend of taxpayer money?
      Do your homework.

  • Johnbronkhorst

    Perhaps being threatened with sack, for deliberately sabotaging the data, (as would happen in any other job). Might motivate them.

    • Neil

      The threat of losing one’s job is never a good incentive to get better outcomes – no matter what industry you’re talking about.

      • Johnbronkhorst

        OH yes it is!!!!!!!!

      • johnopkb

        Bloody well is, where on earth have you worked that it isn’t?

  • It can’t be fixed.

    Least of all by government.

    Government never fixes anything.

    Government fucks up everything it touches.

    That so many NZers still believe that (socialist) government can bring them utopia (and school their kids) tells you just how fucked this country really is.

    Until this “government is god” syndrome has run its course, NZ will not get better, and our schools will continue to collapse into the black hole of political indoctrination.

    • Neil

      Unlike you Red – I still have “faith” it will get better – I trust that sense will prevail. Just not sure how soon.

    • Blokeintakapuna

      …and that’s exactly why National need to stomp out the unions – in a nice way.
      Make them collect and administer their own union fees – making the unions accountable to their members.

      Four steps ahead… – the unions would loose huge amount of members due to not being able to provide much by way of value. Huge loss of income, scant revenue to pass onto the Labour Party = even bigger cluster-fuck in-fighting between unions & Labour Party. Which all bodes well for the education sector, NZ Inc and the NZ political scene too! 

      • Neil

        I’m missing something Bloke – in what situation is the threat is losing your job a good way to make your employees work – staff morale not in your vocab? I’ve found you get way better response and productivity by incentives like earned bonuses and encouragement than threats.

    • Ronnie Chow

       Now , now ….here’s your rattle back  , redback …

  • Pin

    Is that Redbaiter…..or the teacher “Master” baiter?

  • Allyson

    It don’t matter if data is good or bad because once you start to measure performance you will get an improvement in both the performance you measure, and in the collection of that data.

    • johnopkb

      Yep, start to report it and they will be clamouring to be at the top…

    • jonno1

      Quite right Allyson. Data is one of the few things that defies the principle of increasing disorder, or entropy, and improves over time (provided the data is not falsified – think climate change models!).

      • Mediaan

        Rubbish. Digital data is malleable.

        Example. The Copyright Act 1994 enables archived news to be edited and deleted selectively, because the news publisher now “owns” it. So any fascist set of thugs have only to get into government via a news organisation and they can rewrite the archives to “explain” how they came to power (because of the love of the people).

        Example. You vote yourself and a bunch of rent-brains into control of an association that owns a scientific and distinguished database. You delete everything you don’t like and change a few authorships to exclude your enemies’ work and create new “peer-reviewed” studies by those accomplices you want in research jobs.

      • jonno1

        I think I mentioned the risk of falsification Mediaan, so – we agree! You even support my climate change example. Screenshots and Google cache are great tools for online stuff.

  • Phronesis

    How hard is it to have a nationally standardised test in something like maths. Even better find a standardised test from 30 years ago and give it to the kids today. Compare results with 30 years ago. 

    • Teachersrock

      “Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” 
      ― Albert Einstein
      That is why the idea of standardised testing is plain stupid. 

      • Cynical

        The problem here is that we are not comparing fish against birds (or monkeys / whatever), we are comparing children against other children. If they want to succeed in the world they all need to be able to read, write and do math – and currently too many are leaving school unable to do this.

      • Johnbronkhorst

        Irrelevant to the subject at hand.

      • Nakiteach

        No it is not John. It is very relevant to the conversation at hand. But I am not surprised having seen your other posts how you would not understand this. 

      • Nakiteach

        @665627d4dda7bf58514930412845d10d:disqus You will find that the truth is, there is no where near as many as Key is claiming. 

  • SJ00

    Min of Ed is partially responsible for this mess here, they let the schools get away with too much. They should ask the schools to provide the data in a specific format and by a certain time. This data can then be dumped into a database and figures and stats pulled out for fun. Instead it seems the schools are sending data in whichever format they like and the Min of Ed have to muck around with it too much. I did some contracting there about 8 years ago and spent a year trying to get the schools (and more importantly the software companies that provide the programs to the schools) to report data in 1 format and it was like pulling teeth.

    • AnonWgtn

      I am aware that some so called teachers deliberately skewed their results so that they are not compatible.

  • When will you guys understand that the left have gradually assumed control of all of our public institutions???

    And ruined them. Made them primarily political units for the advancement of socialism.

    There is no longer any future in public services.

    They cannot be fixed.

    Forget it. You’re flogging a horse that’s been dead for a couple of decades.

    The coming economic crisis will clean up the mess.

    Anything else is just window dressing.

  • BeaB

    The ERO report shows primary schools are out of their depth when it comes to valid assessments.
    We have a choice of excellent NZ standardised tests (eg ASTLE, PAT) that schools have used for years. They should have to send in their results year by year and the statistics per level, per school (and nationally) then collated in a publishable form by professionals who know what they are doing.
    The ERO report shows a lack of leadership and knowledge so let experts deal with the data and let us, the paying public, see how primary schools are doing. Good or bad, it’s better than trying to keep it all secret in the hope that parents are all fools.
    The sky hasn’t fallen in on high schools who have had years of being ranked publicly on their results.

  • Teachersrock

    Well done schools. Keep doing what you are doing, then when we get a Labour government back in we will be rid of the worthless National Standards. 

    • gazzaw

      Labour won’t have the gonads to make an election issue out of it.

      • Teachersrock

        They have already promised to ditch NS. 

      • Karlos

        I hope they have a mandate first……

      • Teachersrock

        If they are able to form a government, they have as much a mandate to get rid of these worthless standards as National has for gutting NZ of its assets.

    • Johnbronkhorst

      get rid of idiot teachers like you, who don’t understand the basics of achievement, MUST start with measurement, measurement must have a STANDARD to measdure against. Teachers have too often measured students ability against their own incompitance

      • Nakiteach

        Full of lies and nonsense tonight I see John. 

      • Karlos

        Kosh, I didn’t know you were from the Naki

      • frustrated

        John, do you have any background in education or measurement on which to base your diatribe? My guess is no. Walk a mile in a teacher’s shoes before you try and tell them how to do their job for goodness’ sake. The information fed to the public by the Government, and the media, is little more than propaganda, but for some reason people continue to swallow it without question, and continue to feel the need to use it to create scapegoats and bash certain sectors of society. Teachers and Principals are the scapegoats of the moment, that’s all. Lastly, a word of advice: When espousing contentious views on education, beware of spelling-related accidental irony.

  • PauliePaul

    Well done schools my arse!  Well done for what?  Muddying the waters.   Carry on like this and the only solution will be a National Testing regime.  Then all the NZEI gimps will be crying!  Where is the open and honest transparency in education.  

    • Nakiteach

      That is what National wanted at the start of all this NS rubbish. There were plans a foot right at the very start for nation wide testing along the lines of the UK. Thankfully the MoE actually stood up for kids for a change and kept it from happening. 

      NS and tables do NOTHING to help kids who are failing. You want to do something National, then create classes within schools for the struggling, where there are no more than 6 kids. Small focused teaching, that would go a long way. More so than the current right wing driven failed overseas nonsense. 

      • Johnbronkhorst

        BULLSHIT, you can NEVER achieve a target without a standard to measure against to see if you are achieving it. Teachers have been setting goals to benefit and hide their own incompitance.

      • Nakiteach

        You can have a target that takes into account that kids learn at different speeds, don’t all learn in the same way etc… You know, good sound targets that are designed to help education not harm it the sort we have in the NZ Curriculum. As opposed to one size, we all learn the same way at the same speed targets like NS or the type of standardised test that has caused the US and UK to go crashing down the world educational rankings. 

        And I would wager that you are just another wanker who believes the nonsense that comes out of Keys mouth, a man who has as much knowledge of good educational practice as a lump of very dense rock. 

  • parorchestia

    With an illiteracy rate of 20% who is like a rock –  teachers or JK?