It already is illegal, no need for new laws

Don’t you just love people who demand action and a new law when laws already exist, supposedly, to stop things like this happening:

The father of a Christchurch man who was stabbed in the head at a party says the calm demeanour of a police officer helped saved his son.

Police received multiple calls early yesterday morning about trouble brewing at a party on Flockton St.

They arrived to find a 20-year-old man had been stabbed in the head and was being supported by his father and friends.

The man underwent surgery yesterday to have the knife’s nine centimetre blade removed and was in a stable condition in Christchurch Hospital today. 

And the father’s demands:

The man’s father said his son’s friends were ”absolutely disgusted” by what had happened, but had told him it was common for young people to carry knives.

”If they didn’t have knives it wouldn’t have happened. I was at that party, I could have been stabbed, it could have been anyone.”

He now wanted to see a law change to stop people carrying dangerous weapons and to allow police to search people they suspected of carrying of knife.

”Something good has to come out of this. We’ve got to stop.

”It should be illegal for a person to carry a weapon. Why would a person be carrying a knife if they’re not planning to use it.”

News flash Einstein…it already is illegal to carry knives…but you know what…criminals don;t care about the law…that is why they are criminals.

We don’t need a new or even a special law, we already have a law…and people are ignoring it. What we need is laws that allows people to defend themselved adequately rather than waiting for the police to arrive..

 


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  • blokeintakapuna

    Hear here!

    Yep… Arm the police. Innocent, cooperative public have nothing to fear. Anyone gets what they deserve when they elect to disobey a police officers request.

    Arm the populace so they can defend themselves in their own homes. Been far too many violent home invasions against defenceless elderly and innocent people.

    A 12 gauge deterant delivered at effective close range to a midnight thief might actually wake up the judiciary and send the most appropriate message to the criminals that breaking and entering will get you an early appointment back with your maker. Cause and effect.

    Remember – its much safer asking for forgiveness from 11 of your peers, than to wish otherwise carried on the shoulders by 6 of your closest.

    If they are on your property and unwanted – especially in the early hours trying to break and enter… Then it’s perfectly reasonable to protect your family and belongings from possible rapists, murderers and thieves by any means possible. Culling the human scum should win the protector public acclaim and awards from the judiciary and police… Which would also be a great deterrent.

  • Ben

    I’m not being facetious, but is it illegal? You hear of people carrying “items” which are also used as weapons, but in all seriousness, what laws are being broken and what is the penalty for breaching those laws? I know there is a difference between buying a hunting knife and carrying it in your back pocket as you leave the sports shop and head home, but under NZ law, how is carrying a knife at a party actually differentiated? I once heard that if you were caught with a crowbar, gloves and other suspcious items during daylight, it is up to the police to prove you were using them for illegal purposes, however if it were night time, it is up to the person carrying the items to prove they were being used for legitimate purposes. Is this accurate?

    • Jimmie

      SOA 1981 13APossession of knives

      (1)Every person is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or a fine not exceeding $2,000 who, in any public place, without reasonable excuse, has any knife in his or her possession.

      also applies is Crimes Act 1961

      Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years—

      (a)who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, has with him in any public place any knife or offensive weapon or disabling substance; or

      (b)who has in his possession in any place any offensive weapon or disabling substance in circumstances that prima facie show an intention to use it to commit an offence involving bodily injury or the threat or fear of violence.

      (5)It is a defence to a charge under subsection (4)(b) if the person charged proves that he did not intend to use the offensive weapon or disabling substance to commit an offence involving bodily injury or the threat or fear of violence.

      Apologies for the cut and paste but the law is fairly self explanatory – you need to have a lawful reason for carrying the knife or offensive weapon.

      • JC

        So, does that mean Richard Prosser was breaking the law?

        JC

        • Agent BallSack

          CAA laws state:

          Objects with sharp points or sharp edges capable of being used to cause serious injury, including;

          items designed for chopping, such as axes, hatchets and cleavers

          ice axes and ice picks

          razor blades, box cutters

          knives with blades of more than 6 cm

          scissors with blades of more than 6 cm as measured from the fulcrum

          martial arts equipment with sharp points or sharp edges

          swords and sabres.

          http://www.caa.govt.nz/passengers/passengers.htm

      • Random66

        So can the police actually search anyone, anywhere if they believe that person to be carrying a concealed weapon? Do the police need more powers?

        • Jimmie

          The police do have a power of search but its limited to a reasonable suspicion that they are carrying a knife etc.

          They cant just search anyone – they have to have reasonable suspicion that they are carrying a knife etc. (Perhaps a witness who saw them carrying it or the cop can see it sticking out of their pocket)

          The cop also has to go through the drama of introducing themselves, invoking the relevant act and section, give them their bill of rights, and then searching them.

          If they dont do the above then any subsequent charges can be thrown out.

          Often though it doesn’t go to court as if they pass the attitude test the knife is confiscated and they get sent on their way with a warning.

          I remember one young guy we stopped the in the CBD had a full blown sword sticking out the top of his back pack. He passed the attitude test so we took his sword, gave him a ride home, and gave him his sword back with advice about walking around town with it at night.

          Saved a lot of paper work and he got the message that its not legal to do what he did.

          If he had failed the attitude test then we would have locked him up and sent him off to court and asked for the sword to be destroyed – but not always necessary.

          • Random66

            Thanks for that :)

          • Ben

            cheers. 3 months…. $2k…. worth the risk for an individual isn’t it? I’m sure a bit of prison time would do their name well… All a joke, that is where the law needs to change.

      • Hazards001

        yep and fair enough too.

  • ”If they didn’t have knives it wouldn’t have happened. I was at that party, I could have been stabbed, it could have been anyone.”

    What type of knife does he think people shouldn’t carry?

    I always (unless I am flying) carry my swiss army knife, sure the blade is only two thirds of what his son was stabbed with, but a 6cm blade can do enough damage, and I keep it sharp (as a blunt blade is useless). Does he want people to stop carrying them as well? I carry it because it gets used on almost a daily basis.

    What about a leatherman, they have a knife on them.

    Butter knife? they’ve have a much longer blade and despite not having a sharp point you can sharpen the blade up on the unserrated ones.

    Hunting knife? what about if you’re about to go out hunting?

    ”It should be illegal for a person to carry a weapon. Why would a person be carrying a knife if they’re not planning to use it.”

    Because sometimes people carry things like that as protection.

    I feel sorry for the man and his son, but this type of knee-jerk reaction won’t help stop the problem. next time it could be a half-brick in a sock, are we going to ban bricks and socks?

    • Hazards001

      That’s the most pathetic load of pantie waist bullshit I’ve seen in years and could only be written by a complete fucking nancy thats shit scared of his own shadow. I own a leatherman, and a skinning knife a fileting knife a fucking boning knife and I even have a greenbone knife. I have firearms of all sorts as well.

      What I don’t have is a single fucking reason why I would have any of them on me at a party or a bar…let’s see what is it..”Because sometimes people carry things like that as protection.”

      There are a number of options open to you if you feel you need “protection”. The first one is HARDEN THE FUCK UP!

      The next would be if you can’t or won’t harden up stay the fuck away from places where people might feel the need to bitch slap you or take your stuff. Stay at home and play fucking monkey geek kong or whatever it is chinless wonders do these days but leave ya fucking guns at home son…don’t take ya guns to town boy..leave them guns at home!

      • Did you forget to take your meds before posting?

        The point was there is a variety of different, legitimate, reasons why someone may have be carrying a knife on their person. The fact that someone has a knife on them does not automatically mean that they are intending to use it on someone.

        And I do know people who carry knives (and guns and tazers in other countries) for self defense. I’ve had family members have to seriously consider using weapons in situations where it is, a choice between using the weapon or be raped/tortured /beaten.
        The problem is not the knife, after all the half brick in a sock could do way more damage, the problem is the violence and how we as a society try reduce it. And no, no it isn’t something that will be solved with legislation.

        • Hazards001

          Cams post actually stated it’s already illeagal to carry a weapon in this country, mine however relates to fuckwits that think it’s ok if it’s for protection!

          I’m a law abiding citizen fuckwit and I’ve been stabbed 3 fucking times by cunts with knives. Twice in NZ and once in Australia. All three times by people that claimed they had the knife for protection and all three times they had the shit kicked out of them and were convicted.
          My right hand has no sensation around my thumb and forefinger(1st time i was stabbed in hand), and my lower right arm has no sensation just below the elbow and the wound took a lot of strenght out of my ability to lift.
          The other was in my back and was by a gutless Aussie coward. So fuck you and fuck your meds. I and peole like me can protect our selves well enough against piss weak fags that support the type of cunts that think it’s ok to go armed to a pub.
          And in case you’re wondering I was the owner of the bar in Aussie and was trying to protect my staff. The other 2 times were incidents, one involved someone I knew.

          • I’m terribly sorry you’ve been on the receiving end of a knife 3 times. But before you go on another expletive laden rant let’s compare some history.

            While I haven’t been in a knife fight I have been hijacked at gunpoint. I was lucky, they let me go unharmed. Around the same time a friend from church was hijacked, and they took him with them, after torturing him and defecating on him they lock him in a toilet while they decided how they were going to kill him…He fortunately managed to escape.

            I had a friend murdered (stabbed) because he arrived home to find someone breaking into his house. He died in his father’s arms.

            My sister carries a taser after 5 guys attempted to abduct her outside her workplace like they did to a girl the fortnight before.

            My cousin was beaten to a bloody mess a few months ago by guys who wanted her cash box.

            My wife’s brother had to stab someone in self defense who was attacking him and his wife. They were in a pub parking lot, my brother-in-law was being strangled at the time (and he was cleared of any wrong doing as it was self defence)

            My father-in-law had a shoot out a few years ago with people who let his cattle out at night in order to lure him out to attack him. Had he not had a gun to fight back with he would have been killed. (this thanks to the “one farmer one bullet” attitude certain delightful people have)

            My mother has been placed in a situation where she had choose to shoot someone or be raped and murdered by them.

            Sometimes people do legitimately carry weapons for self defense. And just because you’ve had some scum try use “carrying it for protection” as an excuse does not mean that there aren’t those who do legitimately carry a weapon of some form for self defense.

            Would I use my little Swiss army knife for protection? Not even for a second. Might I have it on me in a pub? Possibly as it’s something that lives in my pocket and gets used nearly every day and is certainly within the law as being carried for legitimate reasons.

            The point remains the majority of people who happen to have a knife on them probably have zero intention of using as a weapon (contrary to what the chap in the article claims), and true in this country very few would be carrying it for self protection. And the majority of people who happen to have a knife on them are within the law of carrying it for legitimate reasons.

            The problem is not knives. It is the violence. A knee-jerk reaction banning knives won’t stop that. And unless we as NZ society don’t start addressing that it will end up being like the country I came from where you need a weapon for self defense.

          • Hazards001

            Those are appalling stories and I hope your family are well. But to be clear your reply is exactly what I’m talking about. I’m not from Zimbabwe and am not relating experiences from there. I’m talking about NZ!

            Recent immigrants into NZ have brought with them your attitude. The “It’s OK to carry a weapon and use it if I feel threatened”

            My post is simply that I’m against it.

            There is no knee jerk reaction to carrying a knife. Unless you have a legitimate purpose for it which i totally support then you can’t have one on you. The law doesn’t need to be changed it already exists!

            As I said above and fully support you on I too often have a Leatherman on me..you use a Swiss army knife (a knife the Swiss army has never been issued by the way)

            I totally agree with the need to address violence in NZ but that wasn’t my original point. My point was…and still is…if in this country you feel you should be allowed to go out in public with a knife because you need it for protection then you are in the wrong part of town.

            From your original post
            “It should be illegal for a person to carry a weapon. Why would a person be carrying a knife if they’re not planning to use it.”
            Because sometimes people carry things like that as protection.”

            Sorry…this is NZ not Africa and I don’t agree. If you feel the need to leave home armed in this country you are the problem not the solution, stay away from those places where you don’t feel safe.

            In your own home. Totally different story.

  • peterwn

    Far better to let victims of crime or serious accidents and their nearest and dearest to get their feeling off their chests. In fairness to the father he can be hardly be criticised for not knowing the exact state of the criminal law. He is effectively saying ‘too many young people are carrying knives – society should do something about it’. If he knew the precise law on knives he would have said ‘the law is there – the cops should go out and enforce it’.

    • James Gray

      Of course the journalist, on the other hand, assuming they were worth their salt, should have researched this so that the public can be properly informed on the issue…

  • I am a crime then as I always carry a knife. Have done since I was a kid. It also has handy thing for removing stones from horse hooves. I also have a clasp knife in my laptop bag. Some people use them to commit crimes but for most of the population they are tools.

  • Jimmie

    The other wee brain wave this gentleman and his son could have had is when you go to a party where there is a lot of piss being drunk there is a high chance that someone is going to get agro and have a go at someone else.

    He could have chosen to take his son to the pub or somewhere more controlled in order to keep a degree of safety – I mean how many drunk scrotes spend there time wondering about the niceties of criminal law before they act as they do.

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