Saturday General Debate

aaron gilmore utuWhat a week.  On Monday Aaron Gilmore resigned.  Having him “threaten” Cameron Slater with UTU was a gift from above.  The media blitz that followed where Cam was seen on TV and heard on Radio caused a huge surge in blog traffic.

The upside of this is that we’ve picked up a lot of new readers.  Yes, we can see you’ve come back to check the blog out since Monday, and we’re happy you’ve decided to add Whaleoil to your daily surfing routine.

Welcome to the blog, and welcome to the Saturday General Debate.  The floor is all yours.

 


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  • Muffin

    Nice artwork!

    • Don’t know who to credit – picked it off google

    • Sponge

      A very fetching coat on Cameron.

  • Rodger T

    Here is how you deal with the anti-asset sales muppets,

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7ce_1368337805

    LoL, all 7 of them quite a turnout, looks like a mandate. God knows ,they look like they need one.

    • Secret Scrote

      No excuse for abusing a stranger like that just because you disagree with them. That guy gives fuckwits a bad name.

      • Bad__Cat

        I thought it was quite succinct and descriptive.

        • Secret Scrote

          You think yelling “slut” at someone is ok?

    • Pissedoffyouth

      “Shut up you grape looking slut”

      • Whanga_Cynic

        Quote of the week for me

      • Patrick

        On the money – get that man a beer.

      • Justsayn

        If you sold off 49% of her you’d still have more than the average punter.

    • spollyike

      Wangavegas, classic!

  • while i dont have a problem with partial privatization of state owned assets i do however feel that the government ought not do anything with air newzealand. while i know that nothing would change i do feel that it would be political suicide. it really would tug at the heartstrings of the general voter.

    • johnbronkhorst

      If labour, in early 2000’s, had allowed Singapore Airlines to buy more stock (to the tune of a couple of hundred million) we wouldn’t have had to bail it out to the tune of a billion. This coupled with the stupid toll rail buy out would have meant we probably would NOT have gone into recession! Such is size of labour’s stupidity!!

    • Gazzaw

      Nigel, you can buy Air NZ shares as of now on the NZX for $1.52 should you so wish. Theoretically this should be the least problematic of any of the sales but I know where you are coming from. Air NZ, just like MRP is a superbly managed company and that is where its strengths lie and that is why it must be further privatised. The dimwits in our midst deeply resent the bonus system that is required to both attract and retain top management and the MSM all too ready to take up the cudgels as well. As a result the day is not far off when SOE execs will be kissing goodbye to market-driven salary packages and they will walk. Successful airlines are run by superb CEOs – the reason why Air NZ has been so successful in these lean times is largely due to the recently departed Rob Fyfe. Air NZ run as a gummint department would sink into a massive loss-making mediocrity.

      • Mediaan

        Are you serious? The manners of the staff have improved, that’s good (somebody must have explained to them that a plane is different from a gulag) but the promotions, graphics and in-flight instruction sequences are always Deep Cringe material.

        They find, for presenter, some hare-brained scatty woman with a silly voice, plus the most juvenile untalented script-writer available in the roster of their friends and relatives’ children, plus a theme based on one of the most buffoon-like aspects of New Zealand culture, pour in some money and let them loose on the safety video, for instance.

        I think passengers with a New Zealand passport should be offered a veil and a hat saying, “Yes, I’m local but this is not my fault”, to screen their shamed faces before foreign visitors.

        And, while Ralph Norris knew a lot about business and management, where did you get the idea that Fyfe or any of the others does?

  • PlanetOrphan
    • Pissedoffyouth

      yeah I’m not taking that link seriously at all

      • PlanetOrphan

        Y’s that Bud ?

        • Pissedoffyouth

          I’m not sure but I never take sites like that seriously, kind of remind me of 911 truth websites

          • PlanetOrphan

            Fair enough, just thought the graphs were quite interesting.

          • Pissedoffyouth

            I decided to take a look anyway and you’re right – very interesting. Especially the one about hours worked dropping, I would have thought with people having smartphones and email 24/7 the hours worked would be much longer

          • PlanetOrphan

            On par with NZ according to this link …
            http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=ANHRS

            Interesting to see Greece runs a lot higher…

    • johnbronkhorst

      If you analyse the graphs president by president…you notice all the good or flat numbers under Republican and all the bad under Democrat…interesting eh?

      • PlanetOrphan

        I don’t really follow American presidents that closely,

        but fair enough I guess, those graphs tell me the American economy has stalled or declined since ’06.

    • trisha

      thanks for the http://theeconomiccollapseblog…link.
      we read the comments and there was some intelligent real talk going on.
      very educational.
      America trying to be top dog …..while broke.
      oh and making china rich?

    • Mediaan

      I looked at those two links. What on earth is your point?

      • PlanetOrphan

        The sanctions against Iran are killing their local economy.

  • johnbronkhorst

    Turned on to Parliament TV, in time to hear grant Robertson talking about the increase in petrol tax (strange [as an aside] to hear labour/greens arguing against taxes).
    He said the 3 cents per litre rise in petrol amounted to a 6% increase!!! Can someone find out where this idiot gets his petrol for 50c/litre? No wonder we need national standards when politicians can’t do basic maths!! and no wonder labour couldn’t balance the books or tell us how they plan to fund their promises.

  • Rodger T
  • Chad Chambers

    Pete, are you asking what new readers think of this forum? It’s quite a hard place to stomach if you don’t agree with the views of the New Zealand Right. Derisive and in some cases abusive language is the norm and that tone is set right at the top.

    • Pissedoffyouth

      Sorry cupcake, if you think we are “abusive” commentators then go to The Standard and see what they post about Paula Bennett etc

      • Chad Chambers

        So you guys are the equivalent of the standard? You’d claim to be better than that, I’m sure.

        • We have no aim to be “like” or “unlike” any other place. We just strive for an open, mature, robust debate. As I said in my long comment on the matter – if anyone feels particularly hard done by, they need to draw it to a moderator’s attention.

        • Ronnie Chow

          You yourself wrote “Jesus titty fucking Christ” the other day .

          Explain how this forum is a hard place to stomach when your comment is the worst !

          • Chad Chambers

            Was I exasperated from the constant abuse you send my way? Yes, that was it.

      • Right. And we’re just all rainbows and fluffy tails about Jacinda Adern, Catherine Delahunty and Clare Curran?

        There is no doubt that other sites have their problems, but to pretend this blog is somehow above it all isn’t right. I’d like to think we’re working towards it, but at times it still grinds down to a cringe worthy cesspit.

        • Pissedoffyouth

          I guess its the difference between excessive moderation vs giving people freedom to say what’s on their mind.

          I’m not denying that we can be pretty rude but we don’t go and celebrate death of enemies and people who do tend to be dealt with ridicule – pretty self moderating normally except for the odd gay marriage debate

    • Lion_ess

      Pop over the the New Zealand Conservative and have a circle jerk over there if the WO language offends you.

    • spollyike

      Fuck off.

      • There was no need for that. It is especially pointless and against the wishes of the blog owner in view of the question being asked. Lift your game please. The mod team led by Cam especially want people with differing views to come here and be treated with some degree of respect. BY all means tell them they’re wrong, but personal abuse is one of the few things that will trigger a ban.

        • spollyike

          Apologies, i was actually using the phrase sarcastically for laughs, i don’t have anything against Chad, guess i should have added a wink;)

    • Right, following on from that moderator note to spollyike…

      Chad, I wasn’t inviting debate, but it is a topic I welcome.

      The rules are simple: no personal abuse. Now, I can’t possibly be consistent when I enforce it. Like rugby, it’s often the retaliation that gets picked up on. I also take into account whether it is a brief outburst or part of a sustained barrage. In addition, I take the people into account. If they are both normally front-footing their communications, I tend to leave more elbow room than when one well behaved person gets shat on from a great height by another.

      You made a big splash wince your arrival. You got into people’s faces. I’m absolutely fine with that. Just play the ball, not the man. But here’s something you can’t expect: you can’t be in people’s faces and then be thin skinned. Not saying you are, but you have to at least get as good as you give without getting precious about it.

      The mod team can’t be everywhere at once. If you feel you are being targeted by someone, or something has gone totally over the top, and you’d like a moderator to have a look at it – don’t assume we’ve seen it and lack of action is therefore silent approval. Let us know so we can have a look at it.

      WOBH does try to run a commenting community where other views are invited. We do not want this to be an echo chamber, and I for one will ban anyone that actively gets in the way of this. Certain people are no longer able to comment here because they didn’t get the “feel” of what was acceptable, and what wasn’t. Frequently the “MO” of the offender includes that in their view, they are more valuable or important to this community due to their participation in it. They think they have protection because of it. People like that have found out that they were wrong. Nobody here is important enough to be able to act in a derogatory way towards others in a sustained manner, and expect to continue to contribute here.

      NOTICE TO “right” commenters: If you think you are doing the right thing by being rude to people with “left/green/other” views, then you are wrong. It is all about manners, it is about debate and it is about respect. If you go over the top, no matter how your thinking aligns with the blog personally, you will find yourself out in the cold.

      People often mention that Cam, and the blog community are excessively mean to people in the media and in politics. The difference here is that these are “players”. We don’t pick on people that aren’t “in the game”. As commenters, you can make yourself a player if you go for broke. Which brings me back to the beginning Chad. If you stick to the topics and leave the people out of it, then you’ll fit in just fine. (Any problems, see the management)

      • GregM

        Well said Pete. I got a bit shitty the other day when Greg Presland, aka Mickysavage commented on the Aaron Gilmore thread.

        http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/05/sick-of-aaron-gilmore-how-do-you-think-he-is-feeling/

        Some of the responses he got were the sort of shit one would expect from the dickheads at the standard, not here.

        • Had I seen axeman’s comment at the time, I would have reacted to it. That is a perfect example of how people think that being a ‘rightie’ here protects them because they are beating up on a ‘leftie’. Good manners doesn’t come into being on a political spectrum.

          • axeman

            “Had I seen axeman’s comment at the time …..”

            Actually Pete that comment was a copy from a post Mr Slater did a couple of years ago on mickeysavage. Offensive word for word.

            Obviously he has no time for gweg pwesland either

          • GregM

            Disqus is playing up (again), this may be a a duplicate.
            Axeman, I wasn’t having a go at you, your post was well after my comment. GP gives me the shits as well, but at least he came and offered his opinion, and I respect that.
            Cheers, G.

          • I was aware of it as I wrote the comment. The fact Slater wrote it still isn’t a good enough reason to drag it up and throw it into another human being’s face today.

            It is all too easy to think of people in 2 dimensions in places like this. Would you say it to their face? Most of us, if we’re honest with ourselves, wouldn’t. The other person may hold political views that we find insane, but they are still living, breathing human beings with a mum, perhaps children, and are also battling a spiraling rates bill, have health problems, or recently lost a close one.

            The “would I say this to someone’s face” is a good test. I don’t think Presland deserves to be treated like that. It is personal, and it is nasty. It was when it was written by Cam Slater, and it continues to be so today. Cam might very well have said it to his face then, and may still do so today – who knows?. But if you wouldn’t, then don’t.

            (for the record, not my downvote)

          • axeman

            OK then. Noticeable that. ratesarerevolting has the same ongoing sentiments over Len Brown

          • Upticks aren’t an indicator of longevity here. Ask redbaiter.

            The rule is simple. No personal attacks to other commenters. And Len isn’t a commenter here.

      • Chad Chambers

        Thanks Petal. Very clear explanation of what is expected and it looks like the mod team has a good idea about what they want this site to be.

        Pete highlighted it and I’m sure it’s well known that the Slater vs Gilmore incident brought a lot more traffic here. Probably a good time to remind people (including me) what is required.

        I don’t really set out to get in people faces but it was a bit of a shock reading the tone of the contributions toward some of our politicians and their policies. I will get used to that but I probably did stamp my feet a little in order to get heard.

        Cheers.

      • Mediaan

        I just hate your views here, Pete. This is what we all suffered under bloody Helen Clark. She headed a Pretty Words Please Everybody administration. It covered some very vile happenings.

        There are things in this world that make people swear and spit. Up until recently, WO was one of the very few places they could. I have thought that was wonderful.

        I fear you are going to overlay it with a thick catholic-like focus on wrappings. (They have to talk pretty and spring to attack un-pretty because they run a thug empire that needs distractions and needs ways to change the subject and blame people for “manners”.)

        It’s silly to object to “fuck off”.

        • The “fuck off” in question was to tell a left leaning commenter not to come here and contribute. That, is what I am trying to stop. Commenters who think they can manipulate some other commenter from not showing up here by being offensive is something I do have a problem with.

          Fuck of as part of expression won’t be under the gun.

          I’m being very clear and consistent. When it is directed at the person, I like to see it gone. If it is directed at the argument, then it’s all in play.

  • grumpy
  • Ronnie Chow

    Vice TV video on Afghanistan . The reality…..

    http://www.vice.com/video

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