Bludging – Oh Let Us Count The Ways

Whale army challenge. Today’s young people expect at age 25 to be able to afford a house and the Greens want to buy their vote.

They expect

– interest free student loans

– paid parental leave

– taxpayer “rent to buy” homes

– “working” for families

Add in the comments the other bludging welfare ideals now in the heads of these twerps.



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  • Patrick

    & you have the gall to call farmers bludgers, at least they produce.
    Take a look at the long haired, arse hanging out of their jeans, baseball caps on sideways youth of today & tell me what hope there is for little old NZ

  • SJ00

    They expect the latest gear as well.
    iPhone, iPads, Android Phones. And they expect to get the latest ones as soon as they are out.
    Worst people to fly on a plane with? iPhone users. The 2nd that plane hits the tarmac, out come the iPhones.

  • Pissedoffyouth

    I am disgusted with my peers. Lazy idiots who want everything and sacrifice nothing.

  • Cam I am going to go devils advocate here for a moment.

    This would be owing to the fact I have a student loan from previous study however out of that list and as a Social Liberal I do believe in the Paid Parental Leave.

    However WFF should be dropped in the first instant, if so Bill would get his surplus back that quick he wouldn’t know what to do with himself.

    But answering your question: “Today‚Äôs young people expect at age 25 to be able to afford a house and the Greens want to buy their vote.”

    Well here is an actual life story – mine in fact on first home.

    What did I expect from the State – nothing

    What did Rebekka (my wife) and I do for our first home which we just celebrated our first anniversary in: Save like hell and ran one heck “Dutch” budget for the time we saved for our deposit (helps Bekka was “harsh” with the budget”

    Result, at the age of 26 (myself) and 24 respectively we signed the final documents, paid the deposit and purchased our first home – a 3 bedroom do-up ex-army place in Papakura for $287,000.

    After renovations and landscaping we could flog it off today for $350,000 knowing the market – however we are here for the long term.

    Time when we go “Freehold” (mortgage gone) 8 years from now.

    So a quick recap: What did we expect from the State – nothing – what do we get from the state – well technically nothing although I do have my student loan which is being repaid faster than minimum repayments the IRD requires

    What did we do – work our collective arses off

    Reward – paying Auckland Council god damned rates :P – but serious – our own home :)

    • StupidDisqus

      What did we expect from the State – nothing – what do we get from the state – well technically nothing although I do have my student loan

      Crap: primary schooling, secondary schooling, at least half of tertiary costs, effective medical insurance, roading, ACC,… the list goes on!

      • And your issue with State Education and Healthcare while I was under 18?

        Also consider the taxpayer’s investment into my Tertiary Education that – an investment which I am repaying back not only through student loans but chasing higher end and paying jobs (which pays ironically more taxes)

        Just of note we have medical insurance for private healthcare currently

        I should be clear that when I said we expect nothing from the state – I am referring to the policies in place I could of used or The Greens proposed to “assist” me into my first house rather than doing the hard yards

        As for Roads, Education, Healthcare, ACC, Welfare if I get into the crap, police – it is not an “expectation” – it is a Social Contract I have with The State. I pay my taxes and exercise the vote and writing submissions, in return the State provides basic provisions given to ensure a minimum quality of life. If I want more than a minimum quality of life I have two ways of getting it – bludge or work – I chose work

        • StupidDisqus

          a Social Contract I have with The State

          in other words: communism.

    • Yoni

      I agree with everything you said. Whale currently there is paid parental leave for a portion of the population, it is called the dbb. Working families need assistance during the first year to have children, else the next generation will all come from singles mothers on the dbb.

      The country needs children from all socio economic groups and paid parental leave makes good “economic” senses in the long term

      Disclaimer, currently trying for kids and are DINK with a big mortgage and a well paid job

      • Hazards001

        Read my reply to Ben..covers you as well.

        • Yoni

          Read it, it seems you are not a net tax payer therefore someone is paying for your services that you will have in your lifetime, so your argument is does not stack up.

          Bens comments about a social contract are valid and btw I paid interest on my student loan in the one year it took me to pay it back

          The government pays for parental leave

          • Mr_V4

            “The government pays for parental leave”d

            Keep thinking … where does it get the money for that from?

          • Yoni

            They get it from the tax base which is funded predominantly by business and the net tax payers

            Without a new generation who is going to be the new nett tax payers.

            Am sure they could cut some other bullshit like expensive operations for people over 80. I am saying invest in the future

            Btw hazard I worked from age 15 and went to school and university with no help from my parents. I started a little business to pay my rent

          • Mr_V4

            Your premise that without all these subsidies there wouldn’t be a next generation is completely wrong.

            You are addressing symptoms not causes.

            Why is childcare so expensive to begin with, for a start look at all the bits of paper govt makes you have before you can be employed in the area. Then there is the paperwork for starting a childcare centre, all of this protects the large incumbents and the cost of hiring childcare workers.
            Ditto with housing, if we didn’t have highly restrictive land policy and wasteful councils pushing up land prices with green taliban ideas and over-the-top RMA, land prices would be lower, and who knows maybe Mum could afford to stay home with the kids for a couple of years if she wanted to.

          • Yoni

            I am only supporting the one subsidy in my post.

            A major reason for the cost you refer to is the housing affordability index which means the elder generation got free capital gain.

            No generation has been more screwed than mine, generational equity will be a hot topic in the future

            Tie the pension to cpi and extend the eligibility age.

          • Mr_V4

            a) CPI is a flawed measure.
            b) If everyone else just supports ‘one’ subsidy, you still have a lot of subsidies.
            c)Extending eligibility not always easy, at a certain point people can’t physically work.
            d) There is a paradox in the taxation system. In my opinion the taxation system should tax pure rent seeking more, and income from labour less, but routinely we do the opposite.

          • Yoni

            Valid points, and I thank you for them

          • Hazards001

            Good for you, I went to work at 15 to support my parent and my siblings. And then I spent the next 30 years working in dangerous shit holes too…ahhh never mind..but let me correct you on a couple of things. One the term “net taxpayer” is a load of bullswool..WTF does it mean? I have a job and am therefore an employee these days..I pay income tax through PAYE and I pay GST via any goods or services I choose to buy.

            In the past I have owned businesses and have paid GST and PAYE. What exactly is a net taxpayer? Sounds like a load of wanker gobbleygook to me.

            Next piece of rubbish you have spouted “The government pays for parental leave ” The government legislated for paid parental leave. The employer actually pays it. And is required to by law.

            I suspect you have bugger all idea about a lot of things but it is clear you believe it is ok for you to put your hand out when the circumstances of your life suit you. You are like so many of generation “Y” and of course the constant topic of conversation on this site. You are the whiners the wannabes and the I deserves..the spoilt brats of generation X…the 1st generation that never went to war…never went without…and our children (well not mine cos they are still little and I can see whats coming thanks to people like you) are you. The “I WANT IT AND I WANT IT NOW!!!” foot stomping over indulged pathetic little brats!

          • Yoni

            although your response tempts me to use personal insults I will just say use google if you don’t want to follow my link

            I could break down a number of your other comments but cannot be accused of wanting everything now.

            I have lived within my means when others choose not to Anderson if you are referring to the mortgage comment that is split across a number of houses

            I trust you will follow that link or at the very least do your own research before making anymore comments about what you think you know / I know

          • Hazards001

            Read the link…yippee you are right and I’m wrong. I pay for your paid parental leave..not your employer. Well that makes me feel so much better! Stupid me! As I’ve never actually had my hand out for a thing in my entire life I guess sometimes I misunderstand!

            “I have lived within my means when others choose not to Anderson if you are referring to the mortgage comment that is split across a number of houses”

            WHAT? And again…WTF is a net taxpayer?

    • Hazards001

      Sorry Ben but you are not playing devils advocate you’re actually playing I want my cake and eat it too.
      You are quite happy to take an interest free student loan..good for you for paying it back by the way
      You don’t agree with WFF but do agree with Paid Parental Leave?
      That’s having a 50/50 bite at the cherry. Let me guess. You can survive on your income while your wife is off work looking after a new born with the top up provided by her employer and our taxes.

      When the top up runs out she goes back to work (or you, whichever one of you stays home in this topsy turvy world these days..not important to my point) courtesy of child care subsidies and your joint income due to the education the state gave you is more than enough that you can take a moral high ground and say that people on lower incomes don’t deserve a handout?

      Now personally as I have not got a higher education as (and its to long to get into here) personal circumstances required I got into the work force at 15. I earn a relatively high income but not as high as someone doing the same job with a Degree.

      So here is my take on it. I don’t agree with any handouts unless they are truly socially responsible:

      Paid Parental Leave – Want a kid..have one..why should your employer pay for you to stay at home?

      Working for Families – Not making as much money as others? Work longer hours to get there. Why should the taxpayer top you up because you have kids? ( I know you said you’re against it..I’m generalising)

      Childcare subsides – Having kids IS a lifestyle choice. Want to go back to work? Pay for daycare. Don’t want to go back to work? Stay home tell Daddy to work more hours to pay the bills or get a better job.

      I don’t see why you expect me to pay you to have kids.

      I have 2 (Kids) and due to our combined income prior to our divorce the state has never provided a cent to their welfare outside of the normal stuff that the muppet stupid disqus will blather on about. (School etc.)

      • Mr_V4

        Excellent points, funny how people are anti subsidies for others, yet are blind to the ones they receive. Another case in point will be the generation retiring now. They have owned houses during the biggest credit boom in history 1970’s – 2008, which has resulted in massive house price inflation. Now they will be looking to release money from that period to fund retirement, but they will also receive national super at 65% average wage courtesy of the generous taxpayer.

  • StupidDisqus

    The really big ones:
    – “Free” healthcare – from GPs to hospitals
    – “Free” primary & secondary education
    – “Free” codger-dole as soon as they turn 65!

    And then the rest:
    – Dole whenever they can’t be bothered to work
    – DPB if they get pregnant
    – So cheap it’s almost free housing provided by the state
    – Accommodation benefits when they can’t pay private rent
    – “Free” police service – and those cops aren’t even armed
    – Free public defense lawyers, courts, judges, and juries
    – Free board, lodging, medical care & security if they go to jail
    – Free home detention etc if they don’t
    – Not to have to pay tax when they’re not working (for whatever reason)
    – Free ACC cover when they fuck up at work – or doing sport
    – Free Earthquake insurance through EQC
    – Free roads if they drive their shitty cheap jap imports
    – So cheap it’s free public transport if they’ve lost their license

    And in spite of contributing absolutely nothing to the country, they still expect the right to vote!

    NZ. Truly the land of bludgers!

    • What the hell – where do you think we live – a Western Liberal Democracy or some tin-pot dictatorship multinational corporate town?

      Some I agree with you there but for the rest I have to ask – what do you personally believe in and should the State do? Just have to ask so I can gauge your beliefs before replying fully

      • Ronnie Chow

        He’s pointing out the bludgers view on life , not supporting that list , Ben.

        • Yeah – ooops :(

          I gathered that in another comment further above – my error

    • Mr_Blobby

      “they still expect the right to vote” therein lies your problem, so many people and families are reliant on the state financially. They will vote in there own self interest that is to maintain there entitlements or jobs. No party can Govern without the support of the non productive society. All Government employees, national and local, all voters who rely on financial assistance from the state should acknowledge there conflict of interest and not be eligible to vote. If you don’t contribute and are a net loss to the system you have no interest in how big Government gets or how much it costs. Because you are not paying for it.

      At some point it will become unfordable. It will all end very badly.

      • Mr_V4

        Yes, it is a fallacy that the government is there to support the poorest of the poor (the truly deserving shall we say). What ends up happening is the middle class captures as many benefits for itself that it can, at the expense of the very rich and the very poor.

        Now sure the rich can probably fend for (protect) themselves (thats what good accountants and lawyers are for), but those at the very bottom of society are left worse of, and even worse they don’t even realise it.

    • Gazzaw

      You don’t like it Stupid D there’s always a one way ticket to somewhere better. I agree with you on a lot of your points but in my book the state provision of education, health and care of the elderly are pre-requesites for a civilised democracy.

    • Hazards001

      Nut job!

  • LesleyNZ

    One of my children bought a two bedroom unit in his early twenties went to Uni and had no student loan. Another one bought a house at age 27 and the last one has just bought a house at age 26 and had spent 5 years at Uni. All of them had holiday jobs from an early age and saved their money. One of them had a student loan.
    Tell this to the Greens – Recipe to owning a house in your twenties:

    1.Live at home with parents for as long as possible and pay board. It might not be “cool” but in the light of eternity – does it matter?

    2.Save your money – especially while you are young – don’t spend on unnecessary and luxury items – get priorities right. You don’t really need the “latest” stuff.

    3.Don’t expect to have all your parents have – it takes years of saving to be in their position. Most of us started at the bottom of rung and had second hand furniture.

    4. If attending tertiary education institutions – choose your course carefully – don’t go there without an end goal – it could be a very expensive exercise.

    • unsol

      Well said!

      Especially love #3 – so very true as how many young people/young parents had the 1960s & 1970s equivalent of flat screen TVs, ipods, brand new lounge suites & dining furniture, smartphones, tablets, girls getting their hair dyed/straightened/cut every 6 weeks (not to mention all the make-up, constant keeping up with the so-called fashion, plucking/waxing/pedicures etc….it costs heaps to look like eye candy) etc etc

      I would also add – parents make your kids money smart. Teach them the above, live by example & take what your kids cost you on average per week less their use of room & utilities & make your kids budget their own expenses in the last couple of years at school.

      This kind of thing sets you up for life – my parents were your typical middle class in the 70s & 80s so not a whole heap of spare money to go around but they did this so that when I left home (had to go to a uni outside my area for my degree of choice) I knew how to budget. I still made some mistakes but overall I was always better off than my mates as I knew the difference between wants & needs.

      Student loans are often a necessary evil with a lot of tertiary study (it’s about $4k p/a for a BA and about $18k for things like dentistry), but the right approach means they dont have to be a noose around your neck for life.

      I think it is a big ask to expect 18 year old to make the perfect long term career choice as things change – values, ideals, interests & economy. Look at the new teaching grads – massive cries of not having enough teachers, so kids go & get the loans & do the work to become one then you find there is no jobs at the end of it.

      Prospective employers have a responsibility to let course providers know what the market is like

      I will also say that a lot of this issue with students and actually people in their 20s, 30s & 40s is that they are so easily sucked into this age of consumerism. The age of credit means you can have things you dont have the money to pay for so they take advantage yet the smart thing to do is save your money first, then take up the interest free stuff so that you get the benefits of the items will earning interest on your savings for longer. Simple

  • Pete George

    Just follow a simple rule – it’s only fair that everyone gets all the benefits they deserve as long as other people subsidise or pay for them.

  • ConwayCaptain

    They go that people like JK didnt have to pay to go to Uni. Yes but in those days the tax rate was 60% at $24000 and quite high blow that. We had Govt subsidised employment, NZ Post, Railways, Electricity Dept etc etc.
    However they have now been bought up to think that the Taxpayer owes them a living.
    Solution: All income up to $30k tax free so a couple on $30k each would have $60K to live on. GST 20% so this couple would pay tax of approx $12k. WFF scrapped.
    All “benefits” apart from the Pension would be for a max of 5 years in the life of the person so DPB 5years, Dole 5yrs etc etc. That woould stop the breeders in their tracks.
    Work for the dole, dont like it dont get paid.
    State Housing then you can get it for so long as long as your income is less than the prescribed amount. After 5 yeras you are assessed.

    • Mr_V4

      And what reason do you have for ring fencing the pension?

  • Don’t forget that the first home should be in Herne Bay or somewhere equally nice.

    • Gazzaw

      I found that requirement for a property in Herne Bay very bizarre Arran. Hell, after a lifetime working and after having done reasonably well I still can’t afford to live in Herne Bay. Has its downsides though – you could have Cunners or Winston as next door neighbours.

  • blokeintakapuna

    Travelling to other lands truly helps put into context just how awesome we have it here in NZ.

    It also helps put into context just how non-existant our “poverty” is compared to the likes of India and Bangladesh poverty… and for those with that perspective, we realise that our “poverty” is really only a manufactured construct by the left so as to justify their vote-buying populist bribes to those with an expected entitlement attitude.

    Perhaps WOBH and the Truth could do some photo-essay comparisons to help those that lack the experience or ability to compare “true poverty” with “opted-for, poor choice poverty”

    That would certainly make the Greens and Labour STFU crying their crocodile tears to justify their bribes..

    How many in the Whale Army could find the “poor” with iPhones and iPads?

  • DangerousE

    judging by the comments in yesterdays post re; ‘Bad Judge’ sounds like they want there drugs legalised and probably free too, seeing how its from mother nature an all.

    • blokeintakapuna

      Being slightly pedantic – but it’s “their” drugs, not “there” drugs…

      Besides, why not have a God-given herb that grows as easy as parsley, free for adults to use as medication as they see fit?

  • Rodger T

    The young people of today, don`t know how lucky they are.

  • Ururoa

    Drop WFF altogether. I have kids, and used to get WFF, but having children is a lifestyle choice. So why on earth should people without kids, or those with kids over 18, subsidise through their taxes my lifestyle choice? If my passion in life was raising butterflies, should you subsidise that too?

    • Steve (North Shore)

      Depends how many butterflies, 1 or 2 is ok. But if you think 1 every year for the next 20 years, that would be exploiting not just bludging

  • GregM

    Every cent of taxpayers money that someone collects without working for is bludging.
    It is amazing how self sufficient people can be when there are no other options.
    Turn off the tap, now.

  • Cadwallader

    Getting a completely useless degree and expecting a useful job from it. Utterly pointless!

  • cows4me

    If young people truly believe that then all hope is lost but also I would have to state that is far from the norm around here. I can not think of any individual or couple under 25 on the dole around here. In fact most the young around here appear to be extremely hard working and industrious. This is probably more to do with a rural upbringing where children are expected to work from a very young age. The liberals would probably have kittens and accuse the parents of slave labour but people need to work be they the very young or old. Expecting free stuff without working for it is soul destroying and our country is suffering because of it. The various forms of welfare are like feeding large amounts of donuts to an obese person and then expecting them to lose weight, it’s senseless.

  • Mr_V4

    Which society is more prosperous, the one where every last dollar has to be poured into a house mortgage to afford a property at 5-7 times income or one where the ratio is more like 3-4 (such as Texas)?
    Seems to me people in Texas once they have paid off the mortgage have more capital to spend on business investment/retirement/lifestyle etc, that Kiwis just do not have the luxury of doing because its all being poured into buying houses off each other at ever inflating prices, funded by debt. And of course local councils are addicted to this because of their out of control spending habit, ie they need the increased prices to justify the increased rates.

    Why does NZ, of all countries in the world, where there is no shortage of land have some of the worlds highest prices housing prices?

    • Hazards001

      Partly because we have one of the most over regulated systems in the world, you can’t mow your lawn here without a resource consent. Partly due to a lax immigration system that allows people that can access massive low interest loans and dodgy economic practices into the country helping to inflate house prices. And of course then there is the global economy that says that trees grown here are worth more overseas so therefore the building materials we might have made from here are too.

      On top of which..if we keep building on our land where the hell are we going to grow things to eat?

      • Pissedoffyouth

        I think this sums it up perfectly.

      • Mr_V4

        0.8% of NZ’s land is currently urbanised.

        • Hazards001

          Ok..and its late so there is no way in hell I’m going to try justify this but..a massive proportion(of NZ) is also swamp, mountain, desert, forest or some other kind of tundra. How much? How many people can we reasonably expect to live on Mt Cook? Or the rest of the southern alps? I don’t know if less than 1% of NZ’s land mass is inhabited or not..and if it is how much land on top of the inhabited land is required to sustain the current population as it stands? You have to subtract all the uninhabitable and un arable land first though.

          • Mr_V4

            Get a sense of perspective. Nobody will be living on Mt Cook. The fact is farmland in NZ is relatively cheap per hectare compared to housing. As cities expand it is more viable to build highrises, compare Auckland to Levin for example.

            Judging by NZ’s food/produce exports we are generating more than sufficient for our local population.

            And interestingly, conversion of farmland to ‘lifestyle blocks’, an incredibly inefficient way of housing population (compared to a city) or producing food (compared to a larger scale farm) is more of a ‘threat’ to good farmland than any city expansion ever would be. Consider the calculation in the article below where the estimate is 376sqkm2 of farmland is converted to lifestyle blocks each year, housing ~18,000 people. Now Auckland city is maybe 560sqkm2 yet houses over a million.