Marriage Equality in France now unstoppable

assemblee-nationale

The French National Assembly, the lower house of France’s Parliament has voted in favour of making same-sex marriage legal.

The vote held on Saturday morning was 249 in favour with 97 deputies voting against. The majority of the support for the bill came from the left, with many centrist and conservative deputies from the UMP voting against making marriage equal.  

Due to the French political system, the bill still has to be voted on in the Senate and then one more time in the General Assembly before a Decree can to be written to make it law.

But with 63% public support, and a healthy majority in the National Assembly, this bill is going to pass into law.

The French don’t do things by halves, and also have tackled the Gay Adoption issue at the same time.

Deputies voted on article one of the bill that redefines marriage as being an agreement between two people rather than just between a man and a woman. They also voted to open up adoption to same-sex married couples.

The vote follows months of debate and controversy over the issue of equal marriage and gay adoption. Further votes on the issue will continue until the 12th February 2013.

Those opposed to the bill can no longer stop it, but a filibustering process is underway to discuss no less than 5000 amendments, all  of which are expected to fail.  Amendments such as allowing a celebrant the right to refuse to marry a gay couple.

The bill has however been amended to ensure it will pass.

In what was perceived as an attempt to appease opponents to the bill, the government dropped medically assisted reproduction for lesbian couples, from the country’s upcoming bill to legalise marriage equality.

A French commentator observes

“The fear of the Conseil Constitutionnel not allowing [the bill] as a whole because of a small part was the main reason the part about assisted reproductive technology was removed from the law, as it would have actually given more rights to homosexual than heterosexual.”

“Would have been kind of ironical.”

 

 


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  • Anyone who reckons that we should do as France has done in anything political or social needs their head examined.

    The French, and the left in particular, have destroyed France.

    • pukakidon

      Wait until they become a Muslim state. It is predicted that because of Muslim birth rates in France that Muslim will be the majority religion in 20 years. Muslims dont seem to agree with this policy, probably get overturned.

  • Michael

    What an amazing debating chamber – ours looks like it was made with plastic in comparison.

    • Gayguy

      I bet a gay designed it. ;0)

  • cows4me

    Of course the socialist gits in froggyland want gay marriage. It’s a well known fact that gay couples have a larger disposable income, just the ticket if you’re a broke arse socialist outfit with a passion for taxing the shit out of the citizens.

    • Gayguy

      What a silly argument.

  • dotcom

    Puke. My cat puked too.

  • Graeme A

    Reportedly only 34% of France’s population believe in God, making it one of Europe’s most secular countries.

    The time is now right throughout the world, where a generation or more have been indoctrinated by secular teachers and professors that the gay debate is front and center of important issues in western civilization. That this change is happening in a highly secular country like France is no surprise.

    While homosexually is as old as time, none of the great thinkers of history have argued for same sex marriage, there’s always been some more pressing matter to define, debate and question. With Same Sex Marriage being such a prevalent news story these days, I can’t help but think that Western Society has lost its way somehow.

    • Alice Nikenbocker

      You’re kidding right? Homosexuality was either a non-issue throughout history or one which was considered disgusting and reviled (looking at you Europe), people didn’t argue for it because it was either irrelevant or would get you killed, not because people didn’t want to talk about it.

      It’s relevant now because we’re actually working away from our Victorian attitudes towards sexuality and marriage not because we’ve “lost our way”.

      • dotcom

        “Victorian attitudes”?. I didn’t know Queen Victoria began her reign tens of thousands of years ago, and survived till the end of the 1900s.
        But look, gay people, enjoy your day in the sun. It will not last long. You will spoil it for yourselves again, as you always do. And within not very long a time, you will be out of vogue again, where you belong, and normality will resume in which heterosexual standards, you know, those minor details that are necessary for procreation, will rise to supremacy again.
        Rest assured, I will be hugging any tree I can find, in preference to any gay this beautiful Sunday.

        • Alice Nikenbocker

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_norm

          I used the example of the Victorian era for the basis of the rationale which is still used today to debase homosexuality, and is also a part of our recent history and still has an impact on our morals, ideals etc today.

          • dotcom

            So civil union existed in Victorian times did it, Alice?

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            Uh did you even read that article I linked? Homosexuals have had times of complete acceptance. The victorian era was not good for homosexuality at all, please try properly comprehend what I’m trying to say, things are better now for sure, but we still treat homosexuals as second class citizens, it takes more than bars, legislation and parades to make a group equal to others.

            “Time you said “thanks” for once, vomit-bags.” is just evidence of how little progress has been made, expecting people to say thank you for not slaughtering homosexuals instead resorting to using institutionalised and socialised oppression. We hardly treat homosexuals as equals stop acting like there is no progress to be made or that homosexuals have a level playing field.

            I’m not playing the victim, but it’s obvious from the comments here and your attitudes alone that show there are victims of your childish behaviour.

            Please crawl back under the rock, you obviously have nothing intelligent to say.

          • dotcom

            Did I read that article you linked? No. You keep telling me you will not be arguing with me any more, but you expect me to follow your links? And YOU are calling ME a 10-year -old? Didn’t read to past the first sentence of your latest either. No doubt it would have been more arguing that you were not going to do with me the 10-y-o. God you’re annoying, Alice.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            So I take it this is your way of say “I’m not listening”

            Since you’re not even going to read it here are examples of homosexuality being accepted within cultures throughout history from the article itself.

            “Homosexual and transgender individuals were also common among other pre-conquest civilizations in Latin America, such as the Aztecs, Mayans, Quechuas, Moches, Zapotecs, and the Tupinambá of Brazil.[9][10]”

            “Homosexuality in Japan, variously known as shudo or nanshoku, has been documented for over one thousand years and had some connections to the Buddhist monastic life and the samurai tradition. This same-sex love culture gave rise to strong traditions of painting and literature documenting and celebrating such relationships.

            Similarly, in Thailand, Kathoey,
            or “ladyboys,” have been a feature of Thai society for many centuries,
            and Thai kings had male as well as female lovers. While Kathoey may encompass simple effeminacy or transvestism, it most commonly is treated in Thai culture as a third gender.
            They are generally accepted by society, and Thailand has never had
            legal prohibitions against homosexuality or homosexual behavior.”

            Why do you even bother talking to other humans you seem to lack basic skills required for discussion, could you please refrain from making our species look dumber than it already does. I’m sorry if not being bigoted is annoying, but if you stopped acting like a child I wouldn’t have to call you out on it.

            Toodles.

          • dotcom

            Once again, not read. But addressed to me, so acknowledged. It’d be rude not to.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            Just like my nephew when I’m telling him it’s good to eat vegetables.

          • dotcom

            See there you go, doing that off-topic thing again. Don’t know about you, but the rest of us were talking about the French passing gay marriage law.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            I’m sorry but if you act like a child I’m free to point it out, I’ve made my points. Which you ignored, like a child would. You aren’t capable of holding an intelligent discussion about homosexuality, why would your opinion on this article be valid anyway?

          • dotcom

            Vive la France!

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            Se développer.

          • dotcom

            Again, with the same thing. Do you have anything to contribute on topic? You keep telling me you won’t argue with me. But you can’t stop it. You are doing your gay cause no good with this incessant boring rant at me. Stop hating, hater. By all means comment on topic, but stop this hateful trolling, as was alluded for you to do, the other day, by moderator Travis.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            The other day? I think you have me confused with someone else. Am I not the first to call you a child? Is this a trend?

            Why do you only respond to my insults and not the bulk of my argument?

            Hateful? That’s rich coming from a homophobe.

            Reply to my argument like an adult and I will treat you like one.

          • dotcom

            What argument? You call your rant at me an argument? Stop trolling my comments. Comment on the topic. I am not the topic. I don’t want to be the topic. You are making me the topic. Post on topic or don’t post at all. You are a boring waste of internet space.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            Please do not breed (although I’m sure your hardheaded and bigoted personality has already acted as a sufficient contraceptive).

            I’m trying to say homosexuality isn’t some abnormal thing or a form of behaviour that will “have it’s time in the sun” and that homosexuals are not “ungrateful vomit-bags”. But your childish attitude is preventing any actual discussion.

            ” Also, I haven’t read past the first sentence of your latest above either.”

            “Once again, not read. But addressed to me, so acknowledged. It’d be rude not to.”

            That is a childish reaction to a differing opinion. Then you only get inflamed or respond properly when I call you a child, you’re either thicker than your layer of blubber or trolling.

          • dotcom

            Stop trolling my comments. Leave my comments alone. I am not the topic of the thread. By all means comment on the topic. Stop trolling my comments.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            Homosexuality is definitely on-topic, you said something bigoted and stupid on my comment and I repsponded. Now you want me to go away? Learn to think about what you say and take responsibility for your actions (that’s something you learn to do when you grow up).

          • dotcom

            stop trolling..

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            But you’re the troll, if you think what I’m doing is trolling, you must be the troll.

          • dotcom

            Stop trolling.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            God, I’m surprised even whaleoil puts up with this amount of stupidity.

          • dotcom

            Stop trolling …

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            Is this what they call spam?

          • dotcom

            I am allowing people who care, to see what perverts, you gay types are. I have asked you repeatedly to stop stalking my posts, but you don’t know how to stop. You are very sick. Now leave me alone. Is this how you behave with 10-year-olds in your own neighbourhoods? I’m sure this is a reflection of your real life. You are one dangerous trolling stalker.

            Stop stalking my comments.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            GG I don’t even know how to respond to such astounding stupidity. Do you even understand how the internet works let alone responding to people’s comments?

          • dotcom

            Stop stalking my comments, pervert.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            But you’re the one stalking my comments, this wouldn’t have happened if you didn’t hunt out my other comments.

          • dotcom

            Liar and stalker. Liar and stalker. Stop stalking the comments of someone you identify with as being a 10-year-old. Pervert. Is you dick in you hand while you stalk me. How many times have you cum already, pervert?

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            Right now this is getting disgusting, thanks for being a mature adult about this. Please heed my advice and not vote and/or breed. Your opinions are better off in the school yard where they came from.

          • dotcom

            Okay. You pushed me beyond my limits. Alice. I just got in my car and went to the local public toilets, where two gay men are now lying and probably dying. Because of your interminable badgering of me, you drove my dislike of gays to where you set out for it to go. You drove me from disliking of you, to unbearable hatred of you. And I just took it out vicariously on two poor dirty public toilet dwellers loitering in my local public toilets without any condoms, promising bareback to me for free. You caused this Alice. You brought hatred upon not only yourself as a gay hugger, but on all gay people who have read this thread thus far.

          • MODERATION HAT ON (I”ll reply the same to both so you both get a copy)

            Right. I’ve got two kids, 10 and 6, and this is pretty much what I have to deal with every day, so here goes:

            Both of you, I don’t care who started it, I don’t care who’s to blame. This stops now. And if it doesn’t you both go to your rooms.

            dotdom, I personally value your presence on the blog, but you’re having a bad day. I don’t care that your views differ. In fact, I invite healthy debate here and would act to have anyone that stops it dealt to.

            However, this lot of posts is not your best. Walk away for the day, if needed.

            This is what happens now for both of you: You no longer comment on this particular Post. And you will not reply to EACH OTHER on any of the others posts for at least a week. If you can’t show that amount of self control, I will enforce a week holiday on you.

            What happens from here is now entirely in your own hands.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            Eh I called him a 10 year old, which when you say stuff like “Very soon the 10 or so gay New Zealanders who actually want to get married” isn’t that harsh or irrelevant, he tried to argue with me but kept acting like a child, I guess I lost my patience a little but tried to end it there, he then found my other comments and started commenting as if trying to argue, you saw how it ended.

            TBQH if this is how usual discourse happens here, I don’t think you’ll need to worry about me anymore.

          • If you could make such a majestic personal sacrifice, then I would appreciate it. You’re welcome back any time mind you. But it would have to be for reasons other than to drive other users to the point where they drop their standards. I don’t appreciate what you’ve done here today. If you’re interested in coming back, please don’t be destructive in your “who me?” passive aggressive way. The point was well made early in the piece, and you could have left it there. If you can do that next time, then I’ll be happy to have you add your views to this place.

          • pukakidon

            You are both as bad as each other. You both need a smack on the bottom and sent to the naughty corner. Grow up

          • Mr_Blobby

            What didn’t you understand about Shut The Fuck Up.

          • dotcom

            No problem. Consider it done.

          • Appreciate it.

          • dotcom

            See you in a week. Enjoy.

          • Gayguy

            Be sure not to come back.

          • dotcom is just as welcome as you are. I’ll thank you for not making things worse.

            For the record, at this stage I don’t think Alice and Gayguy is the same person. But then I really didn’t want to spend the time tracking IP numbers through VPN obfuscation, so that’s only the result of a once-over-lightly review.

          • Gayguy

            Yes, it is always good for homophobic poorly educated fools to blather on. Lets the good decent folk know they are doing the right thing.

          • It’s very easy. Don’t engage them. Deny them the oxygen that a reply provides.

            Once you engage them, then don’t complain you don’t like the result.

          • dotcom

            Sorry. One last word to leave you with as I go on holiday.
            “Sorry”.

          • dotcom

            No problem consider it done. Please take into account that Alice is Gayguy, and Gayguy is Alice.

          • Gayguy

            Wrong as usual DC.

          • MODERATION HAT ON (I”ll reply the same to both so you both get a copy)

            Right. I’ve got two kids, 10 and 6, and this is pretty much what I have to deal with every day, so here goes:

            Both of you, I don’t care who started it, I don’t care who’s to blame. This stops now. And if it doesn’t you both go to your rooms.

            dotdom, I personally value your presence on the blog, but you’re having a bad day. I don’t care that your views differ. In fact, I invite healthy debate here and would act to have anyone that stops it dealt to.

            However, this lot of posts is not your best. Walk away for the day, if needed.

            This is what happens now for both of you: You no longer comment on this particular Post. And you will not reply to EACH OTHER on any of the others posts for at least a week. If you can’t show that amount of self control, I will enforce a week holiday on you.

            What happens from here is now entirely in your own hands

          • dotcom

            Gay pervert. Gay pervert stalker. Leave my comments alone. Stop stalking my comments.

          • Gayguy

            He never changes. He has a most interesting take on the history of AIDS.

          • This isn’t stalking you idiot…you make inflammatory comments about gay people and then react liked a pussy whipped pansy when they smack you back in the face. HTFU

          • Your incessant whining is…well…gay

          • dotcom

            So my comments are childish. Does this leave you with no choice but to persue my underdeveloped sexuality. Pervert.

          • Travis Poulson

            With respect Alice you’re the one doing the trolling. Engage the debate instead of the person. If you can’t address the main topic without attacking those commenting on it then fuck off. Lift your game or you may end up being removed.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            To be honest I thought at least made some salient points, unlike Dotcom. Not sure why I am the one in the wrong, if this dotcom guy is a regular poster surely he should know better.

          • Travis Poulson

            You both have room for improvement as far as the quality of the debate goes. Attacking each other detracts from your own arguments, which is defeating the purpose isn’t it?

          • dotcom

            Why are you so obsessed with commenting on someone whom you are convinced is a 10-y-o. Do you always follow 10-y-olds around? Pervert. Leave my comments alone. Comment as much as you like on topic. I am not the topic. You are doing only bad to your cause. You are a downright embarrassment and disgrace to homosexuals. Pervert. Leave me alone.

          • Travis Poulson

            You whinging, snivelling, bucket of cold sick.

            You need to lift your game if you are going to be complaining about how others are speaking to you. I see nothing but a troll fest in the comments below, from both sides.

          • dotcom

            “You whinging, snivelling, bucket of cold sick”. Quoted completely out of context, – one retort after repeatedly asking someone to stop stalking my comments. I talk on topic. And I hate becoming the only topic of the thread.

            I am aware the you moderators dislike my point of view, but you invite debate. I don’t have control over someone else making me the topic of the thread. Thank you for putting a stop to Alice’s incessant tirade. It is an ugly side to your blog, that people are free to unlimited flamebaiting off topic; then you point the finger at the subject of the flamebaiting. I have no more desire to be the topic of the debate, than you want me to be the topic. But if you keep inviting people to comment on gay marriage every second day, then people are going to comment. And by far the majority of debate here is sided against gay marriage in NZ.

            I enjoy robust argument against me. I don’t enjoy being the topic, just because I share an opinion with 95 percent of all human beings who ever lived.

          • Travis Poulson

            “I am aware the you moderators dislike my point of view, but you invite debate.”

            And debate it what we’re after, not a troll fest. My opinion of your point of view is irrelevant. I don’t care what you or the others commenters think, it’s how you conduct the..dare I say it…debate. You’re both guilty of it, neither one is worse than the other. You’ve both been warned, you just need to scroll a bit further down the page.

            It’s one thing to give someone a one off slapping for a comment, but continually feeding each other in the spat detracts from the topic. People come here to read the debate, and they see all this shit.

          • dotcom

            Agree completely Travis, and I totally accept these terms.

            I guarantee you that for my part, I will never be referring to someone as a 10-year-old, as was seen repeatedly on this thread today. Nor will I be making sport of the fact that a commenter’s parents are already dead.

            Meantime, you will see that Alice, in her alter ego Gayguy, is pressing on regardless in the same mode, even as you and I, Travis, speak.

            There seem to be different rules for Gayguy. So be it. I can handle different rules for gay men. I’m well used to it by now. It is 2013 after all.

        • Gayguy

          You and your flawed knowledge of history never fail to make me laugh,

  • Andrei

    Another really good idea the new French Socialist Government had was to lower the retirement age to 60

    Pity the country is bankrupt otherwise I’m sure it would be nirvana

  • dotcom

    This is great news for New Zealand. Very soon the 10 or so gay New Zealanders who actually want to get married, will be able to make a quick trip up to Noumea, get married, moon their honey, and it’s done.
    And New Zealand will have no more single gays requiring any legislation changes.

    • Alice Nikenbocker

      Are you 10 years old? Do your parents know what you say on the internet?

      • dotcom

        No, and no, Alice. And my parents have long-since died of old age. Were you thinking about commenting on the topic?

        • Alice Nikenbocker

          Well there is obviously no intelligent discussion to be had with someone who’s parents died of old age yet has the capacity of a 10 year old.

          • Gazzaw

            I think maybe Gayguy has had a name change dotcom.

          • dotcom

            Good spotting, Gazz.

          • BR

            Perhaps he calls himself Alice when he’s sitting in front of his computer in his frilly knickers and bunny slippers.

            Bill.

          • Gayguy

            Not surprising you would agree with something that is factually incorrect.

          • dotcom

            So how come your comment count reverted to 0 this afternoon, Gayguy, while you were cross-dressing?

          • Gayguy

            No old fella. Different email every day.

            Technically I have a new profile every day.

          • Gayguy

            Not me. Although I do see the same pattern from DC when he is pushed into a corner by his own dumbass inaccurate facts. He gets all aggressive insists that the person is off topic, then has a childish tanty,

            Very DC.

          • dotcom

            I guess that’s a “no” then, to commenting on topic.

          • Alice Nikenbocker

            I’m not going to argue with someone who behaves like a child no. But I’ve commented elsewhere on comments made by people who seem capable of rational and adult thoughts.

          • dotcom

            Good. I look forward to your not arguing with me.

          • Oh go on, argue with him all you like and really bring out the inner child

          • dotcom

            Just when it looked like being the shortest gay thread in WOBH history, Cam, you had to go and bring intellect into the conversation. Ummm.

          • Gayguy

            Well when you are involved in a thread about gay rights, any hope of an intellectual fact filled conversation goes right out the window as soon as you post your first comments.

          • dotcom

            But WOBH comment count goes through the roof, when I appear on the scene.

          • Gayguy

            Inaccurate comments about gay rights and history should never go uncommented on.

            You should always tell someone (IE you) that they are a fool. If they carry on being a fool, at least the truth is out there.

          • Gayguy

            You sure as hell have not been.

  • BR

    “The majority of the support for the bill came from the left”

    Of course it came from the left. Where the hell else would it have come from?

    Bill.

    • Gayguy

      That is correct, the left has always been ahead of the ball when it comes to equal rights.

      • Travis Poulson

        The only thing ahead of the balls on the left is another socialist bent over.

      • I think you mean “ahead of the ball when it comes to government involvement.” If equal rights come out of this, great, but the thing is, they won’t actually. Oh, for gay people, yes, but not for everybody. Because now the French will have to play the same game of whack-a-mole that every other country that decided people need special government permission to love someone else have to play. Next up: polyamorous people, which we can all work on for the next 20 years until achieving the “victory” of more government involvement, all while the left (and some on the right too) simultaneously considering the idea of abandoning marriage licenses altogether somehow absurd. At the most basic level, what’s truly absurd is that consenting people of ANY description need ANY kind of special permission for ANYTHING from the people who wear the funny robes.

        • Gayguy

          Oh the slippery slope argument.

          Yawn.

  • Pissedoffyouth

    So after gays get marriage and adoption, will they settle down? Or will Gayguy come here and crusade about other crap?

    • Gayguy

      Deporting people like you to Iran might be the next big thing to go for.

      • Pissedoffyouth

        Deport straight people to Iran? Are you being heterophobic?

        • Gayguy

          Not at all. I said people like you.

          Homophobic haters. You will be much happier there anyway. They don’t have gays.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            I haven’t once said I’m homophobic.

          • Gayguy

            Your posts have for you.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            example?

          • Gayguy

            Like I said. Your posts.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            Like I said – evidence please.

          • Gayguy

            And like I said – your posts.

          • pukakidon

            This is the same ole same ole from Kosh aka Gayguy. A lot of rhetoric and no substance.

  • grumpy

    Good on them……maybe a couple of poofs could get married until sharia law comes in the next few years and they start hanging poofs from cranes like Iran.
    Looking through the marriage register would be a good place for the ayatollahs to start….

    • Gayguy

      Why would sharia law come in in France?

      • grumpy

        Because the muslin population will be the majority before the middle of this century.
        Demographics!

        • Gayguy

          Hmmm, we will see.

          • Andrei

            Hmmm, we will see.

            Yes, we will but there are some very ominous signs

            There are nearly 150 mosques now under construction in France, and by contrast only 20 new Catholic churches have been built in the past decade, while 60 churches have been closed – in some cases, to be converted into mosques.

          • Gayguy

            It would be quite a transformation if France ends up a Muslim country

          • Andrei

            All of the Middle East was Christian once upon a time Gg, including the modern Nations of Egypt and Syria along with the Levant, Last to fall was what is now Turkey in 1453.

            Moslems got all the way to Vienna before they were repelled and pushed back.

            They held Southern Spain for about 700 years as well and were prevented from over running France by Charles Martel.

            It was the Serbs, the Poles and the Russians that saved Europe from their depredations during the last 500 years

          • Gayguy

            In this day and age I still see it as being in the prob won’t happen realms.

            I could be quite wrong, but we will just have to wait and see.

          • Gayguy

            Interesting I get voted down for not agreeing that France will become a Muslim country. Kinda proves what I though about particular people on here

          • grumpy

            Everyone know that all of Europe will be muslim in 50 years.

            That will be the end of homosexuality. A mere blip in the human continuum

          • Gayguy

            And I do not agree.

  • Mr_Blobby

    So what France along with the rest of the Euro zone is economically fucked. They know it but nobody can accept it. La La Land viva the La la Land.

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