Poll: Parliamentary term and fixed election date

The Prime Minister John Key has repeated his wish for a 4 year parliamentary term, with pre-set election day.  Have your vote on this issue now, and tell us why in the comments.

john-key-729-620x349

via: SMH

Length of the NZ Parliamentary Term

  • Make it 4 years (82%, 327 Votes)
  • Keep it at 3 years (17%, 68 Votes)
  • Something else (1%, 3 Votes)

Total Voters: 398

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Fixed election date

  • Yes (82%, 295 Votes)
  • No (18%, 64 Votes)

Total Voters: 359

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  • LesleyNZ

    Excellent wish.

  • David Broome

    Yes to a four year term regardless of whomever is in power. It is sufficient time to run a programme. Let us face it the first 12 months is learning the bureaucracy and prepping, the next 12 is spent implementing or doing stuff and the final 12 is spent avoiding anything that gives offense.

    Four years doubles ‘doing stuff’ to two years (it makes government 50% more ‘effective’ but I use that word in a government sense!).

    Where the PM goes wrong is a fixed election date. There are too many variables for that to work and messes up the chances of a tactical snap elections. When it comes to elections the guiding principle is SNAFU or as von Moltke the elder correctly observed “no plan survives contact with the enemy”.

  • johnbronkhorst

    great idea. But would make election day “fixed” to the first Saturday in November of the 4th year.

  • BJ

    Only if this 4 year term can be applied to Nationals current term.(yeh I know that can’t happen) The opposition getting in next year for four years doesn’t bear thinking about.

    A four year term would give the elected government time to settle in, implement policies, tweek and gage their merits while voters will have to be patient long enough to give things a fair go so their next vote at the polls is not just a knee-jerk reaction but an informed one on how effective governance has been.

    • StupidDisqus

      I know that can’t happen

      Of course it can happen. Key just changes the electoral act and dares the police and army to remove him. Fuck the economic mess we’re in has been serious enough for that since ’08.

  • Great idea. National will be kicked out next election, the longer they are kept from the levers of power the better. Key, worst PM ever.

    • In Vino Veritas

      Andrew, it appears your grasp of politics and judgement of a quality PM is risible. Perhaps if the previous Prime Minister hadn’t saddled future Governments from 2008 with permanet structural deficits, then things might be going a little better. And this one fact would put her high on the list of worst Prime Ministers in modern history in NZ.

      • Your defense of this PM (worst ever) is risible. Still blaming Clark for Keys failures 4+ years on?

        • In Vino Veritas

          What part of “permanent structural deficit” don’t you understand Andrew? Surely you cannot be that stupid?

          It is probably pertinent to point out that (1) Key is the most popular PM in many years and (2) National are still polling around 47%. These numbers would suggest they are doing a lot right, and that your view is out of kilter with reality.

          • StupidDisqus

            And the billions we are borrowing – and the permanent deficit that is far higher than even Klark managed – is precisely whose damn fault?

            Ruth showed what you could do with just one budget. Key’s had four and done absolutely nothing

            if we’d had Ruth – or Brash – we wouldn’t have benefits, dole, DPB, state schools, state hospitals, ACC, EQC, or any of the rest of the totally unaffordable socialist mollycoddling that Key uses to buy his 47% of the vote with borrowed money

        • Dumrse

          I could have sworn he was blaming Clark for Clark’s fuck ups. And yes, they still linger.

          • StupidDisqus

            Linger – a wowser word when Klark & Kullen succesfully undid not just every one of Ruth’s reforms – but every one of Roger’s before them.

            Name one of the 84 or 91 reforms that is still here: you can’t.

            There’s a whole fucking list somewhere on the interweb. What has Key done – oh that’s right: nothing. hope. simple. wave.

            State School, State House, DPB Kid.

        • Hazards001

          Just like your avatar..a pic of a lazy bastard doing f all..lets be clear on this…”Still blaming Clark for Keys failures 4+ years on?”

          Clark and Cullen’s diabolical use of taxpayer funds to keep themselves in power for 9 years and to further the hell bitches run to the UN has got to be one of the most erroneous and vapid usages of the NZ people in all of parliaments history.
          I’m no economist but at the time I was trying to point out to anyone that would listen that the constant vote buying she did would have nothing but negative effects on the NZ economy.

          You are clearly one of those that will be affected by the concept of working for a living and have no clear concept (or care) of the damage the she beast and her dominatrix GF along with the only finance minister in the history of NZ that’s sole qualification in finance was buying one house in St Kilda 40 years earlier have done to our economy. As a prudent person I was putting some money away for a rainy day..as best I could as your lot we’re trying to grasp as much of it as you could.
          Clark and co of course were spending up large via interest free student loans and working for families.
          So now we have the fiscal fuckup you want to lay at Jk’s feet but in reality along with novapay and many other fuckups belong firmly at the feet of the troughers that instigated them!

          • StupidDisqus

            Fact: Cullen cut taxes harder and faster than Key every did.

            Fact: Key has not changed any significant policies of Hellens. Not one.

          • And as a result his approval ratings continue to be high. It seems to be what the public want of him.

            The community surrounding this blog, by and large, would prefer Key to act like a National PM instead of dancing around the edges.

            But you can’t have it both ways SD – either Key is crap, or he’s just about as good as Helen Clark, yes?

      • Mr Sackunkrak

        Andrew clearly likes the Red Team. For no apparent reason, least not one he can articulate. This is what happens when television is saturated with cooking/renovation/orienteering comeptition programming.

      • StupidDisqus

        2008 with permanet structural deficits

        What the FUCK is that to do with Key? It’s his responsibility now!

        He should have rammed through an emergency budget in December 2008 that would have cut taxes – eliminated all corporate taxes for a start – and ended the deficit by terminating welfare from the Dole to the DPB to Super to ACC to WFF to state schools/hospitals/GPs.

        Everyone knew then – and knows now – that’s what needed to be done.

        And still Key & co insist that 1+1 = 10, that the world is flat, that NZ’s welfare economy is sustainable. We flush a billion dollars a week down the crapper on welfare, another billion on “education” and “health”, and borrow most of those billions from overseas.

        It is well over the time that that stopped. Not in 2014. Not in 2013. Today!

        Can you imagine how different, how successful, how much better NZ would have been had a Ruth Richardson style budget been enacted back in ’80?

    • BJ

      Please expand, sighting specific examples to illustrate your belief that John Key is the worst PM ever and that we would be better off without National. I really want to understand your views but you give little clue as to how you come to this conclusion.

      • StupidDisqus

        We still have:
        – unions
        – benefits
        – state schools
        – state houses
        – state hospitals
        – WFF
        – ACC
        – EQC
        – civil servants
        – unarmed wimpy police

        But NZ is facing the worst financial crisis in its history – yes, worse than the 1930s depression which only lasted about 4 years in NZ; looks like we’re heading towards the “long depression” of 1870-1890.

        Every reputable economist has been demanding a return to the successful policies of Ruth’s 1991 budget – and finishing the job – as the only way to restore NZ – to finally undo the damage of the First Labour Government and end, once and for all, NZ’s utterly unsustainable welfare state.

        What did Key do? What policy of Hellen’s did Key change

        Absolutely none

        Hellen Klark and Michael Cullen cut taxes harder and faster than the State House Kid and the Karori Farmer have ever done.

        • LesleyNZ

          “But NZ is facing the worst financial crisis in its history – yes, worse than the 1930s depression which only lasted about 4 years in NZ; looks like we’re heading towards the “long depression” of 1870-1890.”
          Don’t think so. The 1930’s depression was a real “depression”. Doubt if many kids will have their clothes made out of flour sacks – like they did in the 1930’s depression.

          • StupidDisqus

            Looking at either the govt or the national accounts, NZ’s fiscal position is worse now than it was in 1934. Five years after the great depression NZ was well on the way to recovery, five years after the great financial crisis we are still heading downhill.

            Doubt if many kids will have their clothes made out of flour sacks – like they did in the 1930’s depression.

            Right: and that’s the problem with NZ: kids aren’t having clothes made out of four sacks – they have all the latest kit imported from China!

            The question is why not? The answer is that those kids clothes (and houses, and schools, and hospitals and and and) are all paid for by massive taxation (highest effective rates in the OEDC) topped up by massive borrowing. When NZ either chooses to return to responsible policies – or more likely is forced to by the simple mathematics of the vastly unsustainable budget crisis – then kids will be back to flour sacks.

            But when the chickens come home to roost, everything will be much, much worse than the 1930s because we’ve been living in a dreamworld for so long,

          • LesleyNZ

            I see where you are coming from – especially about the kids clothes. Can’t argue with that. Sum it all up – we like too much “stuff” – we gotta have it now – instantly these days. A majority of the present generation wouldn’t know what it was like to wait patiently for “stuff’. Instead of saving money – spend spend spend = indulgence. Maybe going through a 1930’s depression would make us appreciate how well off we actually are. Never realised how important those Tuesday school banking days were – taught me how to save.

        • BJ

          If National gets another term I believe we will see some radical changes – they just need to coax things past the election start line – be patient.

    • starboard

      Helen…I see you’ve changed your name..at least now you have the gender correct.

      • Ad hominem comments? Is that the best you can do in defense of the worst NZ PM ever?

        • starboard

          Get over it Helen..we won you lost, eat that..

          • Zinger!

          • BJ

            I’m trying to understand your view Andy – may I call you that -but you’re not helping me much so I’ll start with some questions. Are you Andrew Wheeler – the business professional, Andrew Wheeler – the student or Andrew Wheeler – the basketball player that was charged with assault and got home detention? When you’ve answered that one I can ask some more specific ones – because its like trying to find hens teeth – getting your take on things.

          • BJ

            Andy – Last question – have you gone away now or are you just having trouble coming up with an answer as to why you think John Key is the worst NZ PM ever?

          • Gazzaw

            Are you capable of more than a one liner and a ‘down’ click Andrew?

        • manuka416

          Ad hominem? I had to look that up. Uh-oh, big-word troll.

        • BJ

          Again. Seriously. I invite you to share with this captive audience why that is your view. Here is your chance to sway some of us.

        • LesleyNZ

          No no no – you are so wrong Andrew – short memory. The worst PM has to be Helen Clark. Social Engineering, Privvy Council, lightbulbs, showerheads and Knighthoods.

          • In Vino Veritas

            signing paintings that weren’t hers, missappropriation of public money, increasing Government spending by 60%, buying Kiwi Rail back, to name a few more Lesley.
            PS: and now in trouble with the UN for not delivering anything on her program. Sort of like what she did for NZ when PM.

        • johnbronkhorst

          To add to the list of labour failings. Record hospital waiting lists, 70% increase in power prices (3% above inflation year on year for 9 years), apart from hip hop tours, spending on education programmes that didn’t exist.

  • sheppy

    Weird one this, longer time for national to undo the lefts damage but more time for the left to inflict that damage. On balance more time for the left to annoy enough people and pick their pockets noticeably enough to get them voted out after one term

  • peterwn

    Fixed election date? What happens if the Government loses confidence or decides to sall a snap election? Possibilities:

    1. Following snap election Parliament sits until the next pre-determined election date even if it is only months away.

    2. Following snap election, Parliament sits for 3.5 to 4.5 years until pre-determined election date.

    The only ‘snap’ or ‘early’ elections in the last 50 or so years were Muldoon’s 1984 snap election (IMO he had run out of budget options, but blamed it on Marilyn Waring’s stroppiness) and Clark’s 2002 early election (IMO to catch National out with the 3 month expenditure limits), but these did not upset the traditional three year cycle. One secondary issue to be sorted is whether local bodies should also move to a four year cycle to avoid Parliamentary and local body elections in the same year.

  • Patrick

    Before this is even considered the funding of parties needs to be exposed, we continuosly here Mallard whining about American Bagmen, Peters with his snide accusations but nothing has been done about the Unions’ diverting membership subscriptions or Peters taking backhanders from wealthy mates looking for favours. Until all that is exposed & controlled there is no level playing field – & I am most definitely not advocating for (any greater) taxpayer funding of political parties.

  • redeye

    Great picture. Doesn’t he look statesman like.

    No wonder poor Andrew is upset.

    • fozzie2

      It is one thing to look like a statesman, but another to act like one.

      “Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man’s character, give him power” Abraham Lincoln …. Mr Key fails the character test – he would sell out his own grandmother for a trip to Hollywood or his mates in the financial markets.

  • Jimmie

    How about 3 year terms for Labour governments and 4 year terms for National governments? Be alright with me?

    How about changing the vote so that beneficiaries (and green party members) votes only count for half a vote?

    Hmm making more sense by the minute!

    • StupidDisqus

      Idiot: how about 10 year terms for National, and Labour/Greens/Unions banned

      How about changing the vote so that beneficiaries (and green party members) votes only count for half a vote?

      Why should they get to vote at all? The contribute nothing, they are worth nothing. But not just bludgers: codgers, Labour, Unionists, any public servants or contractors whose income is more than 50% from taxes or rates.

      no representation without taxation

  • Gazzaw

    Normally I would go along with a four year term but with no safeguard checks in place ie an Upper House and an APOLITICAL written Constitution I would be concerned about what a lousy government could achieve with that extra year in power.

    • StupidDisqus

      Fuck that! The only advantage of NZ’s current arrangements are no “unrepresentative swill” in the upper house.

  • Whafe

    Where is Andrew Wheeler?????????
    Run away and hid
    Andrew you may well need to be in this thread: http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/02/feeding-trolls-can-be-fun-but-which-ones-do-you-feed/

  • Steve (North Shore)

    How about only private sector taxpayers get a vote. Public Servants miss out because they are owned by Labour – especialy Teachers

    • StupidDisqus

      Simple conflict of interest: anyone paid on the public tit – public servants, teachers, etc, and contractors to govt – have a huge conflict of interests.

      Even as recently as the 1970s senior public servants (or those hoping for senior jobs) simply didn’t vote: their job was to serve the public and the government of the day. That idea has totally gone out of the window with the so-called public service basically being Labour & the Greens at work!

      Only net private sector taxpayers get a vote. Civil servants, budgers, wffers, codgers and the rest – no representation without taxation

  • StupidDisqus

    I’d prefer a 10 year term, one term max serving as PM, two terms max serving as a minister.

    Only nett taxpayers / property owners vote – corporates and Iwi can vote as they are taxpayers.

    After the “election” – a single list for the whole country – the winning party appoints a cabinet of no more than 10 ministers including the PM. That’s it – only 10 MPs and all minsters. They run the country for the next 10 years. End of story.

    PM can fire any minster whenever they want, then he gets to appoint anyone in their place.

    • Hazards001

      There it is again..nett taxpayer…now no bullshit I want to know…WHAT THE FUCK IS A NETT TAXPAYER? Because it sounds like a load of wanker gobbley gook to me…I asked yoni when she used the term but she refused to answer me,,,twice..so Mr Economist..what is a nett taxpayer?. Note..I’ve been self employed or a an employee my entire life ever since I left school..so do enlighten me…

      • This is my personal understanding of the term.

        A Net Tax Payer is someone whose total taxes paid to the state through all forms of direct taxation exceeds the total of government assistance received from the state.

        People in full-time employment, or self-employment, can be beneficiaries. Working for Families comes to mind.

        So the idea behind a Net Tax Payer is that if you put more money into the pot than you are taking out, you get a vote as to how that money is spent via the election of the government of the day.

        The idea behind it is that people who do not contribute to the pot and are dependent on the Government and it is inferred they would vote for a type of Government that sustains or increases their take from the pot.

        A bit like giving children an equal vote about how pocket money should be awarded when there are three children and two parents, the idea behind Net Tax Payers not having a vote is the idea that they lose the right to decide now to run the country when they aren’t able to be a (net) financial contributor to running it.

        As prisoners lose the right to vote, the concept of removing this right under certain circumstances already exists in law.

        • StupidDisqus

          People in full-time employment, or self-employment, can be beneficiaries.

          yep. and in NZ something like 90% of ’em are.

          Working for Families comes to mind. Some people would also add people who are paid by the state, such as (most) Teachers, Police, Nurses, etc.

          not Police or the Army, but basically yep. Plus anyone who doesn’t have full private health insurance (or else who relies on the public system as backup), anyone who ever attended a state school or sends their kids to a state school, anyone who was ever in a state house or who got a housing benefit. They don’t get to vote or stand for election to any public office. Yes that includes the current state-house-kid PM. The principle is quite clear.

          As prisoners lose the right to vote, the concept of removing this right under certain circumstances already exists in law.

          Voting is a privilege, not a right. No representation without taxation!
          Those who are or have been or who may become dependent on the state have not earned that privilege.

          • BJ

            In other words a net tax payer is someone that has tax deducted from what they have actually earnt through their own labour and pays their own way without subsidy or handout

          • StupidDisqus

            Abso-fucking-lutely.

  • During the searching for a car wreckers blog, I got this, though I don’t have any business with the above writing, but I really enjoying the discussion.

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