Valid Questions David Shearer and Russel Norman need to answer

Colin Espiner asked these questions yesterday. David Shearer and Russel Norman need to come clean on the answers.

There are so many holes in this policy I don’t know where to start. How much is a “fair price” for power, and who decides? The Government? How does Labour decide that a 300KW block will save households $300? And who pays for this, given that nothing in this world is free?

How does giving away electricity square with Labour’s stated plans to be more energy-efficient? Or to reduce greenhouse gases?

The Greens want to add “progressive pricing” – charging poor people less for their power – to the mix. Will Labour agree to this? How would that work? Is it fair? What about moderately well-off people who live in cold climates?

Labour claims its policy would create 5000 jobs. Seriously? How?

Will Labour compensate private industry for having millions written off their balance sheets? 

Espiner wonders about the desperation of third world voodoo economic solutions:

I’m tempted to see this as a last-ditch attempt to derail National’s plans to part-sell its electricity assets, but if that’s the case it’s going to seriously annoy a lot of investors who were poised to put funds into Mighty River Power.

It’s extremely rare that I agree completely with Economic Development Minister Steven Joyce, but his comment today that the plan was “a return to the 1970s-style monopoly provision of electricity…Only North Korea and Venezuela did not think such ideas are nuts” is pretty much spot on.

I agree with Joyce that Labour is virtually sabotaging the economy.

It is, in my view, also an indication that Labour does not believe it has any hope of winning the next election. In my experience, only political parties that know they have no realistic hope of winning an election propose things they know they will never have to try to implement.

Labour’s jumped the shark, Joyce reckons. It’s hard to disagree.

 


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  • johnbronkhorst

    “I’m tempted to see this as a last-ditch attempt to derail National’s plans to part-sell its electricity …”
    Absolutely…as they (norman and shearer) are demanding the govt. put this in the company prospectus…so as to scare away investors!!!

  • Whafe

    I am stunned beyond belief this was launched yesterday by the Labour & the Greens.

    This is truly the most draconian piece of BS policy put forward in many many years.

    Like a good many of us, it is pretty much aiming to disrupt an already fragile economy, along with sabotaging it…

    If this doesn’t make these pinko media try hards get off their butts and see this for what it is, then we are doomed… Be time to get on out of here.

  • Macca

    These are all very valid questions that should also be asked by our media!!!!! All the MSM have done so far is gloss over the policy and crow about how everyone will be paying less for their power bills. All we ask is for some neutrality!

    • CommonSense404

      And when you pay less for something, the seller also receives less. Currently most of the ‘seller’ is the govt by way of its stake in the electricity generators. So this is nothing but a straight up subsidy that we end up paying for anyway. It is a money go round and just means the govt will need to tax or borrow more to fund the hole.

      • It is like a tax cut that makes these companies more accountable. Great

        • Justsayn

          Be honest – it is a tax cut designed to undermine the float price. If you want to offer a tax cut just do it.

          • It is a great plan. The left is smashing national. This is Key’s world and he is getting smashed. Oh, there are many ways to cut costs other than tax. Again, private sector is different than public

          • Justsayn

            Smashing US, your action are unlikely to impact on the next election (except you might get a few of your regulars back from NZ First but so what). In the meantime you are adversely impacting ALL of us by undermining the float price.

            Can you not admit that this is simply a tax cut delivered in a way that will undermine the float price? If you cannot being yourself to voice it honestly, then crawl back Waikato Uni.

          • Waikato uni now? Wow, more stalking. Nice

            As share buyers, why would u care if the govt lost money In selling the shares? Be honest. Anything to drive the price down can only be great for us who buy them. No? Or do u care about the govt too? I get confused. U know u r buying ur own shares? Sony can’t lose or win.

          • Justsayn

            I am not a share buyer.

            Can you not admit that this is a tax cut delivered in a way that will undermine the float price when it could be done in a way that did not have that effect?

          • Justsayn

            You are the one that attacked the credentials of Colin Espiner. If you don’t want people to look at the information you posted online why did you post it?

          • Travis Poulson

            Labour up 0.5 % in the polls, if someone is smashing National it sure as hell aint Labour.

    • unsol

      That’s why we check out WO – if Judith Collins thinks this is a far more credible news source than MSM then that is good enough for me!

  • Does Colin know anything about economic? Does Colin know what auditors do? Can Colin do his own research to answer his own questions? This plan from is a great ideal and the consumer needs state support from these greedy bastards… Even though some of those are the state.

    • In Vino Veritas

      Foaming mouth lunatic alert……

    • So the state needs to protect us from the state? That’s the best definition of socialism I have heard – well done.

      • I noted a oxymoron. Yet I trust the people over any capitalist.

        • onelaw4all

          Capitalism is an economic system for “the people”
          Statism in its many flavours is a system for robots.

          The end.

          • Funny, i think u have that backwards. Go to your companies next board meeting or another companies board and ask if u can vote. U will soon seen the power of tranny and dictatorship. When was the last time did u vote on a bank policy or a change to a bank charge? Did u negotiate? I think not. This is pure slavery

          • BJ

            “Anthem” by Ayn Rand

          • Really? Science fiction? Really? Can I trump that with gattaca?

          • BJ

            Just a thought

          • unsol

            Don’t play BJ – he’s too boring & predictable to waste your intellect on :)

          • U will soon seen the power of tranny

            Cripes. The power of tranny? Do we really have to go there today? We’ve only just got over the marriage equality thing yesterday.

          • Oh ok, I see now… Hugs. Been a tough week? Me too, I had the flu and after 5 days of TV I have woken up. Damn doctor, gave me wrong pills. Dumb socialised health care.

          • Is there any chance of having a serious chat with you, are we just your plaything during a boring morning?

          • unsol

            We’re his play thing – judging by the reaction I would say he is very much a little kitten being played with by a pack of hungry wolves…..and soon the wolves will stop playing….you know how this story ends. We’ve seen in time & time again….Kosh, dotcom…may they RIP :)

          • I am serious. I also wanted to show that I am human, since u all got so angry and agrressive. I am sorry but I can’t read your mind and know all the rules, hates and preconceived ideals. First time I have posted here.

            And as a lefty, I am sick to death of hearing media dripple that has no interllect or insight into the actual issue. Do any left people hang here of is this a ‘individualist’ only place?

          • unsol

            Have a look at the marriage equality debates and that will give you your answer

            You might be better off playing over at Red Alert, the Standard or Bomber’s; I think it is safe to say that as a general rule no one here will ever agree that left wing policies have any validity.

          • Polish Pride

            No, One such as he is needed here.

          • Yes, we have lefties, greens, gays, unionists and even people that think WOBH isn’t conservative or right enough.

            You appear to be on political enemy territory, and as you can see from other replies, your ideas do not get a lot of airtime here.

            But I want you here. There is no point in WOBH being an echo chamber of people that all see it the same way.

            You do need to have a thick skin, and you do have to articulate the WHY. No point stating things are right or wrong without the WHY.

            Imagine yourself in a debate – you need to put up your side of the argument, not just speak as if the truth is obvious. Because to most of the people here, their truth is obvious to them. What is needed are explanations so the discussion can address the finer points.

            I have changed my mind on things because of the discussions on this blog. But that didn’t come about from high level mud slinging. It comes about through getting down to the detail.

            Try to not reply to everything. Ask yourself if it adds any new information to the debate, or is it just a one liner, a quip, a hit-and-run comment?

            If you like DEBATE, this is the right place. If you’re just here to state the obvious and leave glib one-liners, then I don’t think you’ll last.

            People may not respect your politics, but they can end up respecting you. If you can see the difference, then you could enjoy your time here.

          • Polish Pride

            Some of these fellas do get angry and agressive but many of them don’t know shit about shit (lets see who that riles up >:> ). Debate and stick to the topic and you will get engaged by the ones that do know a thing or two. But be prepared to back up what you are saying with evidence, don’t get pulled into name calling and you will do well.

          • Justsayn

            You should try whatever the greens and Shearcut are on.

          • Travis Poulson

            Joke about the power of the tranny at your peril. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W023Jk7xPUs

          • I’m so not clicking that.

          • hazardsareonitsok

            When was the last time you could directly vote on things in parliament? there is so much wrong with what you just said – how does changing the power companies ownership to a single entity give “the people” any more say?

          • When I vote and write to my MP. It is small but it is something.

            A company already is an entity, in fact, they have more rights than people themselves do. A company killed 29 miners yet who went to jail? I could go on but won’t.

          • Polish Pride

            Oh yes you are definitely needed here – you could wake a few people up.

          • Mediaan

            Your poor MP.

        • unsol

          Awww a young idealist ^ !

          “Yet I trust the people over any capitalist.” – that statement is an oxymoron; the people drive capitalism.

          If you don’t like the few getting richer then stop buying their smartphones, computers, signing up to FACEBOOK (young Marky & his billions must really love you!), buying their cool shoes, t-shirts, jeans, hats, sunnies, TVs, video games etc etc.

          Your idealism clashes with your actions young man :)

          • So I am young now? That is a beautiful story. I hope it works out for you. Good luck

            Why do I care about the profits of FB? FB does not power my house, feed me or employ me. Again, no need to fiction writing about me :-)

          • unsol

            Oh dear, left wing stupidity at play here

            You don’t trust capitalists yet continue to feed them in your choices.

            A little ironic to say the least.

            And yes while your syntax & style comes across as very young, I see by the twitter account Petal posted that you are in fact not that young at all.

            So perhaps you need to work on how you phrase things if you don’t want to be seen as immature & silly.

          • Polish Pride

            Unsol the capitalist system is so pervasive all you have are the choices you make. You cannot escape capitalism and lead aany sembalnce of a normal life. Yet as pervasive as it is, it is failing more and more people in more and more areas. It is more accurately corporatism dressed up to look like capitalism.

          • johnbronkhorst

            About age…
            Some one once said…If you are under 25 and are not a socialist….you have no heart.
            If however you are over 25 and are still a socialist…you have no brains!!!!

          • Polish Pride

            If you are over 40 and you still believe the system works then you are a fool.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Really?..Is that apart from…
            Capitalism gave you and me everything we have, use and rely on!!!!
            Electricity
            electric light
            inside sanitation
            roading
            cars
            transport (of ALL kinds)
            Medical advancerments (drugs, operations, etc)
            Housing
            Clothing advancements
            etc etc etc
            Socialist societies developed…NOTHING.
            They copied, stole and BEGGED from capitalist societies for their very survival!!!

          • Polish Pride

            Care to back that up with evidence that the actually came from capitalism John?
            I’ll give you some things that it has given us though
            the GFC
            war for profit
            suppression of cancer cures
            suppression of free energy tech
            Corporate controlled government in the US
            Human trafficking and the sex slave trade
            the drug trade
            child labour
            I not after a Socialist society John I’m after a Society and system that fixes the problems we have. Something no system used thus far including capitalism has been able to achieve.

        • Polish Pride

          I trust the people over pure capitalists and many corporations. I would never define the state as you appear to have used it as the people. I would trust the people over the state.

    • Troy

      Difference between you and Colin is he has both a reputation for research and is able to apply logic to most if not all arguments…. something your post lacks significantly.

      • Not what google says.. My post was questions. But I guess only some are allowed to ask questions?

        • Mediaan

          As already stated, you made a mess of your google search.

    • blokeintakapuna

      When using solvent based paints in enclosed spaces, always ensure adequate ventilation.

      • Really is that it? Abuse is a sign of a weak mind. Come on, that statement is worthless.. Good luck with those communication skills :-)

        • blokeintakapuna

          Ladies and gentleman… It’s troll time!

          If Colin Espiners questions are easily answered… Please enlighten us?

          • Troll time? Lol so anyone who disagrees with u is a troll? Omg that is weak. Come on!

        • Justsayn

          This Labour speaking? Abusive attack seems to be your only political tactic.

          • I don’t know what that means sorry. I am not abusing anyone and I apologise if I have done that

        • unsol

          Random boy you are on fire – good luck….just remember that if you play with fire you are likely to get burned :)

          • Thanks. I appreciate the words. It is a lively place. First time I ever posed here. Love the level of social respect. :-)

    • Whafe

      Does Labour or the Greens know anything economic, auditors????

      Pull your head from your rectum first & foremost

      • Really is that how u debate? Lol, man, they say that a users have weak minds. Good luck with that

        Colin’s weak questions are easily answered and go labour/green for ensuring that the consumers are protected. Since that is an important role of the state.

        • Travis Poulson

          “a users have weak minds”

          “A users” have weak grammar too apparently.

    • I await your call for supermarkets to be state controlled too

      • Supermarkets have their issues too yet their model works better than the power model, yet some products do have issues.

        But hey, if u don’t like someone trying to save you money the. That is your choice. Unsure why u defend fat greedy people over families,

        • Travis Poulson

          Are you that ignorant and easily led that you think they’re trying to save you money and not recover the costs somewhere else? One way or the other it’s going to cost you.

          Good grief. Its the blind leading the idiots.

          • I know that. It is what national has done a few times now, so did u complain when national did it? I bet not. However, power is a high cost for many people, and it is a necessity, and I prefer to pay high cost to my people(state) than to some fat pig in NY. But that is me, I love NZ. Do you?

          • Justsayn

            And therein lies the nub – you don’t want them sold. Well the country voted in an election where that was the main issue. You may remember it, you lost. In fact you took a huge spanking.

            If you “love NZ” how can you tolerate such a destructive attempt to undermine the price we get for our assets? If it is not about that, then why did you not wait until after the floats to release your policy for the next election?

          • Hey, a minor party called the Act party created this current government. I am sorry but that argument has been seen as false. U heard of MMP? Have you seen the opinion polls? I have never voted for a party where I agreed with 100% of their policies. Oh and, labour/green got 2 laws through this week and one defeated National. Love MMP. Gee, bad week for National. They are getting smashed.

            Actually killing the price of the assert is great for those who are going to buy these over valued shares. So, with ur logic, this is great stuff. But hey, how often does a seller actually end up buying their own shares back in the same action?

          • Justsayn

            Wake up on a mondayised holiday. Who gives a shit. 27% of the vote was it? And you think that give you a mandate to do anything?

            The assets are being sold. We, collectively, decided they should be. Get over it and help to ensure the sale goes as well for all of us as it can. Doing what you are doing is simply a spiteful attack on ALL New Zealanders.

          • Hazards001

            “Hey, a minor party called the Act party created this current government.
            I am sorry but that argument has been seen as false. U heard of MMP?”

            That’s correct you little bludging pissant. 100% correct and for 9 years we had the leftist dykes and feminazis kept in Govt by ohhh…now who was it???..that’s right…United Future..now a National Government Revenue Minister. MMP…the election of weasels and turncoats..says a lot for you. Do you even have a job? You’ve been posting on here 1/2 the morning while I’ve been working to pay for your bludging!

          • Polish Pride

            Do you believe in the system Justsayn? If so then surely you’ll be more than happy to wait for the outcome of the election on this.

          • Travis Poulson

            ” I prefer to pay high cost to my people(state) than to some fat pig in NY”

            That’s not a nice way to speak of your beloved aunty Hulun

          • unsol

            *Uncle :)

          • Hulun? Who is hulun? Do you mean Helen

          • johnbronkhorst

            misspelling her name is the level of DISRESPECT that she earned!!!

          • To be fair no one would call her fat…

          • Travis Poulson

            fat pig, as in feeding from the UN trough

        • hazardsareonitsok

          Save you money, planned powercuts!

          • Yeah imagine that… How would people talk to each other? Lol

      • tarkwin

        Great idea, cheese is getting a bit pricey! Any chance of bringing alcohol and the TAB in to this scheme as well? They’re costing me far to much, and beer went up again the other day. When will it end! Help me Russel!

        • Then go the other way if u think that works. Go to National and business and ask them to increase profit margins by 200% since that will make the economy solid, increase growth and make the consumer richer. How does that dichotomy work for you?

          • onelaw4all

            Do you even have a vague familiarity with basic economics and how the free market is supposed to work?

          • no, I assume that is what u wanted to read. Happy now?

          • onelaw4all

            It shows

          • In Vino Veritas

            Interesting Damian, but stupid. For example, in 1999 Contact Energy made a profit of 155,386m. In 2012 that profit had risen to 190,429. The maths tells us that this is a 22% increase over more than a decade. Margins can not therefore have increased by 200% as you claim. Contact currently has a ROI of 3.78% (industry 3.5%) and ROE of 6% (industry 11%). These are not numbers that equate to Shearer and Norman’s “super profits”.
            Perhaps if Labour hadn’t gouged millions upon millions in dividends from SOE power co’s, prices might not have risen so quickly.

          • Polish Pride

            Or perahps they would have aas the goal of any company is to maximise the returns for its shareholders. In fact had they not risen that quickly and there was opportunity for this. Shareholders should be taking the board to task over it.

    • Justsayn

      At the moment “these greedy bastards” are us!! Labour mostly – the bulk of the electricity price hikes came on their watch. If Lab was worried about the price it could have said to the power companies “We don’t want you to make any profit, so drop your prices”. It didn’t. We now want to trust the same people to set a fair price?

      Opportunistic destructive bastards throwing a hissy fit that they lost an election on this issue and now trying to sabotage the floats.

      • Interesting. However I am not to concerned with the past but with what we can do in the future. Again though, it is ok if prices go up b/c the profit goes to the state. Yes, it is just a tax for the people of NZ. Now, those profits can now go anywhere. Hence the game and rules have changed. Changed against the NZ people and favours the private owner. Hence we need other rule changes.

        Apply this to the model and tax system around petrol. If the state sold off it’s tax share to private groups would u be happy?

        • Justsayn

          If you want to offer a tax break as an election bribe then just do it. This method of giving one has the obvious side effect of undermining the price we’ll get for for the partial sale. Clearly, that is you goal so stop spouting bullshit and own up to it.

          If you want to lie about this as well, then is it simply another reason why no one should give you the car keys.

          I hope you have misjudged this. Sure, it will appeal to your own voters – but they got you were you now are. You need to appeal to the swing voters, and I hope they will see this for what it is and move even further away from you.

          • Polish Pride

            Seriously – your trying to relable a policy aaround lowering power prices a tax break!?! Thats pretty weak.

          • Justsayn

            Yes. It is accurate. You are expecting one set of tax payers to pay less for something, and another set of will need to take up the revenue slack. That is a tax break. Call it a subsidy if you prefer. The method is a strange one, but we know why this indirect method has been selected.

      • Polish Pride

        Such is the nature of politics

    • Ronnie Chow

      Actually getting rid of the lines charge would be smarter . As a Labourite , could you explain if Labour will keep the lines charge , which is a simple rort .

      • Grizz30

        Put you money into Horizon energy and Vector. It looks like transmission is now the place to park your energy investments

      • Polish Pride

        Thet should do that too or set that at a level to cover the cost of maintenance and future upgrades as and when required

  • CommonSense404

    This is no more than economic sabotage. For an opposition to deliberately trash the value of an asset who’s proceeds are going to be spend on other essential services like schools and hospitals is despicable. There is no logic to the Labour/Geeen arguments put forward for this policy.

    It is anti environment – cheap power means people will consume more of it. Hardly consistent with an environmental agenda.

    The benefits of cheaper power will be received by all, including ‘rich’ households who presumably will receive a bigger chunk of the savings. A targeted tax cut or ‘energy subsidy’ would have been a more logical way of achieving the impact in lower income households.

    The policy simply does not hold water. It is shallow, transparent sabotage and no more. Shearer is a goner – indeed part of me thinks he may have been set up big time…

  • Agree. Why didn’t they just say, When we get into government, Labour will forgo all Govt profit from power and give it to those on welfare? That would be more transparent and honest. Aussie Norman said on Tv3 this morning that it will stimulate the economy by providing cheaper power to businesses, just after saying that the publics’ power has been going up while big businesses’ power has been flatlining over the previous decade or two. He is never interviewed by a business economist – always a news reader who can’t follow through on pointing out the nonsense he spouts. Also haven’t seen Shearer interviewed. This really seems to be Greens policy.

  • Sir Cullen’s Sidekick

    Who cares about what Colin Espiner asks? Only Guyon Espiner matters folks. I ask all the Tories to go and read the latest Roy Morgan poll. I have been saying this for the last couple of weeks. Now it is not over yet. Wait for the TV1 and TV3 polls due out this weekend. National will be toast in those polls.

    • I googled Colin and google doesn’t know him… Lol. Guyon is choice

      • Justsayn

        You lie as badly as your employers. You might even look in the “scholar” search tool (but I don’t expect they know where that is in the Labour research team).

        • Then we agree. It is easier to give a worthless opinion than to do some actual research. :-)

          • Justsayn

            Why does Labour lie about this tax cut? Be honest and admit it is simply a tax cut delivered in a way that will undermine the float price. If you think that is the right thing to do for the country you proclaim to love then surely you are not shy of it?

          • The power market is over valued and the experts are saying this. This power share was just gong to be like Facebook. labour/green has done you all a favour.

          • Justsayn

            Can you admit that this is a tax cut delivered in a way that will undermine the float price?

          • I actually accept that as an expert statement, coming from you

            https://twitter.com/damibott

          • That is a little stalkie.. Want to know my other accounts too? Eeek

          • Travis Poulson

            No, we’ll find them ourselves. I bet Nadine feels a little “stalkie” too.

          • Really?

          • You signed up with your real name. Google did the rest. You came out of nowhere. One of my jobs here is as moderator, so I looked you up and down and question your motives for making such splash today. I know your education, where you work, and scrolled through your twitter feed to see what you are about.

            What you’re doing here is thread hijacking. I don’t mind. Once. Or Twice. But if you want to be here a bit longer, you’re going to have to put a few more calories into your posts.

            I actually welcome people here that would like to debate the topics with a left world view. But if you want to be here for much longer, I need you to be less of a saboteur and get a little more focused.

            Typically, people who have arrived with a splash and acted like you are acting now haven’t lasted. Either they bored themselves or we had to ask them to leave as the constant empty-calorie “noise” ends up being distracting.

            So, welcome. Hope you can settle in.

          • Interesting. I appreciated u sharing your motives and I didn’t know that we need to hide who we are (I’ll leave that there). And thank u for ur welcome….

            I liked how u shared the rules. Interesting. So it is like a communist state here? Only opinion that support the status quo stay? However, I have the right to reply to those who state my name (may change account — do I need to send u a cv?)

            I will leave it there.

            Thanks for fulfilling me in with your tikanga and kawa

          • Just like the marae has protocol, so does WOBH. It’s not a free for all. Try to figure out the general expectations and you’ll be just fine. Any questions, just ask.

          • unsol

            What on earth triggered you to suddenly come on here guns blazing & oppose? Most people when they search out a new blog do so because of a COMMON interest.

            So are you a troll or are you just a sucker for punishment?

            And once you have been here long enough you will soon realise that while we may all seem to agree, we don’t – everyone has little cyberspace altercations with someone at some point as that is part & parcel of sharing ones opinions.

            That said, the primary goal of this blog is to fight one common enemy – left wing. Well, they (you?) are not really an enemy per se as they are devoid of logic & reason. Except where the ME Bill is concerned. Ironically it is the right who lacked both on this issue (controlling ones personal life is meant to be the monopoly of the socialists).

            But they are fun to ridicule as they make it too easy. Especially when they continue to give people like David Cunliffe (Silent T), Trevor Mallard (quack boy) and David Shearer (sheep) air time.

            So enjoy your time on here swimming upstream….but make sure you can take as good as you give.

          • Interesting. Didn’t know I had my guns blazing. But after seeing and reading 12 hrs of crap on an idea that has merit I logged on here and things went wild. S^!t happens.

            I am never, I am just supporting an idea from a political party. It is you guys who defined me, abused me, stalk me etc yet very few actually discussed the idea I supported and why. This whole thing of name calling the left lacks maturity. Communication theory states that those who debate at personal or at the lowest level (name calling) have no argument and think that insulting and abuse is how we should act and ‘win’. Like school kids. No wonder there is so much abuse in Nz if this is how we act as adults. And I am sick of it. I am not surprised this country goes no where. Too busy abusing each other to feel good about our own self.

            I am sick of media opinion that only abuses others and doesn’t debate the real issue. I am sick of how the media call the left loopy each time they share an idea that may or may not have worth. I want a media that is neutral and debates both sides openly before an opinion is given. Name calling is all that Colin Espiner did and such descriptions are worthless. Calling an idea left wing or right is worthless. Let the idea be real with in itself.

            Descriptive language is so worthless and it is all we seem to do. 99% of the txt here is descriptive and what has it archived? Debating a new possibility is where real worth is found. Cheers

          • Justsayn

            If you want to debate the idea it has to be an honest debate.

            I strongly suspect that the idea is not about protecting the consumers from exploitation – post float the commerce commission and majority shareholder (still us) can do that.

            The idea is, in substance, a tax cut. Fine if you want to do that do that, but the problem is how that cut would be delivered. It comes in a way that will have an adverse impact on the value we all get for the assets we are about to sell. That is bad for all of us. The bit that makes a lot of people angry is that that impact does not seem to be accidental, but rater seems to be the very objective of the method chosen – spite at not getting their own way.

            Can you please explain why the tax cut needs to be delivered in a way that reduces the price we will get for the assets we are about to sell?

          • Ronnie Chow

            It does show that you spend a lot of time telling other people how smart you are on every subject . You must be very well educated , both tertiary and streetwise . Right Man Syndrome comes to mind .

      • Mediaan

        Then your spelling is the problem, dummo. I googled “Colin Espiner” and got tens of pages of references.

  • Phar Lap

    “Sabotaging the economy”could this be rephrased to read in fact ,”Economic terrorists.”attack private companies, a measured attack on a sovereign nations commercial activities causing almost $200 million dollars to be wiped off the value of Contact Energy plus all the value of Kiwisaver investors in that company.Of course all the grandstanding by The Australian reject self styled communist, Norman meddling in the affairs of NZ,and another reject from UN Shearer,dosn’t mean much other than it is just a threat, in the unlikely event they might win an election in 2014.The last election term has not even gone halfway,even if they did come up with such a stupid scheme,it would take up to three years from the day they uttered their” economic terrorist or treason comments.”

  • Justsayn

    They could give a discount on power via a tax break if they wanted. Equally, the commerce commission could step in to address any monopolistic profiteering post float (as could the government as the major shareholder) – it is not about that.

    Their policy is about undermining the float plain and simple. That is to the detriment of the Country as a whole – if we are going to sell some of them, then like that or not we should try and get the best price. They are selfish bastards who having lost the election where the floats were the main issue, now want to smash a few communal toys so that no one gets to play with them.

    This is an example of the worst of politics, where doing what you think is best for the country has given way to doing anything you think might win you some votes. Desperate, pathetic, childish, arrogant, selfish, destructive bastards.

    My hope is that swing voters see this for what it is – Labour people would have always voted for them anyway so who cares what they think of this bullshit.

  • cows4me

    Red Russell must be creaming his pants. This goes much deeper then power price regulation it’s a chance to punish those the Melons detest. “Progressive pricing”, be fucked, agriculture and particularly dairy farming would feel these commie bastards wrath . They hate us with a passion and when the government failed to enforce an EFS on us polluters the pricks were spewing. We would simply be subsidising domestic customers to start with then we would be forced out of business.

  • Colin Cloudesley

    We would be the only country in the world , where they are not shot for treason.

    These two are like an incurable disease, they will affect National,kill the country, and put New Zealand into the dark ages.
    SHOW US THE MONEY SHEARER.

    • Travis Poulson

      and the 300k houses

  • island time

    This is a typical Greenpeace Activist tactic used to wage war on the corporates. A similar situation occurred in Australia a few months back where a Greenpeace twat sent one of the mining companies share price into a tailspin as he “doctored” reports on forged letter head. Labour have been seriously sucked in and I find it incredible that they can claim any sort of ability to manage the economy. This would be social engineering to the max.

  • cruiseyman

    So under a Labour/Green govt I can buy a $300,000 house in Auckland and save $300 a year on power. What will be the next thing? $3000 Audis for all benes? $3 a month mobile ph plans? $3mill in Shearers off shore account?

  • Grizz30

    Some more questions:

    What will happen to energy prices once Russel Normans “Wheel Barrow”economics takes hold. Energy prices will go through the roof.

    How will the Labour/Green ETS affect prices. Will it not wipe out all savings gains.

    If they give away the first block of electricity and charge for subsequent blocks, would this not start seeing more people turn to wood and coal to heat their homes. Think of the additional emissions

    If there is no incentive for profit, then there is no incentive for building more generation assets. On one hand, when demand starts exceeding supply it leads to power price inflation. On the other it causes blackouts. Another way of looking at it, there is n incentive to run the plant efficiently.

    A lot of new Geothermal plant is partially owned by Maori organisations. These guys are going to take a hit.

    Without profit the Maori argument for cash for water rights falls flat. It the government going to compensate them as well.

    When private companies build new plant they take the risk of investment, not the government. One Example, NZ Windfarms has been a flop. Now the private sector will not invest and risk of new plant will rest solely with the Government.

    Most profit from Asset sell downs will stay in NZ.

    If you take away incentive to invest in NZ businesses, like energy generators, investors money will be ploughed into housing at an ever increasing amount. This will push up the cost of housing and probably far outweigh any savings gains from energy reduction. An additional $10000 on the mortgage at 5% is $500 in interest alone. There is over $100 billion parked in bank deposits in NZ alone. Much of that will find its way into the housing market if government interference prohibits stock market investment.

    Please add.

  • unsol

    Too right – it would have been ALMOST clever had it not been so bloody obvious!

    The funny thing of course is that arguments on the finer details will be inevitable – the left wing couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.

    As for “How does Labour decide that a 300KW block will save households $300”

    Well let me see – my guess is that they will wrangle it so that it becomes means tested……those on higher incomes pay for their power as usual & those on lower incomes…..the masses, will get the first 300KW block free.

    Not really socialism by stealth eh!

    • Mediaan

      You do talk rubbish. Have you ever stopped to think what “absolute power” is? MPs do, most of them, a tough and thankless job, and have very little power. They get paid lower than the top quarter of civil servants.

      Take a look at all the civil servants who are dragging in half a million a year. What do they do? Who are they? Would they be any use in a crisis?

      • unsol

        Let’s see who is talking rubbish:

        MPs do not have absolute power but they act like they do so the statement holds water. And things like credit card fraud, general fraud, ticket scalping, drink driving, assaults, cheating, trying to get as many taxpayer funded benefits as possible, lost millions in overseas bank accounts, cronyism etc etc all make case and point.

        Re “Take a look at all the civil servants who are dragging in half a million a year”…irrelevant

        and “What do they do? Who are they? Would they be any use in a crisis?”

        Shows how little you know about the way in which our system works.

        Around 10 per cent of public servants from five of the biggest departments earned $100,000, with only a handful earning around the half a million.

        Further, unlike the top tier of civil servants, MPs are but mere mouth pieces. They do not come with these little policy gems on their own. Sure they might come up with the odd idea, but it is the civil servants, outside contracts & pertinent interests that really put in the ground work.

        Next….

        • Mediaan

          No evidence offered by you. Here’s the report dated mid-2009 on senior state servant salaries.
          http://www.ssc.govt.nz/node/1476

          If you look at it, you’ll see that, in 2009, around 5000 civil servants earned from $100,000 to many times that. One chart shows salaries soaring above $500,000.

          That was the situation when National came back to power after 9 years of Labour political bribes and chicanery. At that time, MPs earned from memory about $115,000.

          Chief Executives of the over 100 Crown Entities and Subsidiaries, I saw some more current data recently with staggering sums being paid out. Just from memory, one of the biggies was over $600,000 to the chief of the Charities Commission. The chiefs of all sorts of things we would struggle to see the value of are getting quite substantial amounts.

          It’s all public data, out there on the web somewhere, but haven’t got it nearby to quote to you right now.

          • Polish Pride

            Jesus seriously Have you not figured out that civil servant wages skyrocket under Labour and thational come in they have a massive cull and hire massive amounts of contractors. Contractors rub there hands with glee when National come in. If you looked into it I wouldn’t be surprised if the overall costs where about the same once both figures were taken into account.

          • unsol

            Mediaan has NO idea:

            *Labour had education bureaucrats grow in number by 40% compared to 12% growth of teacher numbers
            *Central Health bureaucrats were up 51% while medical professionals up 28%
            *MSD policy staff increased 109% while MSD service staff only 23%
            *Overall an increase in bureaucrats by 37%, and 1 in 50 employees in NZ is now a bureaucrat
            *Salary costs for policy departments have increased 142%
            *Government Administration has been the fastest growing sector of the economy

            And to top it all off – those earning more than $300k received a pay rise of up to 600% increase under Labour

          • Mediaan

            I would like to see the figures on that, PP. Have you assembled evidence or is that just an impression?

            I am well aware of the contractor scam. Sometimes it seems to be used to give inept civil servants an excuse to have no skills, but be unsackable. It was never their fault, because they have never in their lives done any work: it was always a contractor that was brought in.

            So, the more there are corrupt civil service appointments, putting idiots in high paid jobs, the more there is use of contractors.

            We taxpayers get sent the bill.

            What we are actually paying FOR in the contractor fees is so some friend of a political or religious faction can be kept in a comfy job way beyond his/her competence.

          • williamabong
          • Mediaan

            Thanks a lot. Up to date figures, and horrific. I see around 17 civil servants earned well over 500,000 in the year 2011 – 2012.

            Not only are these figures out of scale with the job done, not only do they make civil servants believe they must be important (see Unsol, who appears to have that mindset), but also they are wildly out of scale with the New Zealand public’s expectations.

  • Auto_Immune

    Ugh. The allusion to Pharmac pretty much implies to me that they haven’t thought about the consequences of ‘NZ Power’ in practice OR they actually don’t know how Pharmac works.

  • Patrick

    They are playing the politics of spite – they know the fight to stop asset sales is lost so they will now do what they can to sabotage the outcome, never mind the cost to NZ.

  • Mediaan

    If they put up those leaders of Labour and Green, it will be easy for National to look good.

    John Key: a party leader who has blazed a successful path through competitive world commerce, has top credentials and could get an international high job for a massive salary. Instead he chooses to do a demanding job here in NZ for us, lucky us, presumably because he loves NZ.

    David Shearer: a party leader who would struggle to be employed if it weren’t for leftwing politics. A man who “forgot” a fat backup bank account in New York, suggesting that, still not very plugged in as a kiwi, he was hiding it. A man who can barely make fifty words of coherent comment on anything.

    Russel Norman: an Australian with zero appeal to employers. There is nothing on his CV, unless someone wants an agricultural labourer. Even then, an employer would think twice before offering him any work, because he is recognised as a sniveling complainer. His doctorate is in a 100% job-useless subject: the politics of the leftie NZ Progressive Party, a very minor party that lasted five minutes before sinking without trace unlamented.

  • johnbronkhorst

    Saw a van and sign parked at farmers cres, Pomare, today. Apparently their is to be a rally on 27th April at pigeon park, calling for people to “rise up”….ensightment to riot????

  • Edward Lyons

    Hells teeth, look at what happened in California with price capping. Consumers gorged on low prices and suppliers limited their supplies. Worst blackouts in history rolling on for months and definitely no new power stations to meet demand. Talk about ruin your economy.

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