The sky has come just a little bit closer to falling in on us all

Two events overnight have brought calamity of the human race just a little bit closer.

Last night in parliament the Same-Sex marriage bill passed its second reading:

Same-sex marriage inched another step closer late last night when MPs backed it overwhelmingly at the second hurdle, with only a handful of previous supporters turning against it.

Labour MP Louisa Wall’s bill passed its second reading 77-44, a drop in support of three votes from the first reading.

What I find interesting is the large number of hypocrites in the Noes. Plenty plus of them there like to run one up any bit of skirt they can find, so their definition of marriage is obviously different from that of Bob McCroskrie. More than a few also have their own ‘gay’ marriage…come on guys stop being sooks and blouses and how about swapping over to the ayes next time.

The second calamitous event is the election of the anti-Pope early this morning.

AP130314071320_460x230

Cardinals have elected Argentine Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio as the new pope to lead the world’s 1.2 billion Catholics, overcoming deep divisions to select the 266th pontiff in a remarkably fast conclave.

Bergoglio is the first ever pope to come from the Americas and the first from outside Europe in more than a millennium. He chose the name Pope Francis I.

Tens of thousands of people who braved cold rain to watch the smokestack atop the Sistine Chapel jumped in joy when white smoke poured out a few minutes past 7pm, many shouting “Habemus Papam!” – or “We have a pope!” – as the bells of St Peter’s Basilica and churches across Rome pealed.

 


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  • LabTested

    The first Pope from Latin America, but the BBC say his dad was an immigrant from Italy. Not as radical as the headlines make out

    • Auto_Immune

      Yeah, he seems to be a true compromiser’s choice. Which may not necessarily be a bad thing.

  • Andy

    In other news, climategate 3.0 is here

  • starboard

    ..those mp’s who voted in favour of the same sex marriage bill are on their way to hell…
    you’ll see..

    • PlanetOrphan

      On their way to Hell to meet the new Pope in his new pointy hat M8!

    • exactly when will we see though?

      • starboard

        read the good book my friend.

        • its a little vague on timing

        • unsol

          Jekyll and Hyde ringing a few bells for ya there portside?

    • grumpy

      Some are there already.

      • unsol

        And you have this on who’s authority?

        Be careful about making assumptions chirpy, it could come to bite you on the arse & those big pearly gates may just shut in your face; after all, the measure with which you judge others will of course be used to judge you.

        • grumpy

          You have misinterpreted………

          • unsol

            Really? How? Portside said some MPs would be on their way to hell & you said in direct response to him that some were there already.

            Can’t see any ambiguity there chirpy!!!

          • grumpy

            I would think being in the Labour caucus looking at the poll debacle and a useless leader and being low on the list while slowly eating away time until the next election and the following oblivion would be a good definition of hell.

          • unsol

            Ohh, I see. Good call & fingers crossed eh or this ME Bill will be the least of your worries!

          • grumpy

            I don’t give a flying f**k about the ME bill. It’s the poofter loving haters and bigots I can’t stand.

          • unsol

            But you don’t hate those who hate & are bigoted towards the LGBT? Isnt it better to hate all bigotry?

          • grumpy

            Nope, it’s hypocrisy that gets me. The holier than thou haters and bigots of the poofter cheer squad railing against the haters and bigots of the opposition and calling THEM haters and bigots.

          • unsol

            I completely agree – I cant stand those who call people bigots etc then embark on their own form of vigilantism.

            The only thing to remember though is that when it comes to this issue, it is only the rights of one side that is being personally affected.

          • BJ

            You are amazing – no really Can you not see that you are the very person you keep ridiculing?

          • unsol

            Again what’s your pay off BJ? Surely you have better things to do than stalk my comments? You make accusations yet the definitions of the words you use – if you bothered to pick up a dictionary, don’t apply to my comments.

            And no that isn’t ridiculing you, it’s just dismissing your claim as juvenile & unsubstantiated.

    • unsol

      Right, because you clearly have what it takes to not only assume God’s place, but actually join Him in heaven…..best to start those anti psychotic drugs again portside as you really are off your rocker.

      • starboard

        whatever Paul…Unsol…Kosh…Gayguy…

        • BJ

          Unsol disclosed the other day that she was a wife/woman and has a husband that cheers her articulate blogging on. I’ve got a handle on most regular bloggers on here and I don’t think there is anyone else that acts more as attack dog on the person, rather than just put forward their views – bar your aforementioned.

          • unsol

            BJ you can claim that, but first you need to provide examples – show what my comments are in response to before you try & suggest I have questionable character. I tell off those who have the audacity to make derogatory comments then claim the moral high ground. The former precludes the latter.

            The reality is good decent people dont go around calling others by derogatory names just to try & get oneupmanship in a debate; defending the indefensible is not something to be commended.

            Hypocrisy is no friend of mine. I suggest you ensure the same.

          • BJ

            Read all that you have written today, especially what you’ve just written – then go look in the mirror

          • unsol

            No need to as I’m not the hypocrite. I mean everything I say. I will always stand my stance against those who pull a ‘holier than though’ then pass judgment or make crass, belittling or derogatory comments a second later.

            I suggest you go back and re-read what you are defending then see whether you still have a moral compass…

          • BJ

            ” I tell off those who have the audacity to make derogatory comments then claim the moral high ground. The former precludes the latter.The reality is good decent people dont go around calling others by derogatory names just to try & get oneupmanship in a debate; defending the indefensible is not something to be commended.”

            I am not the one you are usually engaging with so as an observer what you have written above is you!

          • unsol

            Like I said, go & have a read of what I have been responding to then come back & tell me what you are defending so much is OK. Here’s a taste:

            Id like to see Adam pop a baby out of his ass… that’s how ridiculous you homos are

            Ya not normal pal

            You’re a fuck wit

            You arse bandits are disgusting

            You’re a sick fucking faggot. You’re disgusting

            And this is OK by you?

          • BJ

            You represented yourself the other day as a married woman – is that the truth?

          • grumpy

            No

          • unsol

            Grumpy! I can answer for myself thank you!

          • unsol

            Represented? No. I stated I am. Big difference. And your point? Are you?

          • grumpy

            I call bullshit on that. Don’t believe all you are told. To many similarities in the hate speech.

          • unsol

            Grumpy, you are in no position to try & put the hate speech on me sunshine…..after all, it was you who nearly dared to dance with moderators & get kicked off for good.

          • grumpy

            Wow! That’s an amazing memory……..

            Anyway, it was only Petal and she was just having fun…….

          • unsol

            Petal is a guy grumpy!

            And yep, I’m a girl so I remember everything :)

          • BJ

            Unsol writes like a woman – admitted to “telling off” and uses lots of cliches. Lots of female hormones anyway

          • spollyike

            post-meno.

          • BJ

            Careful – So far you have displayed impeccable character

          • unsol

            So did you until you attempt a sexist insult!

          • BJ

            Wasn’t meant to be insulting – mere observation.

            By the way – why don’t you ever put the disgusting vulgar rants of some of the homos on this blog in their place – seeing as you are judge and juror of everyone else’s behaviour

          • unsol

            How?

            And I yes I do tell the gay men – not homos (as far as I know no lesbians, transgenders or bisexuals have commented on here) off. I have told gayguy off quite a few times for constantly undermining his own cause. He comes on here like dog with rabies & just starts gunning for all & sundry. But then most assume he is Kosh so it is no surprise.

          • BJ

            Look lady – when I say something I own it – I observed your written response were female and only because others kept saying you were Gayguy or Kosh – I decided to draw you out – and it worked!

            You will no doubt have the last say in this – I pity your husband

          • unsol

            You didn’t draw me out, I have said many times on here I am happily married & make frequent references to my husband & child re economic & education issues.

            You give yourself far too much credit – I chose to respond to you so you would comment more as you pop up on this issue, but only briefly.

            Anyhow, have you edited this? Didnt you say my word count was a giveaway?

            As for you pitying my husband – dont. He loves me & appreciates women who tell wankers to fuck off. :)

          • BJ

            I said your long, emotive, always critical responses are a giveaway – never mentioned word count. I wished for the doubters to see you are a woman – takes one to know one

          • unsol

            You seem to be trying to be patronizing BJ & your last response implies you are female also. I’m not sure what you think the pay-off is as aside from defending wankerish comments then attempting critique mine by assuming some kind of superiority, you havent really said much.

            If you are going to take the time to log on shouldn’t you at least express & substantiate your own views? And best to use a dictionary….

          • BJ

            Best you stop trying to analyze others motives and start being honest about yours

          • unsol

            Right, because my views on here are so ambiguous.

            Nice one liner if it had any relevance.

            Question is BJ, what are your motives? Lots of little one liners, no substance, when are you going to put your cards on the table?

          • BJ

            Just have a long hard look in the mirror tonight and see if you like what you see

          • unsol

            Pre – far too young for that.

            Now you’re really showing your true colours….I wonder if you show your comments to your wife??? Better not dolly or shop will be shut for a while :)

          • spollyike

            LOL unsol, shop is shut pretty much, she’s 7 months pregnant. I wouldn’t show her my comments like some child, but idf i did she’d laugh at a few of them. She would rather a fought my moralistic points on blog sites than drag her into a discussion after work. I’m sure you can relate.

          • unsol

            Sharing views you air in public with your spouse is childish, it’s part & parcel of a good relationship. But yes timing is everything & given how many comments we have both written on here today I think it is fair enough to say that there is far better ways to spend couple time!

            Sounds like you guys will have your hands full – preschooler & a new baby….looks like your blogging days are numbered there spolly!

            See you.

          • starboard

            writes like a woman because unsol is gay…its kosh/gayguy/Paul

          • unsol

            Come one portside, is that the best you can come up with? As if a woman being called gay or male on a blog means anything! Just silliness really!

            On a serious note though, I have often wondered whether you are Kosh/gayguy (havent seen paul) & are just trying to play the devil’s advocate….but perhaps I am giving you far too much credit.

          • It isn’t so fuck off with the amateur and failing guess work

          • unsol

            The fact that I have feminism syntax is meant to be an insult?

            Surely you can do better…

          • BJ

            I would be very surprised if you weren’t a women – even gay men keep their posts short, without cliches and the real giveaway is that you do ‘tell’ everyone else off that doesn’t share your view.

    • So that is 63% of them. Doubt it much – in fact doubt it very much. I would go at a stretch further and say the ultra conservatives might be heading down that hellish path. As you said – you’ll see

  • LesleyNZ

    Any social change vote such as the gay marriage bill – definition of marriage bill should be a referendum where we the voter decide democratically whether we want the proposed social change legislation. Bob McCroskrie has attracted much criticism and flack – especially on this blog. That is the consequence when you stand up for Christian values these days. Watching our MP’s, especially the Labour and Green MP’s and some National MP’s last night on telly, was watching people who are so full of their own self-importance.
    Time will tell whether the sky falls in. Don’t mock too much.

    • any social change which removes/dilutes christian values is the tits, you flat-earthers need to wake up and smell the lack of brimstone

      plusthere is as much chance of the sky falling in as there is of the black caps winning a test series

      the age of adam and steve is upon you whether your big book of fairy stories likes it or not

      • LesleyNZ

        Do you feel better now?

      • Bunswalla

        You’re the one with the fairy stories, surely?

      • starboard

        Id like to see Adam pop a baby out of his ass… that’s how ridiculous you homos are

        • you must be catholic if you’d like to see that

          weirdo

          and not everyone who disagrees with your simpleton world view is a “homo”

          • grumpy

            What is all this “catholic” shit? It may suit you poofter lovers to blame everything on the doolans but EVERY society and religion has a form of marriage and it is ALWAYS just between male and female.

          • so?

          • grumpy

            “So?”….so it’s a “civilisation” thing – not a “catholic” thing.
            A passing fad in the great sands of time. Sharia will sort it when it arrives.

          • i didn’t say it was a catholic thing

            and civilisation becomes more civilised all the time, this is just a nother improvement

          • grumpy

            And Islam, that movement so beloved by the left still stays the same – but spreading. Coming soon to a neighbourhood near you.

          • BJ

            Er No It is a backward step that will spiral downwards

          • starboard

            ya not normal pal

          • unsol

            If you’re the definition of normal then clearly we were not made in God’s own image.

          • grumpy

            No, but the more stupid like Kosh, gayguy and now you are.

        • unsol

          Man of God right there people ^…NOT.

      • Gazzaw

        It’s not done to ‘Up vote’ yourself NMR.

        • PlanetOrphan

          That was me ya plonker

          • grumpy

            I don’t think Gazzaw wants to claim you. Find someone else to belong to.

          • PlanetOrphan

            What ? r u looking for a life partner Grumpy ? …. not interested.

          • grumpy

            You said you were Gazzaw’s plonker – I was just pointing out the fact.
            Not my fault of you’re illiterate.

          • PlanetOrphan

            Nup , I voted up NMR comment … get it yet ?
            U and Gazzaw are the plonkers , don’t ever put words in my mouth again grumpy.

          • grumpy

            No when Gazzaw, very politely asked who was the batshit crazy bastard who voted up NMR’s comment, you replied (and I’ll help you out with spelling and punctuation,
            “That was me, your plonker”

          • PlanetOrphan

            His comment ….

            “It’s not done to ‘Up vote’ yourself NMR.”
            Not asking, Not Polite and it was me that voted up NMR.

            Understand yet ya moronic petulent little blowarse ?

          • grumpy

            I looked up “ya” in the Concise Oxford Dictionary and it’s not there. If you want to go around inventing words that don’t exist, don’t complain when people interpret things in a way you don’t like.
            I am sure your teachers will explain that to you when you get to year 11.

          • PlanetOrphan

            Go do an IQ test Grumpy tickle.com then we’ll talk
            I’m 126 by the way.
            Which is 244 on your “Old Scale”

            I tell people 600+ sometimes to shut them up, and you can ask Steven Hawkings if that’s valid if you like.

          • grumpy

            Only 126? That explains a bit. Maybe a requirement should be an IQ of over 130 AND get to year 11.
            By the way…it’s “Hawking” not “Hawkings”………………..

          • PlanetOrphan

            Whatever grumpy go do the tickle test , I said 244 can’t ya read ?

          • BJ

            Holy Shit! Your’re a genius!

          • PlanetOrphan

            So they say bud

          • BJ

            Are you the real Little Prince – Planet Orphan?

          • PlanetOrphan

            Well ….

            I am a quarter French, was engineered by Nazis, and I’m the product of two mens genes mashed together in a black aboriginal womens’ womb.

            They bleached me in that womb and stuck glass needles in my brain, did Hipno Therapy and abused me for close to 20 years, with the full knowledge of the New Zealand authorities.

            The undercover police continued the torture until today, They did say they were sorry though.

            Answer your question BJ ?

            Not a prince, I’m a bastard orphan, I’m proof that two men can procreate. What’s more I know a great many people in this country who started life in the same manner.

          • BJ

            You mean from Y chromosomes only – thats incredible! Do you look like a freak?

          • PlanetOrphan

            Ever heard of cloning BJ ?
            And yes I look like a feak.

          • BJ

            This is sounding scary. Are you cloned from a gay man?

          • PlanetOrphan

            Yes and so are you BJ, That’s why you are scared.
            Just like my Maggot foster brother who has a heart attack everytime the subject comes up…

            Some kind of emotional response to his delusion no doubt.

            And yes he came from the same “Factory”

          • BJ

            Yeh I speak English but something must have gone horribly wrong cause I’m missing some parts

          • unsol

            Yep it did, your a missing decent punctuation….

          • BJ

            Ha Ha Did you mean -Yep it did. You’re missing decent punctuation?

          • unsol

            No, I meant yep you did, but chose it; just like a cat pretends to let a mouse run away…..for someone who doesn’t like to get drawn in you do make it awfully easy. Yet I thought you drew me….go figure!

          • BJ

            You’re not winning today

          • PlanetOrphan

            I’m not sure how but apparently it’s acidity levels of the host that cause “Male” or less for Female.

          • Bunswalla

            “proof that two men can procreate”

            Fair pissed meself, I did.

          • unsol

            I hope you are telling the truth when bringing up such a serious side topic as eugenics under the Nazis rather than just copying stuff from wikipedia to play with some of the obvious fish on here.

            But for you personally, I hope you are playing with them as that is incredibly traumatic.

          • PlanetOrphan

            Absolute truth bud, my life summarised.

          • unsol

            I’m really sorry to hear that.

          • PlanetOrphan

            Thanks, it’s my ability to remember it for what it was that stands me apart, like I said many others are like me.
            But I do live with physical pain everyday as a result, and they would too.
            Same “Process” , varied results and implementation etc.
            And in my opinion freaking evil in design and implementation as well.

          • unsol

            Your’re??? You’re not :)

          • BJ

            You’re not feeling like a winner today are you?

          • unsol

            It’s not a feeling, it’s a state of being & I am always a winner. Thank you for your concern though. I’m touched.

            But are you? You seem irritated? Is this getting too much for you? Are you not used to your sexist digs & ad hominem attacks falling flat on their arse?

          • BJ

            I’m not irritated at all and I’m not the one using bad gutter language, I’ve merely made a statement (pity your husband), observed a behaviour (bitchy) and asked a question (are you psychotic?) Read what you have written

          • unsol

            We’ve covered this, keep up BJ!

          • BJ

            But IQ doesn’t mean you have EI or FI or SI or TI

          • PlanetOrphan

            So true Batman , gee wilickers :-)

          • tarkwin

            I’m not too up on these new fangled I.Q tests but at a guess I’d say you scored fuck all in the humility section.

          • PlanetOrphan

            Grumpy started it, I was just stopping it and I’ve been telling people 126 since I was ten, not the 244 they said I was …
            Tickle.com agreed with me.

          • tarkwin

            Lighten up there P.O, it’s almost beer o’clock here at Tarkwin Towers and this tread is hilarious!

          • PlanetOrphan

            Light as a feather Babe :-)

            Or in the words of that Pilot dude from Serenity …
            I am a leaf on the wind see how I *squish*

          • unsol

            Ah oh, whether you’re playing or being serious people are going to freeeak out now…!

      • grumpy

        “the age of adam and steve is upon you whether your big book of fairy stories likes it or not”
        So no Cain and Abel then………….?????

      • unsol

        10 dislikes for stating common sense….it must be all 10 christians still left in NZ….don’t let the gates of hell slap you on the back side on your way down people!

        • grumpy

          Nah, we’re all Buddist, Hindu, Islamic etc. Why are you so obsessed with christians?

          • unsol

            Wrong word chirpy – assumption not obsession.

            Whale says he is a Christian so that would naturally draw some in….but doubtful it would draw Buddists, Hindu or Islamic.

            And have you not seen the amount of times people have brought God – not Allah et el into the debate?

            If not, name one person who has brought up their alternative faith to justify their views?

          • grumpy

            Plenty have bought up “no faith” but you still want to label them as “christians”…….a label you use indiscriminately and interchangeable with “bigot” and “hater”.
            Coincidentally, the exact same method as gayguy, kosh, whaleoil etc.
            Coincidence – much?

          • unsol

            I was labelling the ones who bring God into the debate as Christians (in the loosest possible sense of course. I don’t personally consider such people Christians at all).

  • 4077th

    I am equally uninterested in both.

  • BJ

    Every persons voice should be heard re this proposed major social change because ultimately it will affect us all. I would like my vote recorded for the future generations of my family to see how I was looking beyond my lifetime when considering the implications of devaluing the partnership between man and woman as the basis of cooperation, understanding and embracing their compliment in society.

    For a sneak preview of future society go see a Mad Max movie. Note the goons and weirdo’s as the basis of the an-archaic, society gone wrong.

    • You are aware that votes are conducted in secret aren’t you?

      • BJ

        LOL Yes But I would know and might start a diary one day…….

  • parorchestia

    This whole affair shows how much we need a constitution to protect us from the whims and machinations of a determined minority. There is a government appointed body going around the country supposedly talking to people about constitutional matters. In fact they seem to be talking at people. Expect our present unsatisfactory constitutional arrangements, which were breached unmercifully by Aunty Helen, to be cast into constitutional stone, and even worse, much worse, Te Tiriti o Waitangi, in its weak Maori form, to be a constitutional document. God Help Us for no one else can.

  • unsol

    Good stuff on the ME. Really sad to read what some people have been writing in. And some of the points arguing the case against were hilariously inaccurate & silly. I especially loved the ones that tried to base their views on statutory interpretation. Epic fail. Good to at least pass laws 101 before attempting to play with the big stuff!

    Re the pope – why is this big news? Most people in nz are not catholic.

    • spollyike

      Is this a repost??? Unsol posted this hous ago, WTF. Is someone manipulating our posts to lead the discussion…dodgy as.

      • unsol

        Nope it was my first post…..like you I have got the word count up big time today! Yep it’s that time of the month (re your earlier comment)…..aah, but not in the way you’re thinking….just procrastinating re doing our business accounts.

      • grumpy

        Caught on have you?

  • spollyike

    Poll the people, poll the people, pole the people!! Whale why have you never polled your readers on this?? What are you afraid of?

    • Have you ever had the impression Whaleoil takes into account what other people think?

      • spollyike

        Nope, but still hoping….

        • spollyike

          He wouldn’t dare poll us. It would shatter the cognitive dissonance that makes up his comfort blanket.

          • unsol

            I dont think he would care. He knows most commentators on here are against ME, but what does that matter? It’s not like it has made you guys stop reading his blog has it!

            It’s a bit like the Nats – they know they will have the votes next election because there just isnt a viable alternative.

            Just like right wing blogs – where would you hang out? NZ conservative?

          • spollyike

            ideally.

      • grumpy

        What day are we talking about…..?

      • BJ

        No, but he does take polls into account

    • unsol

      You’re a mathematician in training – how much faith do you have in polls, especially if they count against you?

      • spollyike

        total faith = faith in a true democracy.

        • unsol

          Me too….providing they have polled more than 1600 people & the margin of error is less than 2.5% :)

  • cows4me

    This is the same sort of procedure/argument when our so called elected leaders rammed the repel of S59 down our throats. It’s the same we know best argument, it’s the same sort of noble cause sort of argument. The repel of s59 was to herald in a new age of protection of our young, what a crock of shit that turned out to be . How many child abuse cases now, more then you can count on one hand , I fucking know that. This gay marriage lark employees the same emotive tactics, is dressed up as society advancing to a higher level and of course uses the word of the decade “equality”. Yeah we’ll get this rammed down our throats to, the fucktards always know best. We don’t have governemnt we have social engineers. And will all be peace and love and will society be a better place when gay marriage gets the nod, fucking doubt it, it’s just another broken rung on the ladder.

    • starboard

      + 1

    • unsol

      You can’t be serious: trying amendments to align a law that allowed those who beat their child to death with a hose of a vacuum cleaner with a law that allows a minority to give them full, not partial equality is the talk of a straw man for sure.

      • spollyike

        They aren’t a minority, Males and Females make up approximately 50% each of our population. You can’t give equal rights to a disorder or psychiatric condition, you may as well say why don’t we let pedo’s (male or female) marry kids, or those that believe in cannibalism (male or female) eat who they chose, wouldn’t that be equal rights also? Also can you clarify how the civil union bill fails to give equal rights to homosexuals? By the way: In many traditional Melanesian cultures a prepubertal boy would be paired with an older adolescent who would become his mentor and who would “inseminate” him (orally, anally, or topically, depending on the tribe) over a number of years in order for the younger to also reach puberty. Is that an example of equality to you?

        • unsol

          Yes they are. Those who identify as LGBT are a minority – they make-up less than 10% of the population.

          I have no idea how to respond to your comment equating same sex attraction with disorder. It defies belief.

          But if it was your clumsy way of saying that those who are LGBT are not perfect because their sexual preference doesn’t naturally result in reproduction then if perfection was the standard, no one would get married. Everyone has something wrong them – in terms of sex, there is the issues around mental health & how it can affect libido, then there is the men who cant get it up or who ejaculate too quickly, women who hate the feeling of sex, men who are useless in the sack (people have expectations these days that go beyond pregnancy), men with unsightly bits on their penis, or are too small (remember, women know how to count in inches). In terms of other imperfections – men who bald, unsightly moles, excess hair, big noses, big ears, not enough hair, disproportionate body parts (small hands or feet, stumpy legs & long torsos) – all things many find unattractive & therefore considered by some as unlikely to secure a long-term mate.

          Civil union vs marriage? You are commenting on this debate & have to ask this question? Well, since you ask, there are a couple of differences: only married people can adopt a child as a couple. Anyone can adopt a child, but if you are CU or de facto then the other spouse only gets given the status of permanent guardian. Further, the Health (Immunisation) Regulations 1993 does not treat de facto partners as “parents” for the purposes of providing information about the immunisation of a child.

          Other than that CU & marriage are the same so the debate is about the LGBT having the same right to full citizenship as heterosexual couples; they have the same rights in every other aspect of the law bar marriage hence why incest, bestiality & pedophilia are irrelevant. When such acts are seen as OK amongst society & the acts themselves have been made legal then we can talk marriage.

          Re Melanesian cultures – irrelevant. That is the same as me bringing up the fact that until recent times, marriage was often between an older guy & young girls.

          It is with good reason that such practices were outlawed in Western countries; children are not in a position to give consent and further, when children are being molested it is against their wishes. A pedophile is akin to a rapist. So your example is irrelevant and morally repugnant.

          Cannibalism – if someone is keen to be eaten then I have no issue with that. But there has to be consent. Find me a person who is willing to be eaten alive & I will accept your example as being relevant.

          • spollyike

            Unsol, why should a couple adopt a child if they do not possess the necessary “equipment” to make a child? Don’t use the argument about infertile couples either as that is equipment failure which is completely different. The homosexual marriage argument is weak, it’s all about stealing a word and sending out the politically correct hounds (such as yourself) to justify that theft. Be an individual, you obviously have something against the status quo but change for the sake of change won’t improve your perception of reality as you have been taught that there is never enough change and you will move on to the next “progressive” cause your leaders WHIM dictates.

          • BJ

            The best post of the day – says me

          • unsol

            Re infertility explain how is it different? And the couple thing is a formality – such couples have already adopted, it’s just that only one person gets to sign the papers.

            And no this isnt about political correctness at all, it is about the equality. Removing the last loophole that allows some people to continue to justify their bigotry & treat LGBT like lepers.

            In many ways, allowing LGBT to almost equality is worse than them having none as by saying they can do everything but get married is still saying sorry, you’ll never be one of us. It is separatist for no reason.

            This isnt change for the sake of change, it is rectifying a wrong that should never have existed.

            Question is, why do you oppose it so much? What makes you think that 2 people of the same sex being together is so wrong? Who told you their sex was wrong? And what parts? All oral & anal sex or just that between 2 men…..you realise that there was never any law against lesbianism?

            And who told you that marriage should automatically preclude them? Despite the fact that in ancient Green & Rome – where our definition of marriage stems from, including same sex couples? And who do you think invented marriage and what was this based on?

            History tells us that we invented marriage to secure property, status & wealth. That women were chattels to be raped, sold & killed at whim & the ideal marrying age for girls was 12 (when they had generally gotten their period). Marriage used to celebrate child rape & molestation – is this the tradition you want to hold onto or go back to?

            I wonder whether it is you that is remaining with the status quo for the sake of it, that you have never really given the issues proper consideration so that you could draw your own conclusions.

          • spollyike

            Unsol your feminist (third wave) and marxist roots are showing. This is most definitely about political correctness as the progressives dictate. No-one is treating homosexuals “like lepers” just like homosexuals. Should we not treat them like homosexuals? The fact is and always has been (throughout all the history you quote ad nauseum) that a homosexual group or couple if you like cannot have children – for obvious reasons. Your arguement is akin to pet ownership, my wife and i can’t have sex and produce a cat or dog or budgie so we buy one, but this is not the same as if we created a human child is it. Homosexuals will only ever have the equivalent of pet ownership as they can no more create a human child than they can a cat or dog. End of story.

          • unsol

            Spolly you seem to be trying to convince me of your views rather than substantiate them. Spinning ones head on the eye of a needle would be easier; everyone who comes on here does so with their views firmly in place.

            Problem is, few attempt to back them up. I do, Lucia & Andrei do but that’s about it.

            As for your attempts to put 2 people of the same sex wanting to get married in the same category pet ownership because they can never naturally have kids is ludicrous. Infertile people are born that way. They naturally cant have kids ever – they may not have found out until much later (which is much the same for those LGBT who come out later such as Ali Mau), but their fertility status is the same. They have sex and can never have kids – just like same sex couples – so they adopt or use IVF.

            By persisting with this argument you are also indicating that marriage = kids but it doesnt. Thing is marriage has been evolving for decades, so this step is not revolutionary at all, it is just next.

            As for treating the LGBT like lepers – some of the comments on here make case & point.

            Marxist roots – that’s just being silly. sexual orientation has nothing to do with ideology & the push to push the State out of ones personal life is not left wing. Control of ones personal life is. So anything to confess then?

            Feminist 3rd wave – I accept. In part. I am 50/50 depending on the issue.

          • spollyike

            Unsol the argument can only go as far as the equipment used to produce the child. In the case of infertiles the equipment is faulty otherwise they would have had a child therfore adoption is justified. In the case of homosexuals the equipment needed is simply never there is it?

            In terms of the Marxis connection i was loosly making to today’s PC progressive love of all things minority. The connection between left-leaning ideologies and LGBT rights has a long and mixed history. Most socialists and members of other left wing political ideologies have supported LGBT rights.

          • cows4me

            Good on you spollyike

      • cows4me

        You fall into your own trap unsol, you talk of “beat a child to death with a hose of a vacuum cleaner”, S59 hasn’t stopped people beating to death children it was never going to. I love the emotive language though, got to put that gloss on the trud, got to use words like beat and death, very similar to “equality and bigot” adds to the flavour don’t you think. S59 was about reshaping society to how a bunch of liberal progressives believed it should be and the same could be said for gay marriage. S59 has effected ordinary decent parents just like gay marriage will effect society further down the line. It may not effect you or I but you can be damn sure it’s effects will not enhance the over all betterment of society, just like S59 has been peice of bullshit so will your much loved gay marriage.

        • unsol

          Not a trap, just an error in terms of the expression I chose.

          Beating to death a child was always indefensible, but normal abuse no.

          And since you so love to draw the comparisons between s59 & the ME Bill, the former hasnt had any impact on every day families just like the ME Bill wont.

          What were you saying about traps & falling into? Bummer, that round goes to me jersey boy. :)

          Next….

      • grumpy

        I’m sure that “a law that allowed those who beat their child to death with a hose of a vacuum cleaner” was pretty well already covered under the Crimes Act? Wouldn’t you think?

        • unsol

          Beating to death yes, but normal abuse no – hence why the repeal came in. It was meant to be stopping such people defending their abuse as merely “reasonable force”

          • unsol

            Come on grumpy, you have to justify the down vote – if I am wrong then show me where & dont use what that silly Bradford woman tried to turn it into (anti smacking bullshit).

          • grumpy

            “You can’t be serious: trying to align amendments to a law that allowed those who beat their child to death with a hose of a vacuum cleaner with a law that allows a minority to give them full, not partial equality??”

            That’s what you said then……this is what you say now.

            “Beating to death yes, but normal abuse no – hence why the repeal came in.”
            Contradicted yourself.

          • unsol

            Yes it was a contradiction so I amended it.

            But you havent justified your down vote to my comment

            “Beating to death yes, but normal abuse no – hence why the repeal came in. It was meant to be stopping such people defending their abuse as merely “reasonable force”

          • BJ

            You’ve amended quite a lot today -all the while feigning self righteous I haven’t done anything wrong – obviously not winning really

          • unsol

            What garbage BJ.

            And you’re clearly irritated…I’d call that winning!

          • BJ

            Ok I give up!
            I’ll just go and say goodnight to the youngest of my five children while you digest your prize “winner”

      • spollyike

        Unsol=unsoluble. Definition: admitting of no solution or explanation; “an insoluble doubt” so so true, how aptly you have named yourself.

        • unsol

          Oh such a bummer, I had high hopes for you as I thought you would be mature.

          But since you want to start making silly attacks on aliases….seeing as you cant come up with a plausible argument against Marriage Equality, then are you really in a position to judge mine spolly dolly? Spolly icky? :p

          An A+ for the clever connection between unsol & unsoluble….if only it was a real word!

          It is actually insoluble! Best to get your players in order before attempting check mate aye?!

          • spollyike

            try googling unsoluble then….

          • unsol

            It isn’t in the Oxford Dictionary…..

          • BJ

            Try the Collins

          • unsol

            You were using the Oxford earlier, how long did it take you to find the Collins?

            Anyhow, I did and it said ”

            Sorry, no results for “unsoluble” in the Collins English Dictionary.”

            :)

          • BJ

            I haven’t used a dictionary at all – I never do

          • unsol

            Didnt you quote the concise Oxford earlier??

          • BJ

            Pay attention to who you are reacting to unsol

          • unsol

            Dont play smart with me BJ.

            I have checked all the comments and it seems to have disappeared.

            But who cares who plays what silly games right? My point still stands. Unsoluble is not a word.

          • BJ

            I have not – spollyike is the only one who referenced the Oxford Dictionary. And if you knew me – you’d know I don’t play games

          • unsol

            No, it wasnt in reply to this/his comment, it was a reply to a comment further down the page.

            And I dont know you nor do you know me, but like you I form assumptions based on what I see people write.

          • BJ

            And pray tell – how does a post disappear other than possibly by the moderator?

          • unsol

            It wont have disappeared, just been edited…

          • BJ

            Are you psychotic? Nothing has disappeared

          • unsol

            Are you dumb? What did I say above ^….

          • BJ

            Oh I made a mistake – sorry. Have a look at all yours today.

          • unsol

            Gosh, sexist comments, defending the indefensible, patronising, ad hominem attacks & now exaggerating – quite the catch eh.

            I made two – “all yours” implies a few which is 3 or more.

            But none related to morality or values…you know, the things that matter….

          • BJ

            Your biggest was accusing me of putting up a post about a dictionary and then editing it – I did not. And you have got many other posters completely wrong as demonstrated by your responses. I’m going now – go spend some time with your child

          • unsol

            Wow, that is an awful mistake yet weirdly a non issue as unsoluble is not a word.

            The other was about s59. Again, my point on that amendment still stands.

            “Many” – once again you exaggerate. It was two people – cows & grumpy.

            My child – thank you for your concern, but I am a free lady as she is on a play-date/sleepover as no school tomorrow thanks to unionism & hubby isnt due home yet.

            You seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands….I hope I don’t have to add bludger to the list of adjectives above…that would really annoy me.

          • BJ

            Get this loud and clear – I never ever mentioned Oxford dictionary and I never ever used the word unsoluble – the only thing I said was Try the Collins I see you have now edited quite a few of your comments from today – only fooling yourself

          • unsol

            Now now BJ, take a deep breath & go back & re-read this particular section of the trail…you suggested Collins, despite not using a dictionary yourself (your words) which implied agreement with spolly’s made up word. So I corrected you too as it was unlikely you were trying to be helpful…

          • BJ

            Firstly – I only said try the Collins because Oxford is English and Collins is US so the word might be found in one and not the other. Implying is in your head only. I see below that PlanetOrphan has provided you with the dictionary definition – so, not a made up word.

          • I thought you were going…can’t stay away?

          • BJ

            You must think everyone thats been on here throughout the day aren’t that sharp – you have now moderated all your comments/changed the words a lot. Dishonest as well I see – yeah a real winner

          • unsol

            If you are going to make accusations at least provide some proof

          • PlanetOrphan

            in·sol·u·ble
            Adjective
            Impossible to solve: “insoluble problems”.
            (of a substance) Incapable of being dissolved: “insoluble fibers”.
            Synonyms
            indissoluble – unsolvable – inextricable – irresolvable

          • unsol

            He got it by BJ might need some help…

          • PlanetOrphan

            She just has to ask :-))

    • Patrick

      No doubt assisted Helen Clarke to secure her UN position, that was the intent of many of her actions after all.

    • Travis Poulson

      Since up & down votes are anonymous since the update of Disqus, I was one of the up voters. Well said.

  • starboard

    It disgusts the hell out of me..and most nzer’s for that matter.Its abhorent. Same sex marriage is a sham and social engineering at its worst. There will never be equality..marriage is for a male and a female only, end of story mincers.

    • most nzers eh?

      and organised religion is social engineering at its worst

      • spollyike

        NMR you have to be insane to think it is normal for a man to MARRY a man or a woman to MARRY a woman. You are a disgrace to our ancestors who worked hard to create the systems of law we have – for very good reasons that for some reason are invisible to the indoctrinated dumb masses.

        • “indoctrinated dumb masses”

          thats churchies surely?

          and which system of law is this going to destroy again?

          • spollyike

            it involves rewriting the law, removing references to bride and groom etc in all marriage law and adoption law, rewriting laws about how certain celebrants/priests etc will/won’t be able to say no to marrying homosexuals. In other words, in order for homosexuals to have the right to the word ‘marriage’ (just a word since the civil union bill gives them equal rights anyway – and no-one complains about that, therefore we are not homophobes), the rights of those who marry people (some centuries old institutions must be removed – is that a fair compromise do you think? You don’t realise you are simply part of the pack do you? The pack of the politically correct hounds, out to get anyone who dares to disagree with the WHIM of the pack leaders (although you aren’t really sure who those leaders really are). No matter the outcome of this little powerplay, it is ultimately up to the individual to decide whether the recognise gay marriage and no one else, no one can tell them they must recognise it if an individual chooses not to because of their own personal belief system can they?

          • tarkwin

            Nicely put, couldn’t agree more.

          • BJ

            Conservatism (in its original meaning) preserves what is good for and the basis on which society’s functioning hinges. Religion doesn’t even come in to it. When the premise that man and woman are both needed for society to balance is belittled and made insignificant then there will ultimately be no law that is upheld. Integrity is what is missing from those that vote for G.. M…….

          • are you saying that passing this bill will mean an increase in homosexuality or a shift in birthrates of a particular sex?

            how exactly is the balance of society going to change?

      • starboard

        religion is forced upon no man…unlike this horrendous piece of legislation

        • i’d advise you vote a party into power next election who will repeal this legislation then

          if most nzers are against it as you proclaim it should be a doddle

          • unsol

            Exactly.

          • Travis Poulson

            Repeal it? you mean like the anti smacking law was repealed?

            Yea, we sure got listened to that time didn’t we.

          • Not a single party is suggesting repeal, not even the Cult of Colin Craig

        • unsol

          Forced how? How does this impact you port side?

          • starboard

            because Im against it…as are the majority of NZ’ers..and we have no say. Referendum is how it should have been carried out. The small gay minority are trying to change the make up of our country. It must be stopped at all cost. Homosexuality leads to pedophilia and I worry for our children.

          • unsol

            “Homosexuality leads to pedophilia and I worry for our children.”

            80% of all pedophiles identify as heterosexuals
            1 in 4 girls are molested and/or raped by the time they are 16 with 1 in 6-10 boys. Both by men known to them – again 80-% of which identify as heterosexual.

            Referendum – agree IF it is binding. It is a big issue & the importance of marriage deserves such respect. I am sick of referendums, reviews & commissions that amount to squat but chew through our taxes.

          • starboard

            Call bullshit on all those figures.Absolute bullshit.

          • unsol

            You’ve done that before portside – we have danced this dance a few times now.

            I have directed you enough times to the appropriate source – MOH, Police & Corrections stats & Rape Crisis.

            Burying your head in the sand doesnt change the facts

          • What rubbish

        • Theres a few scandanavian countries that might disagree with you there

    • unsol

      Wow, you managed to put your point across without the use of derogatory terms.

      If only you had done that from the start instead of being such a hateful bigot.

      Next step: explain where you can justify “most New Zealanders”? I have seen no polls to indicate you have the majority support. But I have seen plenty that are in favour.

      Lastly, where did you come up with the idea that marriage is for a male & female only? Surely you have bothered to research things yourself before deciding where your views should sit? Surely you havent just taken other’s word for it?

      • spollyike

        Poll the people, poll the people! If there is a referendum then all arguements are mute, until that time your hearsay is as bad as starboards unsol. Poll the people and we can finally have some democracy in this little shit hole we call Aotearoa, whatever that means.

        • unsol

          I have no issue with a referendum, so long as it is binding. I hate my taxes (well hubby’s) being wasted.

          • grumpy

            ” I hate my taxes (well hubby’s) being wasted.”
            Too obvious, get it back under control.

          • unsol

            aye? get what under control?

          • grumpy

            Just when questions are asked about your claimed identity, you bring up “hubby” for the first time.
            I can spot a false flag miles off.

          • BJ

            Following a back and forth between us today I would swear by the bitchy demeanor it is true

          • grumpy

            Nah, the writing style, the frequent use of “bigot”, “hater” and the repetition of the same cliches that other names use. Nice try but no cigar.

          • BJ

            Hmmmm

          • unsol

            We’ve been down this road before grumpy – surely you understand what bigotry means by now.

            I also remember why you feel the way you do re your experiences with gay men.

          • unsol

            Yet it was you that brought in the personal insults by stating you feel sorry for my husband.

            Interestingly I didn’t return the favour – mainly because your comments are indicative of a troll (odd antagonious one liner but no real commentary) so not really worth too much

            I could have easily said plenty of things such as how assuming a smarmy tone to defend the indefensible means you are by far the least rootable person on here so unlikely to even score a date, let alone a long-term spouse….and that a bitch is far better than a wanker.

            But I didn’t…..

          • BJ

            My first post to you asked you to have a look at how you replied to others – you ridicule, call them names, make assumptions, rehash their post with your own slant – you didn’t even consider having a look at yourself – and yes I got pulled in – not my usual style – but you my dear have gone down to the gutter.

          • unsol

            It was one commentator – starboard. Generalisations undermine any credibility you might think you have.

            Interesting choice of word “gutter”.

            I have nothing to apologise for. I cant imagine anyone I know would ever find such comments as those by some people on here as tolerable let alone acceptable.

            Your determination to critique me whilst saying nothing whether others who have made blatant bigoted & derogatory comments reminds me of someone who had an issue with people who swore yet didn’t step up when their daughter’s partner was cheating on them….just because he had never been impolite to them.

            For me morality works in the reverse.

            And it may make you feel like you have got oneupmanship when you attempt to patronise me……but then I am not the one defending those who say things like “disgusting filth”….

          • BJ

            Interesting how all your unpleasant posts are coming back on line now since they had disappeared – is that you thats doing it or is it the moderator?

          • unsol

            Scoring in your own goal there bj as explaining is losing….bummer!

          • BJ

            What exactly am I losing?

          • unsol

            I’ve brought up my husband many a time grumpy, but what does it matter – why are you obsessed with my personal life? It’s not like I have any interest in yours – male or female is irrelevant.

          • Stop being a dick

          • spollyike

            Agreed, just as i hate wifey’s taxes being wasted.

          • unsol

            Are you at an at-home Dad? Disclosure – I’m not being a shit parent. Child is at school then has a playdate so pick-up is later!

          • spollyike

            Yes, i am the at home parent, studying a degree in Mathematics. Montessori pickup was 2:45 for my little one.

          • unsol

            Good for you..maths is fascinating. If I had my time again I would go down that road. Instead I’m an arts major – hence my love for words & long-winded debates!

          • spollyike

            Hence my like for the facts and rationality and black and white. Whereas i wager most of your opinions have been formed during in class discussions/converstions about socio-political topics which vary depending on the agenda of the lecturer (or even the universities landlord in the case of waikato uni – can’t talk about the evil tai nui there). That’s what i like about maths good solid rules, black and white answers, right or wrong, no PC bullshit, no political agenda’s.

          • unsol

            No, my opinions as an adult have been formed through life experience – my work (both paid & voluntary – I did Victim Support for many years) my brother is gay, he has gay men & women friends, I have gay men & women friends & I have met a lot of gay men & women through various things.

            One thing I have learned is that life is never black & white & sometimes there is just no explanation.

            Btw, if I was to have formed my opinions through my studies I would have been left wing!

            But yes maths is great – very straight forward once you know the formula. Although I remember arguing with my maths teacher in 7th form (year 13 if you’re young) calculus and he claimed I was too logical for maths…odd as maths is logical!

          • Well it has been a good laugh reading the comments from the Fundies and Ultra Conservatives still stuck in the Dark Ages thus far until I cam across this point about black and white.

            You poor deluded fool. The world is not black and white by the slightest, rather that it is the full coloured spectrum that makes it a unique place.Then again it takes a certain measure to appreciate the world in its full colour, colour that does give vibrance and the capability to adapt to the ever changing world. Some those who only see black and white will never see nor enjoy. No wonder why they wind themselves up like mental wrecks as seen here on an issue that wont bring society down in the slightest… The world is just far too complex for them to see fully

          • Travis Poulson

            “hence my love for words & long-winded debates!”

            We never noticed :)

          • unsol

            :) :) :)

          • BR

            ‘Instead I’m an arts major”

            It shows.

            Bill.

  • PlanetOrphan

    So ….

    If these “Ordained” priests and popes are married to God, the great silent one.
    Who’s the Girly then ?
    Must be God eh ?

    Should those priest’s lop of their dicks and call themselves Girls maybe?
    Or would they prefer to F*ck Gods’ arse tonight ?
    One wonders what God would actually have to say about a bunch of power tripping maggots calling themselves his/her “Life Partner” , let alone the Poligamy factors!.

    • Agent BallSack

      Cripes going for the record hate replies? ☺

      • PlanetOrphan

        They don’t have the Balls M8!
        ;-)

        • grumpy

          Are you completely batshit crazy??? The law of “man assaults woman” is there because the penalty is more severe……
          FFS

          • PlanetOrphan

            When I was working with the undercover police 20 years ago a whole bunch of maggots kept getting away weith beating their wives on a daily basis.
            They couldn’t be prosecuted because of the marriage certificate, so a whole bunch of new laws came into effect to help protect the victims.
            There was a problem witrh rape as well Grumpy.

          • grumpy

            Yep, batshit crazy it is then……

          • PlanetOrphan

            You a Judge or Police Officer Grumpy ?

            And Yes I am crazy, that’s why they keep asking me Grumpy.

          • unsol

            Anyone who takes the time to know anything about this debate knows full well how ugly the history of marriage is.

            Funny thing is that I remember reading a legal opinion about the law change to rape crimes in the late 90s – one judge said that rape of a girl who walked home late at night wearing a short skirt didnt count because she was asking for it.

            But why let facts get in the way of delusion…

          • PlanetOrphan

            It’s a long evil road for sure unsol, a large part of humanity still believes they can own another human being …

      • I have the pop corn out. Want some?

    • grumpy

      The vatican has a big problem with clergy engaging in homosexual orgies etc. The poofs have infiltrated the Doolans. This new Pope seems just the boy to start chucking a few out!

      • PlanetOrphan

        Infiltrated ? , engineered more likely!
        Power Tripping Maggots have always been gay buddy.

        • grumpy

          Changed sides?

          • PlanetOrphan

            What ? , go learn how to read Grumpy

          • grumpy

            Most people on this site (unlike others you frequent) are quite capable of expressing their views clearly (repugnant though some of them are).
            Perhaps we should not allow contributors until they get to year 11?

  • ConwayCaptain

    How long before El Botox Presidente comes out and says that this is a sign from God that the Falklands belong to Argentina??
    How long before Il Papa starts sticking his nose in to the Falklands problem??

    • JimboBug

      He already has previously done this – he too claims that the Falklands are Argentina’s and the soldiers invading the country had God on their side.
      But then you wouldn’t expect otherwise from somebody who gave up his fellow priests into the arms of the Junta.

  • Agent BallSack

    I have trouble understanding the anger in these posts. Its not ideal but then neither is society. Of course a whale post on marriage equality (for want of a better term) is bound to bring out strong opinions but we are better than those of the DoubleStandard ilk. This is a never ending circular hate fest, which is why I rarely comment on these kinds of posts.

    • I would concur there ABS. However I have dipped my toe in here a few times and heck it can be vicious

  • Apolonia

    Red Labour and Blue Labour continue in their efforts to destroy all the good things about New Zealand.

  • Well this was an amusing read. Usual tripe from the ultra conservatives again. So lets break down the numbers from last night. The amendment to protect religious freedoms with Ministers, Priests and other Church leaders able not to marry same sex couples passed at I believe near Absolute Majority (75%) levels. The amendment on seeking a referendum was defeated at Absolute Majority levels – if it did go through the Ultra Conservatives would of probably just have their backsides handed back to them as the numbers would of been similar to the Second Reading which passed at 63% or near Super Majority levels.

    I expect the Third Reading to pass at the same levels as last night so around 60% which is more than a simple majority. I also expect the Bill will never be repealled either with NZ Society’s current thinking

    Now to add a new dimension it is expected from the Census 2013 results that Christianity as an official identifier will slip below 50% of the Total Population if not be rather close. That means it no longer commands a majority per se and becomes a minority as such.

    If this is the case then the State has one two final decoupling duties to do. Enforce absolute separation of Church and State and remove all tax exemptions to religious organisations. Basically it means those who are sincere could become charities while the rest would be deemed “companies”and treated as such…

    I noted someone gave the meaning of Conservative. I have given the meaning of the term Liberal and Social Good which often comes from Liberalism. Wont do so now – it can be found on Wikipedia easy enough.

    But to me continued social liberalism is the way forward and actually in its purest of forms minimises the State’s influence on our lives (becomes a moderator rather than a regulator) and we the society in itself determine the morals of the era. The church could of been one aspect of society determining its morals but 2000 years of failings have basically ruined that chance cleanly (for now) (absolute power corrupts absolutely)

    So with the traditional visible church relegated (more adapative Churches seem to be coming forward and working along side the secular world in working out societies morals) it will be interesting to see where and how society contiunes forward

  • Gayguy

    I am not even going to bother to read all the posts in this thread. I know what will have been saoid without reading it.

    So I will just say suck eggs you haters. Time to either crawl back in your hole, or leave for a different country. Hate lost and love won.

    • cows4me

      Good on you gayguy, better order the cake.

    • Travis Poulson

      Thanks. same to you Paul Gordon-Ruddell.

    • starboard

      blah…

  • Travis Poulson

    I find it interesting that they’re ramming this piece of legislation through and voted against a public referendum. Democracy eh? I wonder what’s next. Fuck what the people think, just ram in on through.

    This right here people, shows how fucked up MMP and New Zealands interpretation of democracy. No public referendum, in fact we’re DENIED a referendum. Unelected arseholes with no mandate (scabby list leeches), some less than 2000 votes in the last election, voting on our behalf. We didn’t vote for them, yet they are voting on our behalf.

    This is seriously fucked up, regardless of what the bill is.

    • it isn;t being “rammed through” it is following normal parliamentary procedure, it is a private members bill and not a government bill, it simply is not possible to be “rammed through”

41%