Comment of the Day

Liberty Scott left this long comment yesterday.

It is a very good commentary on Colin Craig and his dog-whistling on marriage equality:

Most of all, why should any adult give a damn what two other adults do in their private lives with each other’s bodies?

So much that is wrong about the post-modernist culture of moral equivalency, identity politics and victimhood politics, so many good targets for conservative politicians around welfare, around education, around a vacuous culture of celebrating mediocrity, of sneering at individual success, of celebrating group identity and ancestry over individual achievement, of denying responsibility for one’s actions and of treating humanity as a disease rather than a species of enormous achievement and potential.

He could damn Islam, but no he hasn’t he courage to do that.  He could damn Maori mysticism and collectivist identity politics that has bred a generation demanding entitlement, accusing their actions on what happened to their ancestors and promoting faux pride on ethnicity not achievement.   He could damn a welfare state and centralised education system that promotes the idea that people who succeed do so at the cost of those who don’t, and those who don’t succeed or make foolish decisions should be bailed out by everyone else, time and time again.  He could really start to damn the results of decades of welfarism, structuralism (the people abuse their kids because of poverty or cultural oppression) and radical feminist denial of the importance of fatherhood, all in ways that raise questions without baiting the collective left.

No, he prefers ot churn out cheap unscientific stereotypes and to focus his attention on what consenting adults who haven’t initiated force against anyone else, do with their lives.

He doesn’t have evidence that proves he is right, but most importantly even if it WAS right, who cares?  What does he want the state to do?  Should the criminal justice system focus on abused boys more than girls?

Like the shaman conman Brian Tamaki and the unspeakably vile hypocritical creep Capill, Craig is obsessed with gay sex.

The last generation of his ilk said, when I was 16, that Homosexual Law Reform would result in an AIDS epidemic in NZ and thousands of boys being corrupted by men – oddly enough it didn’t turn me, or anyone I know to be gay.  He’s wrong now, and those who want a new Conservative Party need only look back in 1996 when the last really formidable effort to have such a party fell short – because it was vulnerable on this one issue.


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  • maninblack

    that is very well said. well done.

  • “It is a very good commentary on Colin Craig and his dog-whistling on marriage equality”

    Sorry, I disagree. Whether it is a “very good commentary”or not is a subjective viewpoint, I say its just more of the poorly framed Progressive rubbish.

    For one thing, “equality” has nothing to do with it, and the constant use of this term is merely another propaganda ploy.

    Liberty Scott is one of the Libertarian freak show, a fringe group of viciously intolerant secular progressives who get about 800 votes every election. Colin Craig got close to 60,000.

    Scott should take his Marxist inspired crap over to Not PC.

    • The irony of being called viciously intolerant by someone who engages so quickly in ad-hominem attacks is missed on you Redbaiter.  Especially when you, by observation, agree with 90% of what I write.  Your usual claim that I’m Marxist inspired is always hilarious, since I’ve yet to find a Marxist who embraces laissez-faire capitalism who places individual rights above anything else.  However, your intellectual arsenal doesn’t comprise arguing the actual point, but this time appears to be into counting heads – Labour did better than Colin Craig, so it must be even MORE right than Colin Craig. 

      You missed the point.  I honestly believe Conservatives have a useful contribution to political discourse on a wide range of issues, and I’d be happy for there to be a moderately successful “Conservative” party in NZ that did that, not least because it would supplant the gutter Muldoonist socialism of Winston First. 

      However, attempts to successfully do this have failed before because of weakness on this very issue.  A weakness the liberal left knows only too well because it knows the liberal right agrees with it – bigotry against homosexual men.  I don’t expect Craig to change his personal views, but what idiot dares to express the implicit view that gay men are victims and can be cured?  If he simply said, I’m not gay, I don’t understand it and my religious beliefs are not consistent with it, but it’s not the state’s business what consenting adults do on private property then he would neuter this issue and make it harder to take his party on.

      For if he thinks differently from that, then he deserves to be called out for it and decried for wanting the state to be totalitarian (and let’s be clear, state regulation of consensual adult sexual activity on private property IS totalitarian).

      On gay marriage it should be easy.  Yes no law should force any church or any marriage celebrant to be obliged to participate in same sex marriage (or any marriage).  Yes, churches should feel free to say no to it.  However, if two consenting adults want the same legal rights as another two consenting adults, why should the state discriminate?

      • Random66

        “’s not the state’s business what consenting adults do on private property..'”

        I don’t think anybody disputes this point, so long as they function within the law, however it does in fact become the state’s business when you are looking to make a law change.  The issue here is legally redefining marriage, not the sexual act between two or more consenting adults.  Do you not think society should be able to have a voice which inturn can instruct state of their want before any law changes are made?  After all this law change will potentially enable all parties currently excluded by the current system to be bound together by marriage, including polyamorous relationships.  So are you promoting this equality for all parties??

      • James Stephenson

        I agree 100% but that isn’t really what the argument is about. The argument is whether there is something special enough about a one-of-each pair, with the potential to create children, that it deserves a word of its own to describe it.

        From all the utterances I’ve heard from the proponents of this bill, it is all about telling society that they have to think of all paired relationships as equal and equivalent. Legislating what people must think about a subject…can we call that totalitarian?

      • Polish_pride

        And theres your post of the day for tomorrow…

  • J_j

    Marx had a view on homosexual marriage?

  • Phronesis

    It was a crap comment yesterday and it’s still a crap comment today.

    “Most of all, why should any adult give a damn what two other adults do in their private lives with each other’s bodies?”
     – Um your about thirty years to late for that debate, we are talking about the public institution of Gay marriage.

    – Yes there are more interesting Conservative policies to talk about but as usual the agenda is set by the media. Got any traction on talking about Your political viewpoints in the media? Thought not. Craig is simply answering the questions the media asks and raising his profile when given the chance, like any good politician.

  • Bunswalla

    I don’t agree with Colin Craig on some topics, including this one, but what business is it of L Scott’s or anyone else what he chooses to comment on? If he wants to get on a soapbox and preach about whatever spins his wheels then why should L Scott give a damn? The hypocrisy of his position clear for all to see.

    NB: I’m not criticising Scott for holding a position or speaking about it – but he’s criticising Craig for speaking about gay marriage and not any of the other topics he would prefer Craig to have an opinion on.

    • Dr Wang

      “Free speech for everybody!” (…except Colin Craig).

      • Polish_pride

        I call BS on that Colin Craig is exercising his free speech to say what he thinks on the issue. Liberty Scott is exercising his free speech to say what he thinks about the issue itself and what Colin Craig has said on the issue. Where’s the problem!?!  

  • Neil

    Sounds a bit like Jacinda Adern not being allowed to speak about raising children to me. You don’t have to experience it to be an expert in any field these days – just Google it….LOL!!

  • FoodTechie

    I like your thinking.

  • starboard

    Good on Colin Craig , all power to the man. Hope he runs the screaming vile masses of queers outa town. No marriage equality for you ya deviates.

  • LesleyNZ

    And when the homosexual law reform bill was passed many years ago Former MP George Gair said to my husband – that is it – nothing to worry about that is as far as it will go. Male gay sex is pretty gross really. Every political party has its skeletons Liberty Scott – if you understand human nature and the human heart you will know why. Looks like the next election will be one where values and morals are an issue – at least for me and a lot of my friends and acquaintances. I voted National/National last time.

  • Agent BallSack

    I think its hilarious all the wastage of good porn surfing time being used on this subject. Let gays marry, in 30 years there will be no gays left because it so freaking passé. Beatles were famous once too. And guys/girls, arguing with redbaiter is like cutting your own balls off so you can have mountain oysters for dinner.

  • Mr_Blobby

    It is not that important that, the situation, has to change immediately. The World won’t stop turning and the sun will come up tomorrow.
    I think if it is not possible to have a rational and reasonable, not to mention civilized conversation on the subject then maybe the time is not right and we should not have it.
    In short it is not that important.