Exactly what we need here, rewarding the best teachers


“From this September, schools in England and Wales will rip up the existing staff salary structures so that there are no longer automatic pay rises for all teachers each year.


Instead, individual heads will have almost total freedom to decide pay levels, giving them the power to reward the best performers and prevent the weakest teachers from receiving annual increases.” 

Cue outrage from the unions. Meanwhile, the best teachers will stay – and better staff will be attracted to teaching, leading to better-performing kids.And crap teachers will no longer be able to hide and ruin kids’ lives with substandard teaching and will hopefully piss off out of schools.

That would be ideal here – although given the left-wing nest of vipers that is the principals’ federation, could they be trusted not just to reward their union buddies?


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  • Gazzaw

    Just the news that our daughter has been waiting for. She’s already tempted by the infinitely better salaries paid to UK teachers and now that she can be paid on merit over there as well she’ll need no further encouragement. No doubt she will be accompanied by many of our brightest & best young teachers who won’t wait for charter schools to happen here.

  • disqus_36L0tAouTh

    I used to work at a supermarket when I was a student and, if you weren’t sure what any of the other students who worked there were studying, you could guarantee that 80% of the time if you asked they would say that they were at Teacher’s College – they seemed to let anyone in. I failed my entrance exam – I don’t think I was P.C. enough.

    • Gazzaw

      You probably weren’t intelligent enough.

      • Dave

        First year Uni we helped a friend who went to teachers college with an assignment, I don’t think they can reject anyone….. Was ridiculous

        • Gazzaw

          Believe me times have changed Dave. I can only speak for grads who are looking to do a post-grad diploma in Education but it’s pretty tough currently. Too many grads with B & C passes looking for work. Doesn’t cut it any more. May have done in the past but not right now which is great for the profession. A family member has just passed his science degree in the top five with A passes. He wants to teach but in his specialist subject there were only ten slots for his post-grad diploma – only four students with B passes made the cut.

      • disqus_36L0tAouTh

        I applied after graduating with a BA – not straight out of high school like all of the others, but thanks.

  • Teachersrock

    And how will they find these “excellent teachers”, why using worthless standardised testing.

    And if the bad teachers are as bad as you pretend they are, you really think they won’t hesitate for a moment to drill their kids in passing tests at the expense of the kids actual learning.

    • Too many teachers are in the news at the moment for drilling kids.

    • Dion

      No – standardised testing that’s worthless in your opinion.

      • Teachersrock

        If you want to know want a kid actually knows, the least effective way is a standardised test. But then, I do not expect you to know that.

        • Dion

          You offer no alternative solutions, so what’s one to do?

          Oh that’s right, militantly protect the status quo. Surprise, surprise.

          • Teachersrock

            Given that the status quo puts us in the top 10 (and in some measurements the top 5) education systems in the world I am happy to defend it.

            That is not to say we cannot tweak a few things to do better, but the lies National is telling and you are swallowing will harm kiwi kids, not help.

          • In Vino Veritas

            And the status quo that puts us in the top 10 teachers, also tells us that class size (within reason) is inconsequential to learning. Yet teachers and their Unions fought tooth and nail to have that initiative quashed. You speak with forked tongue.

          • Teachersrock

            Actually parents led the charge against larger classes and the loss of technology classes at Intermediate.

            If you are going to spout right wing nonsense, at least aim it at the right group.

          • In Vino Veritas

            Of course parents led the charge Teachers. With teachers and their Unions encouraging them every step of the way with their propaganda. I’ll bet that nowhere will you find any Union, teacher or principal that stood up and said publicly, that class sizes are irrelevant.
            And if you are going to spout your left wing nonsense, try and be factually correct.

          • Teachersrock

            Factually correct is smaller classes are far better. Biggish classes will get average results, smaller classes will get better results.

            But then people like you would prefer teachers fired and average results because of how you despise teachers.

          • In Vino Veritas

            Yet PISA, the organisation teachers and their Unions constantly rely on to show how well they are doing, says that class size (within reason) is irrelevant and that learning is directly correlated to the quality of the teacher. Now, that is a fact. I have the PISA reports that say so. You claim “factual” but your facts are based on you just saying it is so.

            And teachers, I do not despise teachers, I respect most greatly. I do however, despise poor teachers and their protectors. With logic like yours, if you are a teacher, you shouldnt be.

    • Pissedoffyouth

      Teachersrock – could you please give us ONE, just one, valid reason why teacher’s who are good shouldn’t be rewarded, while letting mediocre teachers stay on “Teacher minimum wage”? Because it’s not fair?

      I would have loved to have people jump from the private sector to teach me about the real world – which will be possible once we can offer enough incentives.

      • Teachersrock

        Tell me a 100% fair and accurate way to measure performance that will not undermine the learning of the student, or be wide open to manipulation and I will listen.

        I am waiting.

        • Pissedoffyouth

          Answer my question first.

          • Teachersrock

            I have said before, many times before, if they can come up with a 100% fair and accurate way to measure performance that will not undermine the learning of the student, or be wide open to manipulation – I would be happy to consider it.

            I do not mind better teachers getting paid more, IF the system put in place is as I described it above.

            So, explain such a system please.

          • Dion

            The rest of the work force is measured against standards of performance – many of which aren’t “fair” on the likes of me 100% of the time (then again nor is life). But when taken together, they build a good picture of what’s going on. Nobody’s bitching about it – and nobody’s on strike.

            I think the burden of proof should be on -you- to explain (for instance) why a system that protects a principal whose school is facing serious staff turnover issues and has been placed under statutory management is good enough.

            But you won’t do that. You’ll simply explain how you’re a “professional” and above scrutiny – and then start throwing the verbal blackboard dusters around again.

          • Teachersrock

            The rest of the workforce do not have responsibility for educating children.

          • davcav

            Actually we do, every time a student comes out of school without a grasp of the basics.

          • Teachersrock

            Which is no where near as often as National party lies would have people believe.

          • Gazzaw

            TR, I’m not anti-teacher – I actually enjoyed my time at school & had some great teachers, a couple of whom I would classify as lifechangers. I have close family members who teach and I know just how hard they work and the amount of private time they input for prep, sport, cultural activities, PTA, BOT, endless after hours parent contact etc. That’s all par for the course for good teachers and I know that many will be back at school next week preparing for the new year.

            You have to admit that there is a percentage of the profession (like any other) who are letting the side down and are being protected by a union totally outdated in its attitude. The system is failing in delivering the basics to too many students – both employers and tertiary institutions are in accord on that. We must look at new ways that may improve delivery and teachers prepared to give them a fair trial rather than just sneer openly without a fair hearing.

          • Teachersrock

            Yes there are a very small number of teachers who need to go, and they can be removed if principals are willing to follow the process.

            And given where we rank in the world, for almost all kids the system is far from a failure.

          • Bafacu

            Teachersrock – I think you are wrong about “how few students come out of school without a grasp of the basics”. I am involved in recruitment within the ICT environment and the lack of basic English grammar and mathematical skills is astounding in the CVs we receive from recent graduates (both from secondary and tertiary institutions).
            Tell me how well the school system works again?

          • Teachersrock

            Very well indeed.

          • davcav

            I know,we will have teachers teach the students what they know and them mark them on what they have taught them…all internal of course. They will then issue marks and make it so that the students don’t need to pass their final exams to pass the year.

            This means the students that have been “generously marked” during the year don’t have to do well in the exams while a decent number, because they have already passed don’t try either. This skews the results and the teachers still get that “feel good feeling” (or so the papers are telling us) at the end of the year.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            Well for a start if you think anything in life is 100% fair and accurate, and are teaching children that it is – no wonder we have a problem.

            What you don’t realise Teacher, is that its all well and good being really really good at exams and learning, and being top 5 in the world, but what we need as a country to push for is real world stuff. Stuff that’ll make you valuable on a world market for jobs, and by teachers telling kids that “Oh no, getting an apprenticeship is for idiots, if you’re not going to uni and studying (useless topic that leaves student $30,000 in debt and unemployable) you’ll fail in life” you get a whole legion of children stuck after school not being able to do anything. But that doesn’t matter, if we’re number 5?

            Thats the lefts problem, and why there are no “Jobs”. They removed options of kids who weren’t that great at school from going and working somewhere in their skill set, without it being “Too shit a job for them”

            I think National standards will be able to tell us where kids are failing, and the ripple effect of why they will be unemployable – and will allow later generations of children to be better off by nipping the problem in the bud – especially the large amount of PI and Maori kids failing.

          • Teachersrock

            I see you have just waffled spouted National party bullshit lies and avoided telling me all about this wonderful measurement system of yours.

            No surprise there.

          • In Vino Veritas

            You consistently claim that performance pay will undermine learning, yet provide no evidence. I say that performance pay will improve learning.
            Open to manipulation? What a load of horseshit. It will only be as open to manipulation as the current system which encourages teachers to be average.

          • Teachersrock

            I suggest you look at the world wide research that shows performance pay does nothing for kids.

            And given we have one of the best education systems in the world, your claim kiwi teachers are average is just blind right wing bullshit.

          • In Vino Veritas

            Teachers, whip out your reading glasses and belay the left wing hysteria. I said it encourages teachers to be average. Current teachers can get better. Ever heard of strive for excellence?

          • blokeintakapuna

            20% failure rate is one measure… a totally unacceptable outcome.

          • Teachersrock

            The 20% is a lie.

        • Dumrse

          The “undermining of the learning of the student” will not be caused by any perfomance measures it will be the result of the actions of some pissed off teacher, not an inanate administrative procedure. Thanks for confirming who will fuck what.

  • Sym Gardiner

    Oh YES PLEASE!!!
    The progressive rolling back of Tomorrows Schools has been the biggest mistake of successive governments. It should have been pushed forward and principals given real performance management teeth.

  • Edwin Wigmore

    I often hear we are “in the top five or ten” in the world for teaching. It used to always puzzle when you also hear that up to a third of kids are coming out of school illiterate.

    From my understanding, during the 80’s much of the school was “feminized”, by that I mean made more friendly to girls. This started with the removal of competition when they discovered girls learn better in non competitive environments. It continued when they were told to redesign maths and science to make them “more interesting for girls” (boys at the time were occupying the top 60% of places in these subjects.)

    They succeeded and girls are now topping everything. But the problem is not everyone gets this new education method. For example, a maths professor at the Auckland Uni said that 65% of students coming in to do a BCom did not understand the basic principles of maths. The ones who ‘get’ the new system do incredibly well, but there is a relatively low number of them.

    It is the ones who get this new system that are tested and show NZ as having a great education system. Unfortunately, the rest are getting left behind.

    • Pissedoffyouth

      As I said in my previous comment – the reason jobs like cleaners etc go unfilled is because the dumb kids who 30 years ago would have gone “Oh I’m not good enough for uni, this suits me” would fill them.

      Now, the dumb kids get told “You are my smartest little sunshine, go and study at a course somewhere because fruit picking is for idiots”.

  • Allyson

    From memory approx 1 in 10 of my teachers were really good and added great value to my life. The rest were rubbish. If rewarding excellence improves this ratio it has to be a good thing.

  • flashman

    Sounds great in theory and no doubt a significant minority of schools will welcome it, as some did the option to have grant-maintained funding back in the 90’s. But the majority will resist this just as they would in NZ, if only by Principals awarding all teachers the same pay rise every year even when they have the option not to. Performance-related pay for teachers in state schools is as elusive in the UK as it is here. And all the liberal lefties hate Gove anyway.