Saturday General Debate

Good morning and welcome to the Saturday general debate. There’s been some dimwitted shenanigans this week, with Gareth Morgan dominating the headlines for the dumbest of reasons by alienating cat owners and of course fans of the Wellington Phoenix. There has also been debate surrounding the cabinet reshuffle with the return of Nelson MP Nick Smith and the promotion of Nikki Kaye, making way for them were Phil Heatly and and Kate Wilkinson.

The gay marriage debate is heating up again, featuring plenty of times this week with Colin Craig kicking off his year with his controversial comments that society is right to discriminate against gay relationships.

Of course as always the topic is open for debate, go for your lives.

Peeling_Out

 


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  • info

    it’s been brought to my attention that ‘gay marriage’ is another tool of the communist/socialist left, brought to the masses as yet another way to degrade society.

    • info

      just as feminism was brought to the west by communists a few decades ago as a way to degrade the family unit..

      • cows4me

        You’re on to it info. Has society advanced or have we gone backwards. The statistics speak for themselves.

        • Pissedoffyouth

          Well crime is at all all time low

      • Pissedoffyouth

        Apparently the family unit was destroyed when people stopped being stoned to death for working on Sunday

        • Even that is a departure from tradition…the Sabbath is Saturday..some pope changed it to Sunday, so if the argument is that we should stick to traditions then when are we going back to the Sabbath being on Saturday?

          • unsol

            And ban divorce, remove the vote for women, ban them from working outside the home, re-introduce slavery etc etc etc

          • Travis Poulson

            Like hell. If me and my mrs were solely living off my income we’d both be dead. Although if you’re offering, we’ve got a stack of ironing here and a few weedy gardens.

          • unsol

            Haha well since you ask I’m great with ironing but suck at weeding (seriously – mistake weeds for plants often just because they have a pretty flower)!

          • I weed with a chainsaw and Roundup

    • Oh ok, so those gay people in National and the Conservative party and Act party are commie plotters?

      • cows4me

        No sorry WO, they may indeed be well intentioned caring people as many gay people are but do you truly believe our more liberal society has produced the results that suggest we are on the path to enlightenment, I would suggest not. There have always been gay people and they should be excepted members in society. Gay marriage, no way. It’s one man one woman, gays trying to claim marriage as their right is bullshit of the highest order. It’s simply an attempt to normalise their relationships when patently their relationships aren’t normal. Ok if we have gay marriage whats next, think it won’t happen, don’t be naive. Plenty examples all over the world. Marriage may be an old institution and in many cases a failing one but it should be a constant, change is not always for the best. Every attempt to break down the old morals in society has not created a better society, it’s getting worst. Gay marriage is but another cut, death by a thousand cuts or something like that.

        • I think you need to clarify…sounds like you agree with Colin Craig but where he wants open discrimination against gay people you seem to want to have them excepted from society…really?…Where are you going to put them? Palmerston North?

          • cows4me

            No of course not, dorkland will surfice.

          • So you do think that they should be excepted…is that your backdoor plan to rid the country of poofs?

          • Gazzaw

            I’m surprised that we haven’t heard from Gayguy by now, He must have gone camping for the long weekend.

          • cows4me

            Why do you believe I wish to rid the country of “poofs”. We don’t agree on the right of homosexuals to “marry’. I have very “close ” friends that are gay. I don’t tell them I’m married every minute and they don’t tell me they should be married every minute. It’s all horseshit WO

          • Travis Poulson

            Hate to burst your bubble cows, but gays and lesbians are everywhere, not just the big city. They’re even on dairy farms.

          • Patrick

            Yep seen a couple of bulls going at it from time to time. As a rule they shouldn’t be in the same paddock long term as they will adopt the “any hole is a goal” mentality. Then when they are put in with the cows they cannot be bothered with all the hard work involved trying to “pull” – much easier back in the paddock with the other bull.

          • Travis Poulson

            Except you’re diverting from the real issue that I was talking about humans, not cattle.

          • unsol

            And in the All Blacks….good grief that means all these boys on here who support grown men running up & down a field with a ball & tackling /scrumming so they can grab & grope each others nuts are closet poof fans…..

            But lets not get confused…..lesbians are OK, it’s just the boy on boy action that people mostly refer to…

          • Travis Poulson

            In the All Blacks? since when? and who? are you sure you haven’t misheard a news article on the radio by a gay lobby group saying they need an All Black to come out and act as a role model: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/8146818/Gay-All-Black-wanted-to-help-tackle-bigotry

          • unsol

            There’s a few – I know some All Blacks past & present (the rural area I grew up in seems to produce so-called hetero boys that like screwing goats & playing rugby!)

          • Travis Poulson

            There’s a bit of difference between drunken shenanigans (there we go, I used that word twice today) and sexual identity. Hell, when I was playing down south we did a lap of the field on a cold winters night during the after match with nothing but a beer.

          • unsol

            Yes there is – what I meant was that my area produced all blacks & dodgy boys….the former being the ones who I know who know the gay all blacks :)

          • Travis Poulson

            Which brings me to my next question: are your sources credible enough for me to blindly take your word for it?

            So I’ll assume your stance is one of two things: either complete bullshit, or what you’re referring to without divulging too much is still largely under wraps and you’re not at liberty to say, bringing this conversation to a dead end?

          • unsol

            Well one is a past all black & close family friend & the other is someone I grew up with, whose parents were friendly with mine, but who knows everyone I know. Another is one I went through my entire schooling with – absolute asshole so not friends but again someone who knows everyone I know. There are no secrets in small communities & if these guys say that some All Blacks (past or present) are gay then they are – they wouldn’t lie about something like that.

            But I am not going to spill so up to you whether you want to believe me or not…..but to assume that every male in our biggest sporting team is hetero would be a little naive I think.

          • Travis Poulson

            I didn’t assume that, I just wanted to fish a bit deeper as to where your angle was coming from. Now, about that washing….

          • unsol

            Aye you just said it was ironing!

          • Ronnie Chow

            Our Navy and Army was well know for screwing Ladyboys in Singapore .

          • I know of a league household name who would arrange a trip to the brothel for the boys with their pick of the whores…he would ostentatiously select his one and take a room…while the hooker sat in the bathroom he would nail the bloke who was in there waiting for him…

          • cows4me

            Of course they are Travis, do you honestly think I was serious?

          • Gazzaw

            No deserves a fate like that Cam.

          • Gazzaw

            .

        • Hoarde your guns then for the coming gay apocalypse of humankind

        • unsol

          You assume that society has at some point had a real moral code – when of course the same things have been happening since day dot.

          Same sex relationships have no baring on the morality of society; murders, rapes, child molestation have all been around forever & committed mostly by heterosexual men. So as the populations have increased & people have been able to live longer we see more of this stuff…especially post the media age.

          If you want to reverse this then you need to first of all, make mankind perfect & second, make sure people dont have any more kids/let the population die off a bit (so infertile gay & hetero couples who dont want kids would be very handy).

          And you would need to reverse the medical advances so that people die when nature intended – whether it be deformities from birth, heart attacks, getting fat, cancers etc

          Oh & also reverse the techonology revolution so that life becomes harder so people get worn out & die younger.

          As for marriage being the b all & end all in terms of defining society’s moral compass: heterosexual relationships have never been great hence why the second divorce was allowed, people got divorced.

          Longevity in marriage – as seen in the days of old can be explained by 2 things: people died before they could get divorced & they were complacent as had the misguided view (mainly because society frowned upon singledom) that being lonely & unhappy with an asshole was better than being single.

          So any argument re the break down of society due to the breakdown of the nuclear family is bullshit – yes when it comes to support of extended family it has merit, but the actual 2 parents/3 kids is just rubbish.

          Families have always been a little haven of dysfunction whether it be from cheating, verbal/emotional/physical abuse, super religious that almost becomes ingrained & passed via DNA down through each generation.

          Marriage is just a piece of paper – the genuine success of it is defined by the attitude & moral compass of the individuals signing it.

          At least in this day and age it is something that people do because they genuinely want – so as to express love to their spouse, rather than having to (so as to ensure heirs, status & wealth).

          And let’s not forget, this marriage you hold in such high esteem used to occur most often between men in their 20s and young girls who had only just reach puberty (so anywhere from 10 years old & up)…..which was not only sanctioned child rape, but a form of slavery

          • dotcom

            Crime is not committed mostly by hetero men. Crimes of violence maybe, but not for example property crimes or sex crimes, in which hetero men are a lower proportion.

            Damn those (inconvenient) statistics in which we (conveniently) forget to factor in the proportions of the population. Of course, numerically, hetero men being a numerically-larger base, contribute numerically more crime. How many times do we have to repeat this proportionality correction? Proportionately, sorry, gay men are the more felonious.

          • unsol

            Ok so you are men are at least make up most of our cells.

            But re “Of course hetero men being a numerically-larger base, contribute numerically more crime……sorry, gay men are the more felonious”

            Oh my God how on earth can you possibly quantify that? Nothing I have read via police stats & corrections back up anything you are claiming as fact.

            Re those who are in the sytem, Sept 2012 data states: about 24% are aged between 20-24, 79% of all offenders are male, 20.2% are female, 0.1% are indeterminate & 0.1% are unknown, 44% are Maori, 35% are European.

            In terms of what is being commited – the main ones are 32% is theft, 14% is property damage, 13% is unlawful entry, 10% is intent to cause injury & public order offenses.

            But given we have about 20,000 children who are abused, neglected & maltreated by their so-called caregivers I would say that these numbers almost pale in comparison.

            But I cant find anything specifically on sexual orientation so given that LGBT make up at most 5-8% of the population so cant see how your claims stack up.

            And if I could what exactly is it you think the gay boys do the most? Break in & steal, rape women & children, GBH? Have you ever been out as in the capacity of someone who sees crime? I did Victim Support for many years & hubby did ambulance….not too many gay boys fucking up their missues & kids & their neighbours all the time.

            It is like any section of society – take politics where 69% of our MPs are male yet only 6% are gay

            So by that standard 6% of men who offend might be gay,

            In saying that child abuse & domestic violence are by far one of our worst worst crimes (the former where we as the 3rd most harmful to our children in the OECD) & the prison population reflects this. They are all hetero men in hetero relationships. In an survey done a few years ago we were about 2nd worst for burglary, 5th worst for thefts from cars, 5th for assaults, 10th for robbery and 11th for theft of personal property & sexual assaults against women

            If you are referring to child molestation – it is mostly girls that get molested (1 in 4 by the time they are 16 as opposed to 1 in 6-10 boys) & further, of those that molest boys, 80% identify themselves as hetero. This is according to Rape Crisis, Male Survivors of Sexual Abuse & MOH.

            So seems to me you are mouthing off half cocked here.

          • dotcom

            Nice to see you have been enjoying your Saturday. So have I.

          • unsol

            We have had a great day thanks – fab weather so good times had by all…

          • dotcom

            You made the initial claim. Gratuitously, you said that “murders, rapes and child molestation [are] committed mostly by heterosexual men”.

            You raised it. Therefore the onus is not you to prove the positive, not to transfer the onus to me to have to prove the negative of your assertion.

            Enjoy your Sunday trying to prove it. You will not be able to. If you start with Googling “homosexuality and crime statistics”, you will not find anything of assistance to your unsustainable remark though, sorry. So you will have to find another search term that might help you. Good luck. I’ll be fishing.

          • unsol

            79% of offenders are male & only 6-10% of the population is gay with most crime being the kind that requires the kind of testosterone that gay men simply do not have with most of the worst of all crime being committed by Maori in hetero relationships…..I dont need to prove anything else as the dots connect….

          • Lion_ess

            That’s a pretty good observation. I do wonder why many of the male commenters on here appear threatened by the prospect of same sex marriage when the relationships have always existed, but now they’ll have also have a Marriage Certificate.

      • BR

        They are politicians. Being in a political party, any political party, does not make someone a conservative. You mentioned the National Party. What does it stand for these days? Any party that includes the odious Nick Smith certainly does not stand for conservative values.

      • Ronnie Chow

        Blame the Romans . Always blame the Romans .

        • Rodger T

          Romanes eunt domus,

  • blokeintakapuna

    So what are your thoughts on how National can promote themselves better to fill the gaping chasm of their silence that the unions and left leaning media fill with puff pieces and union plants they use to sledge the government?

    • StupidDisqus

      Promote themselves? How about actually doing stuff?

      Banning union involvement in politics would be a good start.
      Dropping MMP threshold to 3% and stop going anti the Conservatives.
      Then, of course, stopping benefits!

      • Hazards001

        Half wit..if the MMP threshold drops to 3% the conservatives won’t make a difference due to the fact the Winnie and The Greens along with Dunne and other minor self interested fuck wits will simply collect more seats. You really need to get your hand off it.
        No one is going to take Colin Craig seriously, not enough to matter anyway.

        Banning union contributions to politics should be mandatory, so should any corporate contributions. A private contribution should have a cap at say 10k and no one may contribute more than once a year to a political party. No funds or trusts may contribute and all donations are to be placed on a register available for anyone to see. How’s that for fair?

        You will never get your utopian ideal where only the wealthy are allowed to function and all others will be serfs to their will.

        Your policies are clear to see. If a human being in our society doesn’t have the ability to fend for themselves then they should be cast to the winds to die…correct?

        • StupidDisqus

          difference due to the fact the Winnie and The Greens along with Dunne and other minor self interested fuck wits will simply collect more seats

          Someone clearly incapable of basic mathematics. Where will their votes come from?

          You will never get your utopian ideal where only the wealthy are allowed to function and all others will be serfs to their will.

          On the contrary – this is the natural condition of humankind. The idea that life is anything else is the core of progressivism / leftism / communism / socialism / unionism / labourism / environmentalism – call it what you will.

          The answer is NZ’ economy is rapidly returning to that state – as is the whole of the “Welfare West” as the delusions of the 20th century are revealed for what they are. The US may have just taken a jump towards communism, but certainly no Asian or African state has any delusions about “Men being Created Equal”, national health systems, welfare, dole, pensions etc.

          The only question is how do we get there: through a collapse, or with some kind of functioning authority managing the process. That is our choice – and we’re choosing collapse.

  • Phar Lap

    Heard on the grapevine they are doing auditions,to see who will play the part of Lance Armstrong ,the Claytons winner of Seven tour dU Frances.Armstrong the biggest liar and con man since Pinocchio.The movie makers have Two suspects who could fill the bill.Mr Schmidts the big fat German ,who for some reason or other has changed his name to Dotcom,now there is a clue.The other suspect is a guy called Shearer from Lie-bour Party ,who keeps running around telling huge lies and misleading statements that his lot can build 100,000 Houses in NZ in Ten years for $300K each.Surely he must qualify to play Armstrong, makes him an even bigger liar than Dotcom,or Armstrong.

    • Rodger T

      Keith Richards has to be a shoe in.

      • Phar Lap

        Teeheeheeheehee! Well spotted..

  • Mitch82

    Haha that camping picture made my morning..

    • Gazzaw

      ……….and here’s me thinking that it was a preview of labour’s affordable housing scheme.

      • Travis Poulson

        It is, we snapped it up before it disappeared like the video tape.

    • Travis Poulson

      I bet you’d do it too, wouldn’t you.

  • Rodger T

    Gareth Morgans been hunting,

    • Lion_ess

      Well done.

    • cows4me

      Good shit Rodger

  • Pete George

    A comment at The Standard sums up the (currently inflamed) discontent and infighting at The Standard.

    – Mike Smith and TRP (Te Reo Putake) are using technical and procedural argument to explain away or ignore the reality .
    – The members feel duped by the caucus leadership.

    – The members do not support them.
    – We have a huge problem.
    – The approach of Mike Smith and TRP exacerbates the problem.

    Camp Shearer are ignoring the problems and trying to convince everyone that they will cruise to victory (albeit needing Greens) next year.

    http://yournz.org/2013/01/26/a-common-labour-sentiment-we-have-a-huge-problem/

    • StupidDisqus

      That’s because Labour+Greens will cruise to victory next year.

      The alternative is Naitonal+Conservative – actual conservative government. Of course Whale’s doing everything he can against Colin Craig, hopefully John Key will do what needs to be done, drop the threshold to keep the Unions out of government!

      • Pete George

        Yeah, funny. Like Greens could well hold onto their gains but probably won’t get much more than the polls have them on now. And Labour are a shambles of infighting and denial. They could sort themselves out but there’s no sign of that yet.

        NZ First is a big unknown, as usual. Don’t know if Maori Party will hold on, ditto Dunne. Act may or may not come back with something credible post banks. And Conservatives making whatever the threshold is is far from certain.

        The on certainty is that no one will cruise to anything. Unless Labour keep doing their best to emulate Titanic.

        • StupidDisqus

          Act may or may not come back with something credible post banks

          Act is fucked. The latest polls have Colin on about 2%. A 3% Threshold should guarantee a National/Conservative coalition for the next couple of terms at least – and without any special extra seats or teacup deals. Why Whale hates this I have no idea.

          • Pete George

            The chances of a 3% threshold are virtually zilch. I’d likew to see it is a reasonable compromise but I don’t see much chance of it happening.

      • The Conservatives aren’t a party, they are a cult

        • Ronnie Chow

          The cult of Ayn Rand ?

          • Tristanb

            I haven’t read anything by her, but I thought she was the unlikeable woman always dragged out to discredit libertarians, not conservatives.

          • StupidDisqus

            No, because Rand was a leftertarian athiest anarchist.

            The Conservatives are right, Christian, conservatives!

  • fozzie2

    Judge Judy at it again – promoting the boyfriend….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10861503

    • I don’t think her husband would appreciate your comment…

    • Good on her anyway for resisting what was likely to be the recommendation of a socialist plant…I’ll bet Mike Williams was never anyones prefered candidate for boards, he just appointed by the minister responsible

      • fozzie2

        Good to see you acknowledged my h/t !!

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