What the PPTA ad should have said

The PPTA has been blowing thousands of dollars of members money running a political campaign. It is of course highly subjective.

This one however is much more accurate:

PPTA Charter school advertisement poster  - There’s a private part National and Act don't want you to see this summer


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  • LesleyNZ

    Love it! Bet PPTA wished they had not used the fig leaf now!

    • A_Teacher

      This PPTA member could care less.

  • thor42


    In spite of the dinosaur-like patch-protecting teacher unions suggesting otherwise, **one size does NOT fit all** when it comes to education.

    Charter schools can be a valuable and useful part of the education system here (as they are in so many other countries).

    • A_Teacher

      It is very true that one size does not fit all…or as I prefer to say, ‘Horses for courses’. I work in a moderately conservative working class school that suits its rough and tumble clientele but I also recognise that it wouldn’t suit others…

    • A_Teacher

      That is not to say that Charter Schools are even necessary though because the flexibility to set up special interest schools already exists within the current structure…

    • Teachersrock

      Charter Schools are a way for people to make a profit out of kids education. Nothing more.

      • And you aren’t making a profit? Do you work for free?

        • Teachersrock

          I am paid for the job I do. There is a difference.

          • Patrick

            Not quite correct – you are paid to do a job, you get paid whether you actually produce results or not. Therefore you are paid based upon your attendance at school.
            That is unlike most of us in private enterprise where we are continuously assessed & scored against KPIs. If we don’t achieve our KPIs we are given the DCM – Don’t Come Monday.

      • Pissedoffyouth

        The company I work for does a really good job at what they do, and they make a profit. Making a profit doesn’t mean failure, rather, it drives for excellence.

        It’d be hard to make a profit with teachers who were deadweights, like yourself though.

        • Teachersrock

          Education should not be about making a profit. It should be about serving the community.

          Money is not everything.

          • MONEY is one of the greatest motivators there is besides the threat of a bullet to the head. Reward me with more money for better results and watch me try harder. Currently I get around half of what I would earn teaching in a High School. I bet you would not be prepared to do what I do even though it is serving the community as the $$ would not be enough to service your current life style. Money DOES matter. I am a fully trained High School teacher working with teenagers who have been excluded from High School. I would LOVE to do this job on the $70,000+ salary scale I would be on if I was back teaching IN a High School instead of Alternative Education.

          • Teachersrock

            So you are ok with the teacher in the next class getting a bigger “bonus” than you because they got lucky this year and have a class full of smart kids.

            Me personally would prefer they find a better way of rewarding and measuring success than the bullshit the MoE are putting forward at the moment. So until they do, I will oppose the current thinking on performance pay.

  • A_Teacher

    Cameron…you make a lot of comments about teaching…how about you actually try it for a year and see how you go?

    I came into teaching with ideological preconceptions…most of which have fallen by the wayside as the impractical but well meaning notions that they were…I suggest that you put your ideas to the test at the coal face…

    • Teachersrock

      You are wasting your time if you think talking common sense to this lot of teacher haters will get you any where.

      • Dion

        It’s not like you’ve actually tried very hard. You’ve merely come on here and called people “haters” and “fucktards”

        At least this guy actually has an argument that consists of more than abuse.

        • Teachersrock

          Actually I have had some rather good conversations with a couple on here who have actually been civil and not just spouted right wing bullshit.

          Try it some time, you will be surprised.

          • GregM

            I am thinking the problems we have are mostly caused by the MoE and the unions. The teachers who actually do the job for the most part do an AWESOME job. It is the complete reluctance to change anything in our apparently world leading system by the aforementioned that is what pisses me off.
            There is still a much too large tail of under achievers, this needs to change, and other government agencies need to start pulling finger here. I would suggest a lot of kids who aren’t doing what they could is due to what’s happening at home. CYPFS, WINZ, police and the MoE need to start working together, Identify the problem households and work on solutions for that kid.
            I cannot see any constructive input any union could offer to this process.

          • Teachersrock

            The thing is, the so called tale is a lie.

            When coming up with this number National lumped in kids with all sorts of special needs in with those who are genuinely failing and should not be.

            This is not an attempt to dismiss the tale, only to clear up the lies and point out that the tale is a lot smaller than 20%. I have seen numbers which put it at closer to 8-5% of genuine failings.

            And as for this “reluctance” that is also an image of the National party. Teaches change their practice all the time, they have to, if they didn’t then you would see a tail of 50%+. Kids learn in a wide range of ways and as such teachers approach a single concept in a number of ways. The system that National favors is opposite to how kids learn. Yes the Union is FAR from perfect, very far, but they have the right of this. National are doing what they are doing because of ideology, not because they have proof it works. Hell most of the evidence out there disproves what they want to do.

            What needs to happen is all parties involved need to sit down, and using sound research come to a conciseness, and then leave education alone and stop using it as a political football.

    • I’ve got better things to do.

      • Teachersrock

        Which is code for you couldn’t do it.

    • His wife is a High School teacher so he knows full well what the job involves. As I currently work with students excluded from High School he has an even better idea of some of the issues that teachers now face. I stood up in a PPTA meeting of 700 teachers in Wellington and argued against a strike ( years ago ) with a well thought out logical argument. I said that our Union reps weren’t experienced negotiators and that it made more sense to hire a negotiator than to waste all our money on a strike over our pay. I also pointed out that striking for a week lost us so much money that even if we got the 3% increase they were after we wouldn’t get back the money we had lost for years! it made no sense at all. The response was to essentially pat me on the head and smile at me as a naive young teacher who would soon learn how things were done at the ‘ chalk face ‘ as they called it. I hated that. We are not bloody coal miners we are educators and should have more sense.

  • J.M

    Saw the ad in question, and whilst freedom of speech and all that, surely the PPTA membership is diverse enough that many members don’t want their money wasted on this sort of thing.
    In my industry too, the union is far too interested in making political statements rather than looking after the interests of members, hence I want nothing to do with the cunts. It does seem though that the union members I do know are poor performers in the workplace, I guess their union fees are an insurance policy against getting fired.

    • Orange

      Yes it is diverse. It really mirrors the general population so that if National wins an election, for example, that’s because most teachers voted that way.

      This bent the PPTA has on Charter Schools is completely and utterly without respect to teacher opinion or debate. It has always been presented in meetings as “oh and this is what we are doing on Charter schools, no discussion” when every other item on the agenda has been debated.

      The latest pay negotiations took all of TWO WEEKS until the PPTA capitulated. Why? Because pay was open to debate and discussion of the members who represent the general population who don’t want to be seen as money grabbing in a time we have to be penny pinching.

      What is left? The undebatable topics. They complain about not enough time for the process of submissions but do not make free submissions available on their website. It is, of course, as politically deceitful as you can get when your members reflect the general population.