Degrees For Everyone – The Result

Well done to the powers that be that insist everyone attend University.

The outcome has hit a new low.

In the USA you now need a degree to work as a cashier in McDonalds.

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How long before New Zealand reaches this point?

Youth wages is the only thing that will allow unqualified disruptive misfits to even get a job as a cashier at McDonalds soon.

 


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  • It is funny how everyone was warned that if the oiks were allowed into University it would simply cheapen degrees and consequently make the qualifications meaningless.

    • BJ

      Hmmmm A bit like letting LGBT into the institution of marriage – cheapening it and consequently making that qualification meaningless.

      • unsol

        Well done on referring to them as LGBT…nice to see something I have said has been taken on board. :) And I suppose you do deserve some kudos for the being the first to try & take the post on a completely different tangent!

        So tell me BJ, why is it there is so much protest against this current proposed redefinition yet not one protest agains those who continue to defile the vows meant to be synonymous with marriage – such as fidelity, parting only in death etc. Or why the defence of tradition yet just like the various Christian denominations & their multiple interpretations, no one agrees on what this tradition is actually meant to constitute – surely if you object to redefinition then the only right thing to do is take the tradition of marriage as it was first introduced 4000 years ago (legalised gay men marriages and/or pedophilia & treating women like chattels)

        In this instance such protests remind me of Labour & how they protest/ed against GST & asset sales yet do not promise to reverse either.

        Hmmmm

        • BJ

          A referendum would do it for me – and if that came back in favour of gay marriage – you would not hear another complaint from me because we need to all be in this together and there should at least be a societal consensus

          • unsol

            I agree with the referendum. On a personal note I am not too fussed about the issue either way as it doesn’t affect me personally – my brother & other LGBT people I know have no interest in getting married! In fact none of our single friends do! I just try to give a voice to the arguments that no one on here wants to hear, to try & give some balance as it saddens me how awful some people are in their attitude towards the LGBT community.

            But question is, since the Nats are going to get it through what will you do? Not vote for them & vote instead for NZ’s first gay PM?

            Seems a lot of the objection means nothing if people are not prepared to it follow through.

          • BJ

            I’m not going to let one issue – no matter my strong feelings about it – influence me to the detriment of this country – thats what a lot of wally’s did last election because they didn’t want partial asset sales. Its called cutting off your nose to spite your face – and I don’t do that.

          • spollyike

            Unsol an objection can be a private one and it can be individual. just as a group has “rights” so does an individual have “rights” (BTW, i hate the word rights as any rights that are imposed on the populace only serve to reduce the individual freedoms of said populace). So on an individual level it’s up to that individual and that individual only to decide whether they accept a “right” such as this or not. No-one, not even the state can force an individual to accept the word MARRIAGE has changes it’s meaning.

          • unsol

            Changed its meaning from what spolly? What marriage meant when it was first introduced or what it suits you to mean now? Seems to me that logic is on par with some christians who pick & choose whatever parts of the Bible they decide are most relevant.

          • spollyike

            Marriage means a lifelong union between a man and a woman, a joining of the sexes in a pact to cooperate and be faithful to one another for the rest of their lives. In this way the best possible form of continuation of our species is guaranteed. Other species do the same, i.e. Cranes, Penguins, we just happen to call it marriage. Would we call it marriage if two male Cranes or two female penguins shacked up together, i don’t think so, although you will no doubt find a way to justify it.

          • unsol

            Hmmm….not interested on spinning my head on a pin today spolly, I was merely winding you up.

            Take a breather – check out the video Travis posted. Awesome cycle-cross :)

          • Spollyike this is your 50th rant about procreation vis-a-vis gay marriage. You would have everyone believe that ‘Mrs’ Spollyike had NOT endured many a “22 second huffing puffing grunting” session by you closing her eyes and conjuring images of Roger Moore and Warren Beatty (and if you don’t believe me – just ask her! haha!)

          • spollyike

            are you one of unsoluble’s minions boy?

          • We have already had at least one gay PM.

          • unsol

            Yes I think you can assume everyone knows that, but she was openly gay so it doesn’t count….bit like how she wasnt our first female PM either…

          • Hazards001

            OMG…have I been in a coma and missed something?

            As far as I know Jenny Shipley was married as was Helen Clark.

            In fact if I remember rightly Helen Clark was even going to take one of the big 3 women’s mag’s to court for libel as they called her a lesbian..but she then declared in the media that she had decided there was no percentage in taking on the gossip mongers so she had withdrawn the suit.(of course it’s also not libel if the person being sued has proof that what they claimed is true!)

            So who pray tell was the openly gay women PM I’ve obviously missed? And what year is it?

          • unsol

            “Wasn’t” not was – typo fixed

          • Hazards001

            ahhh…yep…makes more sense now..my bad..shoulda known ya wouldn’t have clocked that up on purpose :-)

          • unsol

            It’s the stupid technology I tell you – serves me right for checking whale oil when out & about! “Didn’t” becomes “dishy” & whale becomes “shakeup” etc. I have noticed it a few times re has vs hasn’t & was vs wasn’t. In posts like this hard to keep an eye on as comments move on quickly! :-)

          • Entirely agree there should be a referendum on the matter; I believe there are a percentage of people who are opposed to gay marriage but are equally uncomfortable being seen as homophobic (especially in the eyes of the World), and as such would hold their nose and vote in favour thereby guaranteeing approval at the ballot box.

          • BJ

            Good. That’s settled then.

      • spollyike

        Nice ANALOGY BJ:)

      • Polish Pride

        I don’t think that the LGBT could do anything more to cheapen it than has already been done by heterosexuals even if they tried really really hard.

  • LabTested

    Already happening. AUT course in making coffee

    http://www.aut.ac.nz/study-at-aut/study-areas/hospitality–tourism/pre-degree-courses/certificate-in-hospitality-and-tourism

    Paper 204801 Beverage Knowledge. and I quote.

    “Develops a broad understanding and knowledge in beverages. Recognises competence and the skills required to provide an efficient beverage service”.

    I sat through a AUT graduation ceremony a couple of years ago when someone went on stage to get his “Certificate in Hospitality (Beverages)” I thought WTF then & I am still thinking it today.

    His family were all widely enthusiastic at his university success & no doubt he had a student loan

    • blokeintakapuna

      Did they offer free laptops also, use for signing up? No need to attend classes or graduate… Just sign up…. Here’s ya laptop.

  • BJ

    Not everyone is up to doing a degree and all they end up with is a sense of failure and a student loan debt. Much better for youth rates to get young people into jobs where they can maintain a sense of self worth and can achieve life skills and gain worthwhile relevant knowledge on the way. University should be left to the academic, highly motivated thinkers and the doers should be out there in the workforce doing it.

    • unsol

      I know what you are saying & in most part I agree – some kids are just not cut out for any academia whatsoever, especially since education will always cater for the mainstream (oral & aural being preferred over kinaesthetic).

      But stating “university should be left to the academic, highly motivated thinkers and the doers should be out there in the workforce doing it” implies one precludes the other. Plenty of university graduates are “doers” – in fact I would say their degree is case and point as they set tasks & complete them.

      It also suggests those who are very practical – say great at making stuff, don’t have the capacity to think. Yet some are no doubt brilliant thinkers but just struggle to put words on paper.

      And it assumes that all degrees are academic in nature. Teaching isnt (not for primary school level anyway) & neither is dentistry, nursing or medicine; I am not sure you could get more hands on than those kinds jobs!

      • BJ

        It was a generic statement unsol and I’m sure most of the people that visit this blog are sharp enough to get that. If I’d used more words, yes I could have done their thinking for them but now you have I don’t need to :)

        • unsol

          Touché :)

    • Gazzaw

      Totally agree BJ. My old man was great – no expectations on me going to uni to fulfil HIS aspirations. Just get out there and whatever it is you choose to do make sure you’re the best at it, is what he told me.

  • budger 10 7

    It would be unfair and ageist to not allow all kinds of unskilled simians to work for whatever is spat into their mouths. Remove the minimum wage. Long term unemployed should be sterilized and shipped off to the jungles of Papa New Guinea to be eaten by the natives.

  • Jimmie

    Doesn’t help in the US where they feel that manual jobs are beneath their dignity and folks end up hiring illegal Mexicans to the hard work.

    • Gazzaw

      It’s the same here Jimmie – jus substitute Indians, Chinese & Filipinos for Mexicans.

      • spollyike

        Yeah the maoris won’t do it! Those jobs are beneath pass-times such as making P, bashing your kids, getting wasted, jumping cars, stealing petrol, armed robbery and writing treaty grievances i suppose….

        • Polish Pride

          hows your KKK membership progressing btw spolly?

          • spollyike

            Whatever, it was tongue in cheek (if you know what that means in poland). I believe in equality no matter what your genetic or religious make-up. Women or man, black or white we should all be equal, and the government should not interfere with any of these (unlike NZ and maori vs everyone else). That is what i believe.

          • unsol

            But just not sexual orientation….

          • spollyike

            Don’t start that. You should be well aware i believe in equality no matter what one’s sexual orientation. What i do not believe is calling a shovel a spade. In other words calling something that is not marriage, marriage. Call it anything else no problem just do not take names from other millennium old institutions to prove some weak political point..

          • unsol

            hook line sinker :) And you have yet to quantify what “millennium old institutions” actually means when it comes to the traditional definition of marriage; tradition is tradition – you can’t pick & choose!

            Anyhoo….

          • spollyike

            You know i’m right. I can sense you changing your mind on this:)

          • unsol

            Totally! :p

          • Polish Pride

            That was pure gold :D

  • Saccharomyces

    Just another symptom of the commmodification of education through subsidisation of universitiies and student.

  • spollyike

    Yeah what the heck give everyone a degree! If they can give Cat Paws one and this guy one why not:

    “A marketing academic believes there is a good chance Te Reo Maori could become our main administrative language.It follows a move by the Geographic Board to validate Maori names for the North and South islands.University of Auckland marketing lecturer Mike Lee says this would be a similar move to what happened in Barcelona, where Catalan has become the top language.It has meant those working in the public sector in the area have had to develop an understanding before they can take up top jobs there.Dr Lee says our laid back nature makes us perfect to have more of our native tongue installed into everyday activities.”We’re easy going enough that we would let movements like that happen without putting up too much of a fuss.”

    YEAH RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • unsol

      Probably a time where you should disclose your position – spolly is studying at the moment, doing a math degree in fact.

      And nothing in the article suggests that everyone is going to get given a degree. It clearly states one must have one in order to apply….big difference.

      • spollyike

        I was implying that there are soo many cheap/easy degrees out there that they may as well give them away. Can you honestly tell me someone’s degree in woodcarving should be equivalent to a BSc in Mathematics? Do you think they would be equivalent in terms of difficulty, intelligent thinking, mental application? If not why not?

        • unsol

          I know, I was teasing…sorry, should have added an emoticon.

          Woodcarving – no such thing as a degree in that I suspect.

          Mathematics….you know I am not its biggest fan!

          But yes I agree with your sentiments & having got a degree myself I am naturally biased towards them.

          • spollyike

            i was sure you went to uni. I can picture it now…unsoluble quitely listening in treaty studies, or womens studies while the revisionist or misanthropic lecturer/great leader dictates/brainwashes you into one of the comrades:)

          • unsol

            Aah you’re on fire today dolly, you made me laugh out loud!

            BUT…..unsoluable – a non word

            quitely – a non word (quietly might ring a few bells though :))

            Hmmm good thing your degree encourages you to write formulas rather than essays aye spolly :p

            Treaty studies? That would be NZ history. Yes did a few papers! Not my major though.

            Women’s studies – I was tempted (how well you know me!), but went for something actually DID something & translated into paid work (the Ministry of Women’s Affairs doesn’t tend to generate a huge amount of employment)!

          • spollyike

            Unsoluble: Master, can I become solvable?

            Solvable, before this poem you never were!
            Undefeatable, you have been!
            Dissoluble, you are not!
            Irresoluble, you will permanently be!

          • unsol

            Haha that is very clever…..nice steal from Yoda & Zedd. Of course in the original poem they used insoluble!!!

          • spollyike

            Just asking (since you didn’t go to uni)… you have heard of synonyms right??

          • unsol

            Of course – but there are no synonyms for non words.

            There are of course a few words like insoluble….such as indissoluble, unsolvable, inextricable & irresolvable

            Baa doom tish! :)

          • spollyike

            UNSOLUBLE

            Meaning:
            Not easily solved

            Synonyms:
            insolvable; unresolvable; unsoluble; unsolvable

            Similar:
            insoluble (admitting of no solution or explanation)

          • unsol

            Writing it in caps & continuing to repeat it won’t make it an official word – it needs to be in the dictionary to count!

            And much like ‘spollyike’ I doubt this will ever happen…..UN is not the same as IN

            I really do admire your tenacity though..sure you aren’t left wing? They are very good at trying to personify the adage ‘if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth’….

          • spollyike

            The BIG LIE, that’s it. Which the revisionist historians and treaty gravy trainers’ have pulled on NZ’ers while we were quietly thinking we lived in paradise. Now their intentions are becoming more obvious by the day, co-governance of the country, a nation within a nation. All from a BIG LIE propagated when an infamous judge mentioned the word “partnership”. The treaty never mentioned partnership, the maori ceded sovereignty to Queen Victoria who they fully knew was much much more powerful than their handful of dis-unified tribes. A treaty has parties, not partners, but the BIG LIE has now gone so far and infiltrated soo deep into our education system and government agencies that we have reached the point of no return. It’s all downhill from here for NZ i’m afraid.

          • unsol

            Man you have way too much time on your hands if you’re going to go off an any & all tangents…..maybe you should swap your major from maths to something that stimulates your brain a little more…perhaps History with particular emphasis on NZ & family history (unless of course you’re afraid of being proven wrong)….or since women’s studies as your level of whinging could be a welcome attribute in the MWA.

            But I’m teasing. I have my own views on the treaty & some surprisingly full into alignment with what appears to be your views.

          • spollyike

            I am interested in advocating for men’s rights in the future. Some of what i have seen as a stay at home DAD make the “glass ceiling” look like the paper ceiling! Third wave feminism has gone too far (especially in NZ). I am a strong advocate for equality for all, as soon as i sense a case of inequality i pick up on it, be it racial, or gender based. Women in NZ get less time in prison for the same crime, women in NZ go to prison less often for the same crime, women are more often given custody of children, WHY?, women get paid equally for the same job when that job is calculated on an hours worked basis – yet why do they claim to be paid less than men. Sure women are paid less than men throughout their career if they take time off for raising kids. Hell, if you calculated my career earnings vs my wife’s over our working lives you could conclude i must have been discriminated against (despite taking 7 years out of the work force with no benefits). Females are 95% sure to be the teachers of our kids, by default over the last 10-15 years the education system has moved significantly left and socialist (which most women are), everyone’s a winner, exams are not fair there has to be a group discussion, etc etc. In a lot of ways the maori movement appears to have mimicked the feminist movement (both based on Marxism) to great success and as a result i see great unfairness in current NZ policies giving extra privileges to a group of NZ’ers who as a result of a small amount of maori blood believe they are entitled to more than a NZ’er that lacks that small drop. If you can understand these views then i would gladly count you as a friend unsoluble.

          • unsol

            You make a number of good points, many of which I have observed also.

            I agree re women’s pay – I think the claim to inequality is a myth. In my experience & that of my women friends is credit is always given where it is due. In fact most of us earned a lot more than a husbands for quite a long time before having children.

            In terms of sentencing, I agree here too – take the women who killed lilybing. They got 7 years for what was tantamount to torture beyond comprehension. Guaranteed a man would have been sentenced more (of course must be noted that children seem to have always held less value than dogs when it comes to the law).

            Interesting you bring up the poor representation of men in the teaching profession – this is part of the reason why I object to broad statements such as gay men are pedophiles. I don’t like generalisations & given how difficult it is for men to enter the teaching profession (due to either public perception or their worry about public perception), I like to dispel any myths that I see having far wider consequences that what perhaps the respondent may see.

            Another issue of inequality for men is of cause custody vs child support. It is great to see that some of this is being amended under the current child support reforms. While fathers no longer living at home may need incentives to & should provide for their own children, creating a noose around their neck that is unreasonable & unfair just creates resentment which of course does nothing for the child.

            And I like your comparison between the feminist movement & Maori. I have wondered the same – incidentally where tertiary education is concerned.

            So for me whether it is men, women, Maori or LGBT I believe in equal rights not special rights. Where Maori in particular are concerned I feel they are demanding & sometimes getting both yet have little to show for it (poor numeracy & literacy, higher representation in all crimes, higher representation in the welfare system etc).

          • BJ

            Welfare?

          • unsol

            Hmmm….I did put a verb in my sentence! :p

            What about you – you mentioned 18 hour days..farming or perhaps a shop (dairies put in long hours)?

            Interestingly I saw an article the other day that the at-home Mum of small children (so not school aged obviously especially given the mum time wasted on here of late!) put in 14 hour days. No wonder I felt tired. Goodness knows you felt with 5…hope they were well spaced out!

          • BJ

            Lucky I do cryptic.

            Would love to tell you but naming the niche industry would be a dead give away and not a smart business move – so,sorry, no can do.

            Well spaced out? – that would be an understatement.

    • kohibruce

      Just look at Sri Lanka to see what happened when Sinhalese was made the official administrative language (instead of English) and the Tamil speaking population decided that a civil war was needed to restore their ability to join the civil service.

      • spollyike

        Like looking into a crystal ball, that may quite possibly be our future. Either that or Zimbabwe? Sharples has a Mugabe look in his eye don’t you think?

        • kohibruce

          And a leader for life wish in his heart.

  • tarkwin

    Try reading Bob Jones book – it’s hilarious and frighteningly prophetic.

    • BJ

      Bob Jones really is a wise old man.

      • tarkwin

        Bob’s book had a professor of panelbeating, I wouldn’t be surprised if one popped up here.

    • WayneO

      That book was fantastic.

  • unsol

    For me this kind of post is achieves nothing – for a start, given that MCDs is known for employing youth I very much doubt they will start demanding a tertiary qualification any time soon.

    Second it does nothing but try to pit academics against those who are not – whether by choice or whether because, despite being great thinkers, were unable to get the words on paper….keeping in mind of course that many degrees are not academic per se, they are practical & lead onto professions that many of us with rather stick nails in our hands than do (for me that means teaching, nursing, medicine….anything to do with bones, blood & guts really).

    Leaving school to go to university, do an apprenticeship or start work all have their pros & cons. The main thing is that the child’s parents know their strengths & weaknesses, give them the time, information & support to work things out for themselves & encourage them accordingly.

    • spollyike

      Good point about parents knowing a teenager’s strengths and weaknesses.

  • unsol

    I will also add that I wonder if this ad is part of a graduate program? The fact that it mentions graduates will have an opportunity to work their way up the ladder suggests this might be the case.

    If so it is a brilliant way to go as many of course claim that those at the top have no idea what it was like to work at the bottom.

    Many companies (including my husband’s) in NZ do the exact same thing – they advertise for graduates only & bond them for 1-2 years with a guarantee to move up the ranks.

    • LabTested

      It does not say (as you suggest) “graduates will have an opportunity to work their way up the ladder”. What it actualy says is “advancement opportunites within!”
      This advancement opportunity is listed well after having a free uniform, so hardly a graduate program.
      Also, note the ad says that this is an indepent franchise. Not part of a group

      • unsol

        Yes I may have been too generous, but it is all speculation isnt it?

        Especially given McDonalds have now said that they

        “don’t expect cashiers to have a college education and they blamed a employment website for the misunderstanding.

        “There has been some misinformation reported by an independent job site with no relationship to the Winchendon, Massachusetts McDonald’s. The original job posting, which could be accessed through McState.com, did not require a bachelor’s degree. We are working diligently to have the misinformation removed from the site but to date the website has been unresponsive to our requests,”

        (Joe and Lori Ruscito, owners of the Winchendon, Mass., restaurant)

  • thor42

    Melanie Phillips foresaw this kind of thing happening in her excellent book “All Must Have Prizes”. It is about the dumbing-down of the British education system but it also applies here. Year after year, I have seen articles in the paper where university staff say that the students there can barely put a coherent sentence together. This is the result of a system in which no-one must be allowed to fail.

  • anonymouse
    • spollyike

      right that’s sorted then, back to work.

  • unsol

    Hmmmm

    Update: the MCDs in question has stated they “don’t expect cashiers to have a college education” and they blamed a employment website for the misunderstanding”

    “There has been some misinformation reported by an independent job site with no relationship to the Winchendon, Massachusetts McDonald’s. The original job posting, which could be accessed through McState.com, did not require a bachelor’s degree. We are working diligently to have the misinformation removed from the site but to date the website has been unresponsive to our requests,” (Joe and Lori Ruscito, owners of the Winchendon, Mass., restaurant).

    My guess is that, with such skills in terms of reading things carefully & checking the fine print so severely lacking, the person from the employment agency probably didn’t have a degree….

  • tarkwin

    The real problem is that the education sector has become so huge and bloated, aide by low interest student loans. Northland polytech is growing like topsy and must be one of the biggest employers up here. Just the other day they were celebrating a new course in scaffolding – you used to pick up this on the job. You had unit standards to meet and your boss had to sign them off. No student loan no empire building. I see education in this country as a giant pyramid scheme that must keep growing regardless of the cost and the low value of the qualification.

    • spollyike

      Yes i agree about the pyramid scheme. I could be a good idea if somehow degrees were only allowed to be offered based on requests made from the various industries. Companies/industry organisations, would need to submit an application requesting X amount of new graduates to fill a forecast need in 3-4 years time. This would do away with the current situation where uni’s simply offer whatever degree thay can make sound attractive to lure the unwary and uncertain teenager in and commit them to a certain amount of debt. There is a feeling of a certain type of fraud i get from some of the degrees that are offered these days.

  • Blair Mulholland

    This is not really noteworthy. McDonalds is a franchise. The franchise owner could demand a doctorate for cashiers if they wanted.
    Also it’s in the People’s Republic of Massachussetts, a place with one of the highest percentage of tertiary graduates in the world. So it almost makes sense in that context.

    • island time

      MCD’s also has its own university – maybe it is trying to get more students?

  • Mr_Blobby

    It just makes it easier for the great unwashed to sit at home on a benefit.

    My degree in hip hop dancing is not acceptable to employers.

    In the US the benefit isn’t from cradle to grave, as it is here.

  • Hazards001

    They can come get a job with me. People with Uni qualifications last about 5mins when handed a shovel a wet hole and a pair of gumboots.
    At the end of the day no one gets min wage anyway as just to get them to start the rate is around 17 bucks if you’re young and fit and if they last for more than the 3 month trial period they’ll get another bump up as they’re a keeper.

    Of course there are certain requirements to getting a shovel hands job. Their pants must be over their hips. Shoes tied up, cap facing forward and the ability to comprehend the meaning of STOP instantly.
    Hell I’ll even fill their time sheet out for them if I can get that much!(for a little while…amazing how a few bucks in the bank can teach you the importance of being able to read write and do basic math)

    You’d be gobsmacked how hard it is to find people that fill the above criteria.

    • Travis Poulson

      No, I believe you. Not even surprised in the slightest. The work ethic that I got from being a rural lad is vastly different to what I discovered when I moved to the city.

      • Hazards001

        Yeah…well I’m an ex country boy too. I’m also an ex farmer..it’s actually my trade…my parents were not. Forestry…Catlins.
        We have created a society of entitled..not just todays kids but the last lot as well..and some of my own generation..those that voted for WFF as an example.

        Fucking shame really…there’s some bloody good kids out their that have plenty of moxy but it’s just giving them that first push. Not everyone can be a goddam Uni graduate and to be honest the richest people I have encountered are not!

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