Waitangi Day General Debate

NF

David Shearer wants us to all say Happy Waitangi Day…

But isn’t it time we stop pandering to the cultural blackmailers up North?

It’s time we celebrate February 6th as our national day for all New Zealanders, not just the privileged brown motherfuckers that are in Hone Harawira’s constituency.  

 


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  • kohibruce

    Morph the old “dominion day” into NZ day. Keep away from any connection with the tainted Waitangi day.

  • Hazards001

    Move the public holiday to another day and re name it NZ Day. Leave Waitangi Day as it is. A day of natonal disgrace where ordinary kiwis turn from the media in horror and shame at the antics of a few. EVERY YEAR!

    • Mr_Blobby

      I concur 100% lets move on and leave the fools to it.

  • i must admit that in my house it really is just a day off. its like its MAORI day and we are lucky enough to have a holiday on the same day.

    theres nothing to celebrate about living in one of the most racist countries in the world.

    i would like to point out that my wife is over 1/8th maori and so my kids must be maori too. although up north the maori up there would consider them too white to be considered maori. it really is a mess this maori waitangi thing.

    we know that our PM is happy to keep the status quo, and we’ve heard what shearer would do for waitangi celebrations if HE were PM.

    what about Norman? what would HE do… have a massive payout day?

    • Tom

      Yep every year he would crank up the money printing presses a few weeks ahead, then he could give everyone a sly $55k on Waidafuq day as we all play with our windchimes and dreamcatchers at the beach. Yippeee!

    • Patrick

      Like an African dicatator Norman would have mass amnesties where criminals could be released from the jails

  • i recon we take a significant day, like the day Sir Ed climbed everest and call it New Zealand Achievement day. then new zealanders all around the world could really feel a connection.

    • Moaning Greasy Flyblow

      Nah, make it red socks day. Still resonates after 18 years

      • Patrick

        Sir Peter Blake Day – come to think of it why not have a legends day? Then we wouldn’t even have to think about the Hariwira family.

  • tarkwin

    It’s national embarrassment day up here. The last day or so I’ve been watching van load after van load of over weight brown trash moving North at about 70k. Internal affairs pay for the hire of all the equipment they need to camp out, ie: tents, matresses, blankets cooking gear, etc etc. I’m reliably informed about 80% of this gear doesn’t come back – even portaloos go missing! It’s jackpot time for the local hire companies, the government just pays up no questions asked. Northland is my home and I love it up here. There is a fair bit of work around if you want to work, but the figures are horribly distorted by the bludgers who will never work aided and abetted by the Harawira gang. Any Waitangi Day celebrations should be held in a phone box on the Auckland Islands.

  • blazer

    John Key and the Nats love it!

    • Lofty

      As do politicians of every hue blazer, but you already knew that eh!

  • out2lunch

    Waitangi day – It’s no australia day. I don’t see anybody with painted faces, i don’t hear anyone singing the national anthem. To many people it is another public holiday to add to the list of public holidays in the calender year. This is not going to change unless there is an attitude change amongst the portion of maori who feel they should voice their grievances on our national day.

    • Morrissey

      What? Maori have no grievances, do they? And they are not allowed to protest?

      • Gazzaw

        They’re always fucken protesting. They should take a day off like everyone else.

        • Morrissey

          Nice reply, Gazzaw.

          • Gazzaw

            It’s the honest truth Morrissey and it’s a disgrace. I was walking along the Warkworth bypass on Monday morning and the vans were hooning north with flags flying & aggro passengers. It’s a national shame.

            Yesterday afternoon much against my better judgement I was listening to Danny ‘Kaumatua’ Watson blabbing on on ZB about how it’s just a few troublemakers that cause the problems and that the Waitangi celebrations are for the whole nation. I call bullshit on that. Last place I would take my family.

          • Michael

            Amen. I liked in Kaikohe for sometime and a white guy, it’s simply terrifying. The bollocks isn’t limited to just today, it’s a constant for many.

            After 9months, I left feeling I had personally brought the black plague to Northland… least that’s what I was sold :-/

      • Meg

        There comes a time when always living in the past is self destructing.

        • thor42

          Agreed. This country has MORE to celebrate than any other country in the world.

        • Pissedoffyouth

          For once, I agree with you.

      • BJ

        They grieve every day.

        A healthy grieving process requires a bit of work by the individual to work through it and get to a healthy resolution.

  • I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY…….this being general debate…

    Its very easy to agree and vote someone up. But if someone is to be voted down i find it quite gutless just to do so without a brief indication/argument as to why…. unless it is blatantly a stupid comment which requires no explanation.

    • Travis Poulson

      Serial down voters don’t need a give a reason to down vote you, or only need a small petty reason to target you such as carrying the ‘mod’ tag or just simply not liking you because of previous comments. I’m not particularly bothered by people that have no explanations for their down votes of my comments, it suits me better knowing that they can’t muster the intelligence to put it into words. Not all down voters of course, but definitely the grudge holding serial downvoters.

      • yeah well thats the problem i feel. i really dont mind hearing other peoples veiws. after all thats what helps out opinions evolve. but whenever i get a vote down with no follow up criticism i just imagine a grumpy old sewn up feminist that is across between germaine greer and sue bradford sitting in a dusty old room full of old unfinished paperwork and piles of unpaid parking tickets and suchlike with a socialist flag in the background……franticly voting down anyone who has anything intelligent to say across ALL social media.

        if i get a comment along with the ‘vote down’ then i dont have to get that image in my head…

        • unsol

          “but whenever i get a vote down with no follow up criticism i just imagine a grumpy old sewn up feminist that is across between germaine greer and sue bradford”

          Hmmm – if male I tend to imagine such people as being smelly & crusty nerds that are a cross between “Fat Bastard” and Silent T or Chippy.

          If female – based on the anti gay comments I have seen I imagine an uptight cantankerous pearl wearing old bird that is a cross between Mrs Doubtfire & Hyacinth Bucket…..

          • Travis Poulson

            Hmmm – if male I tend to imagine such people as being smelly & crusty nerds that are a cross between “Fat Bastard” and Silent T or Chippy.

            If you don’t find a way of changing that it will cause you long term damage.

          • unsol

            Nah, it’s only a fleeting thought when I see a downer :p

      • Lion_ess

        Couldn’t resist it :)

    • unsol

      You got an up vote from me…..the down votes I find are usually the petty people and/or those who don’t have the intelligence to come back with a retort that has substance rather than the usual bluff, bluster & bullshit…..especially on the marriage equality posts.

  • BR

    The treaty.

    Here’s what should be done.

    Halt all treaty payments forthwith, and halt them forever. Disestablish any and all government departments that are involved in this process. Put all those involved on the dole. This will save the NZ taxpayers a lot of money.

    Remove all references to “Maori”, or indeed any racial group from the NZ statute. Remove them all forever. Do the same for the Treaty of Waitangi.

    Abolish all Maori seats from parliament permanently.

    Relegate the legal status of all Maori tribes to that of, say, the Remuera Bridge Club.

    The end.

    Bill.

    P.S. Keep the holiday, but make sure it’s on a Monday.

    • thor42

      Agreed.

      • BJ

        I’ll second that

        • grumpy

          Third….

  • thor42

    Maori are the most **cosseted, pampered, fawned-over and compensated** people in the world.

    South American tribes. Any compo from the Spanish?

    No.

    The HUGE number of countries **brutally** invaded by the Muslims. Any compo? No.

    Oh, but *Maori*……. any compo? SHITLOADS.

    Maori compo. Maori scholarships.

    Meaningless Maori names for Govt departments that no-one ever uses. **On and on it goes……**

    • Gazzaw

      Canadians tell me different thor. They reckon the eskimos (sorry read Inuit) get even more handouts than our lot. So what sort of gravy train do they have? I’m surprised that we haven’t had taxpayer funded ‘study’ or ‘cultural exchange’ groups head up there to discover their secrets.

      • Dumrse

        The major difference is there are about 34.5mil taxpayers funding not much more than 150000 Inuit. We wouldn’t whinge as much with a similar ratio.

      • Michael

        Not Inuit, Inuit was/is one small group. It’s either “First Nations” or “Aboriginal” when referencing Canada. First Nations is preferred. The Eskimo is from Alaska.

        And yes, it does matter. All Maoris are Maoris, regardless of their Iwi. Same can not be said for First Nations in Canada. Most groups don’t even speak the same native language.

        This is why the pay outs are much larger and more problematic of the federal govt to deal with.

        • Gazzaw

          Thanks for clarifying Michael.

    • blokeintakapuna

      I think Maori would have a very valid & realistic claim about their culture and ancestral rights, land ownership etc… but only if they still lived today as Maori did at the time of signing the treaty without accepting any of the benefits / life improvements the European culture has delivered.

      Picking and choosing what aspects of European culture and progress they like and want to enjoy, whilst denigrating the remaining aspects that don’t fit the entitlement mentality, whilst at the same time over-populating the prison, child abuse, unemployment statistics, is nothing but 2-faced hypocrisy.

      The pandering for a “reverse apartheid” form of ethnic separatism enshrined in a constitution will only divide the nation and set NZ Inc up for big, big troubles in decades / generations to come.

      We need a united NZ, not encouraging separatism along ethnic lines – regardless of how pure the intention is/was/has been. Just look at the intention of the treaty at the day of signing, compared to where we are now as a nation? What “unintended consequences” would happen in the decades / centuries to come should NZ Inc enshrine race-based reverse apartheid framework into a constitution?

      History will judge this generation on outcomes – not intentions. Setting NZ Inc on separatist foundations will not bring harmony to Aotearoa – either now or for future generations.

      One race – the human race. One country. One law for all. One planet.

    • Dani

      I can also add that the indigenous people in Chile also get more scholarships, and get into uni with lower grades than the rest of the people….and Europe keeps sending them money so they can attack and kill farmers….do I have to mention how productive is the land they have been getting back?

  • cows4me

    Kids have mates around for motorX, think I’ll go and try and keep up for a couple of laps, then it’s off to the beer fridge. Waitangi Day, you don’t say?

  • Meg

    Both Key and David are right in what they say.

    David talks about having pride in ourselves, being proud of our national day, as so many other countries are. It would be great to have a day where we act like the aussies or yanks.

    And Key is right that when it comes to Waitangi day most kiwis do not care, they are more concerned with the weather forecast and if they can get to the beach.

    We need to move away from Waitnagi day as our national day. It was not the day our nation was founded, it does not bring people together, and it always ends up focusing on (media wise) the pack of fuckwits up north shitting all over the pride of this country.

    Rob Muldoon was right to have a New Zealand day. but he was wrong to just rename Waitangi day. Time to pick a new day, and leave Waitangi day as just another public holiday and those that want to go all out for it can, and those who don’t can just relax and know that as a day, it does not represent our country.

  • Patrick

    Most Kiwis lock the doors, turn off the telly & radio & throw the newspaper in the bin – very different to Australia Day where the event is embraced & celebrated.

    • Cadwallader

      Agree. Today is booze/BBQ/beach/cricket day. The msm will undoubtedly try to wrench some new grievance into being and feature some wailing tribalists who demand $$$$ to cheer themselves up.

    • Gazzaw

      And ain’t that a crying shame Patrick?

    • Mr Sackunkrak

      That’s because Harawira Day isn’t our national day. Just sayin.

      • Patrick

        Yep – if there is one thing I will give Aunty Helen credit for (& one thing only) it was the decision to no longer put herself (& the country) through the abuse & lack of respect when attending Waitangi. It was pretty much forced on her by the behaviour of the rent a mob crowd at Waitangi but good on her for taking a stand.
        We will continue to be subjected to “Waitangi Day shame” until the pollies & the media stop giving these “haters & wreckers” the oxygen that they crave.

    • Morrissey

      Wrong. To the Aboriginal community, as well as many other Australians, Australia Day is a Day of Shame.

      • Patrick

        but they don’tet the oxygen to hijack the country’s national day as they do in NZ.

        • Morrissey

          Neither did slaves in the United States until 1865.

          • Patrick

            you have rocks in your head if you think the slavery in America and the colonization of NZ and Aus are comparable

          • Morrissey

            You need to do some reading. Some serious, sustained reading.

          • Patrick

            happy to do that if you are willing to direct me to the relevant information. My kiwi education has let me down as all I can recall was the Maori were slave traders, don’t remember anything about the British trading Maori as slaves

  • BJ

    If a day of commemorence of what was supposedly a happy occasion, is no longer a happy celebration then we need to abolish it and replace it with a day of national pride that can be celebrated with honour and much gratitude by all that identify with this God-given country.

    Let the winging, disinfranchised disappear from view and off the front page on Waitangi Day, to their miserable little huddles where they can continue to blame something outside their own-selves for their own lack of personal achievement and contribution to this lucky land.

  • starboard

    Waitangi day…one big LOL ! Fuck you harawira and ya filthy mother.

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  • steve and monique

    Should be shifted to a Friday in February.Then it could be called ” Black Friday”as it has proved to be a day of disgrace because of the behaviour of certain minorities.Am I a racist for making this statement,or just a Kiwi sick of the bullshit that has become, Feb the 6th.

  • steve and monique

    Or should we just rename it ” brown nose day”

  • Michael

    Best thing Helen Clark did was not attend in 2000. Wish other politicians would do the same and stick to it! It’s pandering and it’s ugly and disgraceful.

    John Key should have said, fuck it… I am not a toy to fight over. I am outta here.

    I sometimes wish that a protest would get out of hand, run a real muck. Maybe then more people sitting on the fence of Waitangi day relevance would come forward saying that it is horse shit.

  • Liberty

    I see the rednecks have had too much sun today.
    With silly statements that All Maori are making trouble at Waitangi.
    No a very small group are causing trouble and whose behind it?
    It appears the Harawira thugs. And who is crawling up the arse of theses
    thugs. The lefty Media.
    Apparently there are hundreds of different items organized
    around the country From Waka races to hangis Everyday kiwis having a great
    day.
    Are we aloud to see such togetherness. Hell no people working together is not
    in the grand socialist plan.
    So what do we get. on 6pm news.
    Some silly old bitch along with her underlings who has been told to FO by the Waitangi committee. causing mayhem.

    • Patrick

      You may be right but by not calling out the behaviour for what it is the rest of Maoridom condones it. There was a perfect opportunity to show that the Hariwiras’ are not speaking for the rest of Maori over the most recent “issue” but unfortunately no one is willing to put them in their place – once & for all.

    • steve and monique

      Sadly a few are destroying it for many

  • unitedtribes

    Been out working all morning but as at 7am news this morning not one mention of anyone getting a cold pie thrown in their face. Could this be right or have the media decided to boycott bad manners?

  • thehawkreturns

    If the National Party had real guts they just wouldn’t attend. Why waste their time anyway? How many Maaaori vote for them? Let Labour cut into the Maaaaori Party vote all they like. No officials from the National Party just makes it a day for socialist bludgers. It is all very well saying the rest of the country doesn’t care (and he is correct) so why doesn’t he man up and ignore the racists from Northland.

    • Mr_Blobby

      You mean DonKey should take off his skirt, cancel his manicure, grow a mustache and harden the Fuck up.

  • Mr_Blobby

    I don’t know whats sadder some fucked up old bitch on crutches trying to remain relevant by getting her retarded fucked up family to intimidate the local organizers or our very own, scarred of his own shadow, Muppet PM telling us all what a great lady she is etc etc etc I’m surprised he didn’t bestow an honor on the stupid cow.

    For a National day of celebration he probably had more security than there were protesters. So what are we really celebrating.

    Better to just stay away and not give the fools any oxygen you stupid Muppet.

    • Patrick

      He needs the Maori Party vote come the next election, no way can he risk offending them. As the saying goes “he has to swallow a few dead rats.”
      Now if we didn’t have MMP Key wouldn’t have to behave like this. He could raise the middle finger to them – & middle NZ would vote for him in droves.

  • unsol

    The times I have been in Waitangi on 6th Feb has been beautiful – it has been everything the Treaty was meant to stand for.

    It is the petty politics of the day before that needs to be scrapped, not the celebrations themselves.

    The fact that we have a Treaty does mean something to many people – it is something to be proud of as is our generally good MULTI cultural (not Bi-cultural) relations.

    That said, this reverse discrimination has gone on for far too long & is only serving to undermine Maori/Non Maori relations rather than vice versa. To have things like a Maori Party, Maori Affairs is separatist & discriminatory & puts Maori way too high up the pecking order in that the Chinese have been here since the Gold Rush with the Europeans & Indians soon after so if anything, we should be ensuring that our laws & our politics reflect our multi-cultural rather than merely bi-cultural society.

    We were bi-cultural at the time of the Treaty but we are certainly not anymore so it is time Maori accepted this & embraced all things NZ.

    Further, bar a few major Treaty issues (Tuhoe was hugely momentous & completely justified), I would like to see an end to all claims right now & scrap any ability for anyone to try & claim water, air, radio waves, beaches, sea beds, river beds, sheep whatever. I am sick of these claims & the pandering to racist dimwits like Hone & his rude & disrespectful mother.

    I wish John Key had told her to get fucked & not bothered pursuing the visit yesterday – it was unacceptable that he, our PM was treated second rate to that woman who has never contributed to any major issue in a constructive & meaningful way.

    Personally I consider Hone & his mother to be a disgrace upon Maoridom as they personifiy everything but what the culture is meant to stand for

    • TANSTAAFL

      I thought Tuhoe never signed the treaty?

      • unsol

        Only some claim that…..no doubt they those same people had no issue with accepting the big payout though!

  • GregM

    Well I’m about to head down to the waterfront for a cold one or nine, and I’m not coming back till after the news hour.
    I am over it, cancel Waitangi day permanently and come up with a new national day off.

    • Travis Poulson

      I don’t care what they call it, as long as we get the day off.

    • steve and monique

      Sir Ed day?

  • boborocks

    lets have the inevitable war and get it over with….. if pakeha wins kick the maori out… ditto the other way. just whoever wins keep the holiday

  • Steve (North Shore)

    Thanks for giving me the day off today Hone – I will vote for you bro.
    What’s that? Hone didn’t do this? and here’s me thinking he did coz he’s such an important person

  • disqus_iFuU9ZxTgP

    Wow! It saddens me that so many are ignorant of the constitutional document that gave the right of protection, partnership and participation to all New Zealand citizens – those that were here under the invitation of the British flag (as subjects of the British Crown to find a new and more abundant life), those that were already here (when the protection was offered by the Queen of England the monarch of the British colonial empire and consort of the British fleet if they agreed to become subjects), as well as those that have come after to settle and become permanent residents. Waitangi Day is a day to celebrate the coming together of all under the name New Zealand. How we choose to express that will always be as diverse, colourful and rich as the people who are here. The only unacceptable thing about Waitangi Day is that we as people choose to remain ignorant of the protection afforded to us by a document that ties us together to stand side-by-side on an island where we have no other protection. Many of you talk of New Zealand as though you understand what this country, nation and people stand for but you have no clue. You speak as entitled spoiled children that behave as though they know what is important but have never had to test their theories. I am ashamed to belong to a generation that have never had to fight for brotherhood, the right to a unique way of life or the right to work to become what you choose. I am ashamed because you disrespect the sacrifice of those that came before us that forged a legacy of compassion, hardwork, and wholesome unity. Do yourselves a favour so you don’t look infinitely more ignorant that those you are pointing fingers at – read the Treaty then get away from your computers and talk to the people (white, brown, black and rainbow) that make up the real New Zealand to find out why this document and event is so important to our identity and worth celebrating. Then, and only then, will I concede that you possibly have something worthwhile to say.

    • Mr_Blobby

      I did read the treaty. It is a meaningless historical document, long past it’s best by date, with no relevance to modern NZ.

      None of the crap that the Maori elite rant on about is mentioned.

      We should have a National day that we all can be proud of, but it should not be Waitangi Day. Waitangi day is meaningless for the vast majority of New Zealanders it should not even be a public holiday.

      • disqus_iFuU9ZxTgP

        I guess Britain should scrap the Magna Carta and the Westminster Charter too then; and the Americans could dump the Declaration of Independence; then there’s the Bible and any form of religious scripture or fictional work for that matter; and therefore any literary piece – because no matter how you look at it most things written prior to 1980 are now irrelevant to our modern society. Constitutional law reflects the evolution of a civilisation. We write these things down as records so we can remember where we started, and hopefully end up in a better place. The Treaty is the only thing that distinguishes us from England and every other colony. Like it or not its our beginning, and it’s delivered to us a freedom and protection that no-one else in the entire world has.

        • Mr_Blobby

          It is still an irrelevant historical document that has been elevated beyond its original purpose. Because it has been tainted by all the claim bullshit, the only solution is to scrap it and move on.

          A New Zealand where every one is equal and nobody has special rights above there contribution to society.

          When it is all added up Maori are a net economic and social drain on society.

          • disqus_iFuU9ZxTgP

            Yes you’re absolutely right there has been a big cost to all New Zealanders, especially over the last 20 years as the Crown finally developed a claimants system through the Waitangi tribunal (a Crown entity by the way). That is our generation, of 2 million taxpayers, paying off the entire debt owed to Maori.

            But surely that issue raises a question that should be answered not by Maori, but by “the Crown”, its original “settlers” and appointed “Governors”?

            Aren’t we simply paying a debt as “subjects” that is owed to “subjects” for the wrongful, yet lawfully sanctioned taking of land by our common ancestors? Otherwise who do you suppose should pay such a debt? The families that inherited the stolen lands? The families of the government officials that passed the crooked laws? The Queen who inherited the mess from her grandmother’s greedy subjects?

            Why are you blaming Maori? Because you have to pay a debt that you’ve inherited from others?

            Yes it’s bloody unfair! I feel it every day too! It’s even more unfair to the migrants that had no link at all to what happened 180 years ago!

            But shouldn’t you be slinging off at the real culprits – all of which have been dead for over a century?

            It’s bloody unfair that people have had to live without a piece of land that was rightly theirs to feed themselves from and live a happy life on too. It’s unfair that every time the word Maori is said it conjures up a stereotype of an economically depressed, entitled, dependent no-hoper. It’s bloody unfair that every time the word Waitangi gets raised every Maori in the country gets an earbashing from the media and everybody else that chooses to forget (on the other 364 days of each year) that Maori are the only ones committed to settling a debt that is more than 180 years old. It’s also unfair that as a non-smoker non-drinker non-abuser I have to pay tax that covers the cost of alcohol related injury and drug or tobacco induced disease.

            If New Zealanders really cared about this land and this nation we call home, they’d want to settle the old debt with as minimal fuss as possible. But we aren’t loyal enough to each other or our country – just like I said in my original post. We reluctantly pay tax to keep this place going because we want all the benefits of paradise and the frills of diversity – but just like our ancestors, we don’t want to pay anything for it. Why don’t we just get off our arse and settle the debt?

            By the way, as far as Hazards001 comment re the Tainui and Ngai Tahu settlement I agree we are going to be forever bankrupt because of it. What stupid idiot agreed to pay 50 cents and 70 cents (i.e. $1.20) for every dollar (i.e. $1) of tribal settlement going to other tribes to Tainui and Ngai Tahu? Obviously someone or group of someone’s that couldn’t count but were given the job. Maori have known this for the last ten years. We also know the only way it will ever be possible for our country to remain solvent is if the Maori economy flourishes, people are educated and get jobs, taxes are paid, families are healthy. That right there – is the positive reason behind us being united as one nation and pulling together.

            With lands being returned and settlements being made, Maori contribution to national GDP is rising and predicted to peak in 2025. The “Maori Participation in the Auckland and New Zealand Economies 2006” report found that GDP of an estimated $19.6 billion exists from Maori producer enterprises, $6 billion and $1.1 billion came from agriculture and forestry industries, respectively. In Auckland, where agriculture and forestry does not occur, the estimated $3.1 billion from Maori producers included $2.1 billion from the ‘other’ industry category (including food processing, manufacturing, building and construction, accommodation and restaurant trade, transport, communications and business services.) NBR Sept 2009.

            Information about the current Maori contribution to the economy can be found at: http://berl.co.nz/assets/Economic-Insights/Economic-Development/Maori-Economy/BERL-2011-The-Asset-Base-Income-Expenditure-and-GDP-of-the-2010-Mori-Economy.pdf

    • StupidDisqus

      State school education. Gets ’em every time.

    • Hazards001

      What a load of soft cock left wing twaddle.
      I’ve not only read the treaty I wrote a paper on it for my Ex wife’s degree.
      Waitangi Day has no relevance to most kiwis and it has nothing to do with ignorance.

      The treaty of Waitangi itself is a flawed document and is the over riding cause of why we are so behind Australia in so many things today. And you can’t even claim that without it the racial divisions so prominent in Australia would be here because that’s a blatant lie. Most people had never heard of the damn treaty until Doug Graham unleashed the gravy train on us.

      And the result has been that the Maori that thought they were equal in the 1970’s and went to work and school and succeeded became in the late 1980’s down trodden and deserving of handouts to the point we have got to now of the entitlement mentality and the finger of blame for Maori ineptitude being firmly pointed at all non Maori New Zealanders.

      Quite frankly I doubt that YOU have anything intelligent or worthwhile to say. You sound like someone with a sense of entitlement to me.

      • disqus_iFuU9ZxTgP

        Nice that you have to default to male genitalia for impact – maybe you felt the need to compensate? For your information I stand on the Right and for your information I have a post graduate qualification from a university, not in social reform but in commerce. And while I’m on that subject, writing a paper for your wife’s degree (nice that she had you cheat for her) does not mean you understand what the Treaty of Waitangi means. I did a Commercial Law paper on the Treaty of Waitangi too – and a whole bunch of idiots that walked out of the class still ignorant of what the Treaty of Waitangi meant. That I dug a little deeper to find a whole side of our nation’s history that validates its existence and value can either be attributed to how much I care about this country, or how much I didn’t want to be ignorant. And for your information we’re not behind Australia in everything, just in minerals and population. And when you refer to “the Maori” you probably have a drop or two in you that you don’t know about, but even you don’t, technically you are talking about yourself. Oh, and by the way, I nor my family have ever claimed anything under the Treaty of Waitangi. I have never been a recipient of public health benefits after age 17, I’ve never been incarcerated, been on a benefit or ripped off the IRD, my father died fighting under the flag of this country for democracy, I have a student loan because I paid my own way through university. If you could see your way past the ignorance, fear and prejudice you obviously are afflicted with, you may actually want to acknowledge – that bar a minority few, Maori are doing their very best like most Kiwis to survive this world and pull their weight.

        • Hazards001

          I’m a 7th generation New Zealander; I have a long history or ancestors who have been wounded or died fighting for NZ including my own father.

          I’m neither ignorant nor afraid and most certainly not prejudiced. I have
          nephews that are part Maori and their father is one of my best friends. My very best friend just passed away recently and I helped pay for his Tangi so don’t give me any of your holier than thou crap. As to my ex-wife being a cheat…well…she is my ex for a reason! As to never having claimed any benefits or whatever well blah blah blah for you.

          You are clearly of Maori descent and have an axe to grind, which I will have you know I can categorically state I am not and I know my family tree well.
          Therefore I retract and apologise for the “What a load of soft cock left
          wing twaddle.”

          And instead I’ll replace it with “What a load of typical self interested bullshit” I don’t give a rats arse what you studied at Uni or what it cost you. Your original post is typical of the “I have my hand out and I will keep it out mob you represent.”

          I’m sure with your commerce degree you can explain to me the logic of the full and final treaty payments for Ngai Tahu and Tainui being revisited again as reported on Waitangi day in the NZ Herald?

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10863705

          It has no end does it? But of course the treaty is for the benefit of us all..YEAH RIGHT!

          • Mr_Blobby

            This clown sounds like one of the maori elite, they really want an apartheid state with them, less than 1% of the population, in control.

            Had to laugh when the south Africans refused to allow the maori rugby team to tour, because it was selected on the grounds of race.

          • Hazards001

            Yeah, which is kind of suckfull that we feel that way sometimes, I’m a very proud Kiwi and Maori are part of the thing that makes me Kiwi, the culture and people are fantastic and it make us unique.
            Then there are the people like disqus ifU that are exactly as you say, the Maori elite and they are the ones that are on the Maori Councils and get the big coin and the Merc car and then look down on all the real Maori I know that go to work everyday and have F all cos the brown nosed troughers are back at the table with hands out again to re visit another claim and walk all over their people.
            How many of my ex coal miner mates at Tainui have benefited from the mega millions paid out to them?As far as I know not one…ummmmm…apart from the Paki family of course..and I used to go to the Maori Queens home for a cuppa on the way home from work most dayshifts as I dropped her grandson home.
            Calling me racist is like calling the sky green!

          • disqus_iFuU9ZxTgP

            I’m not a Maori elite. My white ancestors came from Oxford in 1840 and were flax-millers in Christchurch. My Maori ancestors never lost their land but we are not rich. By virtue of being listed as Maori on every document or application (even though I don’t look it) I was dragged into the struggle to help others fight racism ever since I could understand the sting of discrimination. Regardless I am a die hard loyal New Zealander and a self-made business woman. I’ve never had a handout, and every dollar I’ve made for myself and others has been from scratch and just plain hardwork. I detest what runanga stand for, and actively oppose the marginalisation and disenfranchisement of Maori by our own as well as others. I have never signed a treaty claim voting paper and I will never work for an organisation that gains from consulting over treaty settlements. My interest in the Treaty of Waitangi is simply to uphold the rights of individuals and families (whanau and hapu) to protection, and participation. Unlike you I have never felt the need to put someone down because of race, religion or station in life, my only fight is against bigotry and arrogance.

  • my take put very simplistically

    It is certain that there were crimes perpetrated against Maori and that land was stolen – tribes were provoked and land confiscated as a result of retaliation etc. this is a matter of historical fact.

    What did the land mean to Maori in the day? there was no real concept of title or ownership as i understand, a tribes strength or diplomatic prowess decided how much land a tribe controlled or had use of. primary use would be the resources the land or coastline afforded for sustenance – food clothing shelter etc.

    In stealing and confiscating land the crown at the time denied many Maori the ability to make a living via the traditional methods of hunting and gathering.

    The world has changed and there are not many if any Maori who live off the land the same way they did back then so simply handing land back to a group claiming to be representative of a particular tribe is going to be largely ineffectual and will not benefit the greatest number of Maori only a few at the top will benefit.

    The way that anyone in NZ today makes a good life for themselves now days – they go out and get and get a good education and then find a well paying job and then slog it out for the next 50 years – the key asset here is the Education received that enables this.

    My suggestion to redress Maori for Grievances and distribute the benefit to all Maori Fairly is this. All education right through to Tertiary and university education is to be given freely at no cost to Maori, Provided they achieve the required entry qualification levels that anyone else would have to. and also with the requirement that any person receiving education freely as a treaty redress must maintain a satisfactory passing grade to ensure continuing right the education system..

    This puts the responsibility for success in life squarely on the shoulders of the individual. and removes many of the current excuses for underachieving.

    yeah i know . this is simplistic but a good start nevertheless

    • spollyike

      So how will you define maori?

      • that’s a very good question. you cant go by skin color these days I’ve seen some mighty white looking Maori activists. maybe one or more parent on the maori electoral role? perhaps being able to demonstrate via family records that you are indeed a decendant of a new zealand maori – i myself am only 1/64th and i’d feel pretty bloody cheeky trying to claim anything because of ancestry – but some will try i have no doubt.

        • spollyike

          it’s fuckin’ ridiculous. To be “maori” a person should have to be over 50% maori pure ancestory, and i mean not just a mother who calls herself maori and a father who is another ethnicity, i mean proven 50%. Otherwise they are just taking the piss – they are not maori, they just want the maximum benefits of the entitlement system on offer as a result of our appeasing apologist governments that are only after the part-maori vote. What a fukin’ croc of shit!

    • Mr_Blobby

      Your still advocating special treatment, for one group. Every Citizen should be treated equally. No exceptions.

      Yes shit happened as it has for thousands of years, around the World, at some point you have to let it go and move on.

      One people one Nation, no exceptions.

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