Labour & Greens $212M Kiwisaver destruction

Labour and the Greens have helped destroy $212M of mum and dad investors wealth overnight with one policy announcement.

Contact

Yesterday before the announcement shares in Contact Energy, which are held by many Kiwisavers and individual investors were trading at $5.75. By the close of trading they had shed 4.5%….$212.6 million in value.

It is economic vandalism like we have never seen before. 

Labour brought in Kiwisaver and now they seem intent on destroying the retirement savings of Kiwi workers.

Russel Norman and David Shearer should really be on bended knees asking for forgiveness.

Any Kiwi who has a Kiwisaver account that had invested in Contact Energy is now $212.6 million poorer for it.

The serious worry though is what will they seek to control next?

 


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  • hazardsareonitsok

    Is it possible to take them to court over this = it is a large amount of money.

    • just what i have been thinking. how can a party own something and then buy their product off themsleves? the bureaucracy is so typical of socialism. its disgusting.

    • blokeintakapuna

      Perhaps a private prosecution of economic treason and orchestrated sedition against NZ Inc. Iwi leaders must be furious that Labour & the Greens have decimated their investments in power generation?

      How will the Maori Party consider a coalition now when their millions invested in power generation assets have been wiped out by these cynical economic saboteurs?

      Cactus Kate… Can you or any other legal type please comment on the possibility of NZ’s private citizens launching a class action suit against Labour $ Greens for their treasonous and cynical attempts that have already wiped hundreds of millions of wealth from our balance sheets? Surely this kind of cynical, treason can be legally stopped somehow? Anyone know where to start? I’m very happy to donate to such a cause…

      • Polish Pride

        Dude just keep quiet, the loss in revenue will be made up for by legalising and taxing Mary Jane :)

  • Phar Lap

    What will they control next?the amount of income earned ,by tax gouging .Just like they did when they promised power charge discounts in the 9 years they were in,yet went on to gouge almost four billion dollars indirect tax off power users,then had the audacity to call it a surplus.

  • Polish Pride

    The question that needs to be asked and answered is The market has failed until this point to deliver lower power prices as it was promised it would Why? The market has also failed to deliver significaantly better and cheaper broad band and mobile calling rates for New Zelanders too. Why? Why is the market failing to deliver the things we are always told that it is the only way to deliver?

    • berenddeboer

      Market? You aren’t aware that in both cases the government is either the market (they own the power companies), or in case of broadband, John Key’s UFB destroyed the capital for any innovation the industry would have come up with.

      Really, you can’t be serious there’s a true market in these cases.

      ma

      • Polish Pride

        John Keys UFB only came about because of a reluctance to invest in infrastructure from the incumbant Telecommunications companies over many many years.
        As for the Govt owning the power companies, so what.
        Are they Companies? – check
        Do the have shareholders? – check The govt is the shareholder.
        Do they have a CEO? – check
        Do they have a Board of directors? – check
        Are there people working for these companies? – check
        Are there customers – check?
        do these customers have the choice of which power provider they want to use – check?
        So regardless of the fact that the shareholder is the govt you have everything required for a market and that is exactly what you have.
        What is the goal of a company? to maximise the return for its shareholders. Well one could argue thats happening.
        The only thing that isn’t happening is lower power prices. The market has failed to deliver.

        • berenddeboer

          And why were these companies reluctant to invest in the UFB? We now know why. The uptake isn’t there. The whole UFB has been a disaster. And if the uptake would be there, we wouldn’t have the overseas cables. And when the cables will finally be laid, 99% of kiwis use a different technology than fibre cable to access their internet.

          Spectacular own goal.

          On SOE, I’m really sorry, I only respond when someone actually brings some arguments instead of sheer stupidity. They got a building! Check. They got a treasurer! Check. North Korea is a capitalist paradise!
          Check.

          • Polish Pride

            Thats right the uptake isn’t there. The market is interested in short term profits not long term investment unless the returns warrant it. The problem is that that simply doesn’t work for key services such as power and telecommunications infrastructure.

          • mike

            Uptake isn’t there because there is a bottleneck… UFB doesn’t fix the fact there is only one real cable connecting us with the rest of the world, that’s where the slow down is.

            Fix that and UFB will be picked up real fast.

          • Polish Pride

            Oh I see so its only a market if it meets the pure capitalist version of one and if there’s even the slightest hint of regulation then that will be why something failed. It Could never be the market No not in capitalist utopia.

            I love it when idiots can’t formulate an argument in response and resort to this…..
            “I only respond when someone actually brings some arguments instead of sheer stupidity.”

        • James

          UFB is a dog – the reason nobody invested in it is because they knew that, at the moment, there isn’t anybody really willing to take it up – even with massive state subsidies.

          And why would you? 4G has now been launched and 5G is on the drawing boards.

          • Polish Pride

            Those arguments will always be there.

        • mike

          And soon they will only be 51% Government owned

          • Polish Pride

            So once they are 51% govt owned are you expecting power prices to stay the same, become lower or rise?

          • mike

            I expect competition to increase, and therefore the market to dictate real price… not a false economy based on a Government agency telling the market what something is worth. So yes I do expect the prices to come down, or at the very least the rate of growth drop significantly.

    • hazardsareonitsok

      Lets see what happens to prices after the float.

    • James

      What Market? The Government owns most of the power firms so there isn’t real competition and no real market.
      And tell me, how long did it take you to get connected to the phone lines last time you moved house? 6 months? The reason mobile phone calls are expensive here is because there is a hell of a lot of not very populated country in New Zealand. Building a network therefore costs large amounts of money to get the required geographical coverage – but the number of users is low. Therefore the charge per user needs to be higher than somewhere that is more densely populated. Broadband is easy to explain along similar lines – we are a long way from anywhere, and there aren’t many of us. If there was major price gouging going on then the market would have spotted it and further connectors would have been built – the fact that they haven’t been (even after trying and investigation) tells us that there aren’t the super-profits being made that the left believes that there are.

      • Polish Pride

        James see the response to berendeboer below re govt being the owner.
        It is possible for something to be govt owned and not full of bueracracy if it is set up to be independant such as the power companies and pharmac.
        The other reasons you have given re the geographical challenges that come with New Zealand are good and valid points but as has been shown they are a major disincentive for companies to invest in ongoing infrastructure and are not going to go away even with full privatisation of the power companies. You have however estaablished a key reason as to why the market hasn’t delivered lower power prices. You have also unfortunately established that in such an environment the market is unlikely to ever deliver.

        • Justsayn

          If they are to be sold, and they are, surely you want to get the best price even if were not in favour of the sales. This policy is directed at ensuring we don’t. That harms us all and is irresponsible.

        • James

          I’m sorry but you have obviously not read my post if you believe that it establishes why a market is unlikely to deliver. The market will deliver; in the case of telecommunications it has delivered to the best of its ability; in this case there are some areas such as price where it will, necessarily, be higher than international comparators. But where it has delivered is service; I can walk into pretty much any small town, pick up a phone and start using it immediately – rather than have to wait 6 months for somebody from the State to decide to pop over and hook me up to a party line.

          And geography isn’t a disincentive to invest; again you only need to look at telecoms to see this. What it means is that you don’t want to take as much risk, and that you require higher prices from the limited number of customers to make the same returns. But it isn’t a disincentive, it is just that you don’t want to gamble with your shareholders’ money to the same extent.
          And just because there are a number of companies owned by the same people and, supposedly, competing with one another doesn’t mean there is competition. Because there is a single shareholder there is a single strategic impetus and requirement from that shareholder. Multiple shareholders mean that the boards are truly independent of one another. A single shareholder can fix the market by saying to all of the power companies that it requires its dividend income to increase by 10% each year – regardless of how much competition there is this will increase prices. Having multiple shareholders, different between companies, means that if company A’s shareholders requires dividends to go up 10% each year then company A can’t push all of this onto its customers in the worry that they will go elsewhere.

          • Polish Pride

            Yeah sure its has delivered in service I’ll give you that. But It hasn’t delivered on price and isn’t likely to. If it was you would need to make some significant changes to the model and then you would still be have to sit back and hope the market delivered. If it didn’t you’d be back to the drawing board for another go. How high will power prices be before you get it right. The market is not a gaurantee of low prices. especially in a market where there is a low level of consumer engagement or a low level of choice.
            examples: on choice a price concious consumer can go to the supermarket and will do so regularly and select the lowest priced product from 10 different brands. They are all there in front of them its easy to see and they just have to reach out and grab the one they want. There are only two major players in New Zealand but low prices are therfe because of the high level of choice and the high level of customer interaction. Hell they have buyers price checking the competitors weekly to ensure they are remaining competitive.
            On interaction you can usse the same example. How often does a person go to the supermarket, a couple of times per week, once per week once per fortnight. There is a high level of interaction and the market works well.
            Even marketing plays a huge part and marketing iss always more powerful and effective if you play to the senses.
            The market works very well in these areas.
            Power compaanies however are not like this. It is very difficult to market power to the senses to a level that will cause the consumer to get up and switch power companies.
            There is a low level of interation. You use your lights, your appliances etc. Your interaction is with those things. Unless you are on the bones of your arse your effective interation level with power is almost non existent. What I mean by this is that when you turn on the lights you don’t conciously think I am going to use power do you, of course not you just flip the switch and the light is on.
            As a consumer you just get your powerbill and you pay it. 99% of will not go and compare what the rates are with other companies eaach and everytime they get their powerbill and then on top of that switch if they find a cheaper one each and every month. They might do a comparison when they sign up and that is about it.
            Because of this the customer base of a power company is very stable. The just need to buy thye power, supply it, bill the customer and receive the payment. They are never in a position of losing customers haand over fist that means they constantly need to keep an eye on pricing in order to remain competitive and to stay in business. Customers just aren’t that interested in switching regularly enough. It is this reason that the market is unlikely to deliver lower prices. It simply doesn’t have a strong driver to. It is not doing anything that is not going to maaximise profits to its shareholders.

          • James

            If somebody were significantly cheaper then people would change. But you need a market to make sure that you get down to those lower prices. And as for not changing, I’ve lived in New Zealand for 5 years now in this stretch and changed my electricity company 3 times and my bank twice. It isn’t hard to do; but yes, some people will be too lazy to do so – but that isn’t a reason to rip what we have out – it is simply that they don’t yet see the value in doing so. Putting more competition in may provide them the value opportunities for their effort.

          • Polish Pride

            And you are probably the exception to the rule unfortunately. Many like yourself would prefer govt just got out of the way and let the market do its thing unhindered and that is a valid school of thought that works logically. Unfortunately it is not always going to deliver the results as fast as some need or want it to and when that happens people are going to offer other alternatives. Some of those alternatives are always going to be more more radical than a percentage of the population would like them to be. As for what it has done to the shareprices that is unfortunate if you have invested in these companies but it is not really any different from someone owning shares in say Telecom and the government or commerce commision coming along and changing the playing field because they don’t feel that a particular set of outcomes they are wanting is being met by the industry. Govts do this from time to time. It is part of the nature of the system we have.

          • Polish Pride

            Actually what I have stated above as to why the market will not fix the high pricing problem holds true. I do need to make a slight correction though. The Market will fix the problem if Off the grid equipment, (inverters, solar panels, batterys etc. keep dropping in price and the cost of electricity keeps rising. Once it becomes more and more economically viable to switch and people do. It will eventually hit power companies in the bottom line and then but only then will it force them to reduce prices, But how long do you want to wait.
            Until then the customer apathy will never overcome the driver to deliver higher and higher profits to shareholders.

    • Justsayn

      To this point we have not had a market, we have had successive Governments (but mostly Labour) saying we want X return or else. LabGre want that to continue in another form.

    • rockape

      Failed market,realy <well failed as much as North Korea or the former ussr? Havnt seen signs of that. Mind you excessive borrowing by governments and local authorities and individuals seem to have a lot to answer for but not the free market in sale of goods.

      • Polish Pride

        might have been aneffective argument if only I could read it….
        We actually need to do this as a country but not for lower power prices.

    • jonti

      “The market has also failed to deliver significaantly better and cheaper broad band and mobile calling rates for New Zelanders too”
      i call bullshit on that, what world do you live in ?

  • Wow, now ya getting desperate. So what happened on the 1/4? Did the company fall over? Did kiwi saver fall over? This just shows us how over priced this industry is b/c the consumers are just slaves who pay anything for power since they are powerless (lol, pun)

    • On the 1st of April the market also was reacting to Labour policy you numbskull, was waiting for one fool to come along and say that.

      • Oh Ok…questions are bad here, i get that….can u post a years tend then please. Wow name calling. Isn’t there a law on this soon? Lol

        But my other question… Did the company fall over on the 1/4?

        • Saccharomyces

          Look up the year trend or even longer yourself….

          http://lmgtfy.com/?q=contact+energy+share+price

        • Dave

          Damian, please go think about this. If you are buying a house and they announce the front of the section is to be taken away in a year for new Power Pylons, would you buy it for the same price you offered, or would you offer LESS knowing some “Value” would be taken away in a year??? This is effectively what Labour-Greens have done, they have stated, if we get into power, we will cut the value out of your business. Naturally, the investors who FUND the power companies to get a return on their investment, have said, we are not happy, the markets have reacted, and the result is obvious. I doubt there is anyone in Labour-Green who has a financial / Economic brain cell.

          Also think, if you have any money in a KIWISAVER Account, they are likely to be investors in Power Companies, and your funds are now worth LESS as a result of Labour-Greens announcement.

          This policy is so strategically dumb, its getting close to Greece, i just hope they have planned the Austerity measures NZ will need 5 years down the track if Labour ever get back into power.

          Please really think about that before replying Damian.

          • Polish Pride

            Dave – Just a little something for you to ponder have you considered where #D printing will be in 20- 30 years time and what the effect on economies will be when people all own one and can simply download a programme and print whatever they want. When economies collapse as a result It might be a good thing to have key infrastructure NOT privately owned and in a state of disrepair.

          • Dave

            I dont necessarily disagree with you PP, but think again, 30 years ago, the Service station we ran traded mostly in cash, and as cards became more common, under the “We accept these Credit Cards” sign, a cheeky team member put up another sign, We even accept cash Still !!

            So, PP, do you really think in 20 – 30 years we will still be using cash, I hardly carry the stuff nowadays, $20 to $50 at the most, everything else is an electronic transaction.

            As to printing drugs, hmmm doubtful, and they would have a bit of a plastic taste!!

          • Polish Pride

            JUst keep watching this space :)

  • rockape

    This policy is an act of incredible stupidity.
    SHORT TERM;
    It will drive down all the value of power companies, these are mostl owned by the Government that is us. IIt will drive away many small investors, not the big ones who think longer term.They will buy cheap and when Labour fail to get elected reap rich rewards at the expense of mums and dads who would have bought.The argument for not selling has just gone. Last week it was all about the dividends to the Government, now they have stated no dividends so will they be campaigning for the sale and surely sale of 100% as they will not benefit from retaining the assets.
    Longer term Labour has destroyed the future of the investment market in NZ, whats next Petrol? I spend 3 times more on petrol than I do on electricity and worry about its price too. By interfering in this way and being so anti profit and having shown they will do something about it. They have just saboutaged very Kiwisaver account and our pensions tied up in the Cullen fund.Who will invest in companies now when propery becomes so attractive.
    I think this is a Green dagger between Labours shoulders and Labour are just too dumb to see it. Give voters a few weeks to realise the effects of this short term vandalism and I think there will be a backlash that will finish Labour and leave the Greens in a stronger position.
    God Defend Newzealand

  • Kiwikea

    I’m sure the sun will still rise the next day if this policy is implemented too.

    • James

      Yes; but in 20 years time that same sun will be pretty much the only thing we can rely on energy-wise after investment by power companies has been totally shut down.

      • But I am told that power companies are state owned so when the private sector are too lazy or scared the people will do it… So don’t stress, we socialists have ur back :-)

        • rangitoto

          You mean middle income tax payers will be ripped off to try and sort things out when the masses get pissed off with rolling power cuts in the winter. This stuff was tried before

          • Polish Pride

            So identify the reason for and eliminate the power cuts. That will be a damn sight easier thaan tinkering with the market to try and get a result that it simply can’t deliver for a number of different reasons.

        • Justsayn

          Just take a step away because last time socialist had my back my arse hurt from having my money ripped through it to pay for more and more public servants like you.

      • Polish Pride

        If your that concerned about it go off the grid.

        • James

          Yeah, ‘cos that is an efficient use of my money, the world’s resources and creation of energy.
          I’m starting to think that you are just trolling.

          • Polish Pride

            Have you looked at the figures and the returns James vs paying for your power? I’d suggest you go and do that before insinuating I’m trolling. You’ll get a far better ROI than putting it in the bank.

          • James

            Only after shafting the rest of NZ for subsidies; and I don’t like stealing from my neighbours.

          • Polish Pride

            So don’t take a subsidy. Subsidy or no subsidy you’ll still get a better return.

          • Polish Pride

            So don’t take the subsidy the returns are still worth it in the long run. Find out the cost and run the numbers. you’ll see what I mean.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Just not true.
            To power an average household off grid.
            Approx. $50 000 in batteries, generation (solar, wind and diesel back up), control systems and installation.
            Quite apart from RMA and building consents (if approved).
            Then there is maintenance costs, up keep, replacing bearings, batteries, breakdowns etc
            Cost per year could be as high as a couple of thousand dollars averaged over a 10 year life span.
            So saving say $3600 per year, minus $2000 maintenance is $1600 per year…ie over 30 years to pay for itself!!!!

  • Jimmie

    This is a post I wrote at the Strandard – a little long I know but a policy like this needs some clear thinking about the long term consequences and perhaps this policy is motivation for the centre and right to ensure that the nutty left are kept in the position that they belong – Left Right Out.

    So we have a situation where Labour & the Greens (for several years now) have been trying to convince the voters that the partial sell off of assets is a bad idea primarily due to the loss of dividend income to the government.

    Now we have a policy where Labour & the Greens have announced a policy where they will basically force the electricity industry to operate at pre determined levels of profit (decided by paper pushers) and announce that they are prepared to forego dividend payments and taxation revenue as a result.

    So looking at it from a tax payer point of view we have the following alternatives:

    National:

    Partial sale of power companies = Capital released to the government to be used for alternative investment. Dividend revenues cut in half however if the MOM delivers further efficiencies the dividend payments may increase in the future. Taxation levels will not be affected – perhaps they may increase due to a higher level of operating profit.

    Labour/Green:

    Enforced regulation/depression of power pricing/generation capacity = Capital is not released to the government, it is in fact lost due to a permanent devaluing of the power companies capital worth.

    Dividend revenues will be foregone with no possibility of future increases or return.

    Taxation revenues will be foregone due to lower operating surpluses by the power companies.

    How is this good for the taxpayer??

    Sure by adding another layer of bureaucrats and government department may well result in lower short term power prices for consumers but how long will this last? Will we get price drops prior to elections and increases afterwards?

    If the regulated power prices are held low for political reasons surely this will increase demand (heck why use less power when it is so cheap) This will result in an outstripping of capacity thus requiring more generation to be built.

    Will the Greens allow more hydro stations or coal stations to be built? I doubt it.

    So will we get in a situation where quotas will be introduced to limit power usage? Throw in financial penalties for over use of power and you have a price increase by another name.

    Also you may enter the murky world of inequities – why should rick pricks get cheap power at the same price as Bob the bene? Do we go down the road of progressive power pricing based on the taxation status of the account owner?

    I tell you this policy has not be thought through – Lab/Green have gone for the nirvana of enforced regulation of pricing – how different is this from the mess Moldoon had with price/wage freezes?

    If you want lower long term power prices then free up the RMA process so that additional future generation can be built without a 10 year red tape process to go through – a much simpler method but it ain’t gonna happen with Red + green….

    • Dave

      Has your post been taken down by the moderators yet. Cant have anything that is negative over there ??

  • richard.b

    I have a question and I hope someone can point me in the right direction.

    I would like to start a petition to request a CIR and need some advice on where to start.

    My petition is:

    “We, the undersigned, do not agree with the policy of Labour and The Greens to nationalise the power supply. If they form a government after the next election they have no mandate from the people to carry out such corporate vandalism.”

    A precedent has been set that this can be funded by any political party so I hope National jump on board.
    Thank you.
    Richard

    • Justsayn

      For a while I was wondering why anyone would want to start a petition to request a Commissioner of Inland Revenue!! I get it now.

    • Polish Pride

      Do you not understand that we live under a model that is effectively an elected dictatorship model and even if you do a referendum it is not binding and the govt is free to ignore it and do as they please. They will even say (now that a precedent for it has been set) ‘There was a referendum it was called an election. But go for gold.

  • rockape

    Labour waant their policy on the sale docoment. I have a better idea, a warning for all investors in Kiwisaver or any other investment. IF YOU GET A LABOUR GOVERNMENT THEY WILL TAX YOUR HOUSE AND RUIN YOUR FUTURE.

    • Polish Pride

      Really!?! You had better tell all the Aussies and every other country in the OECD that their govts are ruining their future caause of CGT. This is one area where the market will simply adjust.

      • rockape

        Yep upwards and make homes especially to rent even less affordable . CGT is just one of their costly plans. They have already cost NX about $300 million on MRP shares and thats our money. The investors can now buy cheap at our expense.

  • Saccharomyces
  • Patrick

    Apparently this is all part of Wee Wussels intelligent Green industries – they are developing an electricity meter that can recognise whether or not you have voted Labour/Green. If you have not then you will pay more for your electricity. Prior to elections if you are a Labour/Green voter your charges will drop – it is all kind of reminiscent of an African dictatorship, criminal amnesties etc.

    • Polish Pride

      So just a little overreation then Patrick

      • Patrick

        Really? A trip back to 1950’s Soviet Union economic policies doesn’t concern you?

        • Polish Pride

          I think you have misunderstood what they are going to do. completely or are you saying Pharmac is Soviet Union Economic policy?

          • mike

            So what other areas of strategic importance will they seek control over next?

          • Polish Pride

            Lets see secured rail, securing power, Health secured, Education secured, Food supply?

          • Patrick

            Quite sure they will have large dollops of cash to spend on media organisations – controlling the message in the media is the first thing the commies look to do. Perhaps there is hope for the NZ Herald – state owned newspaper.

          • Patrick

            Pharmac is not a valid comparison on any level. If you want to use them as an example the scenario would be a Government legislating the price that the pharmaceutical companies are allowed to sell their product. Try that & the likes of SmithKlineGlaxo will show you two fingers. In the Pharmac case you have a consumer group lobbying a supplier for the best price as per the consumer group Powershop in NZ. In Australia there are similar groups lobbying the Health Insurers for cheaper insurance for their members – it is called the market & that is how it works. Unfortunately Labour are proposing to take us back to Muldoonism.

          • Polish Pride

            That is NOT what they are doing at all as I said you have misunderstood the policy.

          • Patrick

            The policy is to drive down & control the price of power at the expense of the shareholders in those power companies, at the expense of future investment in the electricity generating sector.

            The real policy is to win Government at all costs, bribe the voters with whatever it takes, much the same as Labour did with free student loans & working for families welfare. The real policy also is to spike the upcoming state owned assets sell off at all costs, no matter what it takes. Labour are so bereft of policy that they would bend over & take it up the jacksy from the Greens – adopting the Greens communist manifesto without even flinching. Even the previously “free market” orientated Labour MPs like Shane Jones haven’t even blinked their conversion has been so fast. Funny what a sniff of power does to a person isn’t it.

  • johnbronkhorst

    Other policies…….Compulsory kiwi saver, CGT on share sales…….ie TAXING your retirement earnings!!!!

    • Polish Pride

      What like every other country in the OECD does already and we don’t!!??!! No wonder we’re in the shit.

      • johnbronkhorst

        I knew I would get a bite, from an idiot like you, if I left the hook in the water long enough!!
        1. No not all OECD countries (about 60% have one) have a CGT.
        2. As a rule, countries like ours, without a CGT are doing MUCH better in this economic climate than those that have one. (eg Europeans and Americans)

        • Polish Pride

          I must have missed us overtaking Australia last week JB and how many times have I had to tell you about insulting people. It just shows a distinct lack of intelligence. I don’t want to have to go baack to making you look like a fool whenever you do this I have better things to do with my time.
          CGT hasn’t affected the housing markets in those countries JB.

          • johnbronkhorst

            So you can name one, big fucking deal….hows about France Spain UK Ireland Portugal etc etc etc
            As for the house market effects try renting in those countries IDIOT!!!
            Read Alan Reynolds report to the ASX and you will see that there is NOTHING good about a CGT.
            It is you who are the unresearched idiot here!!!

          • johnbronkhorst

            Besides Australia (outside of MINING) is actually doing MUCH worse than us!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Polish Pride

            We can always move to a Resource Based Economy John, then we won’t have these wee problems.
            Luckily for Australia they have mining then hence they are doing better than us.
            Interesting that the biggest champion of the Capitalist system is doing so poorly too don’t you think or are you blaming the woes of the US economy on CGT.

          • johnbronkhorst

            No Obama’s ridiculous TAX spend and print money policies!!!! Just like labour and the greens really!!!

          • Polish Pride

            Of course spending trillions on war under bush had nothing to do with it.

          • johnbronkhorst

            IDIOT, Bush increased USA’s debt from $4 trillion to $8 Trillion after Twin towers.(suppose you are suggesting he should have done nothing, like Clinton) in 8 years.
            Obama increase the USA’s debt from $8 trillion to nearly $16 Trillion in jus over 4 years. ie $2 TRILLION per year, 4 times the rate of Bush So the BILLIONS spent on war by Bush are a drop in the ocean compared to the mess Obama is making!!!

          • johnbronkhorst

            Really, bush increase debt By $4trillion in 8 years, Obama $8 trillion in 4 years….ie 4 times the rate. Obama also promised to halve the deficit in his first term (using QE and bail outs) he actually DOUBLED it!!!

          • Polish Pride

            Well Luckily for them they have mining so they are doing better than us .

          • Polish Pride

            Oh so the problems in those countries are all because of CGT. Well there you have it. You learn something new everday don’t you. Quick John call their consulates and let them know their problems will disappear once the get rid of CGT. You’ll probably get a knighthood prested to you by John Key himself. What a proud moment that will be for you John. You can almost hear the applause.

          • Polish Pride

            Oh I see John so its CGT thats causing all the problems for those countries. Well I never. I guess you learn something new everyday eh john? Quick call their consulates and tell them. They’ll be so pleased to know all they need to do to fix their problems is get rid of CGT. You’ll probably even be up for a knighthood after this John. It’ll be presented by your hero JK himself, you can almost hear the applause. Ahhhhhhh its just luvly innit.

          • johnbronkhorst

            If you have better things to do with your time …why did you reply in the first place??? As for “,,,many times have I had to tell you about insulting people”….Just 2 words for you …Condiscending arsehole.

          • Polish Pride

            Only toward those that can’t seem to formulate an argument without insulting others John.

          • Polish Pride

            Only to those who haven’t yet learned to communicate without resorting to insults John. You keep it up though I’ll always make time for you when you do. It’s a little special time I set aside. I like to call it simply time for John.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Take away the mining in Aussie and they are doing WORSE than us…Then look at spain, france, uk , Ireland etc etc etc

          • Polish Pride

            The level of censorship on this site is the highest I have ever seen it what gives?

          • Polish Pride

            In case you haven’t realised it John what you are watching is your beloved Capitalism in its last and final stages……before implosion.

  • WayneO

    Has David Shearer stated how many jobs he expects to be lost due to this policy?

    • Justsayn

      Negative 5000 (ie the policy is going to create 5000 new jobs). Great news eh!

      • James

        Will be interesting to see what the “net” number is as 5,000 can only be a gross number of jobs created.

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