UK Equal marriage bill approved by 400 votes to 175

Credit: Luke MacGregor/Reuters

Credit: Luke MacGregor/Reuters

The Gay Marriage debate is all over bar the shouting.

Although they do some quaint ceremonial shouting during a vote  

I really don’t see the discussion about Marriage Equality in New Zealand reach any sort of genuine controversy. It’s over before it has begun.

Oh, don’t get me wrong, the usual media outlets will try and whip it up into a paper-selling frenzy, and the usual players will play their parts, but in essence, here too, the Marriage Equality bill will pass.

The Guardian’s Andrew Sparrow summarises:

Britain is on course to adopt gay marriage after the House of Commons voted to give the marriage (same sex couples) bill a second reading by a majority of 225. The bill will still have to receive line-by-line scrutiny in the Commons, and then it will have to get through the Lords, but the size of the majority, and the fact that the leaders of all three main parties are in favour, suggests that it is now inevitable that gay marriage will become law. The legal differences between civil partnerships and marriage are slight (see section one of this briefing document for more detail), but gay and lesbian campaigners have demanded full equality and now they are on course to get it. Church leaders and traditionalists have expressed concerns about a centuries-old institution being redefined, but those in favour of reform claim their fears are unfounded. Ben Summerskill, the chief executive of Stonewall, has said this is a historic step foward.

As the last piece of the legislative jigsaw providing equality for gay people in Britain, this is a truly historic step forward. We’re absolutely delighted that MPs have demonstrated so overwhelmingly that they’re in touch with the twenty-first century.

• David Cameron has failed to persuade more than half of his MPs to support gay marriage. Only 127 Tory MPs supported it. Another 136 opposed it, and 40 MPs either voted both ways (actively abstaining) or did not vote. The five-hour long debate was generally conducted in a civil manner (perhaps Tory MPs have realised quite how damaging all the recent stories about splits have been), but the row has clearly generated a bitter row within the party and the repercussions are likely to be felt for some time, not least because the “rebels” intend to try to wreck the bill as it continues its passage through the Commons.

Captursde

• Ministers now face the tricky, but not impossible, task of getting the bill through the House of Lords once it finishes its passage through the Commons. In the past there has been strong opposition in the Lords to measures promoting gay equality. But the size of the majority in the Commons should make peers reluctant to defy the elected House. And, as Paul Waugh points out on a blog, the Lords is much more progressive now than it has been in the past.

 


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  • J.M

    A disaster for the UK. To quote V.V Putin re the Moscow gay parade. ‘The biggest issue facing our country today is that of demographics. We should not be encouraging homosexuality’.
    White Britons actually need to produce more children to ensure that in time Muslims don’t take over. Encouraging homosexuality damages this.

    • Alex

      Are we running out of people JM? So how many otherwise heterosexuals do you think will now convert to homosexuality?

      • Andrei

        Why would anybody make the sacrifices required to raise a family in a society which places sexual hedonism on a pedastal?

        Hmmm

        The Russian Federation’s birthrate is rising – it has a way to go yet but it is tracking in the right direction whereas Western Europe’s birthrate is in a state of near collapse, a fact hidden and papered over by immigration

        • Mitch82

          I reckon you and J.M. would make a cute couple. That’s assuming J.M. isn’t your alter ego.. sure sounds like it.

        • Alex

          You have no trust in your fellow human beings Andrei. Maybe you should stop thinking human beings inherently corrupt, and start seeing them as inherently good. I’ve just been out for a 10 minute walk and seen 4 couples pushing kids in prams. I would agree with you about the sexual hedonism prevalent — but that is a byproduct of the materialism and consumerism that pervades society. I think you’d be better attacking advertisers, pornography and purveyors of pop music etc than attacking same-sex marriage For those of us who’ve actually thought about it, same-sex marriage is a welcome counter to the pervading sex obsession. After all, if you were a sexual hedonist, why the hell would you want to get married.

          • starboard

            same sex marriage is abhorrent. Its not natural, penis into bottom is not natural. Two people of the same sex together is not natural. It goes against everything that is natural.

          • Anal sex is an increasing past time mainly for heterosexual couples

          • starboard

            Really ? I find that hard to believe. Got a link to back that ?

          • Got any links for your outrageous comments?

          • starboard

            Nothing outrageous about my comments. I would say your comment about hetros buggering each other on a regular basis is more outrageous…and insulting.

          • Alex

            No more outrageous than you thinking that you have some right to declare all same-sex relationships “unnatural”.

          • Gayguy

            Insulted you may be, but many many many hetros take it up the ass.

          • starboard

            …if they did they wouldn’t be hetros would they…no, they would be dirty homosexuals.

          • Gayguy

            Which only demonstrates how amazingly poorly you understand sex.

          • He’s probably getting his views from porn. Real women don’t let men abuse them in that way. Porn is made by men for men, so it’s not surprising that it’s showing homo sex with women.

          • Alex

            You’re probably right LM, but these same people who take umbrage at this, have often “researched” gay porn sites to make comments on the sexual practices of same sex couples. I would hope that you as a woman — as does Unsol a woman on the other side of the fence of this debate — deplore these males on here who turn any debate on same sex marriage into a quasi pornographic epic on anal sex and sexual practices generally. I do object to anyone’s relationship being degraded in such a way by these guys.

          • Alex, you’d have to give me an example of what you mean. Just link to a comment or conversation, rather than replicate it here.

          • Gayguy

            Real women??

            You sound as distorted as your perverted views on Christs words.

          • Plenty of women like it up the blurter, and it isn’t abuse.

          • It’s an abuse of the female body, whether they enjoy it or not. Anyone can be trained to enjoy anything, no matter how degrading, so enjoyment has got nothing to do with it. And women, given our different anatomy, are far more likely to get serious infections from allowing men to do this to them.

          • If two people who are sane, consenting adults, with no background of any kind of sexual abuse, mental abuse or “training” decide to engage in anal sex, how exactly does that constitute abuse?

          • unsol

            It is interesting you assume that it is always women who are on the ‘receiving end’ – no doubt in many hetero relationships, it is the man as after all, they have a G spot there hence why there a various toys that stimulate their arousal in this way.

            I recommend The Sexually Confident Wife by Shannon Ethridge as your homework

          • unsol

            That is incredibly rude, presumptuous & insulting, even for you LM. Not to mention incredibly naive.

            No doubt you have the same view on the 69’er, BDSM & doggy style.

            Sex is an intimate matter; it is up to the 2 people concerned to decide what is appropriate, what they feel comfortable with & what they enjoy.

            Not you.

            Real women know the difference between sex (in whatever form) with a loving spouse (whether male or female) & abuse.

          • Starboard, drop the baiting.

            Instead of flinging opinions about and making it personal, especially since dotcom is doing so well right now, how about some data

            http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8924345

            Prevalence of anal sex among heterosexuals in California and its relationship to other AIDS risk behaviors.

            “This paper describes the prevalence of anal sex among heterosexual adults in California … Seven percent of the sexually active respondents, 8% of males, and 6% of females reported having anal sex at least once a month during the year prior to the survey. Of these, most engage in this activity one to five times per month, and about 60% report never using condoms. Younger respondents and those who were not married were more likely to report anal intercourse.”

            There you go. THAT is how you debate topics. You get information, and you don’t call people names.

            ———

            dotcom is working very hard to take the high road because he was nearly turfed out, and as a favour in return, I won’t tolerate anyone trying to provoke him by means of personal attack. Debate the issues, leave dotcom as a person out of it.

          • starboard

            I am entitled to my opinion on this topic as are you. I don’t need to be told how to argue a point thanks very much. Please point out where I have called people names within this topic.

          • I apologise. I wanted to insert myself into the conversation to make a point and I picked the wrong spot. (sigh). Some people think being a Mod is fun. It really is just a ticket to get more people upset with you. ;)

            I have amended my reply to reflect my mistake.

          • starboard

            no problem.

          • unsol

            1 second on google – http://www.yourtango.com/200681/anal-sex-for-beginners & http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/06/anal-sex-heterosexual-couples-report_n_1190440.html

            “1 in 4 couples”

            Also check out a lovely Christian lady by the name of Shannon Etheridge…..anal sex does not make you gay (her words)

          • dotcom

            Unprotected? If so, for pathetic return, you risk serious disease and death. Your dick is not designed to distinguish what hole it is in. Hetero anal sex is greedy sex by men who choose to dominate their partner. Both of you risk disease unprotected. But even protected, the “female” risks unwarranted major disease and death. Between you, you risk unnecessarily, introducing disease into the community. And the community has to pay the medical bills that you chose to risk.

            Use a condom. It partly helps. Problem reduced for male.

            I don’t live my life on the internet like you do, but you’ve asked my irrelevant and voyeuristic personal details in the past, so I’ll cut short your asking me again.

            I’m long-since a widower these days with no desire to change my status, but I would never have asked my wife to expose herself to risk of disease and death, for the sake of perverted unnatural sadistic dominating sex. She never asked me, so I never asked her, because it was not my place to presume the right to ask.

            Do you promote and practice safe sex, even in matrimony? If so, my concerns are mitigated. We live in selfish times.

            My major concern is a community one. When it comes to anal sex, safe sex makes better sense. And it is not a secret, that gay men are terribly reckless when it comes to safe sex, married or not, but it seems that gay men in committed and monogamous relationships compromise safe anal sex standards.

            PS. I introduced neither the thread topic nor its inevitable drift in the direction of anal sex. What I tend to introduce into the conversation, is the desirability of safe sex. Yet almost certainly, my discussion of safe sex will be cause for derogation against me.

            Derogation for talking of the need for safe sex, worries me as much as the actual practice does.

          • Gayguy

            The only selfishness being demonstrated are by people like you.

          • dotcom

            Gayguy said: The only selfishness being demonstrated is by people like you

            if you say so. I don’t see how your comment adds anything to the debate. Now please understand that the hosts of WOBH watch me like a hawk. Other commenters can insult me to their heart’s content, but if I so much as raise a murmur of insult in response, the hosts come down on me like a tonne of bricks. So I will not respond to your rudeness in kind. Feel free to insult me and bait me all you like. It’s the rules here. I have stated my opinion on the topic itself, as I’m invited to do, and you have contributed nothing on the topic. Move on rude man.

          • Gayguy

            Think of this like Parliament. Any part of an answer you give can be targeted and the thread evolves from there.

            This place, like ANY blog does not remain 100% on topic at all. Conversations evolve, and if you cannot deal with this, don’t comment.

            You have a very selfish view, as do others, which is based on nothing but hate. There is no valid reason to deny marriage equality at all.

          • Alex

            (1) If HIV is a “gay disease”, then why as hetero would you care less? By your estimation, it would be of no effect on heterosexuals.

            (2) If your concern is strictly about the numbers needlessly dying of an easily preventable disease, then we should see you railing against obesity and smoking (which cause thousands of deaths in this country).

            We would both agree that safe sex is to be encouraged. But that is to be done by having a community that doesn’t drive it underground, by discriminating against people because they are homo or bi. Studies have shown repeatedly that HIV takes off in societies where attitudes prevent people talking candidly about sexual behaviour. So attacking homosexuals as a group because some members are reckless is entirely self-defeating.

            I understand that middle eastern countries could well be the next HIV hotspot, because the Islamic establishment actively prevents the safe sex message from getting across.

            It also means you should be supporting the organisations in the homosexual communities who put many millions of dollars and much time and effort raising the awareness of the importance of safe sex — be it for homosexuals or heterosexuals.

            While I agree certain homosexuals need to wake up (especially those who patronise sex on site venues), I understand the vast majority of homosexuals value their lives too much to be engaged in stupid behaviour.

            I’ve also heard it from an AIDS Foundation staff member whom I know that closeted bisexual men (especially those with female partners) tend to be the worse, since they have either ignored the safe sex message or think it’s only applicable to “gay men”.

            Also given the rates of other STD transmission among heterosexuals, there are a very large number who are engaging in unsafe sex.

            I see no connection between HIV transmission and same-sex marriage. Whether or not there is same sex marriage isn’t going to affect HIV transmission one little bit.

            If your point is that a group should be denied marriage because of some statistical calculation of immoral or risky sexual behaviour, then I suggest we also need to surveying the hetero population as well. Because I doubt you would suggest that heteros are lily white.

          • dotcom

            Alex said … If HIV is a “gay disease” etc …

            You didn’t bother to read my post. I have nothing to say in response to your rambling, none of which bears even remote relationship to what I actually said.

            I will make one comment, sorry. You challenge me for not mentioning obesity or smoking. Why on Earth would I be expected to talk about obesity or smoking on a thread which has absolutely noting to do with either obesity or smoking. That’s just plain dumb. I also didn’t talk about Christmas or the planet Neptune. Should I have? It would’ve been just as relevant.

          • Alex

            Has everything to do with what you have said in that posting and your many others ie, that same sex marriage shouldn’t happen because of HIV transmission among homosexuals. Is that not what you believe? And my belief is that your “argument” is a red herring, and I’ve struggling to understand why you concern yourself with HIV and why you keep on writing about it items about same sex marriage, when it has no connection, You just can’t debate things reasonably or genuinely , so you just dismiss it as rambling.

          • dotcom

            Alex, I have no intention of discussing here what you imagine I might have said on another topic. If I have said something on another topic, then go there and state your views. No-one else can see the comments you allege I made there, so either take it where it should have been debated, or drop it. This is bad internet protocol. You lost the debate there, so you want to regurgitate it here without acknowledging you already lost the debate more than once already.
            Now then, the hosts of WOBH watch me like a hawk. Other commenters can insult me to their heart’s content, but if I so much as raise a murmur in response, the hosts come down on me like a tonne of bricks. So I will not respond to your dishonesty about past debates or your rudeness in kind. Feel free to insult me and bait me all you like. It’s the rules here. I have already given my opinion on the topic itself. You have since gone off topic. So unless you actually have something to say on topic, your rudeness and flamebaiting will be ignored.

          • Alex

            You really are “economical with the truth”:

            dotcom Alex • 12 days ago

            Here we go again straight out of the gay procedures manual. Guideline 3.4.1, when HIV/AIDS is mentioned, lie about it being an African problem, not a gay problem. Alex, I hope the HIV/Aids you get isn’t the
            African one, but maybe a Chinese one. And Guideline 3.4.3, lie about it being a hertero disease, not a gay disease. And guideline 3.4.6, call the straight person a liar before he calls you one.

            Fucking liars, all of you. You lie so much, that you deserve all of you do have your lies come back and kill you, which they undoubtedly will.

            http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/01/marriage-equality-bill-introduced-in-uk/

          • dotcom

            How does one do a smiley here?

          • Alex

            A better question is why do you lie about your postings?

          • dotcom

            Please understand that the hosts of WOBH watch me like a hawk. Other commenters can insult me to their heart’s content, but if I so much as raise a murmur of insult in response, the hosts come down on me like a tonne of bricks. So I will not respond to your rudeness in kind. Feel free to insult me and bait me all you like. It’s the rules here. I have stated my opinion on the topic itself, as I’m invited to do, and you have contributed nothing on the topic. Move on

          • Alex

            Answer my question. Why did you say that you didnt wish I contracted HIV, when I cut and paste the posting in which you did. Answer that question. Don’t cut and paste and obfuscate.

          • Gayguy

            Do not expect DC to fess up that he lied or made a mistake. As far as he is concerned what ever he says no matter how factually wrong it is, is the truth.

          • Alex

            I know, but it is good to silence him. He makes redbaiter look moderate. Suspect a lot of his postings are fueled by the turps, give the expletives, followed by the “I do not intend to respond to your rudeness”. One wonders if he’s all there

          • No. We don’t need that. Anyone here is welcome to contribute, and if there is any silencing to be done, it will be up to The Whale.

            Dotcom’s trying to be better than he was before. Give it a chance to work out.

          • Gayguy

            No he is not trying to be better, he is trying to say that you and the other mod’s have a vendetta against him. And by taking that path he can say any old pack of lies, and then when challenged on it pulls out “I do not….etc”.

            He is not trying to be better, he is trying to get away with making stuff up.

          • Alex

            Hmmm who voted me down for showing dotcom to be a liar? Was that wrong of me? More wrong than him lying? Can someone explain this to me?

          • Alex, I didn’t downvote you. We have a bit of a problem here. dotcom lost his rag and nearly got turfed out. Things written “back then” were during the period dotcom would get unhinged and do a very good job of it too.

            Dotcom’s clearly lifted the standard, and we like to see dotcom remain here and contribute. Even though you feel you may have outstanding business from days ago, I would like to ask a favour and let it ride for now. Debate the comments he made on this thread, do not drag old material back up when he wasn’t up to par. Thank you.

          • Alex

            That might be so Petal.

            But the fact of the matter is that he called me a liar. I could let bygones be bygones.

            Whether he has improved or not, the fact remains he should have said “yes I did say that to you, and I apologise”. I’m still awaiting for that.

            So if he has genuinely reformed himself, he would do that.

            With respect, you would insist on that, instead of making it out that I’ve got the problem.

            Which sort of irks me, because it seems to me that that comment discussed was so beneath contempt, that it should have been a condition of his continued ability to post on here that he apologise to those who he has offended. And while some other posters may have egged him on, by and large, no one engages in the low grade, nasty, expletive ridden tirades he has.

            It is not good enough to just say “bad boy, don’t do it again” and not attempt to address the annoyance of those of us aggrieved by his nasty comments.

            So can you please ask dotcom to apologise without reservation for this comment, so that it is no longer “unfinished business”.

          • Ok, so you won’t do me that favour. Noted.

            Unless adults find their own way of dealing with these problems, any decision the mods may make will invariably be seen as unfair by someone. We are likely to go for expediency as opposed to a “fair” solution. No single individual is important enough to allow them to sabotage the blog comments day after day due to their own personal needs (blog owner excepted)

            If dotcom won’t volunteer the apology, then you have a number of options open. Some of those will result in being moderated yourself. Try to find a way that doesn’t cause that. We really don’t want to lose anyone. Thank you.

            dotcom, don’t be shy to help out here. If you can’t back up what you said the other day, this would be a good time to withdraw it and apologise.

          • Alex

            I could do you that favour if you were to say unequivocally that that sort of comment is beyond the pale, and in future would result in people being barred from posting. That would disabuse me of the notion that your solution is to favour the one who can make the most amount of noise (ie, not me) rather than actually bring some long lasting resolution. I’m not one to needlessly cause fuss, but I do think that dotcom’s postings this afternoon do raise serious questions about any supposed reformation.

          • I’m obviously being too subtle, so needs must. I don’t care about the rights and wrongs here, but you are my problem today, not dotcom. The man called you a liar. So what? Someone on the Internet called you a liar? Stop being my problem, that’s all I’m asking. Last message on the topic unless you force my hand. This thread is contaminated with personal shit. If I see it again tomorrow, I will act to side-line those that piss me off the most, regardless of right, wrong, fair or unfair. I hope this is clear enough now, because one way or the other, the problem is solved. Either you’re here and you got the message, or you’re not here, voluntarily or otherwise, and we can get back to yelling at each other at the normal acceptable levels. You know what’s pissing me off right now? Cam’s laughing his ass off at me right now for even TRYING to save your sorry arses from a ban. So wise up QUICK, because I’ve spent too much time on pandering to bruised egos already. Grow up!

          • Alex

            Ok I’ll ban myself. My problem was with the “I hope you get HIV” comment that I posted above. So good day, I shan’t be back.

          • Solves half my problem. Thank you. You could have done that without acting a petulant child and mess my day up.

          • Yes you will, you can’t stay away

          • My thoughts exactly. But as far as I’m concerned, he can stay away. Precious little shit. “Someone insulted me on the Internet, and I want you to deliver me justice OR ELSE” WTF???

          • dotcom

            I have no idea of what you are talking about. I’m accused of lying daily, but never does it have any substance. Usually it means I’ve expressed an opinion.

            But look, I have moved on. Can you not accept that I have moved on? And can you not accept that I have already SHOWN myself to have moved on, in spite of continuing off-topic flamebaiting on this thread. I walked away, finding it to be a nice day to let the insults fly while I mowed my front lawn, only to come back to this rubbish, because I have an opinion, noting that my only comment here today was not even focussed on gays. Never mind. I’ll go back to Kiwiblog (and many others) where sense does tend to prevail in the log run, and where ALL opinions are allowed to be expressed. Even Cam posted the other day on the propensity on uncontrolled blogs for bad commenters to drive away the good. Consistently on Kiwiblog I get massive up-votes, for my intelligent-yet-controversial contributions. Here all I get is mud in my eye, mud which I try not to return, but which is followed up with the gutter-dwelling host throwing shit in my face for not being able to take the mud. May he have another nervous breakdown soon.

          • Dude, if being here causes a nervous breakdown, you’re in the wrong place. It’s just a blog. There is life outside of this. Go there. This isn’t the right place for you then.

            You have to own what you say here. No matter what other people say to you, what you say back you own. And if you get it wrong, no matter how wrong THEY may be too, you need to show some pride and back away from it and apologise.

            I have no idea what you’re going to do now. But I’m going to try and keep my finger away from the Ban Button, and see what tomorrow brings.

          • dotcom

            I do own what I say here, fucktard. I don’t retaliate fuckwit, but making an exception with this post to the biggest idiot of all. You don’t have to ban me retard. I already said I would go back to other sensible and less perverted blogs. Fuck your stupid perverted blog and its crazy perverted twisted and biased perverts who think it is normal to tell the whole world that they are dirty unprotected arse-fuckers of their wives. How dare people talk about their intimate sex lives with their own spouses like this, and think this is what sane people do. So-called moderators, my fucking arse. Filth mongers the lot of you.

            You don’t have to Ban Button me. I’m gone, retards. But you will have to have the last say, anyway. You will not be able to resist. Won’t even have the decency to accept a resignation from me. Even mentally retarded control freaks to this peasant extent. Fuck you Petal, and fuck all who have to put up with you at your house, poor people. Fuck the Slater perverts house as well. Happy breakdowns Cam. Bye now.

            [And this is why we are about to have gay marriage fucking up our beautiful New Zealand – cos no-one can speak out against it.]

            Now watch you comment numbers plummet again, as they did while I had a couple of days off. Idiots. Perverts.

          • And now we will return you to your regularly scheduled program. We apologise for he interruption over the last few days.

          • See ya arsehole, but I’ll bet a buck that you can’t stay away…ain’t no way you can…you love it like your secret love for cock.

          • Gayguy

            And his true colours are shown.

            All this “I don’t hate gays” bullshit lies he has told and his little temper has shown him as the liar he is.

          • Gayguy

            You do lie, every time you comment in a gay themed thread.

          • dotcom

            Thank you not. I was up to par. Others were baiting me just as much then as you at least have acknowledged today. Now I’ve moved on, perhaps you too Petal, can accept this without your continuing barbs to add to the barbs of the gay brigade.

          • Not a smart reply. I’m out of patience with a number of you. Tomorrow is another day. I have an itchy trigger finger. End of story.

          • Who cares about down votes…I certainly don’t…and I don;t want silence, i want DC to keep on typing…long and hard…showing us all just how out of touch with reality he is…the answer to speech that you don;t like isn;t banning it, it is letting them have more speech…ridicule is far more powerful than silence.

          • Alex

            With respect, I didn’t imply either you or Petal voted me down. I agree perhaps was too rash to comment.

          • Just the old fashioned way I think. There *may* be a setting to convert text emoticons to graphics, but those are above my pay grade.

          • ;)

          • Seriously? “Hetero anal sex is greedy sex by men who choose to dominate their partner”…obviously you’ve never given your missus one in the chook…but seriously you really believe that? Domination?

            Sheesh If I tried anything one with my missus she wasn’t keen on, and she said no and I continued to try it on, I’d cop a punch in the face and swift kick to the balls…but domination…you need to get out more.

          • Alex

            For god’s sake. What’s with this anal sex obsession? Do heterosexual married couples do nothing but have sex all day? Is marriage nothing more than a licence to bonk endlessly? Don’t know about your relationship (if any), but sex is an infinitesimal part of my relationship. I’ll tell you what is “natural”: an adult trying to find love and happiness by way of a committed relationship with another adult.

          • Those opposed to marriage equality always gravitate towards anal sex ignoring the fact that it is and does occur in “normal” hetero relationships…but as you point out their prurient intest in other people’s sex lives is astonishing.

          • pukakidon

            I support the right for all to marry. However that is one thing that I get annoyed at. I know most gay people dont do it, but many have to continually flaunt their sexuality in the face of the public. Much like Mormons I do sick of them pushing their views in my face. Why cant they just get on with life, marry their loved ones man or woman and stop parading their sexuality in my face. If heterosexuals paraded around flaunting their sexuality in my face I would get pissed off with them as well. Much the same as boobs on bikes they do not get public funding and have been told to piss off.

          • Gayguy

            In truth marriage goes against what is natural and “normal”.

            As animals we evolved to mate with as many women as we could in order to grow the species. Marriage is a human construct, and if we are 100% honest has it’s origins in everything but love.

            So please do not bang on about homosexuality being unnatural, because science has already disproved that several times over. If you want something to hang your hate on, hang it on marriage being unnatural.

            At least that is truthful.

          • dotcom

            Only a gay man would describe a man and woman marrying as unnatural. All your comment shows is just how warped, sad and pathetic a creature you are.

            You don’t even understand the role of the female in a hetero coupling. Yes, it is a man’s function in nature to make every hole a goal. But what you clearly don’t “get” is that there is a natural and complementary force within the female, to mollify the plentiful male urges. Her role is the selective one. Her role is to control who she wants and when she wants him, as a FATHER of her offspring, and supporter in her maternal function.

            You simply wouldn’t have the genes to relate to the natural female mollifying and coupling forces. You are simply not qualified to make the remarks you have made about “natural” marriage. You have just proved why this gay marriage thing is an utter farce.

          • unsol

            No, marriage is unnatural – hence why 70% of married men cheat. Fidelity for life does not seem natural to any man (bar my husband….or so he tells me!).

          • dotcom

            If you say so.

          • Gayguy

            You really have no understanding of historical facts do you.

          • dotcom

            How does one do a smiley here?

          • Gayguy

            Reading your comically error ridden posts make me smile.

          • Gayguy

            Yet again your silly bigoted ideas and simple lack of basic knowledge make me giggle.

          • unsol

            Good to see that you recognise a woman’s right to say no mouthy man….

            But by your standard you are essentially saying that anyone incapable of reproducing without medical intervention is unqualified to comment on matters pertaining to marriage…which means you are precluding 1 in 6 couples from having the right to have an opinion…..

            “The accepted definition of infertility is when a couple fails to conceive after one year of trying, in New Zealand couples will seek fertility treatment after just a few months to five years of trying….

            “The rate of infertility in New Zealand is steadily increasing each year and one in six of all couples trying to conceive will experience infertility problems at some stage, even after one or more successful pregnancies.
            This worrying statistic is not helped by a 26% fall in New Zealand’s birth rate in the last 30 years, less than Australia (29%) but considerably higher than UK (14%), France or Germany (both 15%).

            The average age for a first pregnancy in New Zealand is 30, which is the highest in the world”

            Marriage in the form we know it to be was not part of the original procreation picture; men & women didn’t necessarily have life long partners per se in ancient times. Instead, women chose men who 1) could produce the goods, 2) provide for them & their offspring & 3) would be around for as long as it took for their last child to become more independent (around the age of 7).

            Marriage came in much later (12the century or thereabouts) as way to secure heirs, status & wealth – at which point the Church then State decided it had a vested interest.

          • unsol

            Yep marriage is not natural & not even what God wanted….or so Paul told the Corinthians (the same ones he also told to stop raping their male slaves = gay reference in the New Testament).

            It is a man-made institution created so as to secure heirs, status & wealth; if women could not reproduce the men could divorce & find another who could.

            So times have changed whereby marriage for some reason has lasted despite the attempts of both State & Church to control the intimacy of couples & over the last 50 years – especially since divorce & women working became accepted, it has now become about love, commitment & choice.

          • Shugmcglumfer

            “As animals we evolved to mate with as many women as we could in order to grow the species.” How do you fit into this Gayboy?”

          • Gayguy

            Because within nature it is normal for homosexuality to occur. As science has proven time and again.

            What is not normal is bigotry, And is on the fast track to being a mental disorder.

          • unsol

            Probably in the same way that bison, penguins, dolphins, bears, lions, mallards!!! salmon, goats, giraffes, dogs, orcas, screwworm fly, cockroaches, locusts (ooh, the Bible commanded us to eat locusts….perhaps that is where the genetic defect was first transferred! :p), lizards, snakes etc etc etc all do :)

          • unsol

            Just like masturbation, same sex attraction & sex has co-existed with heterosexual attraction & sex since the beginning of time.

            Everything that is natural? So you mean things like slow runners (not much of a hunter if you cant catch the buffalo), poor aim (you’re no good if you keep missing the buffalo with your spear), men with small dicks, limp dicks, people with poor vision, poor hearing, spina bifida, speech impediments, lisps, dyslexia, down syndrome, cowlicks, flat feet, man boobs, lack of abs, puny arms, balding, alopecia, limb deformities, warts, infertility, hernias, cancers, heart attacks, heart murmurs, left-handedness etc etc .

            Anal sex, fingering, oral sex, vaginal sex are all perfectly natural – that is why there are g spots in all different areas & why many couples of the same sex & different sex practice all forms of sex.

            So-called gay sex is not the monopoly of the LGBT community.

            What is unnatural, is peoples preoccupation with the sexual intimacy of others; all sex is pretty gross if you think about it too much and unless every encounter produces a baby it is always animalistic & hedonistic with sexual gratification & self gratification being the primary goals.

          • Shugmcglumfer

            I’m impressed! Let the gays get married. So no more unwanted kids. This will drop the birth rate and solve the unemployment problem. And the gays will die out!

          • unsol

            By making such idiotic comments you clearly have no interest in even attempting to establish credibility with your viewpoint; LGBT are barely 10% of the population.

            Low income heteros – mostly Maori & PI, produce over 30% of NZ children with 22% considered to be in the ‘child poverty’ (as opposed to family poverty – a misnomer since we have a bulging welfare state) bracket.

            Birth rates – as stated above, have already fallen dramatically due to social changes (settling down later, having kids later & massive increases in infertility) etc.

            As for unemployment? Absolutely no relevance to the discussion whatsoever.

        • J.M

          Exactly Andrei. Homosexuality is something that is a direct threat to Western Civilisation as we know it. As such homosexuality should be discouraged. We should not recriminalise it, but we should not encourage it as we do by even discussing gay marriage.

          • Gayguy

            LMAO what a load of paranoid nutbag tripe.

    • So how much more likely are you to become homosexual when NZ’s gay marriage bill passes J.M?

    • Gayguy

      You cannot “encourage” homosexuality.

      You are either gay or not.

      • starboard

        Sure but keep ya sordid acts to yourselves. Bugger each other until ya dates fall out…but keep away from marriage. Its funny, some of you lot bag marriage but on the other hand want it…very unbalanced.

        • dotcom

          Good point, re Gayguy bagging marriage while demanding it for gays. Shows the real objective is not genuine.

          • Gayguy

            No, it shows how thick you are.

          • dotcom

            Go away please.

          • Gayguy

            I know it is hard for people like you to hear facts, but the fact is, what I said was truthful, it was not bagging marriage at all, and your amazing lack of basic historical knowledge makes you a joke.

            Facts are facts, and as I said above, if you do not like it, do not comment.

        • Gayguy

          It really is amazing how stupid the homo haters can be.

        • unsol

          “…unbalanced”

          Just like your focus on one part of the LGBT community doing one kind of sexual act…..

          LGBT views on marriage are no more or less varied that hetero views – hence why hetero de facto rates are booming compared to marriage licenses….

  • starboard

    another stupid decision by the poms…will they ever learn ?

  • Mitch82

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643743

    “Cloudy with some outbreaks of rain or sleet, clearing everywhere except Kent overnight and perhaps turning to snow briefly. Later clear periods developing away from Kent. Becoming quite windy.”

    Looks like the sky is holding up quite nicely, no sign of falling.

  • Changeiscoming

    OT but i can’t help but post this after seeing that clip. Do you see how many MP’s they have trying to fit into their debating chamber. It’s totally weird that they all can’t fit.

  • CowboyBebop

    In the end, I really couldn’t give a fuck about some of the idiotic and unreasoned views aired on this subject since the bill will pass here in NZ with the far majority and support of both the general population and the politicians in Parliament. The fact that those views are propounded by the same abject losers (for want of a better term, since they seem to be on here 24/7 commenting on mostly this subject, more specifically on male/male partnerships) constantly over and over reinforces readers impression that no one other than this minority composed of intolerant dinosaurs opposes marriage equality.

    I look forward to the day where I can stand in front of my family and friends and enter a life-long commitment of love, fidelity and support (the concept that is that is the cornerstone of marriage today) to my partner, whatever gender they happen to be.

    A further note regarding the disturbing comments on HIV/AIDS – have not the last week or two been spent covering Sir Paul Holmes media career in detail. It would have been hard to miss the career-defining moment of him comforting without fear a young girl suffering from the disease. I did not like Paul Holmes much before I saw that clip and the interview. Now, however, I do because he showed so much compassion and kindness to a girl who’s life was wrecked not only by this disease but by others’ ignorance and unjustified fear.

    • Shugmcglumfer

      Good publicity for Paul. That’s all it was ! If he really cared you would not know about it!.

      • unsol

        I agree – I personally don’t understand how a man whose career seemed to be based on sensationalism & shock jock tactics deserves so many accolades.

    • Andrei

      What a load of pap

      Two men getting “married” to each or two women “marrying” is just a sad parody of a real marriage which can only between a man and a woman.

      • Gayguy

        Unless the law says otherwise, and soon it will.

        Watcha going to do when that happens?

      • CowboyBebop

        Really? That’s your argument against marriage equality – that its somehow a parody?

        What’s your justification for this statement? That the bible told you that marriage was between a man and a woman? Well, the bible tells me that God reckons its perfectly alright for his chosen lot to go round raping and murdering the rest. Oh wait, the Bible doesn’t really say anything about marriage between one man and one woman specifically either. Oops. (refer: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-carey/bible-weddings_b_887979.html)

        Andrei: must do better, also, please try not to use religious arguments from now on – we live in a secular country and certainly not under the Christian Fundamentalist equivalent of sharia law. Goody.

  • Shugmcglumfer

    Same old shite! Pooftahs trying to convince us they are
    normal!

    I‘ve often thought, in a normal marriage when a normal woman
    doesn’t want sex she might say “I’ve got a headache”, but does a poof say “No I can’t have sex my piles are killing me”

    • Gayguy

      Well normal sure ain’t you.

      • Shugmcglumfer

        And you are?

        • Gayguy

          As normal as a normal person can be.

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