Operation 8 laugh in

Take your pick.

What has been the most hilarious reaction to the IPCA Operation 8 report?

How about Tame Iti planning to seek compensation?

Or another one of the guilty four seeking separate indigenous reservations?

Parihaka’s Emily Bailey, her partner Urs Signer, Tame Iti and Te Rangikaiwhiria Kemara were found guilty of firearms charges in March last year following Operation Eight, the Urewera raids in 2007.

“If countries like Canada and the United States can cope with separate indigenous reservations and entire states with separate laws inside one country, then why can’t we?” she said. 

“Why do we have to hear ironic calls of apartheid and separatism? One rule for all doesn’t mean equality, it means authoritarianism and separatism between the rich and powerful and the poor.

“I don’t believe that’s what New Zealanders want. True equality comes through diversity, respect, trust and justice.”

And who can forget the Greens saying the raids were down to racial discrimination?

The party’s police spokesman, Dave Clendon, said it was not okay to “descend like masked ninjas” on a small community, adding that police thinking about the raids had not fundamentally changed.

He believed racial discrimination played a part on the abuse of rights and illegal detention of innocent people.

All happily repeated at length by journalists.

And how about the most tragic aspects?

Our media buried the fact that the IPCA said the raids were justified.

Media also failed to show the Police footage of the military camps:

And perhaps most tragic of all – the media don’t even ask those involved why they were in the bush with rifles, playing at being soldiers and throwing Molotov cocktails.

Now the left wing are using this report to attack the government…do we have to remind them that these raid occurred in 2007 under the rule of Helen Clark, with Annette King as Police Minister.

Why haven’t the media asked Annette King for comments about the raids? Why haven’t they asked Helen Clark?

 


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  • spollyike

    Fucking Politically Correct Reverse Racism IWI (I WANT IT) Bullshit! These cunts are ruining this country faster than you can say tinorangitiratanga…

    • manuka416

      How so, spollyike? How did the terror raids change your life? How is the country being ruined for you? Still seems fine to me. Chillax.

      Any claim for compensation by the guilty is farcical – as is the idea of Maori reservations. However, compensation to the innocent should be considered.

      PS: It’s “tino rangatiratanga.”

      • spollyike

        Whatever.

        • manuka416

          So say the ignorant.

          • spollyike

            Whatever..

          • Honki

            how about you debate the issue further. Let me guess…whatever?

          • manuka416

            A proverb for you spollyike: Whāia te mātauranga hei oranga mō koutou

          • AnonWgtn

            I agree, if I knew what the hell he was talking about.

          • manuka416

            Nice :D You got a vote-up from me.

          • maninblack

            seek learning for the sake of your well being?

          • manuka416

            Spot on :)

      • Honki

        agree with you. If there was a crim hiding out in Bassett Rd, and therefore the hoi polloi of Remuera got their homes invaded and damaged, how would Spollyike react to that I wonder?

        • In Vino Veritas

          The difference Honki, is that it is very unlikely that the “crim” you refer to will be taking refuge with any of the residents of Bassett Rd, so the odds on the Police having to raid a house are small. And I’d point out that there was more than one “crim” in this instance. And I’d also point out they were undertaking military training, with weapons including molotov’s. Now, lets see, what would a militarily trained person, in peace time, do with a molotov that could possible be for the good of everyone?

          • Honki

            due process should still be followed. The cops didnt do so. That is the issue.

          • In Vino Veritas

            Due process should indeed be followed Honki. Quite correct. And the police are taking a beating for it now. But not for sorting out the ratbags who were in the forest.

        • Hazards001

          The hoi polloi don’t live in Remuera. They live in the likes of Otara and Manurewa. You might want to buy a dictionary!

          • unsol

            Ah ha you are here – WO is going to love you!

            Go forth & kick some arse – whether these guys are fake (gay guy/kosh) or genuine either way they are way off the ball when it comes to fact vs reality!!!

          • Hazards001

            John is smacking the bejebus outta them. He doesn’t need any help from me.

          • Hazards001

            Well…maybe a little help..lolol

          • Honki

            Sarcasm was employed

      • rockape

        When the ability of the police in its ability to protect people is eroded then it affects us all.

        • manuka416

          How has the police’s ability to protect people been eroded?

          • rockape

            When police go into an operational environment things change, the police MUST be alowwed the discretion to change their tactics to meet that. Its the difference between Operational Controll and tactical command.

          • manuka416

            Agreed, within the law. You didn’t answer the question, though. How has the police’s ability to protect people been eroded?

    • Honki

      no such thing as reverse racism – god i hate that saying

      • manuka416

        Yes, “reverse racism” is a misnomer. It’s simply racism – whether it’s from white, brown, black, or other.

        • Dave

          Then STOP the racism against White People and other cultures, decry those that use racist terms (see my post above) ….White Mother Fuckers indeed, not racist when a brown politician says it. My kids aren’t going to date a Pakeha, thats not racist in your book, so i take it I can say my kids are never going to date a Maori, and thats okay is it Manaka.

          This Reverse Racism WILL NOT stop until Maori come out and integrate and say to Hone and his like, No HONE, that is racist we are ashamed of you.

          • spollyike

            We’ll never see the day when the part-maori population getting all the benefits turns around and holds their racist politicians, or other IWI inc. leaders to account Dave.

          • manuka416

            What Hone did? Not racist in my book? Of course it’s racist!

            The irony: in your mind you think I’m brown and so I am racist towards Pakeha. You’ve applied your own racist stereotype to me.

          • Dumrse

            Agreed, and calling Maori’s niggers obviously wasn’t racist either.

      • spollyike

        Works for me;)

    • manuka416

      You’re safe then, spollyike – It’ll be a hundred years before you can pronounce “tino rangatiratanga” ;)

      • williamabong

        Why the fuck would anyone want to learn, it’s a pagin language from a group of people who think they have first call on the ownership of the country, when in fact they are immigrants just like the rest of us, something conveniently ignored by those with a vested interest

        • manuka416

          A “pagin [sic] language”? Paganism is something quite different, it has no relevance to Maori language.

          Please come back with a “whatever” :)

          • spollyike

            That’s right maori can’t have been a pagan language because Pagans could write!

          • Rangi

            Thanks for correcting yourself there wank brains. Tho one has to pose the question “Why did the beautiful Pom abandon mother England to settle with the natives of NZ?” Could it be that they were sick of getting piss & shit dumped on them in the streets? Could it be to escape the rampant poverty, shitty weather? Could it be they needed respite from the harsh reality under the monarchy system where your birth decides your wealth? Or were those intrepid adventurers victims of their own self deceptive psychotic need to conquer the world in the name of a bullshit regent & fictional god? Why couldn’t we have been colonised by the French? at least then, we wouldn’t have alcoholism, obesity nor that famous British defect of fucked up teeth – ahh I can’t be fucked going on, My point is, upon arrival, bugger all of them could read, and many of them got shafted by the NZ company also…

          • spollyike

            Another racist rant form racist descendant of cannibals Rangi…

          • Rangi

            I suppose you think your posts aren’t racist? “Descendant of cannibals”?? Really? is that as good as it gets with you? Read between the lines, life is full of little ironies & contradictions. Like you for example, also descendant from cannibals as we all are…

          • Hazards001

            Oh you’d just love life under the French…no treaty of Waitangi then Bro..if you survived their rule..and unlikely you would have.

            A stone age culture that has failed to adapt and bemoans the good old days pre European when a man lived into his late 30’s and a woman seldom made it past 27.

            A culture of ecology that wiped out the largest flightless bird and the largest eagle ever. You should be so proud.

            A language of made up words…remind me again…what were the words in Maori for Aeroplane and broadcasting or maybe social welfare in pre colonial times?

          • Rangi

            The same words as English numbnuts, when those things did not exist! Fool. btw English owes most of its confusing construction to other languages and Look at the Kanaks in New Caledonia, not doing too badly under French colonisation at all.

          • Hazards001

            Really you fucking piss ant? The same words as English? As to the rest fuck off to New Caledonia then you muppet. You’re job choices will be pool boy or gardener.

          • Rangi

            As it happens, I have worked in NC, its quite lovely. You did ask for words in pre-colonial times when these things weren’t invented. Correct me if Im wrong but aren’t all languages comprised of made up words in varying stages of development? Here’s a word for you recently invented & in development – “Fucktard,”

          • Hazards001

            Which one was invented by Maori? And as it happens I believe you are full of shit. Racist self interest taking pull through…here’s an older word in progress IWI..it means I Want It.

          • Hazards001

            You made the words up fuckwit…you took the English word..and you did it about 70 years late..and decided to create a new word..and a new language you fucking stone age Neanderthal.

            Fuck off and feel sorry for yourselves somewhere else. The real Maori I associate with are too busy working, bringing up their families and being successful in there businesses to give a fuck about shit heads like you…and I’m with them!

          • unsol

            Don’t get too worked up – Rangi is only here as a page view pimp!

          • Mr_V4

            Rangi, check your history, the French were so bloody savage to Maori they were begging for the British to establish rule of law.

          • Ronnie Chow

            Yeah , the whites soon learned to get on with it , and the browns learned to climb on the whites back .

          • Rangi

            That’s how your mother, daughter, auntie, niece liked it, they found us irresistible…

          • Ronnie Chow

            Tell that to Pomare , NZ’s first brothel owner .

          • Rangi

            What is it with Chow’s and brothels?

          • rockape

            What was the old price for a maori selling his sister or wife as a whore. A couple of nails wasnt it!

          • Dave

            And you read all about Maori Language in books, as they wrote it all down didn’t they, all of their language, and the english terms as well long before Cook arrived. “Tui”

          • Mr_Blobby

            Its a made up bullshit made up language, more people around the World speak Klingon and they learned it because they wanted to, it did not take millions of tax payer dollars.

            If my Great Grandfather heard the new maori he would probably say what the fuck are you clowns saying.

          • manuka416

            All languages are made up. Fortunately, this isn’t the Klingon nation. Where were you going with that?!

          • Mr_Blobby

            Klingon is a made up bullshit language just like your new maori, people sitting around in dark rooms thinking up words.

            The difference is that It doesn’t cost hundreds of millions of Taxpayer dollars to try and get people to learn it.

          • manuka416

            What’s this “new maori” that you have a grievance about?

          • Rangi

            …in Maori?

          • Mr_Blobby

            Yes

        • spollyike

          Manuka’s animalist ancestors wouldn’t have even been able to write tino rangatiratanga as they didn’t know how to write the English alphabet written language so it’s somewhat ironic that they all of a sudden became experts in grammar in a mere 150 years. The missionary’s made up most of their words for them anyway. How long have Europeans been witting for again?

          • manuka416

            You’re not going down a “superior race” track, are you?

          • spollyike

            It’s called history as in what actually happened vs the revisionist rubbish that maori’s were just like AVATAR but brown.

            Why, you’re not going down some “maori-marxist free-speech police” track are you?

          • Bunswalla

            Take a chill pill Spolly, your tone and choice of words are coming across a bit, well, ugly. I’m picturing you frothing at the mouth and that can’t be good.

          • spollyike

            Whatever…here’s the thought-police again.

          • manuka416

            Have you been scammed? What did you lose? Isn’t the idea that the entire general population has been scammed by Maori radicals a bit insulting?

          • Mr_Blobby

            No.

          • Bunswalla

            Nothing to do with apathy, just distate at your ugliness, which is apparent to all. Keep frothing at the mouth and all you’ll do is give yourself high blood pressure and alienate those that might otherwise agree with you.

          • Mr_Blobby

            Feeling oppressed my the Majority.

          • manuka416

            You’re not making sense.

          • onelaw4all

            There are no inferior races.
            Just inferior cultures/ideologies.

    • Dave

      Which is a very large part of why I left NZ spollyike, that and the chances of Labour getting back and completely stuffing the country. Best thing about Australia, is their policies around WELFARE, none for kiwis (arriving after 2001 from memory) means very few unskilled and under resourced kiwis arrive here, even fewer kiwis spouting about white mother fuckers stay long. Seems difficult for most to survive without the Kiwi handout.

      • spollyike

        Yeah i left for oz too but (perhaps) made the mistake of coming back to this BS. Seems like 6 blissful years in WA made me forget about the Maori Party, Treaty etc…Bugger.

      • Bunswalla

        Um, Dave, not sure if you noticed but the ALP has been in power for a couple of terms now…

        • Dave

          Buns By Labour getting back in I meant in NZ, painfully aware the ongoing federal ALP train wreck but at least they have a strong leader, unlike her kiwi counterpart who struggles to get two sentences out.

    • onelaw4all

      ‘Cept you need to drop the language of the statists, namely “reverse racism”

  • cows4me

    I’m all for Bailey’s idea, lets have Maori reservations, let them have their own laws. Also let those residing in these reservation organise their own health care, infrastructure, income , pensions etc.
    Miss Bailey should be very careful for what she wishes for, her own reservation is mired in it’s own “difficulties” and pissing off her taxpaying benefactors really isn’t a bright idea.

    • Mr_Blobby

      You have it so wrong cows. They want all the entitlements. They just don’t want to have to work and pay taxes for it.

      • Ronnie Chow

        Yup , they love takeaways , but you never see them MAKING the takeaways .

        • unsol

          That is actually a very good point.

          I always see pakeha & Asian kids in places like mcds (once in a blue moon healthy happy meal for our daughter) & Hells (sorry Cameron – too good to scrap from the treat list!) & Asian & indian families in fish & chip shops & dairies.

          Mind you a lovely Maori did run a takeaway in our area for a while….but it went under. Weird as its replacement took off!

    • Rangi

      Keep an eye on Tuhoe & the Ureweras. Your master John Key is actually the first Prime Minister in history to give back a national park. – Ouch!!

      • Dave

        And, it will go to ruin in under 10 years if there is no more Governemnt funded handouts to keep it in good condition.

        Remember the Raglan Golf Course Rangi, oops, i mean gorse patch! History is a good teacher

      • spollyike

        Is that some sort of racist threat?

      • Ronnie Chow

        Why , is there a new dope plantation going in ?

    • williamabong

      We’ve already got one, we call it South Auckland.

  • johnbronkhorst

    “Parihaka’s Emily Bailey, her partner Urs Signer, Tame Iti and Te Rangikaiwhiria Kemara were found guilty of firearms charges in March last year following Operation Eight, the Urewera raids in 2007”
    You all know I am no friend to Helen Clarke or labour…but in this they were correct to act and made the correct response. If how ever they had the correct, well written laws in place, these guys, as in any other country in the world, would be serving very long sentences for training as terrorists.

    • Rangi

      Which country do you cite? By your logic, army cadets, sea cadets, territorial forces, hunting groups would be serving prison sentences. #Fail

      • spollyike

        Your idol John Hatfield wanted to shoot a politician himself, remember this:

        “Harawira later said that Labour Party leader Phil Goff was a “bastard” and “should be lined up against a wall and shot” for passing the Foreshore and Seabed Act.”

        • Rangi

          Are you really offended? Or merely nit-picking? Don’t pretend your sensitivities are damaged, your ignorant posts concern me more

      • rockape

        If these activities were held in the UK those involved would be arrested under the terrorism act. Thats one name for you!

        • Rangi

          Ummm they tried that here & the “crimes” didn’t meet the criteria – remember? So no, again, you are wrong…

          • rockape

            Hows that wrong .You asked for an example of were sensible laws allow the arrest of terrorists, I gave you one. Get out of your own mind before talking rubbish. The suggestion is the laws need changing so the police and the public can be protected when threats are made. It works in most countries. Try exercising your human rights in any airport in Europe ,the US australia by talking about bombs while boarding an aircraft!

          • Rangi

            You really are a simpleton aren’t you? Why state the obvious? The anti-terror laws here set quite well thought out criteria for them to be breached. This Ruatoki situation didn’t meet that criteria – its as simple as that.

          • johnbronkhorst

            You really are a fuckwit!!The only reason these bastards got off….was that the surveillance was deemed illegal because the law was POORLY written. Therefore their was no evidence after it had been deemed inadmissible in court. They got off on a TECHNICALITY…something the POMS and YANKS don’t have in this situation.

          • Rangi

            Bullshit! btw, in case you’re not aware, you’re using caps for emphasis again…
            Between this & the surveillance laws, you must be getting pretty pissed that no body seems to be able to get this right. And if it ain’t right, the benefit of the doubt must sure go with the defendant…which makes you look like a tool for getting upset about it

          • johnbronkhorst

            So you agree…it was a technicality that got them off, a gap in the law. Not what they did.

          • Rangi

            Again…
            1. How do we know what they did?
            2. Whatever they did didn’t meet the criteria for terrorism laws in this country.
            3. It’s not a technicality if you are not guilty of the crime you are charged.
            Fuck me…it’s like Im at a fucking kindergarten.

          • johnbronkhorst

            You can still find the videos on the net!

          • Rangi

            You can find lots of shit on the net – whats your point?

          • johnbronkhorst

            Are you truly that stupid?…You can view the footage for yourself!!!

          • Rangi

            Fine, I’ll play – shoot me some links & lets decide together if it meets “terrorist” criteria shall we? What should our criteria be?

          • johnbronkhorst

            Do your own research you lazy bastard. Then maybe you’ll understand the point people are making here. You come on here with no ACTUAL argument of facts to make one. Then expect us to make an argument with proof to refute your dribblings which have no basis in fact!

          • Rangi

            hahaaa that was the only reaction possible for you wasn’t it? You just got played son

          • Ronnie Chow

            According to one defendant, the goal was to train local Tuhoe to provide security for forestry operations.

          • rockape

            Thats why National are changing the Law. Next time the evidence will be admissable and Hongi and his brown brothers will be in Jail for terrorism.

          • Mr_Blobby

            No it was badly written and not intended for local terrorists.

          • Rangi

            No – the circumstances weren’t there so the police commuted the charges to arms offences. You’re getting confused with our surveillance laws…

          • Mr_Blobby

            No I did read the Police affidavit, before it was suppressed.

      • Phill

        I was in the sea cadets. They never taught me how to throw molatov cocktails….#Fail

        • Rangi

          Hahaaa you were in sea cadets! #Fag

      • johnbronkhorst

        By my logic, you fuckwit, army cadets, sea cadets, territorial forces, hunting groups are SANCTIONED/LICENCED by the govt..Which is VOTED into power by the citizens…..these CLOWNS were none of these things…THAT is the difference!!!!

        • Rangi

          No they’re not, you’re full of shit. There is no license regime. Its just what people like to do in their spare time fucktard. FYI there’s plenty of militant hicks running around playing white trash warrior in southland. No news on those confederate wannabes.

          • johnbronkhorst

            Ignorant fuckwit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            Hunters must have a gun licence…..by the govt. via the police!!
            Territorials are SOLDIERS in the NEW ZEALAND ARMY and are therefore approved and governed by the NZ Govt.
            Cadets are AFFILIATED to relevant armed service Air, Navy and Army which are in turn sanctioned by the NZ Govt.

      • Mr_Blobby

        Have a bit of a read of the Police affidavit and a look at some of the suppressed video footage and then tell me how they compare with army cadets, sea cadets, territorial forces, hunting groups or the average working class New Zealander. You are either thieving Maori elite or malcontent maori radical. Now fuck off.

      • Sponge

        That is one of the most stupid posts I have ever seen on WOBH. Ye gods man grow a brain!

    • williamabong

      If the tattooed dumpling was teaching them the only thing they would learn is how to eat pies, and spout hatred.

      • unsol

        Very true. Who was the other big fat guy in the footage? His footprint would have no doubt had a huge negative impact on the forest growth…hate to think of the damage he did to the tree roots!

  • unsol

    The raids were totally justified – they were acting like a bunch of bloody militants. Unless you are playing paintball, who the hell runs around the bush like that? With real firearms & guns? They were up to something – make no mistake about that.

    It just annoys me that they didn’t all get charged & prosecuted.

    Incidentally what I find the most ironic & laughable is how middle class well educated kids can grow up & behave so stupidly. That they take hair brained schemes literally & start to live their life by them. I knew the Bailey kids – not so much Emily, but definitely her crazy brothers. I don’t know what the hell went wrong with them….but it started at uni with the protesting (they & their friends were into it – some even got arrested & later compensation for being thrown into jail for trespassing on parliamentary grounds), defacing election signs, running around like a bunch of freaks in bare feet (I mean who needs shoes) & being part of groups like Greenpeace.

    How the fuck they ended up being so retarded I don’t know – they weren’t even studying arts degrees!!!

    So I wish the media wasn’t being so spineless – lets call this what it was: a justified raid on a bunch of militant brown & white mother fuckers & make sure the police take an even harder line again.

    • Mr_Blobby

      Yes and didn’t Tame and co fight hard to have most of the evidence suppressed.

    • Honki

      Bollocks. The raid was an example of little NZ putting up its hand saying ” hey you big guys, look at us, we’ve got terrorism too!!”

      • unsol

        No it was about the police doing their job & making sure little bludging wankers did not get the chance to make good on their threats & so-called training (if you could call it that – hilarious footage).

        • rockape

          Yes and 5 years later these big rough and tough trainees are still traumatised by their treatment. Just as well they stick to home invasions and sticking up littuld piss their pants.

          • Rangi

            Regale us with tales of how the Police raided your house & held loaded firearms to your face one minute after being asleep. Please inform us of your noble reactions…

          • unsol

            He shouldn’t have to – you are always judged by the company you keep & well, in my community & no doubt rockies we don’t tend to run around the bush playing militant soldier with molotov cocktails & shotguns

            Perhaps you should have thought about that before you decided to be an activist. You call it terrifying, we call it karma.

          • Rangi

            The IPCA unreservedly disagree with you.

          • unsol

            No you are wrong. Go back, re-read the report then say that with a straight face; they stated the raids were justified.

          • Rangi

            They thought so – but what is not in doubt is their methods were OTT. A visit from the local constable would have got better results.

          • Phill

            in your vast experience at fighting against possible terrorists…
            open your mind real wide now….and immagine if the skinheads in ChCh were doing this stuff…you would be the 1st to complain about it….probably opening with the race card as thats all you know…..
            change the record mate and get with the program…its not 1840 anymore….

          • Rangi

            Same method – send the local constable to gauge what’s going on, any further sophistication than that is just plain grandstanding.

          • Dave

            Yeah Rangi, that worked real well in Kawhia didn’t it, FAIL. Then the whole Maori community stonewalled and sided with the little scumbag. In their own interests, someone should have stated, well, that little scumbag Jackie is just a bad egg, he needs to sort himself out.

          • rockape

            Even more kind Rangi. We could put an ad in the local paper, no better, on TV as the reading ability of most Maori is a bit suspect. Give the date of the raid and say all weapons should be handed in at the local police station before that date. Yes that should work.

          • Rangi

            As it happens, that would have been less embarrassing for our police force than this fuck up.

          • grumpy

            …I was just thinking that….page hits a bit slow today?

          • unsol

            I’m thinking Rangi is Gayguy is Kosh is Travis……what better way to spark up the page views then by using one of your own as a devils advocate….you heard if here first :-)

            But who cares eh – it worked, we’re here & this is a very pertinent topic!

          • grumpy

            Clues – similar syntax, only appear one at a time, one issue ponies.
            You win.

          • Honki

            So…. by that warped logic if one of your mates or neighbours murders someone then you are up for an automatic police raid too. Again you guys just arent seeing the wood for the trees. This isnt about a pathetic so called “terror training camp”. It is about the increasing abuse of power by police and government.

            Terrorism is the new catchword for governments now. It is being used as an excuse to slowly but surely degrade the human rights of all of us.

            I could suggest that you do some research into the encroaching police state around the world, and how false flag terrorism and social conditioning by media is making the job of controlling all of us way too easy for over-reaching government.

          • unsol

            Like I said, one is judged by the company they keep – operative word being “if” so if ones friends are dangerous or perceived to be dangerous then they should expect the police to treat them with suspicion – just like they do with say those who have escaped on bail & are considered dangerous. Same kind of thing.

            Of course MY friends wouldn’t go and murder anyone, nor would they make threats against people or run around in the bush with shotguns & molotov cocktails.

            That’s because I know how to choose good friends.

          • Ronnie Chow

            Happened to me . The cops threw rocks through the windows to wake me up , as I walked out the door into spotlights I was thrown to the ground , 7 guns pointed at me . The cop kneed me , breaking a rib . He said if I’d had anything in my hand he would have shot me .

            All that from a phone call with wrong information .

            Was I traumatized ? Not in the slightest . Even had to pay to fix my windows .

          • Rangi

            Thanks, kind of helps my point tho…

          • Ronnie Chow

            Not if the whole lot are asking for money in redress . Now if they were asking for a formal apology , that would be from the heart . Real New Zealanders would be insulted by the offer of money .

          • Ronnie Chow

            When there’s a whiff of cash , big guys have hurt feelings too .

    • spollyike

      Some of their politicians are just as bad remember Hone said this after Bin Laden was killed:

      “Harawira said that the former leader of Al Qaeda Osama bin Laden’s actions were those of “a man who fought for the rights, the land and the freedom of his people” and that people should not be damning him but mourn him.”

      • manuka416

        It’s always “their” and “they”, with you spollyike. You categorise people by race, and your racism blinds you. How about you try to be a New Zealander, and see people as New Zealander’s, first?

        • Patrick

          But Harawira’s racism is acceptable is it?

          • Rangi

            No – but it is completely irrelevant.

          • Patrick

            Only irrelevant when it is a whitey being abused is it?

          • Rangi

            No – Hone is irrelevant

          • Patrick

            Sounds good to me, let’s hope his constituents see it the same way at the next election.

          • Rangi

            In favour of whom?

          • manuka416

            No, it’s not. I’ve never defended Hone Harawira, I don’t like the bloke – because he’s racist.

            Why did you ask that question?

          • Patrick

            Because you highlight spolly as being a racist – you cannot deny Harawira is one can you? Pity he doesn’t get called out more often for his behaviour obviously plenty within Maoridom sympathise with his opinion, based on those that vote for him.

          • manuka416

            I’ve never denied that Harawira is one. Mana got 1.08% of the party vote, and he got just 41.3% of the vote in his own electorate. I don’t think he’s that popular a man.

          • Patrick

            18000 voters – 8000 ticked the box for Hone, next highest was 1100 votes behind. That would suggest plenty support Hone & his racist separatist ideals.

          • Rangi

            That’s democracy for you. Only, of course, it does not support your view of Hones motives & therefore the support you wrongly associate with those motives.

          • Patrick

            Hone is a separatist, racist anti colonialist Marxist. You are correct I do not support his views or motives. They are long since discredited the world over.

          • Rangi

            I don’t know anyone who is in favour of colonising as a concept. Why do people on this site love that term “Marxist”? Its like a swearword used for emphasis rather than meaning. Hone is no separatist, he speaks for his constituency as any MP does. He is brash, rough around the edges but he certainly is no one to be weary of. Frankly, it’s sickening how people still use his gaffe as a barometer of current Maori sentiment. It simply is not the case.

          • Patrick

            Rangi, I take your point re Maori sentiment, however there are enough in agreement to vote 8000 times (out of a possible 18000) for him that is 44%. I know it’s a spelling mistake above but I am weary of him, tired of his bullshit. As for being in favour of colonisation – what’s done is done, there is no turning the clock back on that one & marxism should be a swearword there is not a country the world over that has prospered through marxism.

          • Mr_Blobby

            8000 votes I thought it was like 46000 voters per electorate. What percentage voted and how many voters are there in Maori seats. 8000 is hardly a mandate for anything let alone a seat in parliament

          • spollyike

            Maori and Mana combined didn’t even get as many votes as the Conservative party, but never-the-less are pulling the governments strings and getting plenty of media attention for their crackpot issues

          • Mr_Blobby

            Race based seats have to go there is no room in a modern democracy for race or religious seats.

          • manuka416

            The Maori seats are a legacy of segregation politics. The seats were established in the 1860’s – not as a special option for Maori, but the only option (very few Maori were allowed to vote in European electorates because of individual land-ownership eligibility rules). It was feared that providing Maori access to the European electorates would give Maori too much voice in politics – with Maori seats/electorates, representation was restricted to 4 MP’s and the European MP’s wouldn’t need to consider Maori concerns. In the early years, candidates for the Maori seats were chosen by the Pakeha parliament. Up until 1975, people of more than half-Maori descent weren’t allowed to vote in a European electorate, and people of less than half-Maori descent weren’t allowed to vote in a Maori electorate.

            And we talk about race-based politics today?

            It’s a bit rich to for people to see Maori seats as a special entitlement, when the Maori vote and political representation was purposely segregated by the NZ parliament for political benefit.

          • manuka416

            Give me a break. Mana pulling the government strings? That’s a bit crackpot. Do you seriously think that Maori politicians are steering this country?

          • Patrick

            Cannot find the information I had earlier – it was stats off Government site but Wiki has some information, I suspect the Wiki figures are incorrect as they actually show it in an even worse light.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Te_Tai_Tokerau_by-election,_2011

            Sorry – found it, another Wiki site, maybe the stats require further investigation

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Te_Tai_Tokerau

          • manuka416

            Harawira won the Te Tai Tokerau seat, that’s all the mandate needed to be a representative in parliament. I’d rather he not be there, but that’s democracy.

          • Dave

            I agree with you there Manuka, and probably 90% of NZ does not want him there.

          • onelaw4all

            “Why do people on this site love that term “Marxist”? Its like a swearword used for emphasis rather than meaning.”

            Its meaning and perjorative use are not mutually exclusive,,, to rational human beings that is..

          • manuka416

            8000? There’s more people at a second division rugby match!

          • Patrick

            Agree, & based on that he gets a disproportionate amount of attention doesn’t he?

          • manuka416

            Only because we feed off sensationalism and controversy, and we like to feed our stereotypes. People just love justifying their hate/bigotry/racism with a, “see? Told you they’re all like that,” whenever an idiot like Harawira does something stupid. And the MSM just love to wind people up. Where do you think spollyike gets all her anger from?

          • Patrick

            I agree re the stereotypes, Harawira may be motivated by the attention he receives but if other Maori leaders do not slap him then how can you blame the general populace for believing his views to be that of the majority of Maori? To me it seems the Harawira’s have had a disproportionate say on matters Maori for many years.

          • Dave

            Hmmmm a victory in a electorate with a majority of voters on some form of government funded benefit, I strongly suspect a lot voted for Harawhira as a means to get the handouts. Put Hone in a more mixed electorate such as Tauranga, he would be unlikely to get 1100 votes, put him in an electorate on the north shore he would be lucky to get 11 votes!!

          • Rangi

            If he did that, he would be a carpetbagger. Shit example

          • Muffin

            I think it’s awful that beneficiaries get to vote.

        • spollyike

          ONE LAW FOR ALL!

          • onelaw4all

            Yellllllllo!

  • Mr Sackunkrak

    I think the whole of Ruatoki wanting compensation is quite funny. Their fucking benefits should be compensation enough for their sorry arses.

    • unsol

      Absolutely – these people, including the Bailey kids (one of the twins may have a job by now I think though – woohoo, sound the sirens!), have done nothing but bludge since they left high school.

      They are overindulged wastrels.

    • BJ

      As benefits are to support those down on their luck I suggest it will be appropriate to deduct or stop said benefit up to the value of any claim + court and legal aid costs if they are ‘lucky’ enough to receive compensation.

    • rockape

      They would be entitled to damage to their property. Would anyone actualy be able to tell the damage the police did to that they do themselves after a skinfull of piss and a few splifs. Traumatised hids in Maoridom are traumatised by their drunken abusive parents,do we do anything about that until they get around to killing them,NO!

      • Mr_Blobby

        The bus full of school children only had one passenger.

  • Patrick

    Peel back the layers of the onion – at the end of the day this is exactly what Maori in NZ stand for – they want separatism, they want racist politics, they are anti colonial marxists. That is why the likes of Harawira resonate with their supporters. We think he is being radical, they think he is entirely logical.

    • Rangi

      Harawira does not want separatism, or racist politics. Neither do Maori generally, but of course, any system has its fringes…

      • Patrick

        Really? He wants Maori sovereignty. Is that not separatism? He racially abuses white mofo’s – is that not racist. Are you claiming Harawira is the fringe? Get real, he is mainstream, the fringe is much more radical than even Hone Harawira.

        • Rangi

          No he doesn’t! How can you claim he’s mainstream? And no, he is hardly radical – Jesus Christ, why don’t you start afresh with an actual understanding of what’s going on!?! Start with the fact that no matter how much treaty settlements cost this country, Maori will always, in every single case, pay twice. Once via taxes, the other with buying back something the Crown has agreed, they already own. Pretty quickly, the actual freeloaders reveal themselves.

          • spollyike

            Yep, great bloke that John Hatfield. His family even changed their name from Hatfield to Harawira because they are in denial about their racial identity.

          • Dave

            Thats because he/they saw money in it, lots of White mother fuckers money, and it worked, he is still at the trough.

          • Patrick

            So what you are saying is treaty settlements will never be full & final? Now you want compensation for the compensation?

            As for Harawira – you don’t view him as radical but many do & that is my point. The fact he convincingly won a by election would suggest he has plenty of support for his separatist & racist views. Below is one of his most infamous statements – you tell me if this is racist or not:

            Gee Buddy, do you believe that white man bull**** too do you? White motherf***ers have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bullshit….And, quite frankly, I don’t give a shit what you or anyone else thinks about it. OK

            If a whitey politician had said similar he would have lost his job & be pushing a broom in some factory somewhere

          • Rangi

            All I know is that, he followed Turia’s example – he backed himself, democratically got the mandate of a respectable electorate and started his own movement. Can you afford the same respect to Brash? Banks? Hell no – and btw Im only pointing out that the current system is a blatant & horrible disadvantage to Maori. Do you acknowledge that noting my observation above?

          • spollyike

            Rangi, can you genuinely explain why the current system is so disadvantageous to part-maori? No one i know has been able to explain why to me, and i am genuinely interested in finding out.

          • Rangi

            “no matter how much treaty settlements cost this country, Maori will always, in every single case, pay twice. Once via taxes, the other with buying back something the Crown has agreed, they already own.” – Its important this be understood if we are to find a happy way forward.

          • spollyike

            I still can’t get my head around that statement sorry.

          • Rangi

            Don’t be sorry, you have choices – 1.continue making an ass of yourself by commenting on issues you clearly don’t understand. 2.Educate yourself so you can contribute & advance the discussion 3.Fuck off & play with yourself

          • unsol

            It’s because it is complete & utter nonsense indicative of someone who has no knowledge of public or social policy or even able to comprehend basic maths.

          • spollyike

            I liken this conversation to drawing out poison, trying to find out how their mind works. It’s not often we have a few maori racists posting at the same time is it. It’s quite entertaining really;)

          • unsol

            I am not sure if they are Maori or racist, but they are definitely ignorant!

          • williamabong

            And the moment anyone dares to say anything other than their point of view they get tagged as a racist, I guess it’s just the inability to accept any form challenge, one eyed brown bigots

          • Rangi

            Confusing viewpoint given the many invitations to debate…

          • Rangi

            Oh the gift of detecting someones ethnicity through a computer, what other vodoo are you capable of?

          • spollyike

            You mock voodoo but believe in taniwha, that’s just sad.

          • Rangi

            You have no idea what I believe in, but by all means, demonstrate your ignorance once more…

          • manuka416

            Equally, you could say that many pakeha racists are posting at the same time.

          • Rangi

            Care to elaborate on where my logic is faulty?

          • Rangi

            …Im waiting…

          • Rangi

            …………Still waiting unsol…(or anybody for that matter)

          • James

            A happy way forward would be for the whole Maori apartheid to stop and allow us whiteys to be treated as equals – rather than forced to toil and pay for special privileges. But that ain’t going to happen.

          • Patrick

            Treaty settlements usually consist of an agreed monetary sum to compensate for loss & an agreed settlement of land – where is the buying back component you speak of?

          • Rangi

            You said it yourself numbnuts “agreed monetary sum” – where do you think that comes from? Happy wishes??

          • Patrick

            The monetary sum flows from the crown to Maori, you seem to think Maori pay the crown?
            In its’ entirety that monetary sum comes from the hard working taxpayers contributions. Of which Maori make up a tiny percentage. 12% of the population, 33% unemployment & most employed in low skilled & therefore low paid jobs. Vast majority will not be net taxpayers due to welfare, working for families etc.
            Therefore “numbnuts” it is Hone’s white mofo’s that are paying.

          • Rangi

            No its not! – Obviously, Maori are paying twice! Throw as many bullshit statistics as you want, there’s no escaping it…

          • Patrick

            Then please demonstrate how Maori pay twice – I don’t follow your logic. Just show the logic behind your reasoning, don’t worry about the figures at this stage.

          • spollyike

            I can’t follow that logic either. Maybe it’s because IWI economics is different to NZ economics?

          • Rangi

            Again…I contribute via taxes, to a fund set up to settle treaty matters. The Crown agree that section x belongs to Hapu A – Govt has to buy back a section x off farmer Bill, it does so using that fund. It is then handed back to Hapu A along with an agreed cash settlement. – Now, in that simple scenario, I am a Hapu member who has paid into a fund to 1. buy section x from Farmer Bill & 2 Pay settlement for something the Crown agrees is mine anyway. The question is, is this acceptable?

          • Patrick

            Following your logic – you got section X (as a member of the Hapu) and you got a cash payout (as compensation). That sounds like double dipping to me. Pay once receive twice.
            You would be the minority in terms of tax if you are indeed a net contributor – Maori or not the majority of Kiwis are recipients in some form or another & as I said earlier the very fact the majority of employed Maori still are low paying jobs suggests they are recipients rather than contributors. Using the above logic they are therefore triple dipping. Welfare, land & cash payouts.

          • Rangi

            Wrong, I’m buying something the Crown has said I already own using my own money – twice (purchase & settlement $$), for an amenity I should have always had rights to but am only now able to enjoy.

          • Patrick

            The portion you contribute is bugger all, it is funded by the taxpayers of NZ – of which your own contributions are a tiny component. Like I say Maori are 12% of the population, 33% are unemployed, most Maori are net recipients of taxes, therefore like I said it is Hone’s mofo’s that pay.

          • Rangi

            My contribution is more than most – how can you say its tiny? Indeed, I think you are underestimating the cumulative value Im talking about.

          • Patrick

            Is your contribution approaching the billion dollar mark?
            I also consider my contribution to be substantial but in the greater scheme of things you & I could drop off the face of the earth & Bill English would not be forced to revise his budget.

          • Rangi

            True – but that would not resolve the issue.

          • Patrick

            The issue being that Treaty Settlements will never be full & final? Or that nothing seems to improve for the average Maori in NZ, despite the billions of wealth moved from the general populace to Maoridom? Or do you have other issues to foist upon everyone?

          • Mr_Blobby

            It is well established that Maori take more out of the Government than they pay in Taxes. A net economic cost to the Country.
            Like most negative statistics it is kept quiet, like maori making up 50% of the mental health stats.

          • rockape

            Well I dint benefit from that land yet I am still paying for it!

          • Sponge

            Really? “The Man”should be taxing you then you rich prick!

          • rockape

            Do You have any white blood ? Or are you brown all the way through?

          • Rangi

            None of either – my blood (as far as I know) is red…

          • Ronnie Chow

            I have it on good account that your taxes went to three dope-smoking sickness beneficiaries in Wellington .

            Source ; http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2451/how-does-marijuana-cause-the-munchies

          • Phill

            They dont buy it back..its given to them…jeez rangi you dumb!

          • Rangi

            No you are wrong, there’s always cash…always!

          • Phill

            Name one settlement where Maori have paid to get land back from the crown. Every one i hear about is Maori getting X block of land, Rights to stop anyone else using/developing it, and a huge sum of money. Yet we dont hear of Maori helping themselves….just constant winging about how hard done by you all are.
            Are you on drugs?…dont be smoking that puha untill at least school is out Rangi….
            One NZ….We are all in this waka together…

          • Rangi

            That’s more like it! – FYI, the Govt has to make good the loss of land to the former landowner, this happens under wraps but rest assured, it does happen and it is tax payer funded.

          • spollyike

            Is there land under Lake Taupo, the bay of plenty lakes, etc?

          • williamabong

            More seperatist bullshit from another brainwashed idiot, time politicians stood up to marty and told them to fuck off you’ve had all your getting, and if you don’t like it tough shit, remember you pricks are immigrants just like the rest of us, find someone else to bleed dry.

          • Rangi

            So tell me, how is my logic faulty?

          • williamabong

            Nothing said about your logic, if subscribing to a bullshit fairy-tale is your game plan you’re going in th right direction, you’re an immigrant just like the rest of us, time you got your head round that bro and moved on,

          • Rangi

            That’s not an answer! What is my “bullshit fairy-tale” game plan? Pretend you’re a politician wanting my vote, then answer.

          • Dave

            Except William, those immigrants you refer to solved one issue, they ate the previous owner/occupiers!! Hmmmmmm :)

          • spollyike

            Fortunately for us the cannibals then ate the French instead of the English!

          • Ronnie Chow

            How can ‘Maori’ start with nothing and pay twice ? Where does the money come from?

          • Dave

            More Handouts, Tanawhai, inter tribal loan agreements ??

          • Patrick

            Good on him for backing himself but it only reinforces my point. He won a by election by over 1100 votes – just goes to show there are plenty that support his racist separatist views.

            Sorry you lost me re your statement above – are you referring to free loaders? If so I am not sure what you allude to. However answer this for me if you can – when will the average Maori see the benefit from the billions that have been paid in treaty settlements? Around where I grew up they still live in shitholes of houses that have never been upgraded. No wonder their children have poor health & education living in such poor environments. Why have no Maori funded schemes been put in place to improve this? There could be Maori funded apprenticeships for builders & sparkies & plumbers. There could be Maori funded scholarships for Engineers. Why do the suits at the top suck up all the loot & those at the bottom get naff all? Afterall I thought treaty settlements would advantage all Maori not just the educated elite. The houses down the road from me haven’t changed in over 40 years, except now they are inhabited by those running tinnie houses. Hardly seems right, in fact I would say they have gone backwards in 40 years.

          • Rangi

            The only answer is, keep an eye on Tuhoe. The settlement & what happens on the governance side will be fascinating to watch unfold. It covers off pretty much all you have raised (for that region)

          • Patrick

            Perhaps but the original settlement process was started by Doug Graham back in the early 1990’s, nothing has changed for generations of Maori, my guess is the elite of Tuhoe will get some flash suits & travel to & from Wellington. Your average Maori in that region will carry on as they are today. Except they will glorify their wonderful leaders who in reality are just living large at their expense.

          • Rangi

            I think you have just described the theme of advancement of every civilisation in history.

          • Patrick

            Then while you are on your evolutionary journey why don’t you smarten up & learn from history, take the odd shortcut instead of repeating the mistakes of the past?

          • Rangi

            Depart from your theme of idealism for a sec & please tell me how?

          • Patrick

            I don’t deal in idealism – only reality. You could start by holding your leaders & representatives to account, ask why the lot of the average Maori has not improved despite the billions of dollars of taxpayers money that the Crown has paid.

          • Dave

            Excellent point Patrick, where is the leadership, the role models, the vision, the future, apart from WINZ or the inn at Mt Eden.

          • Rangi

            But it has improved, think of NZ 30 yrs ago to now. Deprivation & its effects aren’t as pernicious. Education & general well being standards are up. There’s no denying this despite the constant state of panic the media would have us in.

          • Patrick

            Yep, pat them on the head & tell them they don’t know how lucky they are eh Rangi. I am sure there would be a riot if a Politician was on a Marae & promised them in 30 years they would have a new roof on their house & the kids will stay at school until Form 5 before going on the dole. Bugger all has changed – except for the Maori elite that is. The process of change is far too slow & there is plenty that could be done to improve the welfare of Maori – warm, dry housing being one.

          • Rangi

            Warm dry housing is a problem for a whole bunch of people – Bad example. You seem to have alot of answers, care to be more practical & offer up some assistance at the local Marae?

          • Patrick

            Yeah but Maori now have the financial resources, warm dry housing should be a given. As for me offering assistance on the local Marae – how do you think this would play out – whitey rocking up on a Marae telling Maori how they spend their money? That’s going to have a happy ending (for me) ain’t it? I would be handed my arse & told to f off. Maori have to demand more from their own leaders Rangi otherwise nothing changes.

          • Rangi

            Fair enough…no argument there. We should all expect our leaders to excel themselves for our benefit.

          • Patrick

            So we have found some common ground – on that note I will “retire” from the discussion. Enjoy the rest of your day Rangi.

          • Dave

            Rangi please check facts Again you are not correct Maori as a group have had more of the Government assistance through the state home improvement program and the ECCA scheme than any other group/culture. Furthermore they NOW get further funding under a grant scheme not available to non Maori Racist much!!! What Maori need is to Get up and fix their own homes, continuous handouts just reinforce the dependency.

          • Dave

            Rangi Im with Patrick. Nothing will change, I hope I am wrong, but i hold out ZERO hope. Years ago, a friend i went through school with, got a Maori loan at 3% (or less?) when i was paying a 10% mortgage, I was struggling, he also had a benefit for his wife and kids, i got nothing but he earn’t more than me. He received all kind of benefits just because he was Maori. Funny point, I worked my butt off, have made it reasonably well, you know, houses, car funds etc, he still lives in the same house, its almost 40 years old now, and almost completely derelict. Patrick is right, the change and drive must come from within. Good luck, I’m not holding my breath.

          • Phill

            so you voted agaist MMP then…?

          • BR

            “…..he backed himself, democratically got the mandate of a respectable electorate….”

            Racist maori electorates are anything but respectable or democratic.

            Bill.

          • Rangi

            I would remind you that Epsom is a racist electorate, but that member is currently before the courts facing fraud charges. Quite different from Hone’s situation Im afraid…C’mon Bill! you’re making this too easy!!

          • Patrick

            How is Epsom racist – are there laws saying Maori cannot purchase houses & vote in Elections? Or is it just chips on the shoulders at play? I cannot afford to buy there – maybe they discriminate against dumb white farm boys as well eh Rangi?

          • Dave

            PAtrick, of course most cant but houses in Epsom, the Government discriminates by keeping the HANDOUTS low enough to exclude some.

          • Patrick

            Vote for Russell & David Shearer – then we can all afford to live in Epsom! Len will be planning high rises to fit us all in no doubt.

          • Rangi

            Im using Bill’s logic – ask him…

          • Patrick

            Why? There are no whites only legislated electoral representatives in NZ. There are however a number of Maori ones. To put it simply it is entirely feasible (and has happened) that a Maori could represent non Maori in parliament, right now it is highly unlikely that a whitey could stand in one of the Maori seats isn’t it?

          • Rangi

            Outdated modality owing its roots in skewing parliament in Pakeha favour, we all know this. But still, you are talking possibilities not facts.

          • Patrick

            One man one vote ain’t good enough for you Rangi?

          • spollyike

            Talk about greedy. Back in the good old tribal days, Rangi here wouldn’t have had a vote on anything unless he was the big chief.

          • Rangi

            Sorry, you lost me there…

          • Rangi

            Do you really want me to school you up on Maori electorates?? Save me some time please & wiki that shit…

          • Patrick

            Zimbabwe under Mugabe’s rule maybe? He did similar where only his supporters were allowed to vote, received UN supplied food as a reward – is that the sort of thing you are suggesting?

          • spollyike

            That’s the future Tuhoe Nation described right there.

          • Ronnie Chow

            You wrote ” current system is a blatant & horrible disadvantage to Maori.”

            What’s a Maori ?

          • Dave

            Disadvantage to Maori ? I am realizing how much more I could have had If I was maori. If only!!

          • Ronnie Chow

            You can be . Convert ! Join Mana for a token . Then blast the Whites for reversing the steep decline in population when Maori were eating themselves out of existence .
            Now thriving in all areas , modern Maori are ignoring the plight of their poorer and thicker brethren , passing the buck to the Whites .
            Go the Maori . The infusion of White blood has made you smarter and stronger . Throw away the grass skirts . You don’t see Whites running around in suits of armor .

          • spollyike

            Even a part-maori can’t define that. If they could the would be able to settle on a blood quantum but that would of course be detrimental politically wouldn’t it.

          • Rangi

            Would you really like me to tell you? or would finding out for yourself be a stretch of your educational know how…

          • Sponge

            No.

          • unsol

            Maori pay taxes? Care to quantify how many Maori are net taxpayers – you know, the group of people that actually do pay tax because they don’t get benefits, WFF, grants etc from the State or work in the public service….

          • Rangi

            Nice generalising, I don’t care to try & quantify Maori tax contribution but take me as an example, I can assure you I pay the equivalent of 2.5 X average NZ’ers tax, I am Ngati Awa & Tuhoe. My taxes supplement non-Maori freeloaders. Suffice to say, I am not alone in this conundrum.

          • unsol

            That is ludicrous!!! No, your taxes cover your cost on the State. That is all.

            Unless of course you are paying $6.5billion or so in taxes each year to account for all Maori adults receiving benefits, assistance & WFF each year…..the median income for Maori adults is about $15k

            Non Maori freeloaders – minuscule compared to the cost of Maori on this country. And no I don’t excuse them either – WFF is a blight on this country’s growth. But the bulk of assistance is being paid to Maori, closely followed by PI. And that is without even going into the cost of CYFs, the courts & corrections.

          • spollyike

            I’ve never understood how modern part-maori can refer to themselves as being two different tribes. Wouldn’t have worked back in the old days when these tribes were enemies, but i’m sure it works great for double dipping the historical/mythical treaty claims eh bro?

          • manuka416

            Well, it’s a bit like me saying my roots are English, Scottish, French, German, Maori, etc. I’m a New Zealander, but I acknowledge my heritage – those ties are important.

          • spollyike

            When do we ever hear a tribalist proudly acknowledging their non-maori, European heritage? All we hear about is the evil colonists.

          • Rangi

            Stop being evil then, you’ve been stellar at fulfilling the stereotype.

          • manuka416

            That’s probably more of a reflection of what makes up your reading material. There are plenty of Maori who are proud of their pakeha heritage.

          • Rangi

            What you refuse to understand about Maoridom would fill a friggin library…

          • spollyike

            All that AVATAR crap, right?

          • Dave

            Sorry Rangi, I consider Harawira the most racist prick in NZ. He gets away with things I couldn’t even think of. Take a look through history my friend, some have touched on it above. How would feel if John Key called Maori “Black Mother fuckers”. Hmmmm not acceptable in reverse is it Rangi.

            Its about 25 years past time, NZ Maori learnt to stand on their own two feet, stop sucking off the tax payers of NZ, STOP whinging and get on with integrating NZ, ONE NZ Rangi!

          • spollyike

            That’s for real.

            For a bunch so called warriors they sure act like a bunch of cry baby’s most of the time.

            Maybe the Moriori’s were useful to the maori after all – to change their nappies and tuck them in at night there-there!

            Maori need to grow up and grow some real Mana, not the racist bullshit Hatfield stands for.

          • manuka416

            Hone is a racist prick. Are you one too?

          • spollyike

            ONE LAW FOR ALL!

          • onelaw4all

            Yes?

          • Rangi

            I see what you did there – nice!

          • manuka416

            You and Hone are two eggs from the same carton. He hates Pakeha, you hate Maori. But you’re both racial haters – just from different ends of the spectrum.

          • spollyike

            That’s where you are wrong i don’t hate Maori (btw there are no Maori, just part-maori just as i am part norwegian and part scottish etc, i don’t go around calling myself norwegian or scottish). Unlike New Zealander’s like these who call themselves maori, i call myself a NZ’er and unlike some of these part-maori i am proud to do so. I don’t hate maori, but i do hate the samll percentage of part-maori that have planted the seeds of hate towards NZ’ers of british decent. Our ancestors maori and non-maori built this country together but over the past 30 years or so the current political generation of these activists has been slowly destroying NZ and the proud nation it was. I want one law for all, no special rights for people who may only be 1/32th of a certain race (and even though they may be over 50% european still call themselves maori as if they are full-blooded). No Manuka i don’t hate people with maori blood that is ridiculous, but i hate with a passion (just as i hated the white south africans who made the blacks second class citizens) any NZ’er who for pure greed wants to separate the races and create different rules for one quasi-ethnic group. I hate the part-maori agenda of biculturalism as all it does is misguidedly promote separatism, both on a personal level and a legislative one. It also promotes a victim mentality which some seem to see as a license to act violently or think they have some excuse for not being upstanding proud NZ citizens. I hate all the revisionist history and reinterpretation of a treaty that was created to protect maori and give them the unprecedented privilege of becoming instant subjects of the greatest empire in history (when the roman empire was at it’s peak, civilizations wanted to become part of it, just as when the maori saw the benefits of the british way of life they too wanted to be a part of it). Since then, a grudge held by those whose land was rightly confiscated (due to breaching the treaty by making war on the crown i.e. treason) have twisted words and taken advantage of the good will of the descendants of those early british settlers. For breaching the treaty the crown could have held them to account for treason or rightfully rendered the treaty void with much worse implications for maori. But instead they confiscated land in the same way a parent confiscates a toy from a naughty child that won’t play nicely with the other children, and in return the maori got to keep the treaty valid.

            I think i am very very different from Hone, Manuka.

          • manuka416

            You’re not different, you hate equally. Hone hates the White MoFos that have raped and pillaged the land (his foolish words), and you hate the Maori activists, and other Maori, with a passion. He’s tugging one end of the race-hate rope, and you’re tugging the other.

            If you truly hate any NZer that, for pure greed, wants to seperates the races and create different rules for different ethnic groups, then you would hate what was done to Maori since the mid-1800s, and you would support fair and reasonable redress. But you don’t hate what was done..

            You say you hate biculturalism, yet NZ is a multi-cultural nation – made up of Maori, Pakeha, and other immigrants. What you really mean is that you hate the Maori aspect of NZ culture. You hate the fact people align themselves to their Maori heritage, even when their Maori bloodlines are thin.

            You are the same as him – just different ends of the spectrum.

          • Rangi

            You’ll note this is a centre-right blog where people routinely practice exclusion & elitism…Is this now not permissable?

          • Dave

            Come on Rangi thats weak. Answer the points, deflection is surrender. I think you will find here most support an equal state.

            As to elitism, yes i support that, if elite is keeping my own hard earn’t cash and not passing it to others who refuse to or cant be bothered working. Yup, then I’m Elite i guess.

          • Phill

            Got news for ya buddy…you taxes supliment a lot of Maori freeloaders too…..and PI…and European and maybee even a few asian.
            Best you put the racist card back in your pocket if your going to talk like that.If I said that my taxes supported Maori freeloaders, you would be all over it. now STFU!

          • Rangi

            Should I bother pointing you to the plethora of comments on WOBH where Maori get dealt to for being bludgers? This can not possibly be surprising to you…

          • Dave

            Rangi, go look at the state expenditure, the numbers (ratio) in prisons, etc etc etc the racist handouts and entitlements. If the “bludger” hat fits, wear it. I can’t change that, but one by one, Maori can, but firstly, there needs to be a change in mindset, one of self responsibility, and getting rid of the entitlement attitude.

          • Rangi

            I don’t support entitlement for the sake of it, I do support proper addressing of treaty issues. This takes time & patience, remember, Maori have never sought anything in advance of what the treaty allows. Non-Maori have done quite well out of it all haven’t they?..

          • Dave

            Tell me how Rangi, one of my friends is a good hard working chap (happens to be maori) not that you would know it, his view was the police lost an opportunity at Te Urawera! Others I know, well most have spent a lifetime sucking the jesus out of WINZ and every other handout they could manage to get, their career has been one of extracting funds, if only they had studied dentistry, they could have made some contribution.

          • rrroberto

            yes they have, the scumbag lawyers on the gravy trains, includes at least two people in high places so better be careful

          • Dave

            Dont forget the reverse numbers, approx 2010 people of maori decent made up 51% of those in prison in NZ, yet made up only 15% of the population. that is from memory!! Its statistics, not a racist comment. Unfortunately its similar for welfare in straight $$$ terms, etc etc. Until Maori grasp the full issue, and decide to improve their lot, nothing is going to change.

          • spollyike

            To the tribalists quoting statistics that show them in a negative way is racist. For example stats on beating and killing kids, armed robbery, rape, etc etc…it’s all the fault of evil colonists don’t ya know.

        • johnbronkhorst

          Hone wants apartheid where moari’s own everything and the rest of us are surf’s, subservient to moari, in our own country. Implying that the rest of us are only good to do the work, pay the taxes so he and his ilk can live in the style they believe they are entitled to.

          • Rangi

            I think you mean “serfs” but OK, live your life with that needless fear, its your life to waste

          • johnbronkhorst

            Just read a few quotes from him and his mother and you will see!!!!

      • spollyike

        Who said this then:

        “Gee Buddy, do you believe that white man bull**** too do you? White motherf***ers have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries and all of a sudden you want me to play along with their puritanical bullshit….And, quite frankly, I don’t give a shit what you or anyone else thinks about it. OK?”.

      • spollyike

        Of course Hone wants separatism:

        “On 31 July 2010 Harawira told the New Zealand Herald he “wouldn’t feel comfortable” if one of his children came home with a Pākehā partner.”

      • Ronnie Chow

        No , but Parasites need a host , don’t they .

        I would have no hesitation in calling Rangatira Iwi parasites , to their respective faces .

        • Rangi

          Tough talk from behind a keyboard.

          • Ronnie Chow

            Starting with that crook Ngatata Love . You dissing me , bro ?

            Not to mention you yourself are behind the keyboard .

          • Rangi

            Don’t have to, you’re doing that yourself. bro.

          • Ronnie Chow

            Tough talk from behind a keyboard

            Kind of a pathetic insult , that one .

            Rangi , do you think that inflammatory comments from the Harawera’s in general , contribute to the rising crime rate against whites and tourists in Northland ?

  • In Vino Veritas

    “authoritarianism and separatism between the rich and powerful and the poor”. What a silly woman. Didn’t the Tuhoe just settle with the Crown for a lazy $170,000,000? I’d say they aren’t that poor. Well, the people at the bottom of the heap may well be, since the money given to them seems to get stuck with the people running the show….

    • unsol

      Middle class well educated – she is your perfect left winger. All academic, thinks she knows everything yet has actually never done anything constructive or useful in her life, but will still say we owe her and that she is entitled to piggy back off the taxes collected from our hard work.

      I am surprised Shearer & Norman et al haven’t already offered her a job. Or even Uncle Helen – Bailey is perfect UN material!

  • Mediaan

    These people don’t begin to understand racial discrimination.

    US golf star Garcia knows what it is. He has been apologising to Tiger Woods for several days now after his response to a light-hearted speech question at a function. Latest mournful Garcia apology: “I am sick. I am truly, truly sorry.”

    Real racial discrimination consists of implying people eat “fried chicken and collard greens” every night it appears.

    Fried chicken and greens?

    Really? Can we still offer it to guests? Sounds quite good to me.

    Race-sensitive speech just goes on getting more and more silly.

    Remember Paul Holmes being the subject of furious headlines for calling Tariana Turia “a bully” and “a confused bag of lard”?

    Never mind bad maths and science results; education authorities are going to have to add an extra year to the school curriculum, at this rate, so we can all learn what we are not to say.

  • Mr_Blobby

    “The party’s police spokesman, Dave Clendon, said it was not okay to “descend like masked ninjas” on a small community, adding that police thinking about the raids had not fundamentally changed.

    He believed racial discrimination played a part on the abuse of rights and illegal detention of innocent people.”

    Did I miss something is Dotcom Maori and the raid on him was racist. No because he is not Maori, has not been charged with anything, or found guilty of anything.

  • richard.b

    I have been waiting for the balance on this from MSM.
    An hour after the report was released yesterday The Travel / Theatre Blogger had a summary of what was justified and what was not.
    Why have we not seen any of this from gutter press…. Oh, thats right, I know.
    .
    Regards
    Richard B.
    LBIAFC

  • Rangi

    Sorry Cam – I can’t detect what point you’re trying to make…That Key inherited this mess? That it is actually a mess? That effort spent securing 4 convictions for bullshit charges & bullshit sentences was in fact that, bullshit?? That internal review found the Police had breached the law & were unreasonable – but that’s OK?? Or that contrition from those who have done wrong is too much to ask??

    “I was only following orders” quite rightly didn’t work at Nuremberg, accountability dictates that those who took part should also answer for their actions.Remember these are internal findings, why would anyone argue against prosecution of those responsible?

    • Patrick

      Agree – as long as the Politicians that signed off on the raids are held to account as well. High time Annette King, Helen Clarke, & Howard Broad were held to account for their decisions in this matter.

    • Sarrs

      I think at least part of the point is making people aware that the reporting on this saga has been pathetically unbalanced. Reading all that is available, we can all agree that the raid itself was justified – the tactical decisions made on the day were not. This is also occurred under the control of the previous government. The media are being disingenuous by allowing certain facts to dominate the story (illegality of the tactics during the raid) and not balancing it with the legal justification of the raid itself and failing to point out that John Key and the National Government are in no way responsible for this.

      The point towards the end of the post – why have Annette King and Helen Clarke not been asked to comment? Ultimately they have a significant level of responsibility for the outcome of this whole thing.

      And to answer a point made above, earlier, by someone – if it had been that awful Kyle Chapman and his racist ilk, I would hope that the police would act in the same manner. Sure, learn from their past mistakes, but definitely hit them as hard, if not harder. And if I was living next door to them at the time, I would comply with every request from the police so they would have no reason to think I was part of Kyle Chapman’s hideous hate group. I think that you would do the same.

  • Honki

    Forget all the racial bullshit and look at the real issue here. The raid, along with the Kim.com farce was police state tactics and is the thin end of the wedge for NZ. If we let this go, sooner or later (as is the case with social conditioning), we will start to see it as normal, and head very quickly towards an aggressive police state as the USA now is (they already are ordering our authorities around in the Kim.com case). You might all think it is ‘justified’ until things go as far as the same happening to you or someone you know. The NZ Police ACTED OUTSIDE THE LAW and someone needs to be prosecuted for it – its very simple. Civilians dont get away with breaking the law – why should our police force?

    • Dave

      Thats straight f….king Bullshit Honki. The whole lot of them should have been sent straight to jail, no $200, nothing. We need tougher laws in NZ, the whole lot, I for one dont care if some spy agency is watching me as they will be as bored as. But, in watching, its also watching over….. They also detect criminals. Put the lot of them in the slammer, cancel all benefits, and export them somewhere, anywhere!!

      • unsol

        AND……we are back on the same page. :-)

        • Dave

          :) its only thursday Unsol, hope all is well in your world. I know we will both sleep well tonight knowing our SPY agencies do their job, and our security forces keep NZ safe.

          Lets hope they get some real teeth soon to lock up any suspect that threatens to shatter the peaceful world we know. No matter what colour, creed or culture.

  • williamabong

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing, best thing the cops could have done would be to mortared the whole lot of them, problem solved.

    • Honki

      you’re a joker eh mate

      • williamabong

        You’re right I was kidding about the mortars, I meant hand grenades and high velocity rifles, better chance none escape.

  • rockape

    There was a recent armed offenders callout near a school. The teachers and kids were ordered to stay indoors by the police. Is that not illegal detention! The police were dealing with a situation were 26 illegal firarms including automatic weapons. It seems sensible to me to controll access to the area. There has been a recent case in NZ were a kid was used as a human shield to avoid perrer spray, Until we pass a law that says Good guys wear white hats and bad guys black hats then the police will have to use extraordinary methods to keep the two appart.

    • Rangi

      In the Ruatoki case, there was no immediate threat. Seems to me, that’s quite an important requirement…

      • spollyike

        Whatever…

        • Rangi

          Oh how cute…

          • unsol

            No flirting.

          • manuka416

            LOL

      • rockape

        If you know firearms are present then their is a treat! Far too many police get killed and attacked to make the assumption that if you went and asked these people who were training to kill. Could I have your gun please sir, that that would achieve the object. My solution would have been different. I would wait till they were creeping playing soldiers in the wood, shout Boo and when they fired have put them down like the dogs they are!

        • Rangi

          I would bet that firearms are present in more or less, every community in the country. By “far too many police get killed” you mean 9 in the last 30 years? – If saving lives is your mission, join the anti smoking lobby instead of playing a tough keyboard warrior

          • rockape

            Yes but most dont do military traing with them and most are leagally held. When they are not. the armed offenders squad go in ,with force, and take them away. You want one law for Maori and another for the white guy.

          • Rangi

            That’s the point – no farmers houses were raided, no houses in Able Smith st other than target houses. The residents there were treated manifestly different to those in the Ruatoki region. There was no “one law for all”. As the IPCA have declared.

          • Dave

            Target houses. I laughed my arse off Rangi, WTF are the police supposed to do, place an advert in local paper for the entire area saying, “so we do not discriminate, we will be searching EVERY house in a 30 km radius starting next week, this operation should be concluded by 2025”. Of course there was Target houses, every tactical person, even marketers and salespeople TARGET. I only wish the Police has a few marksman who were on target.

          • Rangi

            So why didn’t they close down Able Smith st & raid that whole area?

          • rockape

            I did my 22 Years as a warrior if you like. This sort of thing was my bread and butter!

  • rockape

    There are some similarities to Northern Ireland although in minature. We have a group of people prepared to fight for what the believe in and believe that fight puts them above the law. We have a group, including brown MPs who support them. We also have a percentage of the population that protect them by their silence to the authorities. We also have a judges who uphold the letter of the law despite possible on going consequences. What changed in NI, well it took a bomb at a rememberence day parade killing kids to change the attitude of the courts and the population. Maybe thats what we have to wait for here. The bomb that blows up some maori children and innocent people. Then there will be revulsion in the press and TV and much handwringing by the left. Its sad, we see it coming but Human rights stop us nipping it in the bud.
    So sad we are so dumb we dont learn from the mistakes of others.

    • Rangi

      Nice misdirection tactics, confuse everyone by raving like a lunatic.

      • rockape

        No Rangi the IRA were a quiet bunch who sat in pubs complaining about life. Then criminal gangs got involved using “The Cause” as cover and we ender up with killings and bombings on a large scale. I see too many similarities here. We have the Maori gangs inplace, we have a brown population that wouldnt shop one of their kind. The pieces are in place.

        • Rangi

          I don’t see any similarities at all! No body has died, there’s no special taskforce, there’s no “cause” – but if you are to be believed, there’s plenty of hysteria…go have a cry & come back ready to contribute sensibly

          • rockape

            You are going to be one of those who sit on their hands until we have those deaths. Sheel be right mate! These people were training with illegal automatic weapons, molotove cocktails etc. They were recorder making threats against people and institutions, how real does your threat need to be What body count makes it a threat in you mind. Cry Nah I will leave that to those brown soldiers that were so Traumatized!

      • rockape

        Misdirection, not! Its called learning from past mistakes.

  • Phil

    I quite like the Reservation idea so long as we can fence them in for good.

    Cut of their all benefits at the same time.

    Even better, cut off their attention supply through the soppy media….

  • Dave

    Side note: This debate is running so fast its impossible to keep up with reading!! Go WOBH

  • unitedtribes

    Whale would you take that photo of that cunt Iti off your notice board please He pisses me off so much I cant bear to see it

    • Rangi

      Man up pussy, its a photo…

      • Mr_Blobby

        No its an ugly photo. Of a fat little womble.

        • manuka416

          I’m reading that while looking at your avatar…

          • grumpy

            Local kaumatua call him “scribbleface”……..

          • Mr_Blobby

            Google Blob fish aka Mr Blobby

  • RightOfGenghis

    Gotta chuckle when I see Spolly and Rangi still slugging it out after 10 hours, trading insults but not a lot else. Whatever they’ve done to earn themselves so much spare time I want some of it ;)

  • Mr Sackunkrak

    Jesus wept, the keyboard warrior has been busy today.

    • Travis Poulson

  • I see King said sorry ( if she was National, Labour would want her to step down) but said the National Govt should say sorry? WTF
    I also notice Helen is number 21 in the world out of the top woman, her role has not changed, she is in charge of the money and her job is to give it away. Nothing changes???

  • PlanetOrphan

    I warned Tama Iti and his friends about having a gun license, you can not teach kids about guns unless you yourself are fully qualified to do so.

    If he can prove he was fully qualified to hold that weapon then he might have a case.
    But it’ll be very very hard to prove.

  • Brigid Marie Westwick

    something I found interesting and timed congruently was that an arts associate had just finished her submission for the “Magnum” Photographic exhibition regarding the Urewera Ranges and the living off the land rehabilitation program that works with the Marae and the Family Courts …. I think this group has resolve!… I even half expected some army cadets would feature in the repository of Tama Iti – discharging negotiation of levying warrants with police handbook updates.

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