Key says Maori King is wrong

John Key has come out and pointed out to the illiterate truck driver who masquerades as a King that he is wrong over water:

Prime Minister John Key says King Tuheitia’s claim that Maori have always owned New Zealand’s water is “just plain wrong”.

All the advice the Government has received is that the common-law position that no one owns the water stands, he told the Weekend Herald yesterday.

“I just don’t believe there is anything we are doing that is legally or morally wrong.

“We are following the best advice, and advice we believe is established in law, albeit that the law is embryonic is this area.”

He said there was no reason for Maori water rights issues to delay the sale of Mighty River Power shares.

“It’s a Treaty partner relationship between Maori and the Crown, it’s not an issue between Mighty River Power and Maori.”

Anyone who thought the sale of Mighty River shares and Maori rights were linked would have to believe that Maori could not register their interests and rights in waters used by Contact Energy, a company that had been 100 per cent sold.

“I’ll bet you those iwi don’t agree with that proposition.”

National is consulting with greedy Maori, mostly so that they can claim in the ensuing court case that they did everything they could to discuss these issues.

This is, I believe, a flawed plan.

National are banking on a win in court. I wouldn’t be so sure of that. The courts are stacked with activists Judges and the Chief Justice Dame Sian Elias is a flunky of the previous government who I understand likes to conduct her own judicial activism by way of her husband and their not inconsequential funds which find their way from time to time into the hands of various political parties of the left.

Entering court is fraught with danger for the government.

I think what we are going to eventually see is a necessary legislative change but not before we see an election, possibly and early one, fought over this issue that will be divisive politically but should deliver a stable government with a mandate that cannot be questioned.

A tipping point has been reached. By and large most Kiwis are fair minded and believe that there were serious Maori grievances, some, precious few remain. However the goodwill has evaporated with a resurgant and apparently rapacious and emboldened Maori seeking to grab even more.

So far Treaty settlements have poured more than $1,780,000,000 into Maori coffers and still they want more. Successive governments have acted in good faith and with genuine goodwill. I believe that has now come to an end.

As Matthew Hooton points out in his column in the NBR, this isn’t going to end anytime soon:

Be aware, this thesis is backed by a newspaper column’s worth of research.  With a few million dollars of legal aid, Russell McVeagh, Chapman Tripp, Bell Gully, Buddle Findlay or Donna Hall will be able to construct a far more powerful argument designed to ultimately be accepted by a majority of the Supreme Court.

Appeasement never worked for Neville Chamberlain and now it appears that it hasn’t worked for the New Zealand population. Difficult times are ahead.


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  • viking

    As long as Maori and thier sympathsisers are the largest group in Parliament then it will continue. Warned about it two elections ago. Like muslims once a Maori always a Maori

    • kehua

      Unfortunately for you viking, once a fuckwit always a fuckwit, I do believe that I am being generous as other descriptions did come to mind.

      • Greg

        kehua get back on you canoe and gor back to raro.

  • logical

    They can still paddle their canoe or have a drink of water if they want to. Nothing has been taken away.
    Therefore no settlement is warranted !

  • Mr_Blobby

    Maori who. I don’t remember anyone asking me, or giving me voting rights, on who should be King. Given that in this age of entitlement where the Maori elite expect the Government to fund all there grievance claims. How much does the New Zealand Government pay for our local self appointed Royalty. I can’t for one minute believe that the Maori Elite fund it themselves.

  • Key has to say more than “he is wrong”.

    He has to say that there is only one class of citizen in NZ, one country, one government, one law and one flag.

    And he should have been saying it long ago.

    • Mr_Blobby

      Your right Reb but I was surprised that DonKey went as far as he did.

    • Look at your profile pic you racist fuckwit

      • Greg

        Get you hand off it and wake up to the REAL world.

    • Greg

      Only thing is Redbaiter key will no doubt back down as he always does.

    • blazer

      and one point of view,one way of life,one religion,one party,and of course one voice of reason.

  • Alex

    The whole “ownership” debate is retarded by both sides’, and the media’s, inability to realise that “ownership” at common law is not a monolith concept. A person can have ownership, in the sense of legal title, but that ownership subject to various rights and interests to use the land etc held by other people. Some times the rights and interests held by others may be so great as to effectively render the legal title an empty shell.

    I saw the Josie Pagani comment yesterday, and she too exhibits an misunderstanding of what “ownership” means. Mighty River doesn’t “own” any water; it may have legal rights to use the water for the purposes of generating electricity. But even so, a minority shareholding in Mighty River doesn’t mean that the shareholders somehow “own” Mighty Rivers’ rights to use the water, let alone own the water. The share’s merely mean they own a portion of the capital in Mighty River, and rights to receive any dividends.

    So to say that the sale of minority shareholdings in Mighty River et al interferes with Maori rights over the water is nonsense. And even if it is found that at common law an iwi has rights over the water used by Mighty Power and that those rights are compromised by Mighty River’s use, then the Government will be legally liable to compensate the iwi.

    So this debate about who “owns” it is arid and a red herring.

    The Maori “King” [sic] is nothing more than the court Jester. By making this comment, he will turn public opinion against iwi water claims. If those claims can be established at common law — and I do not mean according to the warped logic applied by the Waitangi Tribunal — then we of the centre=right persuasion must support the Crown recognising those claims since the rule of law requires that property rights be respected or else adequate compensation given. And I do think that Maori have some very valid concerns about how effectively the Crown has been protecting our waterways from pollution.

    Leaving all that aside, what troubled me more, was the “King’s” [sic] remark that the co-management deal over the Waikato agreed with the Crown was “the best they could get at that time” and that the iwi would likely ask for greater control sometime in the future. To me this smacks of complete lack of good faith, and all political parties should make it a fundamental principle that “full and final settlements” mean just that.

    • Bunswalla

      Well said Alex, the court jester indeed. The only trouble with full and final settlement is not only does it seemingly allow for more under that settlement (witness Tainui and Ngai Tahu getting more because the “fiscal envelope” has been exceeded, but if you look back over the last 60 years or so you’ll find a number of “full and final settlements” that have turned out to be anything but.

    • Mr_Blobby

      “The Maori “King” [sic] is nothing more than the court Jester”
      How much are this court jester and his entourage costing the Tax Payer?

      “Maori have some very valid concerns about how effectively the Crown has been protecting our waterways from pollution.”
      I have some very valid concerns about how effectively Maori has been protecting and feeding there children, Maori crime statistics, Maori welfare dependency, Mental health statistics, General lifestyle choices.

  • Kevin Campbell

    “So far Treaty settlements have poured more than $1,780,000,000 into Maori coffers and still they want more.”
    According to John Robinson in his 2010 book Corruption of NZ Democracy the figure is circa $3.5 billion if the cost of the WT and cling-ons are included.

  • BJ

    When JK says “he is wrong” I do believe that JK can’t for the life of him understand – how after all recent negotiations on the part of the government in good faith – that the other party in that negotiating, Maori, can be so morally corrupt. This has gone way too far. The Treaty was a hurriedly drafted, few worded document that has been interpreted and misinterpreted ever since and the Government has been trapped into giving definitions and agreeing to perceived ‘principles’ from just a generalized agreement that can be argued forever infinitum.

    Having read and reread all versions of the Treaty document I come to 2 main conclusions.
    1. Neither Maori nor Crown back in 1840 had a clue about yet to be discovered resources and what their value meant in the future.
    2. The Crown had no intention of offering peace at that time with a cost of being held to ransom in the future.

    It was no more than a basic agreement that meant different things to each party, because the specifics were never agreed to and that now far too much is being read into.

  • Joe Bloggs

    Maori King = uppity truckie porch-nigger

    This racist tirade approved by Joris de Bres, 44-52 The Terrace, Wellington 6144

    • Troy

      Damn I thought Maori King = fucked up black bitch of the white supremists. But it’s ok to say that right?

  • Sir Cullen’s Sidekick

    I am waiting for my dear leader Sheep Shearer’s leadership in his issue. He will sort out all our problems

  • Seems to me

    Seems to me that the whole water usage debacle is stupid.
    Its gravity that gives the water energy as it “falls” thru the turbine blades.
    No water is “used” or consumed in the process… same amount comes out as goes in.

    Ergo they should be claiming for the use of gravity!

  • GAM

    For me the tipping point has well and truely arrived, any goodwill I had has evaporated.

    We should ditch the treaty, 160 years, 4 full and final settlements and still we are arguing the damm thing – enough is enough. To hell with “Peace in our time” where is our Churchill?

    For John and the National Party call them out on this, I think you will find a landslide of support on this.

  • Dave

    I note with a great deal of interest, the “TROUGHERS” hanging on to this Maori Gravy train called water rights. Many meetings to date, massive catering, much travel, 800 said to be at the latest meeting, where oh where is all the money coming from to fund this huge cost.

    Then what will Maori pay in legal fees etc, and the entire cost. I sincerely the Taxpayer is not contributing one cent towards this. I wonder how many applications were made for grants/handouts to attend these meetings. I sincerely hope parliament REJECT any expense claim from MP’s attending.

    Its of interest, that whenever there is a national or large Hui, Koru Club is full. Probably last minute expensive flights as well.

  • Tom,

    My Family forebearers arrived here in the 1850s and have been farming, living and working hard since then, all have been and we still are proud New Zealanders.
    Does this now indicate that with the PC-soft cock, brown nosing & ass licking that is going on with MA-OARY traditional rights that every Kiwi Bach Owner-Camper -Farm Owner- & Home owner who happens to owns a rain water tank for their personal use. Or goes to a stream to draw water: is going to get hassled by some unemployed-Retarded- scribble faced- half witted- bare assed , blue tongued inbred dole bludging asshole, for money on a regular basis. Or are we going to stop this in right its tracks, before it even gets off the ground. ( I am trying hard to say what I really feel)
    I am now in my 71st year and my mother god rest her, used to tell my brothers and sister and I on a regular basis that when we grow older, we we should be like the Dallies, etc. Any of us who were born in NZ should be voting on the maori roll : That way we all get treated the bloody same- It is really pissing me off.