Cry Baby of the Day – Claire Nathan

Cry Baby: Claire Nathan

moko

The incident: Claire Nathan applies for her “dream job” as a trolley dolly for Air New Zealand, she declares that she has a visible tattoo on her arm, commonly known as a job killer. Air New Zealand terminates the interview on the basis that their employment policy prohibits visible tattoos. 

The appropriate response: Move on look for another job, after all who in their right mind has a “dream” of being a trolley dolly.

The actual response: Claire Nathan plays the race card, declares her tattoo to be Ta Moko and runs off to the media who dutifully play the cards just as she wanted. Not only does she play the race card, she also acts in full entitlement and grievance mode that many maori have learned in the last generation.

Watch now for come womble human rights lawyer to take up her case with the Human Rights Commission who will then probably prosecute Air New Zealand for daring to want to have people at work without random scribbles on their arms, legs or face.

The next step will be someone like Tame Iti, with a full facial tattoo trying it on to be air steward.

There is a reason why these kinds of tattoos are called job killers. Claire Nathan, you are Cry Baby of the Day.

 


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  • spollyike

    Trying to piss off Rangi early today Whale? Nice;)

    • 4077th

      My thoughts exactly spolly. There is nothing nice about a chick with a tat. Those skank tramp stamps are no better than that chicken scratch on poor Claire’s arm. Another fucking air head that thinks these things are some sort of fashion statement.

      • spollyike

        I wouldn’t be surprised if rather than just a fashion statement she thinks that scribble makes her somehow better than anyone else, given that the same policy applies universally to all those with ink of any kind. But these types don’t like being grouped “universally” with everyone else do they?

        • AnonWgtn

          Sadly a typical Maori grunt – I am better than you.

        • 4077th

          But is depicts who “she is and her children”…FFS she should just carry a picture like the rest of us. “Clare Nathan” sounds about as Maori as John Hatfield or Peter Sharples or Steve O’Regan. She has no more claim to that heritage than I do and I was not even born here so claims about it being her human right to display such atrocities should not be applied unless she can prove at least 50% (that is generous in my book) heritage.

          • coventry

            Claire Nathan – Maori Role, Yeah Right

    • Rangi

      Nah – I think she’s retarded. No need to have a sook. Tho why on earth would you want to work for someone who doesn’t let you display your individuality, I’ll never know. There is no requirement for trolly dollies to be interesting & worthy of respect. Air NZ have just proved that despite making squillions off their association with Maori culture. (Good thing BTW). Notice they have a koru design at the tail of all their fleet and not, say, the cross of King George…

      • spollyike

        Don’t worry Rangi, when they change their name to “Air Aotearoa New Zealand” (like everything else) they’ll hire her;)

        • johnbronkhorst

          “…they’ll hire her” and go broke!

          • Dave

            Just like the Fisheries given to Maori, they managed to transform it into Been a Fisheries. I remember the bailout.

            Back to Claire Nathan, the solution is simple, its called Tat removal, cheaper than a lawyer.

      • coventry

        Rangi – they did offer her a job, just not a front-line one.

      • In Vino Veritas

        They aren’t dollies anymore Rangi. Thirty years ago, they really were dollies, in fact one of the prerequisites must have been that you were good looking with a great figure. Nowadays, anything goes. Except tattoos, obviously!

        • Mr_Blobby

          Yes I concur the standards have dropped markedly for Air NZ but other Airlines have maintained there standards.

          I remember a strike by Air crew, at the protest, one of the trollips was holding a sign I like to be fucked but not by Air NZ.

          • In Vino Veritas

            Trollops Blobby? Back then they just liked a good seeing too. Nothing wrong with that. And as I say, they were seriously good looking.

          • Dave

            And that was the male hosties was it IVV ??

          • In Vino Veritas

            Hah! Nope, they didnt have males back in those days!

      • Dave

        Suggest you tootle off to the Air NZ site and look up the requirements for a trolley dolly, yes they do have to be interesting, and worthy of respect.

        Do tell how they have made squlllions off their Maori Association, last I knew the Koru was not trademarked by Maori, from memory it is a fern, and that was here long before any Maori warrior set foot here.

        In hindsight, I suppose Air NZ could have made millions of their association with Maori, flying them all over the country for hui, and everything else, although it must cost AirNZ a fortune for all that food and wine at the trough, i mean Koru Club.

        • Rangi

          Worthy of respect yes, interesting no. But I reckon it would be a bonus if they were. Hmm let’s see how do they make millions of association with Maori – Kia Ora magazine, Maori, Koru club, Maori Koru main Air NZ logo, Maori – shall I go on? You are being a tad disingenuous aren’t you…

          • Dave

            No I am not being disingenuous at all, they don’t make any more off Maori association than any other kiwi business. if anything, in fact they should be charging Maori for highlighting Maori language.

          • Rangi

            That’s not how IP works – now surely you are being disingenuous. The link works financially, but not for the IP owners of course. But hey, maybe you could remember the financial advantage next time someone suggests Te Reo should be compulsory in schools.

          • Dave

            Yeah, the cultural language that chewed up millions of tax payers funds and still languishes, another big fat Maori FAIL Rangi. Why don’t Maori make it work themselves, get a few layabouts to develop a Maori language app or game for all those play-stations and Sony Wi’s most Maori seem to have.

          • Rangi

            In development too don’t worry, I’ll resist pointing out your obvious racism disease, its not nice to highlight the shorcomings of others.

          • Dave

            Rangi mate, I’m not racist, but cant stand any culture / race / or minority getting less or more than they should. Happy to give any person or group a handup, but not an ongoing handout. Remember the old addage Rangi, Give a man a fish, or teach him to fish.

            Time to cut the ongoing “fish supply” Rangi, teach them to fish for themselves.

            History is a good teacher, and predictor of future behavoiur, unless there is change, ………. you can work the rest out Rangi, you seem intelligent enough.

          • rockape

            Dave we gave them the means to fish,the nz fishing rights the sold it to the koreans to buy a few brothels and casinos on the Gold Coast.

          • Dave

            Seems like the same story with the land they swapped for muskets and blankets……… they want it back!!

          • 4077th

            “its not nice to highlight the shorcomings of others” Perhaps I should draw your attention to this little (high horse) gem from yesterday… “You’re a bitch to the machinations of the media with not an independent thought able to squeeze inside your narrow little mind – nothing more. Be consistent with your outrage fucking neanderthal.” C’mon Rangi if you want to be included in the game here at least try to be consistent.

          • Rangi

            The omission of context is notable…but dredge away, sling as much mud as you can – see how much sticks.

          • 4077th

            Utter bollocks Rangi, you called Dave on his degradation of others and forgot you had done the same. Context has nothing to do with it. The only mud slung was the filthy tirade you unleashed. I called you on it and nothing else.

          • BR

            I would be happy to never to see anything remotely connected with Maori again. That way you would get to keep your “intellectual property”, and the rest of NZ wouldn’t be forced to pay for it.

            Bill.

          • rockape

            No thats just branding, they were making money before the koru. Just like British airways changing their logo wasnt the reason they make money. Do apply a little logic. I know you had a rich white dad so dont have to work to hard.

        • Mr_Blobby

          You mean squillions of TAX payer funding don’t you.

      • mike

        Squillions eh? No wonder they collapsed and needed a bail out…

  • Patrick

    Plenty of cultures see tattoos as the mark of gangs, the Japanese for instance. Imagine sitting on a plane knowing you are being “waited on” by a gangster. Just ask the likes of Jerry Collins how he is perceived in Japan. Air New Zealand (& any other employer) should have the right to choose who they employ, there is no way this woman should be allowed to play the race card on this one.

    • Harroputza

      Gosh, imagine how butthurt Claire would be that the Japanese don’t recognise her special rights to have optional alterations to her body accepted without question by private businesses and society in general: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/3007904/All-Blacks-told-to-cover-up-tattoos

      • LabTested

        Good Link. Employ Cabin Crew with Tats & say good by to the Japanese market.

        But it is not just Air NZ with no Tattoos policy. I work with a european travel company that employ hundreds of customer service staff over the summer. They have a strict No Tattoo policy. The argument being that their average middle aged customer is not going to feel comfortable approaching a person with visible tats.

  • Brian of Mt Wellington

    She is just trying it on to stir things up and to see what she can get out of the system. It didn’t even look like a professional tattoo. I hope Air NZ don’t back down or give in or it will be like opening the flood gates for all sorts. Just because it may be classed as a ta moko shouldn’t matter, a tat is a tat whatever way you look at it.

    • gus

      “It didn’t even look like a professional tattoo” your dead right, in
      this day and age every Maori family has a amateur tattoo artist.

    • Bad__Cat

      I remember seeing a woman with a circular ta moko on her cheek with the words “Property of the Mongrel Mob” She should be a shoe in for a job with our tax payer funded airline.

  • Harroputza

    “That’s interesting. I wonder why they are asking me that. Perhaps it’s because they want to know if I have a ta moko.”

    No, you dozy shit. It’s because they want to know if you are going to fit in with the company’s dress policy of not having visible tattoos, regardless of whether they mean something special to you or not.

    Get over yourself. Get it removed, or get a new dream job that fits with your world view of having whatever tattoos you want wherever you want.

  • GregM

    My first thought was that the tattoo didn’t cost her the job, her fucked up attitude did.

  • Saccharomyces

    What a shit quality tatt. Looks like a drawing pin and busted open bic pen jobbie to me!

    “The next step will be someone like Tame Iti, with a full facial tattoo trying it on to be air steward.”
    – I’d personally be a bit more supportive of that. At least Tame Iti’s tattoos are of cultural significance.

    • spollyike

      It’s probably a jail tat.

  • Spoonfed

    AirNZ should be a bit more clever. They know they’ve got a full-on cry baby grievance train in play in this country.

    Ask about tatoos, quietly complete the entire interview, then send a letter saying “not suitable – sorry”. If pushed as to why, say “we had a lot of very qualified candidates seeking the role who we felt fit in better with our offering, but we certainly encourage you to apply at other airlines”.

    • Travis Poulson

      Nah those are just piss weak weasel words, they were up front and honest. Goood on them.

      • Spoonfed

        Sadly, it’s what this country has come to….

        As it is, they’ve now got a publicity cost, and possibly at risk of a legal cost. It’s not AirNZs fault, and I support them, but this is the game on the table, like it or not.

        • 4077th

          Pretty sure each time I have to fly to Wellington at short notice they will have grabbed enough mula off me to put aside a bunch of cash for such situations. Seriously, last year I booked 3 days in advance and it still cost over $500. the legal slush fund will be plentiful I am sure.

          • Rangi

            and now they’re doing away with standby flights. Profiteering move if ever I saw one…

          • mike

            Damn them and their sensible business ideas…
            Why pay money for a plane and crew if you don’t actually need them?!

          • AirNZ is, afterall, owned by the State. Shouldn’t it be the duty of an SOE to scalp the punters, if only to ensure that we can afford Treaty settlements?

          • mike

            Good reason to partially privatise isnt it?

          • Spoonfed

            Sure, but why would any business invite more costs when they could negate costs?

            They would charge you X regardless. Doesn’t mean they have to take on unnecessary costs of responding to and fighting the gravy train when they could easily side step it.

          • 4077th

            Agreed BUT sometimes it is better to have an upfront policy that negates future possible costs when someone like Clare here starts a bun fight because a customer complained. See where they are going now?

  • Mr Sackunkrak

    What personality disorder causes sooks like this to run off to the media?

    • spollyike

      Marxism, the need to criticise, the need to deconstruct what happened and reconstruct it from a victim (identity politics) perspective, the need for their own little “revolution” of some kind??

      • onelaw4all

        Don’t forget the eager participation of idealogically sympatico media.

    • Mr_Blobby

      Entitleitis.

  • cruiseyman

    If this has been her ‘dream job’ , why did she get the friggin tatt in the first place? How many other tattoed ‘trolley dollys’ has she ever seen? Idiot.

  • tarkwin

    Employing her would give Jetstar a real lift. I’m surprised she even got an interview, surely you would know what is expected from you before you bothered applying? No visible tattoos would seem quite a normal requirement in this sort of job. I wonder if they weren’t too worried about the tattoo because they had already decided she wasn’t ever going to get the job with a face like that.

  • coventry

    It can’t be a Moko, it doesn’t appear to have been done via traditional/cultural methods. Done with white mans tools it’s a tattoo, and AirNZ’s rules are quite clear on that bit.

  • Col

    I don’t think it was the Tat, Air NZ is down sizing, if you get my drift?

    • 4077th

      Yeah..nah I think I would rather a fat hostie with tats than one of those immaculately dressed and groomed 50 something chokkie runway pilots.

      • Col

        your too fussy 4077th

      • Mr_Blobby

        You would turn down a cooked breakfast in the morning.

        • 4077th

          Exit only on my hatch Blobby!

    • Mr_Blobby

      Yes I do. Would be no room for her and the drinks trolly, don’t know if I would trust her with the food trolly.

  • Rangi

    I really don’t think Rob Fyfe or Chris Luxon would give a flying fuck about her tatoo. It would be some middle management tosser justifying their position amid a corporate “reshuffle” making quite an arbitrary call.

    Another course of action would be for middle management to test the policy internally & capitalise on Air NZ’s close association with tikanga. Imagine how much more interesting a trolley dolly would be if you could discuss her tatoo & what it means & where her family ties are – sure beats the shitty b grade movies they have.

    Her job isn’t a lost opportunity – updating Air NZ’s thinking sure is…

    • spollyike

      “…Imagine how much more interesting a trolley dolly would be if you could discuss her tatoo & what it means & where her family ties are – sure beats the shitty b grade movies they have…”

      Umm no sorry it doesn’t Rangi.

      • Rangi

        First you have to be the sort of person who likes building sandcastles instead of kicking them down – You’re hot on my heels every post so…you can just be ignored…

        • LabTested

          what b grade movies? Flights on long haul are pretty good, New releases plus whole season of TV shows.

          You seem to suggest that people fly AirNZ because there is a Koru on the tail. I thought it was more to do with the quality of the product & service.

          I’m all for getting rid of the Koru if it means I do not have to look at Tats for 12 hours.. and not just this tat any tat

          • Rangi

            My point was, why watch a movie when you can learn more about this country, its people, geography & mythology? Of course, you could do both…but, you’d have to be psychotic to isolate your gaze on a tatoo for 12hrs Im afraid.

          • Muffin

            I’d rather watch a movie than listen to this tarts whining and bitching. rather watch paint dry or even reading a long list of your posts would be preferable.

        • Hazards001

          Yeah..thats cos 7 hours ago spolly was sitting at home looking after the rug rat like the stay at home wannabe that he is. What’s your excuse?
          No job,self employed,Government Employee, Leftist troll funded by the taxpayer or are you simply at work ripping off your employer?

      • rockape

        Yes but you could go the whole cultural Maori way. Selling your sister for a nail, the could be uniformed in little grass skirts with bare breasts. May not do much for the koru club, but wonders for the mile high club.

        • spollyike

          Now you’re talking…wouldn’t be many empty seats, they’d have to be a lot better looking than this chick but…

    • Justsayn

      There are two issues and I think I agree with you on one of them.

      AirNZ’s policy – maybe they do need a rethink as their blanket rule might be easy to apply (and in that way have more merit than other options) but seems a little outdated.

      Discrimination – if AirNZ want to say no visible tats then they should be able to, and a no visible tats unless you claim to be Maori rule is, in itself, discrimination.

      • Rangi

        Disagree, in fact I’d go further, why not prescribe which iwi & hapu you affiliate with on your application & a blurb on your moko. All of a sudden you are worth more than your peers to Air NZ because you are genuinely contributing to their strategy of supporting distinctly NZ made.

        • Justsayn

          I would guess that their strategy is to get bums on seats (did you just make up the strategy you attribute to them?).

          They run an airline, so I expect they are in a better position to judge the merit of the idea than you or I are.

          • Rangi

            No I didn’t – Kia Ora magazine, Koru design, their uniforms, the food they serve all NZ made, the strategy I attribute to them is blindingly obvious & rightly so given the tax payer bailout.

            Those who run the airline would recognise a good idea, those who are restricted by policy (middle management) if they had any sense, would make this idea their own & present it for consideration unless inertia is the goal of course…

          • Justsayn

            As you point out, this incident suggests the strategy you attribute to them is not their strategy.

          • Rangi

            Perhaps not – but only because positions are entrenched now. Don’t be surprised to see a U-turn in the near future…

          • AnonWgtn

            Actually the AirNZ uniforms are awful.
            Look at some of the opposition.

          • Mr_Blobby

            Yes something an old grandma would wear.

          • 4077th

            Air NZ Trolly Trollops = GILF (mostly)

          • 4077th

            Twas your mates in the red party that bailed them out Rangi.

          • BR

            It’s all just patronising bullshit really. Facial maps of Hampton Court Maze notwithstanding, I give Air NZ a wide berth for two main reasons. Firstly I do not patronise businesses that are owned by the government, and secondly, I do not like to watch mincing poofters kissing each other during what is supposed to be a compulsorily viewed safety demonstration video.

            Bill.

        • Bunswalla

          I’m distinctly NZ made, Rangi, and I don’t need a stamp on me to say so.

          • mike

            10th generation kiwi here… first white child born in NZ was my great to the nth grandmother.
            And I’m whiter than white. Don’t have to be a Maori to be a kiwi.

          • Rangi

            Nobody said you did, but if you’re going to profit off tikanga – as alot of NZ businesses do…and you are not Iwi affiliated, aren’t you infringing on the IP of others? Why not be more authentic about it?

          • Hazards001

            Fucking typical. Kiwi’s (mostly the white ones too) went out of their way to include Maori and their culture for years. To attempt to make us one people. Not to rip off or profit from some stone age crap but to be at one with it.

            As a return payment for being included and dragged out of the squalor the shit and the early deaths all stone age people seem to revel in they then have the fucking audacity to complain that they have been ripped off.

            As far as I’m concerned take the fucking Koru off the planes, shove Aotearoa up your arse along with the re naming of Government departments as that’s clearly ripping off your culture too.
            Abolish Waiata Haka and all other tax payer funded greetings by Maori cultural groups and welcome visitors in with a Highland fling and a some Egg Foo Yong from the people that actually founded this country.
            I’m sure they won’t be asking for a koha.

          • Dave

            What Hazard said – too bloody true.

          • Dave

            Thanks for down voting Hazards and then my reply Rangi. Why didn’t you just debate it ??

          • Rangi

            Wasn’t me mate – Perfectly willing to debate though, Hazards001 is just pissy that he has identified a rich, deep, fulfilling cultural trove from which to draw from – Where his should be is a big gaping bastardised mess! His problem, sadly for him, is compounded twofold by the fact that he refuses to take part and also that’s where his intelligence lies, frozen & yearning for liberation in that void.

          • mike

            Hold on, are you now saying Maori own the SIlver fern on which the Koru is based???

          • mike

            You keep harping on about IP… what IP are you referring to?

          • Rangi

            Ohh no!!! Feeling a bit left out there are we champ? Nemind you’re right, keep telling yourself what ever you need to to make yourself feel better.
            In the meantime, Moko, Iwi & Hapu affiliation is unmistakenly Maori as is the word Kiwi, Air NZ are missing an opportunity here…

        • Mr_Blobby

          What a load of absolute crap. Piss of tosser.

          • Rangi

            Awesome deconstruction & thorough analysis! You sir, should be commended (sic).

        • rockape

          Yes they should definitely get out there and buy maori made aircraft only after all they fly in Maori air using Maori fuel.

    • island time

      ! agree with most of the comments here, and of course if there is a no tatts policy that’s fine. If they were to open it up, then where do you draw the line??? No tats on the face? It can become a shambles to manage. Having said that, Air NZ carries a tat on the tail of every plane.

      • Tom

        Not a fern?

        • island time

          Correct – just like a tattoo.

          • Bunswalla

            Incorrect – Air NZ carries an image of a koru. The fact that a design such as a koru can also be tattooed onto somebody’s skin doesn’t mean the design is a tattoo. Unless it was actually tattooed onto the tail, which I doubt. Pretty sure it’s either paint or a transfer.

          • island time

            all good – a bit of fishing never hurt anyone. The Koru comes from the Fern so if you want to split hairs thats fine. I, like many fly Air NZ plenty. I couldn’t give a rats arse if someone has a tattoo on their arm or not. But I do not support people going to the press to have a cry about something like this.

          • Bunswalla

            What do you mean, splitting hairs? Whether it’s a fern, a koru, or an anchor with Mum and Dad either side of the shaft, a design that may or may not be tattooed on somebody is not by itself a tattoo – it’s just a design, or an image.

          • island time

            Get over your self

          • Dave

            Its a fern IT, and AirNZ simply call it a Koru in Maori tradition, or are you suggesting Maori invented the Fern. No, it was here when they first arrived.

          • island time

            You suggested it not me.

          • Bunswalla

            I see the standard of your argument – better for you to keep quiet and have people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

          • Tom

            Yep, but not a tattoo that looks like it was done by some crackhead in Porirua

      • Travis Poulson

        You seem to be unable to determine the difference between a logo and a tattoo. I’ve never heard of a plane having a tattoo, that’s just ridiculous.

    • Timboh

      First Rob Fyfe is not there now. If he was then of course he would care. Image is all with an airline. Second. You obviously don’t fly international much. They always have the latest release movies and your B grade is subjective. Third. Who gives a fuck about the cabin attendant’s family ties? You obviously do but all I care about is service, service, service and if possible something nice to look at. That’s why I usually fly Singapore or Malaysian.

      • Mr_Blobby

        Try Thai.

        • Dave

          I still prefer Air NZ, very interesting hosties, great food and service. Still my Fav Airline Blooby.

          • Mr_Blobby

            One to many bad experiences for my liking.

          • rockape

            Yes but to satisfy Rangi the food needs to be cooked in a hangi, a bit tricky at 30000 ft.

    • Mr_Blobby

      Take the hint with the down arrows fool.

      • Rangi

        You do realise something has to be there before down (or up) arrows appear don’t you…all of a sudden you saying anyone is a fool, means alot less.

        • Mr_Blobby

          Your just a troll, one of a few that infests bloggs like this. Sooner or later they will get bored with you, like a cat playing with a mouse.

          Trolls come and you go, but the rest of us carry on. Nobody takes to much notice of what you have to say, personally I have a low tolerance for clowns like you, with your deep sence of entitlement.

          • Rangi

            Yet when it comes to logical argument you & other insufferable racist dinosaurs are continually found wanting. Be honest – unless provoked, Im pretty reasonable & generous with my reasonings.

          • Dave

            Rangi, no one is forcing you to be reasonable or generous, happy for you to be stingy, and to OPEN your EYES and Mind, look around and think.

          • rockape

            Maories are people who live in NZ like me. They have brown skins I am of Scots decent. We both live in NZ. I nor any of my family were here when the land was taken. If you want to tax me for that. What about all Maori living in Aus getting treated the same way An extra 10%tax for being Maori, after all your benefiting in someone elses country, does that sound fair to you!

          • Rangi

            How is your daycare assistant letting you have so much time on a computer?? Tell your folks to sack him

          • rockape

            Hey Rangi, you bang on about culture. Take a walk through Nelson your home ,compare what you see of British culture to Maori culture. I think you will find from the Cathedral to the docks , even to the name of your town, NZ yas a prodominate British culture, closely followed by German with Maori a distant third. You had you chance its gone you now live in a british culture, get over it.

          • Bunswalla

            Stop being so needy, it’s pathetic. Hand in your man card, pussy.

  • AnonWgtn

    How any person can disfigure themselves with tattoos is something I cannot understand.
    Imagine what they will look like when they are 60. Wrinkly and horrible.

  • rockape

    I think you are being a bit unfair, she certainly looks old enough and ugly enough to be an Air NZ hosty. Fly with sSingapore or emirates for the best trolly dollies!

    • AnonWgtn

      But include Cathy also.

      • Bunswalla

        Cathy who?

  • rockape

    Well I am going to apply for for a hostey job Ex RAF Qualified fire and airfield crash officer, They shouldnt discriminate on age or looks so as a bearded white 66 year old I should be in with a chance, what do you think, I am starting a fund for the court case already. Contibutions can be sent to my bank account in Nigeria.

    • Patrick

      Poofs have a greater chance of being employed as a hosty – better get some practice in mate.

      • rockape

        I was screwed for nine years by Labour, does that count!

        • Patrick

          Only if you can produce the swiss ball used.

        • Dave

          Hmmm Helen was PM then rockape, oh…….you poor chap, perish the thought.

  • Justsayn

    “The Human Rights Commission says “a person of Maori descent may not be denied employment, entry to premises, or declined service because they wear moko visibly”.”

    That is discriminatory – you cannot deny me employment on the basis of my tat because I claim to be Maori but you can if I don’t make that claim! What is the world coming to? What’s next on the its okay tat list, Samoan, Togan, Celtic, Religious tats…

    • spollyike

      Remember we are a Bicultural country and our kids are being taught that maori have a dual set of rights as Tangata Whenua. Guess this sort of thing is what it means…

      • Grizz30

        No, we are a multicultural society now. Kids are learning Mandarin in primary schools. It is just that one particular cultural group are desperately trying to cling onto their cultural identity before it fades away and every starts dancing with dragons in Lantern festivals.

    • Rangi

      Well given that Maori is native to this country alone…Im sure if you wanted to be authentic about your tatoo’s you’d go for jobs in your own homeland…wouldn’t you?

      • Justsayn

        So it would be okay to deny a Samoan a job on this basis but no a Maori?

        • Rangi

          No, not at all, Im saying get an airline job in Samoa, or Ireland, or Tonga & complain to them if it doesn’t work out.

          • Justsayn

            What about a white guy born in Henderson of Ngati Westie with a moko? Okay to refuse to hire him on that basis?

          • Rangi

            A try-hard Ozzy blowhard, with a mullet, ropey goatie & an anchor tatoo, white trash archetype would hardly qualify as “distinctly NZ made” now would it…

          • Justsayn

            Avoiding an honest answer?

            An otherwise prefect candidate who, despite being completely non-Maori, identifies so strongly with Maori culture that he has a full face moko.

            Are you going to be a discriminate against him because he is non-Maori?

          • Rangi

            What…Like this guy? No not at all, if I was in charge, he’d be in!

          • Justsayn

            Great pic!

            So it is not a discrimination issue at all, simply a branding issue where your view of how AirNZ does its branding differ from their (current) view? On that basis the Human Rights Commission should shut up and go away?

            By the way, how do you know John Key is not part Maori? 1/128th (one great great great great great grandparent with the rest having no Maori ancestry)? I don’t recall him ever having been asked and, like many, he may not know what the answer with any certainty.

          • Rangi

            I know lol – awesome pic right? I thought he was Jewish but all that aside, if he’s part cuzzie, sweet as! That would explain his appeal to the milfs out there…;)

          • Justsayn

            Yes, great pic. I’m sure there are jewish Maori, a kosher hungi anyone?

            Along the lines above, can you help me with a real question I never seem to get a meaningful answer to… if we have a rule or law that treats Maori differently to non-Maori how do I tell whether I am Maori or not?

            That seems to me to be a basic problem with a lot of what gets discussed, and in a settlement context seems to have led to a few that have done very well (with strong Iwi ties) and a large number of mainly urban Maori to whom the settlements have only meant a higher tax bill.

          • Rangi

            Two parts to your question 1. Eligibility 2. Laws which treat A different from B

            To 1. My take on it (and I am no authority) is that iw affiliation is a reasonable easy thing to substantiate. Investigations into your lineage will take place & depending on whether you meet certain criteria, you should get an answer fairly readily. The systems are there and since the Govt deals with Iwi rather than individual Maori – for legal purposes, this is the most reliable barometer of “Maori-ness”

            To 2. Successive Govt’s tiptoe carefully around application of laws treating Iwi different from others. Eg, I am yet to discover a Law which directly advantages “Maori” over others. Under this cloud, Govt conducts settlements with Iwi for well substantiated claims (and yes some frivolous, but that’s capitalism for you). Throw industries not yet created into the mix (Traditional health care methods is a good example) all of a sudden you get non-Maori hitching their wagon diluting opportunities when the focus should be on settlement. It is at this juncture, friction arises.

            My observations are that when people grizzle about how lucky “Maori” are when successful with a well fought settlement, In every single case – none of them want to swap places.

          • Justsayn

            Thanks.

          • 4077th

            My observations are that when Maori receive yet another unjustified handout funded by my and thousands of other kiwi’s tax dollars for something that happened centuries ago is that I have every right in the world to grizzle as you put it. “A well fought settlement” like the cellular broadcast spectrum? FFS give me strength!

          • Rangi

            There is no settlement with the broadcast spectrum and BTW – if the spectrum was not on any treaty schedule (it wasn’t) wouldn’t ownership of that resource instantly default to Maori? If not, why not?

          • Justsayn

            These are interesting and difficult issues in NZ. We don’t discuss them well – it seems to quickly reduce to slogans from both sides.

            While I feel we have very opposing views on a lot of things I’d encourage you to sick around on this site. You’ll cop a good wad of vitriol, but I for one would welcome reading your perspective on some topics (particularly if you can avoid the sloganism as well).

            Take this AirNZ thing. I suspect we think we may not be far apart… AirNZ was completely within its rights to do what they did, she is a winger who needs to get over herself, the Human Rights Commission should get something more important to do, the media is just trying to create a story where there is none, but AirNZ’s policy seems a bit silly and might benefit from a rethink.

            The only merit I can see in AirNZ’s policy is that it avoids arguments over whether a particular tat is ok or not… and thus avoids employment claims on that issue. That has merit to it, and maybe that merit is enough to make it the best policy option.

          • 4077th

            Do not put words in my mouth Rangi, I did not say it had been settled you took the opportunity to use it that way so it suited your argument. Read the article below.

            http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10866968

            “Adams said the Government would look to establish a $30 million fund which would focus on how the Crown can “assist Maori [to] leverage the potential benefits of new technology”.

            A coalition of groups – which includes the Maori Council – already put a claim to the tribunal over 4G spectrum in 2009 but this was put on hold pending discussions with the Crown.”

            $30M “fund” this time around and $5M in 2000. If looks like a poo, smells like a poo and feels like a poo it probably is one!

            And BTW, there is no point trying to bait me with the last line.

          • Dave

            4077 Maori already use technology extensively. Look in most of their homes, Sky, playstations, latest mobile phones, dvd and recorders, police scanners, its all there.

            On a serious note, I am all for a Maori tech fund, but like the Asian tech fund, let it come from their own pockets, or settlement funds, and not be continuously funded by the poor Tax-Payers.

          • 4077th

            LOL yes true Dave. It just cranks me up (and Rangi knows that) when Maori suggest they have rights to these things because they are Maori. They have no more right than you or I as Rangi points out above re Vodafone. If they have a claim to rights they first establish that then Pay for it with their own money not fucking mine. I am sick to the gunnels of this and previous governments writing cheques for shit I don’t want to buy!

          • Rangi

            No I didn’t! I said there was no settlement, Why is the Govt interfering with Crown & Iwi business? How that for baiting??, Seriously tho, a paltry $30m is chickenfeed to what the value of the asset. The Govt will be found wanting at the end of the legal stoush for the simple reason that the neither the Govt or the Crown can lay claim to the spectrum rights, so what right do they have to auction them? If I were Vodafone, I’d be doing some research to secure a long term position then I’d talking to Iwi…

          • Dave

            So, Maori used the spectrum how Rangi, just like the roads they built, the pastures, the, oh yeah, they DIDN’T build any of it, didnt even think of it. Fraud, Failure!!

          • Rangi

            I think you’ll find a vast number of the labour force used was Maori but that’s besides the ownership of rights issue. Which is of course, what the legal argument is about.

          • Hazards001

            The vast labour force was people that wanted to work. The one thing we can all look back on with honesty is the Maori labour force has never been all that highly visible. I remember the parents of Island friends I grew up with in the 70’s bemoaning the laziness of the Maori…and how they didn’t understand it(given the amount of whining they were doing even then.
            As I come from a roading forestry and agriculture background I dare you to try prove to me that the Maori built it all!

          • Hazards001

            “There is no settlement with the broadcast spectrum and BTW – if the
            spectrum was not on any treaty schedule (it wasn’t) wouldn’t ownership
            of that resource instantly default to Maori? If not, why not?”

            Because as best as we can tell Marconi wasn’t a Maori…how’s that for a why fucking not?

          • Rangi

            He does not, nor the NZ Govt, have rights to the spectrum in NZ – tool

          • Hazards001

            Well you certainly don’t

          • Rangi

            …never claimed to – it’s the Govt’s role to assume things like that, then embarrass themselves in court – not mine.

            Honestly, just do a quick examination of what Im talking about – reason, fairness, equity are just abandoned. Its so obvious & pervasive to be embarrassing.

          • rockape

            Here was me thinking the jews were a religion and isrealis were the people. Just shows you are a wee bit racist!

          • Rangi

            Hows that racist? What were they prior to 1947? #facepalm…

          • rockape

            Certainly were not a nationallity . If they were name their country.I seem to remember that there was a country called isreal from my bible classes. Facepalm yourself. Even in modern israel there are non jews so you can hardly call isrealy moslems or Christians jewish now can you.

          • Rangi

            “Bible classes” says it all – now go spend some time on a therapists couch

          • Kimbo

            …actually Rangi, I think you may be in danger of offending a few orthodox Jewish people linking a Jew with moko.

            Leviticus 19:28 (which is part of the Torah/Law of Moses) “Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord”.

            Which just goes to show that one person’s valued tikanga is another’s poison.

            But maybe even more appropriate given the issues and discussion that have been coalescing around your posts the last few days (and you may be more sinned against than sinning), is verse 18 from the same chapter: –

            “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

          • Justsayn

            But not if the tat was a Samoan design?

          • 4077th

            That is funny! Grrrr

      • manuka416

        If you wanted to go for jobs in your own homeland, you wouldn’t disqualify yourself by getting a non-concealable tattoo.

      • Bunswalla

        Maoris are not native to this country alone, and you’re mad if you think that’s the case.

        Ever been to Rarotonga Rangi?

        • Rangi

          Nope – wouldn’t they be Rarotongans?

          • Bunswalla

            Only in the same way that NZ Maoris are New Zealanders. Native Rarotongans are Cook Island Maoris.

          • Rangi

            Pheww! Here’s me thinking you were being serious – turns out you’re just fucking around with semantics. Alert me when our Govt starts dealing with CI Maori’s, in the mean time – thanks for the diversion

          • Bunswalla

            I know you’re a bit thick, you’ve made that very clear, but pretending your argument hasn’t been blown out of the water is a bit disingenuous wouldn’t you say?

          • Rangi

            Not unless CI Maori’s are relevant here, for clarity – they are not.

      • Muffin

        Fuck you’re a racist Piece if shit, Maoris are immigrants here too.

        • Rangi

          Pfft – throw away comment, at least tell me how Im racist please…

        • manuka416

          You misunderstood, Muffin. Rangi was meaning that Maori are unique to NZ. i.e. this is their native country.

          But, as I tell my part-Maori kids, we’re all immigrants.

      • mike

        This is my homeland, we are all immigrants here buddy!

        • Dave

          Unfortunately Mike, the welcome (in general) from Maori is not there, I am a born and bred Kiwi, but have copped abuse from Maori on several occasions, the usual, get off our land, F#*k off whitey, along with such things as them offering dental services, yunno, tooth extraction. Have lived in Aussie for over 15 years, and no one has ever suggested I leave here. Different attitude, nothing will change in NZ until……..

          • mike

            Until we get rid of our pasts and move the fuck on as ONE people…Kiwis!

          • Rangi

            I have no problem with it, but you’ll have difficulty with people accepting being recognised by a Maori word.

          • mike

            You mean like “Pakeha”? You’re right I have great difficulty being called that.
            No problem being called a Kiwi.

      • rockape

        Maori are just another pacific islander, no more special than any other.

        • Rangi

          Apart from, of course, the Govt deals with Maori Iwi & not other PI’s on settlement issues – Jeez rockape, that was an easy one, you’re slipping!

          • rockape

            Yes just because the Government does something doesnt make it right, does it Rangi. And dont many Pacific Islanders have a special right to settle in NZ?

          • Rangi

            Without stating limitations – you’re promoting anarchy, how “Rockape-y” of you…

          • rockape

            No Not anarchy I just dont agree with some things this Government does and many things the last Government did. I will wait to declare anarchy if we get the Green /labour government.

      • onelaw4all

        Anyone born here is native to this country.

        • Rangi

          Are you speaking for everybody? Or just yourself?

          • onelaw4all

            I thought I was fairly succinct.
            Try again.

          • Rangi

            You have everybodies mandate to speak for them?

          • onelaw4all

            I’m not speaking for anyone. I’m talking about the irrefutable definition of the word.
            If you want to try to use another one, by all means try.

      • Dumrse

        Native my arse. You arrived here in a waka didn’t you ? And, following your arrival you systematically set about dispatching the NATIVES that lived here.

      • rockape

        So your ancestry goes back only 700 years, where did you come from what were your people before they arrived in NZ. Raratongans, what. You tell me.SO YOU ARE NOT UNIQUE. You are agroup probably put in your waka
        and banished from Raro for being disruptive and creating trouble. Banishment of death were the usual punishments in Polonesia so what were you. Do you still believe in the farey tale that south island was a waka.

    • DavidW

      Is that the HRC blowing smoke or a quote from the Human Rights Act?

      • Justsayn

        smoke

  • AnonWgtn

    And she is ugly too.

  • manuka416

    The HRC’s statement doesn’t quite fly: “a person of Maori descent may not be denied employment, entry to premises, or declined service because they wear moko visibly”

    A couple of years ago a woman brought a similar case to the Human Rights Review Tribunal. She claimed that she had been discriminated against by being asked to wear a top that covered a moko on her arm (she worked in a restaurant). Her case failed – it wasn’t proved that being asked to cover up was a general offense to Maori, and it also wasn’t proved that non-Maori wouldn’t be under the same demand. I.e. indirect discrimination wasn’t proved. Quite right.

  • steve and monique

    Understood she wanted a tat that is special to her,which denotes family etc., But why get it on your forearm,when the top of the arm can be covered by a short sleeve.

  • manuka416

    Moko of genuine significance are rare these days. Consider Mike Tyson and his “moko”. Or the French rugby player who got “Maori” tats. Or the mozzies who get theirs over the ditch, in trying to find some identity. Or the sportspeople who think it’s a requirement to qualify for a national team. Or the pakeha who get them because of their patriotism. They are more a symbol of personal cultural/national/whanau pride these days, rather than something of traditional cultural significance. A badge that says “I’m Maori/Kiwi”. If visible moko should be acceptable to Air NZ, should a NZ flag tattoo be also?

    • 4077th

      Explain Robbie Williams then?

      • Justsayn

        His mother went to the pub one Friday and got really pissed…. and the rest is history.

        • manuka416

          Nice :D Vote up.

      • manuka416

        The foreigners getting ’em, I can’t explain. The kiwis I can. The point: having moko shouldn’t warrant you favourable treatment – they’re just so commonplace.

        • 4077th

          Point taken and agreed.

        • Rangi

          Authenticity should be preserved if possible, if not, there’s not much we can do about that sadly.

          • 4077th

            So now you’re the tat police as well Rangi?

      • Roger

        Has he applied to be a cabin attendant?

        • 4077th

          Personally he grinds my gears but I suspect he would be more entertaining than most of the crew on Air NZ flights. A couple of years ago I managed to finally use an upgrade and was looking forward to a blissful ego trip in first class. I used the first class boarding queue (as you do) and made my way to the first air bridge. I was met by some ragged looking 50 ish “bloke” who mincingly asked if I was in the right lane for boarding. His look of horror was classic when I showed him my boarding pass. Perhaps it was something to do with the cargo pants, trainers and T shirt I was wearing (my usual long haul outfit). Prissy old git was insufferable for the whole trip. (AKL to HK).

  • Seems to me

    And its her version of what happened!!!!!!-havent heard the other side of the story. Not saying she is lying, just would be interested in the context. I see Joris debres is carrying on his approach on Facebook. Seems Dame Susan will be mulling it over and thinking before rushing out to the press.

    Joris de Bres says

    I think this is outrageous. Claire Nathan shoud definitely complain to the Human Rights Commission. Thank you Mihingarangi Forbes and Native Affairs for bringing this to light.

    • Bunswalla

      Just as well Joris de Bres is a has-been with no position at the RRA then isn’t it. Susan Devoy would have told her to harden the fuck up.

  • Corner_shop_not

    The problem with playing the race card is that the media never ever bring up the valid point that actually what is defined as ones culture could be anything! So if they accept her tatoo on cultural grounds, then why should’nt they accept Joe Trailertrash who walks in with a skank ink on her neck and claims it to be her ‘culture’…….everyone has a right to culture not just brown people – so therefore AirNZ has no choice but to uphold their policy as it’s the only decent way to treat everyone the same…..
    Fuzzy logic? maybe – but i just hate the fact that no one questions why only brown people are allowed to have a ‘cultural’ reason for things. And by the way I am a brown person making this statement.

    • Mr_Blobby

      Replace allowed with stupid enough.

    • Bunswalla

      Thank you Apu.

      • Corner_shop_not

        Thank you..come again…

  • Greg

    She’s can’t help it she’s just a moron.

  • kiwiinAus

    Cripes. It’s even made the Sydney Morning Herald. Must be big news.
    Whenever people don’t get what they want it’s easier to cry “discrimination” and run to the media who appreciate a nice easy story rather than being real journalists and finding real news.
    Surely this woman wasn’t stupid enough to expect that an industry where there are strict policies about grooming/appearance would be happy to take her on with a tattoo.
    What makes me angrier is I’m wasting my time writing this when she doesn’t deserve a scrap of my attention.

  • Steve (North Shore)

    “I am Moari, I have rites bro”

    “Look at me, look at me, I am special”
    Claire is being very CLEAR about who she is

  • kiwiinAus

    Picture this: This lady is a cabin attendant. The lady in the wheelchair (the wheelchair discrimination saga) is getting on the plane and for some reason needs to sit at the front, but the seats at the front are occupied by the 2 lesbians (the lesbians at the B&B discrimination saga). So the tattooed cabin attendant asks the lesbians to move to accommodate the wheelchair lady. The lesbians refuse.
    So, who is being discriminated against? The lesbians because they are asked to move? The tattooed cabin attendant because they said no to her or the wheelchair lady because she didn’t get the seat. What a dilemma. Who will go to the paper first?

    • Bunswalla

      Great question. Can’t answer as head exploded.

  • get a grip

    For those interested……The Human Rights Tribunal did not uphold a complaint of racial discrimination relating to moko and employment….

    .http://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZHRRT/2011/20.html

  • billy

    claire nathan,what makes her special? — being maori ? — no different than anyone else, unfortunately this is another case of ” I AM MAORI ” i deserve special treatment.
    tattoos are meaningful to all who wear them, no matter what race or creed,but some are bright enough to have them in places that can be covered by normal clothing, rules are rules.

  • Grizz30

    Why is this argument here about a moko. The policy is the same for ALL tattoos. If being an airline hostess, or any hospitality job that served high paying VIPs, was her dream job, then why did she not do her homework and act with considered thought about the placement of her moko. Surely putting it on her upper arm would have been more appropriate.

  • IWantToBeLikeMallardOneDay

    Dream job pushing a trolley up and down a plane in mid-air? Definitely a Labour voter. I think she’ll change her mind about being an air-hostess once it’s pointed out to her that she’ll miss Friends if she is required on international flights.

  • Col

    I hear Jetstar offered her a job, I didn’t know they had wide body jets?

  • Harvey Wilson

    Tattoos turn an otherwise normal healthy person into an ugly fuckwit, and I don’t want ugly fuckwits serving me high quality meals on our national airline. Go work for Jetstar YOU TRAMP.

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